14 years with a draft pick

[GwillMac6 20,666]

3 minutes ago, Gowebb11 said:

It's a great notion and I too want Auburn represented by class individuals in all things. I truly believe the Auburn Creed is a great representation of what we are all about. But here's the way it works. Bama puts the Bear on a pedestal, but we remember him as a corrupt drunk. We put Pat Dye on a pedestal, but UGA fans only remember him as a cheater who got us on probation. Texas A&M speak of Jackie Sherrill as a hard nosed football coaching legend, while Texas fans remember him as a massive cheater and a jerk. We can easily explain away Cam Gate and declare Chizik a fine family man. Most of the rest of the nation will always believe we bought a national championship and he is a slimy coach who orchestrated it. College football is generally a dirty business and we are all a bit hypocritical when it comes to judging the teams and coaches who are beating us. The point is, we generally see our guy in a little better light than others and vice versa  

Right now, I'm proud of all our major sport coaches and believe we have a great combination of talent and character amongst them. 

dang well said. perfectly put.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

6 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

I disagree that there are any philosophical aspects to Gus's offense that hamper his players' development. Teams zone block in the NFL. Teams line up in shotgun in the NFL. Running hurry up doesn't stunt a player's growth. It's not his "system" that is failing. And that's why I don't separate the conversations, Lion.

And, again, his offense has nothing to do with whether or not our defensive players get drafted.

 

We didn't run routes like the NFL... we didn't emphasize check downs like the NFL... we didn't allow for route adjustment like in the NFL... our playbook was apparently far less complex in terminology than the NFL (per several scout comments). The only thing in our offense that really functioned like the NFL was our power running... which is where our offensive draft picks come from (OL and backs).  I also still argue that Gus was too busy drilling them on misdirection, speed and following the script for each play and not focusing on things that develop football IQ and the ability to make plays happen because of skill.

I agree that his offense has no bearing on defensive development... the revolving door for our defensive staff, however...

[lionheartkc 6,150]

16 minutes ago, Gowebb11 said:

Right now, I'm proud of all our major sport coaches and believe we have a great combination of talent and character amongst them. 

While I get your point, I don't put Dye on a pedestal. I honestly wish he'd stick to fishing and I don't like him as a face of Auburn... and not because of the Ramsey mess, but because he's fully entrenched in the good ole boy network that is holding Auburn back. 

Here's the thing, yes, every program has some beef with their rivals coach, but let's face it, Saban doesn't even try to hide how horrible he is. If Auburn allowed someone who acted like that to be the public face of the University, I'd be heartbroken. Urban at least keeps the crap he pulls in the shadows, but don't forget, when the going got tough at Florida he suddenly had health problems that required him to quit football... you know... until his dream job popped up a year later.

Fortunately, I think Auburn showed with Galloway, all be it with all the grace of a hippo on roller skates, that they won't tolerate those kinds of personalities in public rolls at the University.

16 minutes ago, Gowebb11 said:

Right now, I'm proud of all our major sport coaches and believe we have a great combination of talent and character amongst them. 

I'm totally with you.

[DAG 33,976]

5 hours ago, lionheartkc said:

I know... you've said... I and many other's disagree.  Character matters.

Yes and many people agree with me. You don't let the top two best coaches in college football walk away. To be frank, a lot of people hate Saban because he is a winner and he did it his own way. Same thing UM. Because if it was all about character , we wouldn't be recruiting questionable character guys . Can Newton character was very questionable though out his collegiate career, yet I haven't heard anyone say character matters with him.

[DAG 33,976]

4 hours ago, lionheartkc said:

What has me intrigued is why, when I point out that Gus us not coaching with a focus toward the NFL and say nothing about how good or bad his style is, you and DAG, and Gwill and Loof (this one really surprises me), decide that this discussion suddenly needs to be yet another referendum on Gus's ability to coach.

Can we let the dead horse lie and maybe one of you actually speak to what I have said which is that what our coaches are trying to achieve (or at least what they were trying to achieve pre Chip) on the field does not lend itself well to preparing players for the NFL.

You are letting your emotions get the better of you . I never onced uttered anything about Gus or the state of our program. I simply disagreed about not wanting UM or Nick Saban. 

[keesler 5,924]

2 hours ago, DAG said:

You are letting your emotions get the better of you . I never onced uttered anything about Gus or the state of our program. I simply disagreed about not wanting UM or Nick Saban. 

You have a keen ability to deal with the sensitivities and emotions of others on this forum.  I commend you DAG,  it's a virtue I haven't mastered as yet.  

 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

3 hours ago, DAG said:

 Can Newtons character was very questionable though out his collegiate career, yet I haven't heard anyone say character matters with him.

Really? The Cam Newton who spent all of his down time at Auburn working with kids? The same Cam who was said to be a model citizen at Juco? Cam made one mistake and the media and a few butt hurt coaches used that and an attempt by another school's booster to buy him as ammo to attack him. If you believe the crap that people with poor track records say about someone over the things you actually see them do, then you should really reconsider all of your opinions about anyone.

[DAG 33,976]

9 hours ago, lionheartkc said:

Really? The Cam Newton who spent all of his down time at Auburn working with kids? The same Cam who was said to be a model citizen at Juco? Cam made one mistake and the media and a few butt hurt coaches used that and an attempt by another school's booster to buy him as ammo to attack him. If you believe the crap that people with poor track records say about someone over the things you actually see them do, then you should really reconsider all of your opinions about anyone.

 

 

He made a lot more than one mistake guy. He came close to possibly being expelled from U of F before he decided to get the heck out of there. Sure, he is doing great now, but the main point is you are calling out NS and UM when we have taken in shady characters all the freaking time. It super hypocritical on your part.  I imagine NS and UM are model citizens outside of football as well. I haven't otherwise to believe they aren't. 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

Just now, DAG said:

He made a lot more than one mistake guy. He came close to possibly being expelled from U of F before he decided to get the heck out of there. Sure, he is doing great now, but the main point is you are calling out NS and UM when we have taken in shady characters all the freaking time. It super hypocritical on your part.  I imagine NS and UM are model citizens outside of football as well. 

Yea... totally hypocritical to call out a couple of guys with a continuing history of everything ranging from shady to down right evil actions when we have allowed football players on our team who have had issues in their past and have either been model citizens at Auburn or have been sent packing.  I totally see the correlation. 

[DAG 33,976]

10 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

Yea... totally hypocritical to call out a couple of guys with a continuing history of everything ranging from shady to down right evil actions when we have allowed football players on our team who have had issues in their past and have either been model citizens at Auburn or have been sent packing.  I totally see the correlation. 

 

 

Evil actions? Cite them. Stealing from someone is a CRIME. I don't care how good of a football player you are.  I just thought it was interesting that you put me in a sphere and then lecture me on how character matters, yet you are perfectly fine accepting players who have very questionable pasts. So, where is the line?

I am happy CN found success and got a second, maybe third chance, but to be okay with one thing and then verbalize how you wouldn't want someone else based on their character is definitely hypocritical. Now, obviously every action is different, but stealing is up there for me. 

Quite frankly, these guys got a second chance because they are FANTASTIC athletes. I get it. Do you think CN would've been pursued by AU if he was a two-star athlete? I don't get this moral code like we are better than others.

[DAG 33,976]

11 hours ago, keesler said:

You have a keen ability to deal with the sensitivities and emotions of others on this forum.  I commend you DAG,  it's a virtue I haven't mastered as yet.  

 

 

 

Yikes, you might want to rephrase that or you will get put on the naughty list for being nice to me haha

[lionheartkc 6,150]

2 minutes ago, DAG said:

Evil actions? Cite them. Stealing from someone is a CRIME. I don't care how good of a football player you are.  I just thought it was interesting that you put me in a sphere and then lecture me on how character matters, yet you are perfectly fine accepting players who have very questionable pasts. So, where is the line?

I am happy CN found success and got a second, maybe third chance, but to be okay with one thing and then verbalize how you wouldn't want someone else based on their character is definitely hypocritical. Now, obviously every action is different, but stealing is up there for me. 

I already cited one... stepping over a player who is convulsing on the floor in order to get to your office is about as evil as it comes without actually attacking someone. It shows zero concern for the well being of others. And who stole from someone? Do you get all of your information from the sports media? Cam purchased a stolen laptop... still a crime, but not at the level of actual stealing (usually a misdemeanor). He also faced the consequences of that action and learned from it.

Here's the difference you are searching for DAG. All of the players who you are currently attacking made mistakes... usually relatively minor transgressions in the big scheme of things.. and all of those players were given a second chance with the hope of improving their character, after all, character is learned.  They either changed their ways and became better men for it or continued to show poor character and were shown the door. The fact that Auburn has, since the Chizik era, made an effort to help turn troubled boys into good men speaks well of our staff.  The fact that we have also shown quick action when they or others step out of line (far quicker than most programs), speaks even better.

When you are talking about coaches like Saban and Meyer, you have a history of questionable or worse activity with no hint of remorse, and in Saban's case, the use of his position to attack those who even dare to question anything he does that is wrong. We're taking mistakes vs lifestyles. Dumb, spur of the moment choices vs planned strategies. It's night and day different.  

[McLoofus 35,182]

4 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

We're talking mistakes vs lifestyles. 

We're also talking players vs coaches and children vs men. 

saban's daughter put her roommate in the hospital and tweeted that she wanted to punch Cam Newton in the face. Doesn't make saban a criminal but it doesn't make him father of the year, either. 

[DAG 33,976]

10 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

I already cited one... stepping over a player who is convulsing on the floor in order to get to your office is about as evil as it comes without actually attacking someone. It shows zero concern for the well being of others. And who stole from someone? Do you get all of your information from the sports media? Cam purchased a stolen laptop... still a crime, but not at the level of actual stealing (usually a misdemeanor). He also faced the consequences of that action and learned from it.

Here's the difference you are searching for DAG. All of the players who you are currently attacking made mistakes... usually relatively minor transgressions in the big scheme of things.. and all of those players were given a second chance with the hope of improving their character, after all, character is learned.  They either changed their ways and became better men for it or continued to show poor character and were shown the door. The fact that Auburn has, since the Chizik era, made an effort to help turn troubled boys into good men speaks well of our staff.  The fact that we have also shown quick action when they or others step out of line (far quicker than most programs), speaks even better.

When you are talking about coaches like Saban and Meyer, you have a history of questionable or worse activity with no hint of remorse, and in Saban's case, the use of his position to attack those who even dare to question anything he does that is wrong. We're taking mistakes vs lifestyles. Dumb, spur of the moment choices vs planned strategies. It's night and day different.  

 

 

You didn't cite anything actually. He purchased a stolen laptop?! He KNEW it was stolen. That is why he try to get rid of it. Are you serious, right now? Again, you are letting your emotions get to you. Never attacked a single person. 

[DAG 33,976]

2 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

We're also talking players vs coaches and children vs men. 

saban's daughter put her roommate in the hospital and tweeted that she wanted to punch Cam Newton in the face. Doesn't make saban a criminal but it doesn't make him father of the year, either. 

 

All of these people are grown ass individuals. Now, we are going to blame parents for the decisions of their ADULT children? Doesn't make any sense. 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

1 minute ago, DAG said:

You didn't cite anything actually.

You get a pass because I said it to Gwill in this thread, not you, and maybe you didn't read every comment to every person, but I did speak to Saban's callus treatment of the player convulsing on the floor earlier in this thread.

2 minutes ago, DAG said:

He purchased a stolen laptop?! He KNEW it was stolen. That is why he try to get rid of it. Are you serious, right now?

Yes... still a misdemeanor that he faced the consequences for.

2 minutes ago, DAG said:

Again, you are letting your emotions get to you. Never attacked a single person.

You have actually attacked every single player that Auburn has recruited who did anything wrong before coming to play for us by saying that their mistakes are equal to the way that certain low character coaches act on a day to day basis. 

In any case, my emotions are fine.  I'm trying to have a rational, logical discussion... maybe you're projecting?

[DAG 33,976]

11 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

You get a pass because I said it to Gwill in this thread, not you, and maybe you didn't read every comment to every person, but I did speak to Saban's callus treatment of the player convulsing on the floor earlier in this thread.

Yes... still a misdemeanor that he faced the consequences for.

You have actually attacked every single player that Auburn has recruited who did anything wrong before coming to play for us by saying that their mistakes are equal to the way that certain low character coaches act on a day to day basis. 

In any case, my emotions are fine.  I'm trying to have a rational, logical discussion... maybe you're projecting?

 

 

Kind of how you are projecting that I am attacking AU players? Or that I called CGM out in this thread? That is very irrational.

I am attacking them because I am referencing things of their past? No. I am saying you are hypocritical in your stance of morality. NS has never committed a crime nor has UM. If you are willing to overlook that than I don't want to hear about morality. Your friend McLoofus just projected Saban's daughter's action on him. That is how ridiculous this is, yet CM dad is a freaking pastor.  

 

[ClaytonAU 4,606]

I mean actually agreeing with @DAG a good bit in this little discussion. What have I become? 

[McLoofus 35,182]

Interesting take on things.

Quote

This offseason, the 2017 offense bears some striking resemblances to what Auburn had heading into 2013 — the last time it didn’t have an offensive draft pick.

The 2013 team lost a top receiver from an underwhelming passing attack in Emory Blake, but it had young pieces ready to step up with Sammie Coates, Ricardo Louis, C.J. Uzomah and Quan Bray. It also returned most of its offensive line from the previous year.

Auburn also had a sophomore running back who broke out with a 1,000-yard season in 2012. Tre Mason didn’t have nearly the touches or the SEC-leading success Kamryn Pettway had in 2016. However, he averaged 5.86 yards per carry. That’s the exact number Pettway averaged in 2016.

The 2013 Tigers also benefited from a transfer quarterback who won the starting job — Nick Marshall — and a new coach in charge of the offense. There’s potential for something similar to happen with Stidham and Lindsey, respectively.

https://www.seccountry.com/auburn/auburn-football-offense-nfl-draft-gus-malzahn-jarrett-stidham

[keesler 5,924]

29 minutes ago, DAG said:

Kind of how you are projecting that I am attacking AU players? Or that I called CGM out in this thread? That is very irrational.

I am attacking them because I am referencing things of their past? No. I am saying you are hypocritical in your stance of morality. NS has never committed a crime nor has UM. If you are willing to overlook that than I don't want to hear about morality. Your friend McLoofus just projected Saban's daughter's action on him. That is how ridiculous this is, yet CM dad is a freaking pastor.  

 

The sensitivity and emotions have allowed hypocrisy to take over rational thought.

Nick Saban stepped over a convulsed player over a decade ago, he is evil........Urban Meyer faked a heart attack over 7 yrs ago and quit his job to focus on family, he is low character.  Oh the horrors of these devil coaches.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

13 minutes ago, DAG said:

Kind of how you are projecting that I am attacking AU players? Or that I called CGM out in this thread? That is very irrational.

Ummmm... that's not what projecting means

13 minutes ago, DAG said:

I am attacking them because I am referencing things of their past? No. I am saying you are hypocritical in your stance of morality. NS has never committed a crime nor has UM. If you are willing to overlook that than I don't want to hear about morality. Your friend McLoofus just projected Saban's daughter's action on him. That is how ridiculous this is, yet CM dad is a freaking pastor.

So your entire basis for morality is the American Penal Code? Then, my friend, we are all not worth saving, because I bet there is not one person in here who hasn't run afoul of the law.  After all, traffic violations, parking tickets, heck jaywalking is, in fact, a crime, and I would bet big money that Nick and Urban haven't avoided those moral stumbling blocks. As for other transgressions that reach the condemable heights of buying stolen goods... how would you know what they have done?  They have had longs lives and, yes, they were both even college kids at one point. For all you know both could have spent several nights in jail because of the dumb bravado of their youth... and no one knows what they may or may not have done that hasn't been made public. Did you do full background checks before making that claim?

As for my friend @McLoofus... I agree with him. Children are a product of their parents. Saban is definitely NOT father of the year.

Bottom line and I will move on. Morality is not a measure of how many mistakes one has made, but how one responds to those mistakes. No one is without fault in their lives, but some choose to learn from their transgressions and be a better person. Others wear them like a badge of honor and use them as a source of power over others. I'll leave it to you to determine which of those is displaying true morality.

[McLoofus 35,182]

13 minutes ago, keesler said:

The sensitivity and emotions have allowed hypocrisy to take over rational thought.

It seems more that they've allowed a certain tone to take over one side of what should be a rational conversation, as they typically do. 

[DAG 33,976]

19 minutes ago, keesler said:

The sensitivity and emotions have allowed hypocrisy to take over rational thought.

Nick Saban stepped over a convulsed player over a decade ago, he is evil........Urban Meyer faked a heart attack over 7 yrs ago and quit his job to focus on family, he is low character.  Oh the horrors of these devil coaches.

 

I know right?! He is god awful. Heathen I tell you Heathen!

[DAG 33,976]

26 minutes ago, ClaytonAU said:

I mean actually agreeing with @DAG a good bit in this little discussion. What have I become? 

HAHAHA

[AUld fAUx@ 2,584]

30 minutes ago, DAG said:

HAHAHA

dagnabbit?