Tight Ends and HBs

[corchjay 5,311]

26 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

There goes Corch, stirring up controversy again. SMH

Man, if A-Day was any indication, that McClain is a live one. I know the player comparisons are lazy and usually inaccurate, but I feel like a very underappreciated component to our 2009 and 2010 offenses was Terrell Zachery. 650+ yards from scrimmage in both of those seasons. We've had a couple big, strong WRs since him, but I don't think we've had any who played quite as big and strong as he did. Maybe Sammie. But TZach was such a complete receiver. He could catch and run, was deadly on reverses and sweeps, hell of a blocker... gimme some more of that, please.

Sorry. Back to TEs and HBs...

Guys would just fall off of TZach when trying to tackle him.  Side note, Jalen Hurts reminds of TZach as a runner

[Rednilla 5,383]

20 hours ago, AUpreacherman22 said:

I like the idea of playing more versatile guys to keep defenses guessing and to minimize subbing.  So, as of right now, I am leaning heavily towards Cox being our workhorse at the HB/TE position. 

This times 1,000. I LOVE the proper use of the Wildcat, but proper use means it's a player already on the field in another position, where the QB lines up as an outside receiver (like Darren McFadden at Arkansas when Malzahn first implemented the formation). That's really about the only way to gain an advantage, because the defense can't substitute to counter the formation (as they can when bringing in the Wildcat QB from the sideline). Personally, I'd love to see Jason Smith get on the field enough that he can be the Wildcat QB, seeing as he does have experience at the position and can throw at least a little bit, to keep the defense honest.

[Win4AU 4,052]

Until Auburn has a dependable TE I'd look for a lot of Cox in the backfield.  He's Becoming a Prosch like blocker and I'd expect to see him catch passes out of the backfield.  

[bigbird 60,440]

5 minutes ago, Win4AU said:

He's Becoming a Prosch like blocker

JMO, but I believe he has a ways to go before he reaches that level. 

Jake Slaughter, Brandon Johnson, Jay Prosch were all masters at fullback

[bigbird 60,440]

What I have noticed from both our TE and HB is that they seem to try for the knock out block. In doing so the seem to get overextended and off balance which leads to an ineffective and sometimes missed block.  Many times, all that is needed is to get in the way of the defender for a split second. Simple concept...bad execution

[alexava 6,973]

5 minutes ago, bigbird said:

What I have noticed from both our TE and HB is that they seem to try for the knock out block. In doing so the seem to get overextended and off balance which leads to an ineffective and sometimes missed block.  Many times, all that is needed is to get in the way of the defender for a split second. Simple concept...bad execution

Exactly. Prosche was excellent at that. People assume he was a bulldozer but more often he chipped a shoulder or rattled a backer off balance and moved to the next level. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

16 hours ago, Rednilla said:

This times 1,000. I LOVE the proper use of the Wildcat, but proper use means it's a player already on the field in another position, where the QB lines up as an outside receiver (like Darren McFadden at Arkansas when Malzahn first implemented the formation). That's really about the only way to gain an advantage, because the defense can't substitute to counter the formation (as they can when bringing in the Wildcat QB from the sideline). Personally, I'd love to see Jason Smith get on the field enough that he can be the Wildcat QB, seeing as he does have experience at the position and can throw at least a little bit, to keep the defense honest.

Don't be surprised to see KJ running a lot more wildcat this season. Referencing Kalen Ballage again at ASU last year: roughly 10 carries a game, 44 catches, right at 1,000 yards from scrimmage, 15 TDs, lots of WC snaps in the red zone. As much as people complain about it, KJ was really effective doing the same thing last year. He is as good of a pass catcher as most of our WRs. He might not be as strong as some would like or as fast as others would like, but he is the do-everything guy in this offense, and that's why Gus and Horton compared him to McFadden coming in. He's obviously not the prototype, freak RB that McFadden was, but the versatility is definitely there. 

I'm a big Jason Smith advocate, too, but I don't see them suddenly trusting him more in that spot than KJ, especially since KJ has already done so much of what one of CCL's biggest playmakers at ASU did last year. I absolutely see a role for JS as a deep threat and/or sweep guy. He was our primary guy for the former and has done as much of the latter as anyone on the team other than Stove. 

[Win4AU 4,052]

T Zachary had those pump and go route in 2009 that was open every time. I have not seen Auburn utilize it since.  Wonder why?  

[corchjay 5,311]

35 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Don't be surprised to see KJ running a lot more wildcat this season. Referencing Kalen Ballage again at ASU last year: roughly 10 carries a game, 44 catches, right at 1,000 yards from scrimmage, 15 TDs, lots of WC snaps in the red zone. As much as people complain about it, KJ was really effective doing the same thing last year. He is as good of a pass catcher as most of our WRs. He might not be as strong as some would like or as fast as others would like, but he is the do-everything guy in this offense, and that's why Gus and Horton compared him to McFadden coming in. He's obviously not the prototype, freak RB that McFadden was, but the versatility is definitely there. 

I'm a big Jason Smith advocate, too, but I don't see them suddenly trusting him more in that spot than KJ, especially since KJ has already done so much of what one of CCL's biggest playmakers at ASU did last year. I absolutely see a role for JS as a deep threat and/or sweep guy. He was our primary guy for the former and has done as much of the latter as anyone on the team other than Stove. 

ASU had many QB issues last year.  So that package might have been out of need and not out of want.  I don't expect a ton of wildcat from CCL going forward.  We will run it enough so that teams have to prepare for it.  We will get to a QB discussion, WR, RB and so on.  I'm trying to do one a day to mix it up a little.

[McLoofus 35,182]

45 minutes ago, corchjay said:

ASU had many QB issues last year.  So that package might have been out of need and not out of want.  I don't expect a ton of wildcat from CCL going forward.  We will run it enough so that teams have to prepare for it.  We will get to a QB discussion, WR, RB and so on.  I'm trying to do one a day to mix it up a little.

Excellent point, and possibly why we ran as much of it last year as we did. Not that Gushlee effectively called plays in the RZ in general. That said, though, it was effective for us. 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

2 hours ago, McLoofus said:

I'm a big Jason Smith advocate, too, but I don't see them suddenly trusting him more in that spot than KJ, especially since KJ has already done so much of what one of CCL's biggest playmakers at ASU did last year.

Considering in an interview about Malik, Smith indicated that his QB ship had sailed, I think we can forget about him ever taking a snap.

"Malik, he's athletic. He's real athletic. I can see some flashes of me back in the day. You know, that's long gone."

[McLoofus 35,182]

23 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

Considering in an interview about Malik, Smith indicated that his QB ship had sailed, I think we can forget about him ever taking a snap.

"Malik, he's athletic. He's real athletic. I can see some flashes of me back in the day. You know, that's long gone."

 Still can't help but wonder how it would have gone down if Jason had come a year later. He might've been a better John Franklin. 

[AUld fAUx@ 2,584]

13 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

 Still can't help but wonder how it would have gone down if Jason had come a year later. He might've been a better John Franklin. 

and Mr. Franklin might have been a more practiced receiver by now?

[McLoofus 35,182]

6 minutes ago, AUinTLoosa said:

and Mr. Franklin might have been a more practiced receiver by now?

He probably would've been a more productive football player in 2016, at a different position and/or a different school. 

[DAG 33,957]

20 hours ago, Rednilla said:

This times 1,000. I LOVE the proper use of the Wildcat, but proper use means it's a player already on the field in another position, where the QB lines up as an outside receiver (like Darren McFadden at Arkansas when Malzahn first implemented the formation). That's really about the only way to gain an advantage, because the defense can't substitute to counter the formation (as they can when bringing in the Wildcat QB from the sideline). Personally, I'd love to see Jason Smith get on the field enough that he can be the Wildcat QB, seeing as he does have experience at the position and can throw at least a little bit, to keep the defense honest.

If JasonSmith was good enough to be a wildcat QB, they would've placed him there by now and they sure as heck wouldn't have recruited JF3 last year to play QB.

[AUld fAUx@ 2,584]

10 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

He probably would've been a more productive football player in 2016, at a different position and/or a different school. 

but for that pesky QB-depth thing.

[DAG 33,957]

On a side note , JF3 and JS they really need to polish up there football craft . They are simply speedsters right now . In fact , I consider their skill set to be the same as a freakishly tall person . It can't be taught , but it doesn't necessarily mean a whole lot if it is not transitioning into quality play . I hope iggy absolutely is working on his craft hardcore and doesn't fall into this category . Sure it will get your foot in the door but doesn't always mean you will stay in the office . That is why I always err to caution when we recruit these "athletes." There is a very thin line between speedster and true athlete . NM was a prototype athlete as he could be impactful at QB and also in the secondary need be.

[oracle79 3,569]

I'd be ecstatic if Auburn never ran the wildcat formation again.  I think it's a formation born of desperation and lack of confidence in your regular offense.

Now maybe if you break it out once a year for that time when you got to have a 2 point conversion and you've seen a major flaw in the other team's defense and it's going to work for sure, then maybe do that.  But as a staple of your red zone offense?  Nah.

[DAG 33,957]

1 minute ago, oracle79 said:

I'd be ecstatic if Auburn never ran the wildcat formation again.  I think it's a formation born of desperation and lack of confidence in your regular offense.

Now maybe if you break it out once a year for that time when you got to have a 2 point conversion and you've seen a major flaw in the other team's defense and it's going to work for sure, then maybe do that.  But as a staple of your red zone offense?  Nah.

I agree. However , I will say I think the wildcat can be very beneficial if you have a TRUE athlete . Not someone who is just a speedster . Darren McFadden fit that bill as he was excellent running between the tackles and adequate passing. There aren't many of those players suiting up.

[Win4AU 4,052]

this is the pump and go I mentioned.  Ran it a couple times.  With a lot more passes out of the backfield this could be a good change up.  Use either Eli's speed or NCM or KDs size and boom.

[corchjay 5,311]

2 minutes ago, DAG said:

I agree. However , I will say I think the wildcat can be very beneficial if you have a TRUE athlete . Not someone who is just a speedster . Darren McFadden fit that bill as he was excellent running between the tackles and adequate passing. There aren't many of those players suiting up.

Gatewood? Have no clue how he runs between the tackles

[DAG 33,957]

Just now, corchjay said:

Gatewood? Have no clue how he runs between the tackles

I think Gatewood potentially could fall under the realm of a true athlete . I feel like I could be impactful at QB, but even more impactful at a position like TE. 

[corchjay 5,311]

1 minute ago, DAG said:

I think Gatewood potentially could fall under the realm of a true athlete . I feel like I could be impactful at QB, but even more impactful at a position like TE. 

I'm probably in the minority but I'm glad Joey has played other positions so he's a "hardened" player.  If JJ6 would have had that run you over not afraid of contact guy I think he would have been a better QB

[DAG 33,957]

7 minutes ago, corchjay said:

I'm probably in the minority but I'm glad Joey has played other positions so he's a "hardened" player.  If JJ6 would have had that run you over not afraid of contact guy I think he would have been a better QB

I agree . I think Joey has shown that he is a physical player which will be a huge advantage at the next level. I just question if he would be a better QB than say someone like Bo Nix? I feel like he definitely could make a mark at QB, I just don't believe he would be better than someone who has really mastered their craft at it. Of course he could prove me wrong this year since he is supposedly solely only player QB at his school.

[oracle79 3,569]

17 minutes ago, DAG said:

I agree. However , I will say I think the wildcat can be very beneficial if you have a TRUE athlete . Not someone who is just a speedster . Darren McFadden fit that bill as he was excellent running between the tackles and adequate passing. There aren't many of those players suiting up.

Well yeah.  Pretty much every play with Cam at QB was essentially wildcat (not really formation wise, but you know what I mean).  But, he could run power, inside zone, outside zone, and throw.  But, that's once a generation.