Will we be any better off with Kay Ivey?

[alexava 6,973]

http://www.alreporter.com/2017/04/10/sources-bentley-negotiating-resignation/

[PUB78 1,354]

Probably will be more ethical. Not overly confident about her leadership skills. Perhaps she will  be a good caretaker until the next governor takes office.

[TitanTiger 20,471]

I can't see her being any worse.

[autigeremt 6,570]

We'll see. LOL

[icanthearyou 4,462]

"the sides had not yet reached an agreeable deal that would halt not only the impeachment process but also weigh favorably for the governor in the ongoing criminal investigations by state and federal officials."

 

This is absurd.  If he has committed a crime, he should not receive preferential treatment.  He should be held to a higher standard and, punished to the fullest extent of the law. Violating the public trust, corruption needs to be taken more seriously.  If not, the corruption will continue regardless of which party holds power.  Power corrupts.  There have to be consequences.  There should be zero tolerance.

[TitanTiger 20,471]

25 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

"the sides had not yet reached an agreeable deal that would halt not only the impeachment process but also weigh favorably for the governor in the ongoing criminal investigations by state and federal officials."

 

This is absurd.  If he has committed a crime, he should not receive preferential treatment.  He should be held to a higher standard and, punished to the fullest extent of the law. Violating the public trust, corruption needs to be taken more seriously.  If not, the corruption will continue regardless of which party holds power.  Power corrupts.  There have to be consequences.  There should be zero tolerance.

I agree.  But I can also see just getting him out of office without a protracted legal battle as a win for the state and cheaper in the long run.

[icanthearyou 4,462]

6 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

I agree.  But I can also see just getting him out of office without a protracted legal battle as a win for the state and cheaper in the long run.

Considering the real costs of corruption and, the fact that it will likely continue without strong condemnation, I doubt that.  I'm not sure you can put a price tag on preserving, ensuring the integrity of government.

[TitanTiger 20,471]

2 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

Considering the real costs of corruption and, the fact that it will likely continue without strong condemnation, I doubt that.  I'm not sure you can put a price tag on preserving, ensuring the integrity of government.

I can't necessarily disagree.

[icanthearyou 4,462]

1 minute ago, TitanTiger said:

I can't necessarily disagree.

I think if you start putting some of these people in jail, in general population, treat them like the criminals they are, corruption will not end but, it certainly will not be so blatant and common.

[TitanTiger 20,471]

1 minute ago, icanthearyou said:

I think if you start putting some of these people in jail, in general population, treat them like the criminals they are, corruption will not end but, it certainly will not be so blatant and common.

I think it's a parallel to what you see in the corporate would.  CEO comes in, performs horribly and runs company into the ground.  Hundreds or thousands of mid level and lower salaried people lose their jobs.  CEO is forced out with a golden parachute of tens of millions of dollars to leave.  The rich and powerful always manage to create a soft landing for their failures.  The regular folks take it right up the arse for any mistake.

[icanthearyou 4,462]

Just now, TitanTiger said:

I think it's a parallel to what you see in the corporate would.  CEO comes in, performs horribly and runs company into the ground.  Hundreds or thousands of mid level and lower salaried people lose their jobs.  CEO is forced out with a golden parachute of tens of millions of dollars to leave.  The rich and powerful always manage to create a soft landing for their failures.  The regular folks take it right up the arse for any mistake.

Yes and, society is most often directed from the top, down.  IMHO, our problems are not a reflection of ideological failures.  Most of our problems are a result of fundamental ethical failures.  This is what I was referring to by the real costs of corruption.  Everyone becomes cynical and, begins to rationalize their way around ethical norms.  Lying, cheating, stealing become "shrewd business practice".  We begin to embrace the "winning at all costs", the "if you aint cheatin, you aint trying", "excuses are for losers", narratives.  We lose respect for ourselves, each other, ethical standards, rules, laws, values, decency, morality.  

The duality conflates and confuses.  Nationalism and patriotism become a joke.  The concepts and symbols become more associated with the "nuts".  They are replaced by an unconditional pursuit of self-interest.  

We are being led to the gates of hell.  Not because of a political party or ideology but because, we are allowing party/ideology to override our fundamental ethical beliefs, our basic values.  We are too blind to see that those who proclaim morality and values the loudest should be held to the highest of standards.  If not, they become the most destructive members of society.

Exhibit A:  Trump versus Clinton

[alexava 6,973]

Don Sigelman was not even accused of doing near the scandal these folks get away with regularly. Putting big Luther in the senate was the most scandalous move in history. 

[icanthearyou 4,462]

6 minutes ago, alexava said:

Don Sigelman was not even accused of doing near the scandal these folks get away with regularly. Putting big Luther in the senate was the most scandalous move in history. 

Should the appointment be recalled?

[alexava 6,973]

Good question 

[icanthearyou 4,462]

1 minute ago, alexava said:

Good question 

And no good answer.  You didn't fall for it!

[AUloggerhead 2,225]

Well, Ivey is an AU grad -- there's that.  Bentley was your typical turd. 

[gr82be 14,403]

On 4/10/2017 at 9:28 AM, icanthearyou said:

I think if you start putting some of these people in jail, in general population, treat them like the criminals they are, corruption will not end but, it certainly will not be so blatant and common.

Doubt that would help because the problem is the politicians like this have an ego that makes them think they are going to get away with what they are doing. They think they are smarter than everyone else. When you lose your conscience about something then you can rationalize what you want to do. I agree with your point about putting them with general jail population, I just don't think it will deter someone who has no clear-cut line drawn between right and wrong. 

[Guest WarEagleSteve]

Honestly, I think until we fix the structural and cultural problems inherent in the state's political system, it doesn't matter who's elected. The Alabama state government is broken as a fundamental system. Because so much power is concentrated in the hands of the state government, there is tremendous incentive to abuse that power. Add to that the fact that we don't really punish our public officials for malfeasance, at least not in any meaningful way, and you have a recipe for systemic corruption inherently baked in. 

[Strychnine 1,802]

On 4/10/2017 at 10:28 AM, icanthearyou said:

I think if you start putting some of these people in jail, in general population, treat them like the criminals they are, corruption will not end but, it certainly will not be so blatant and common.

 

I suspect it would also lead to a meaningful prison reform effort.

[alexava 6,973]

Wasn't Bentley trying to get 900 million for more prisons?

 

[augolf1716 21,096]

8 hours ago, WarEagleSteve said:

Honestly, I think until we fix the structural and cultural problems inherent in the state's political system, it doesn't matter who's elected. The Alabama state government is broken as a fundamental system. Because so much power is concentrated in the hands of the state government, there is tremendous incentive to abuse that power. Add to that the fact that we don't really punish our public officials for malfeasance, at least not in any meaningful way, and you have a recipe for systemic corruption inherently baked in. 

Its been that way for 60 years La. and Illinos are as clean as can be compared to Al

[alexava 6,973]

1 hour ago, augolf1716 said:

Its been that way for 60 years La. and Illinos are as clean as can be compared to Al

Ouch

[alexava 6,973]

I watched the tv interview of Heather Hannah. She is a very pretty lady. But she is just way too damn nice. Too forgiving to even be real. I couldn't even finish watching the interview. 

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

Well this is a good start.  She's moving the Senate election up to this year for Strange's seat.

http://www.al.com/news/birmingham/index.ssf/2017/04/alabama_gov_kay_ivey_moves_us.html#incart_2box

[alexava 6,973]

I didn't read the whole article Brad but last week she projected moving the election up wold cost like 15 million $?