Healthy Expectations

[McLoofus 35,182]

1 hour ago, kd4au said:

Not to derail the thread but why do you think this pattern happens?Why can't the new coaches keep things on track and keep winning after having big starts?

If I really thought about it I could probably come up with some circumstances unique to each situation, but it would be great to have leadership capable of anticipating/avoiding some of those circumstances. Sorry... long winded way of saying I'm not sure, but I did want to acknowledge that you asked me a question. @Tiger's and @lionheartkc's guesses are as good as mine. 

Loving the conversation, btw. 

 

[corchjay 5,311]

1 hour ago, McLoofus said:

If I really thought about it I could probably come up with some circumstances unique to each situation, but it would be great to have leadership capable of anticipating/avoiding some of those circumstances. Sorry... long winded way of saying I'm not sure, but I did want to acknowledge that you asked me a question. @Tiger's and @lionheartkc's guesses are as good as mine. 

Loving the conversation, btw. 

 

The pressures to win immediately dictates that a coach has to play his proven experienced players and hope the younger guys catch on.  The first couple of years the coach is in the "honeymoon" phase and can just kind of wing it and see what happens.  They win because we normally have good talent expect when coach Tubs came in.

Also a new regime brings life into a program.  The coaches come in preaching a level playing field for everyone and the 3rd stringers work their tails off to try to be the number 1 guy building quality depth.  After a coach has been around 6-7 years they've heard the same thing for 3 years before its time for them to start that possibly they don't put the work in that they should causing that player you looked to be a starter as a junior not buying in anymore and having to play a freshman.

I have always tried to be upfront and honest with my players, I've told him where they land on the depth chart, if I truly think they have a chance to unseat the starter, and what role I need them for in their current situation.  It's different in high school because they just can't up and leave school like a college student can but I see no reason why it can't work at that level as well.  Along with that I try to give constructive criticism so they can work on the things they need to.   

[GwillMac6 20,666]

4 hours ago, kd4au said:

Not to derail the thread but why do you think this pattern happens?Why can't the new coaches keep things on track and keep winning after having big starts?

IMO it is because none of those coaches were as good as their record in those seasons. Exception not the rule. The other seasons is more of a reflection of who they really are as a coach.

[DAG 33,977]

16 minutes ago, GwillMac6 said:

IMO it is because none of those coaches were as good as their record in those seasons. Exception not the rule. The other seasons is more of a reflection of who they really are as a coach.

 

 

The SEC is lacking in the coaching department IMO. A lot of talent but average to above average coaching compared to other conferences. The second best coach in the SEC is probably CGM and then Hugh Freeze. Just think about that.

[Win4AU 4,052]

Average year 9-3, 10-2

Down year 8-5

.500 or better against Rivals LSU, UGA, Bama

Each coach we've had that flamed out had some sort of extracurricular activity bring them down.  If Gus is going to be successful we'll find out this year.  I believe it takes 5 recruiting cycles to build a top team.  1st recruiting class is your worst and it takes 4 more years to build quality depth.  What Saban has done at Bama is the exception.

[Gowebb11 9,314]

17 hours ago, GwillMac6 said:

We have to get off this high horse and stop acting like we are some morally superior university.  News flash. Every alumni/fan thinks this about their own school.

Well said GwillMac6. I was raised in north Alabama with Auburn and Bama but have lived all over. My stops include Texas with the Horns and Aggies, Mississippi with the Bulldogs and Rebels, Nebraska with the Huskers, and Tennessee with the Vols. The consistent theme is the most virtuous school with the classiest fans is your school. The most corrupt school with the worst fans is the rival school having the most success. I expect Auburn to be a consistent top 25 school with 3-5 year bursts with 10-11 win seasons, some occasional 8 win seasons, and an infrequent 5-7 year. I don't expect to go 3-9 two years removed from a National Championship and I don't expect 30 years between back to back 10 win seasons. I don't accept that kind of inconsistency from my employees, and I don't accept it from AU either. Consistent excellence is attained when it is ingrained into the culture of every employee of an organization. AU is not the state school and should not strive to be Bama. Instead we should demand excellence from ourselves at Auburn. If our leadership starts doing that, we will take it up several notches. WDE

[Gowebb11 9,314]

4 hours ago, kd4au said:

Not to derail the thread but why do you think this pattern happens?Why can't the new coaches keep things on track and keep winning after having big starts?

My opinion, culture. AU catches lightning in a bottle every few years. A top QB, a lot of 5th year seniors, favorable schedule, etc. all come together at the right time. They become a great team. But they are not a great program. That requires a well defined culture throughout an organization. Long term solutions versus short term solutions.  

[keesler 5,924]

10 minutes ago, DAG said:

The SEC is lacking in the coaching department IMO. A lot of talent but average to above average coaching compared to other conferences. The second best coach in the SEC is probably CGM and then Hugh Freeze. Just think about that.

+1

The current crop of SEC coaches are just middling compared to the past regime.  

 

There are very few seasoned/SEC caliber coaches to replace Urban Meyer/Steve Spurrier/Les Miles/Mark Richt/Bobby Petrino and even to a degree Houston Nutt.  I'm talking HC's that know how to run a program, recruit, hire solid staffers and know how to navigate the waters of the SEC and have the knowledge and ability to adjust/evolve their programs to stay on top of the SEC heap.

Currently the SEC is a great big fish tank with one alpha great white, a bunch of beta sand sharks, a stupid looking hammerhead or two, and couple of bottom feeders living off the refuse of the rest.

 

[AU64 10,122]

6 minutes ago, Gowebb11 said:

Well said GwillMac6. I was raised in north Alabama with Auburn and Bama but have lived all over. My stops include Texas with the Horns and Aggies, Mississippi with the Bulldogs and Rebels, Nebraska with the Huskers, and Tennessee with the Vols. The consistent theme is the most virtuous school with the classiest fans is your school. The most corrupt school with the worst fans is the rival school having the most success. I expect Auburn to be a consistent top 25 school with 3-5 year bursts with 10-11 win seasons, some occasional 8 win seasons, and an infrequent 5-7 year. I don't expect to go 3-9 two years removed from a National Championship and I don't expect 30 years between back to back 10 win seasons. I don't accept that kind of inconsistency from my employees, and I don't accept it from AU either. Consistent excellence is attained when it is ingrained into the culture of every employee of an organization. AU is not the state school and should not strive to be Bama. Instead we should demand excellence from ourselves at Auburn. If our leadership starts doing that, we will take it up several notches. WDE

I guess there are a few instances,  but without doing a major survey, seems that The State Universities in just about every state i can think of is the richest and historically dominant football/sports program in its state.

The Auburns, Ga Tech, Miss States, etc. etc...have their ups and downs as noted...but over the long haul the second school in about any state will always be second with not too many exceptions.   That might be considered defeatist ...but as long as I've watched college football, that's the way it has been and I don't think it's gonna change.

Just thinking about the recent draft and AU's future NFL players, seems to me that in recent years we have ruined the careers of many potentially good NFL players but subjecting them to a musical chairs coaching staff.  We blame the coaches for not developing the players and that could be a factor..but it is not uncommon for an AU football player to have 3 or 4 or even 5 primary coaches during his time here...new coaches, new systems and probably new techniques. 

The comment above about the quality of coaches in the SEC looks about right to me...and yet there is a low key crusade to get rid of our coach...and to replace him with whom?  

 

[DAG 33,977]

Just now, AU64 said:

I guess there are a few instances,  but without doing a major survey, seems that The State Universities in just about every state i can think of is the richest and historically dominant football/sports program in its state.

The Auburns, Ga Tech, Miss States, etc. etc...have their ups and downs as noted...but over the long haul the second school in about any state will always be second with not too many exceptions.   That might be considered defeatist ...but as long as I've watched college football, that's the way it has been and I don't think it's gonna change.

Just thinking about the recent draft and AU's future NFL players, seems to me that in recent years we have ruined the careers of many potentially good NFL players but subjecting them to a musical chairs coaching staff.  We blame the coaches for not developing the players and that could be a factor..but it is not uncommon for an AU football player to have 3 or 4 or even 5 primary coaches during his time here...new coaches, new systems and probably new techniques. 

The comment above about the quality of coaches in the SEC looks about right to me...and yet there is a low key crusade to get rid of our coach...and to replace him with whom?  

 

4

CGM job security is up to him and him alone. There is no silly crusade. I wish some of you guys would get that. He is accountable for his position right now.

[Win4AU 4,052]

It's pretty crazy how Gus has gone from the guru status to dufus status on offense the past 10 years.  Arkansas genius, Tulsa genius, Auburn OC genius, Ark State genius, 2013 genius, 2014 genius except UGA, 2015 off year? 2016 dufus, 2017 gives up control on offense.  Just like JJ forgot how to qb between ark 2014 and Louisville 2015 it appears Gus has forgotten how to coach offense.  I like Gus and hopes he leads Auburn on a Clemson type run of 11 win seasons but definitely a head scratcher.

[Tony87 53]

For this year?

1. 10 wins minimum. This includes a bowl win and we REALLY need a bowl win in a good bowl. 
2. Put away the teams we SHOULD put away and then empty the bench. Build depth by getting the younger players involved in live games and let them run the whole playbook.

3. Find a tailback not named Pettway or Johnson. We have some ideas, but no clear answer yet. Ease the pounding those two will take as we will lean on them against the meat of our schedule.

4. Log a 1000 yard receiver. Some of you may think I'm being silly, and that's fair. But think of what that will do for receiver recruiting. We've had maybe two 1000 yard receiving seasons in our history? And now we have (assumed/hopefully) one of the best passers we've seen on our roster? Log that 1k season and we'll be able to keep the receiver talent flowing.  

5. Beat LSU, A&M, UGA, and Arkansas. I threw Arky in there mainly because I hate losing to them. I'm also sick of losing to LSU and UGA. Snap the streak in Baton Rouge and snap the steak that shouldn't be against UGA. Put the SEC on notice. Also, it goes without saying I want to beat Bama every year.

6. This may seem a little over the top but BEAT CLEMSON. I don't care if it's a last second Carlson kick to win by 1. Beat Clemson, the reigning national champion, early in the year and I believe this team will feel like every game is winnable...and that's contagious. Momentum is at a premium. 

For our program?

i agree with all of you. Commitment and consistency. 

 

[McLoofus 35,182]

2 hours ago, corchjay said:

The pressures to win immediately dictates that a coach has to play his proven experienced players and hope the younger guys catch on.  The first couple of years the coach is in the "honeymoon" phase and can just kind of wing it and see what happens.  They win because we normally have good talent expect when coach Tubs came in.

Also a new regime brings life into a program.  The coaches come in preaching a level playing field for everyone and the 3rd stringers work their tails off to try to be the number 1 guy building quality depth.  After a coach has been around 6-7 years they've heard the same thing for 3 years before its time for them to start that possibly they don't put the work in that they should causing that player you looked to be a starter as a junior not buying in anymore and having to play a freshman.

I have always tried to be upfront and honest with my players, I've told him where they land on the depth chart, if I truly think they have a chance to unseat the starter, and what role I need them for in their current situation.  It's different in high school because they just can't up and leave school like a college student can but I see no reason why it can't work at that level as well.  Along with that I try to give constructive criticism so they can work on the things they need to.   

I really love having you coaches around sharing your thoughts. 

[augolf1716 21,105]

9 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

I really love having you coaches around sharing your thoughts. 

suck up

[corchjay 5,311]

Historically Auburn has a win percentage of .629. 

In modern football 1982 - present Auburn's win percentage is .693.

CGM win percentage at Auburn is .694

Just some numbers for perspective. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

19 minutes ago, augolf1716 said:

suck up

It's the only way I can get people to talk to me :/

[augolf1716 21,105]

15 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

It's the only way I can get people to talk to me :/

And that'a a damn shame just unAmerican

[bigbird 60,498]

3 hours ago, corchjay said:

The pressures to win immediately dictates that a coach has to play his proven experienced players and hope the younger guys catch on.  The first couple of years the coach is in the "honeymoon" phase and can just kind of wing it and see what happens.  They win because we normally have good talent expect when coach Tubs came in.

Also a new regime brings life into a program.  The coaches come in preaching a level playing field for everyone and the 3rd stringers work their tails off to try to be the number 1 guy building quality depth.  After a coach has been around 6-7 years they've heard the same thing for 3 years before its time for them to start that possibly they don't put the work in that they should causing that player you looked to be a starter as a junior not buying in anymore and having to play a freshman.

 

To add a little more to this, I think that fan expectation plays a role in it too.  Sometimes, you just dont have a good team or are up against better teams. A lot of fans discount any mitigating factors and only expect to win without understanding all that goes into it.  This creates unreasonable and unnecessary pressure that influences the fan base as well as those in charge.

[AU64 10,122]

3 hours ago, DAG said:

CGM job security is up to him and him alone. There is no silly crusade. I wish some of you guys would get that. He is accountable for his position right now.

Sure there is.....CGM is almost in a no win situation with some folks .....but guess it's back to the OP...."healthy expectations"....and maybe some of the expectations are beyond reasonable....JMO

[alexava 6,973]

Just now, AU64 said:

Sure there is.....CGM is in a no win situation with some folks .....but guess it's back to the OP...."healthy expectations"....and maybe some of the expectations are beyond reasonable....JMO

You are right. If we win it'll be attributed to a transfer qb or CCL or both. Or the sec was down. If we don't it will all be on Gus and Jacobs. To some people anyway. 

[DAG 33,977]

1 hour ago, corchjay said:

Historically Auburn has a win percentage of .629. 

In modern football 1982 - present Auburn's win percentage is .693.

CGM win percentage at Auburn is .694

Just some numbers for perspective. 

 

 

Now if this was a statistics course, we could see a trend. That would be more beneficial than just a cumulative total. He is 35-18 as AU coach. Not bad. However, over 1/3rd of his wins came in his 1st year as HC. Since then, he is 23-16. More importantly, let's look at CONFERENCE games. The first year, he is 7-1. Again, overwhelming 1/3 of his conference wins came in his 1st year. Since then?  11-13. That will absolutely not cut it.  I am not going to even delve into his record vs UGA, Bama and LSU.

[GwillMac6 20,666]

5 minutes ago, DAG said:

Now if this was a statistics course, we could see a trend. That would be more beneficial than just a cumulative total. He is 35-18 as AU coach. Not bad. However, over 1/3rd of his wins came in his 1st year as HC. Since then, he is 23-16. More importantly, let's look at CONFERENCE games. The first year, he is 7-1. Again, overwhelming 1/3 of his conference wins came in his 1st year. Since then?  11-13. That will absolutely not cut it.  I am not going to even delve into his record vs UGA, Bama and LSU.

at least he has broke even against LSU......... Record vs UGA and Bama? woooooooooof.

[GwillMac6 20,666]

19 minutes ago, AU64 said:

Sure there is.....CGM is almost in a no win situation with some folks .....but guess it's back to the OP...."healthy expectations"....and maybe some of the expectations are beyond reasonable....JMO

I expect Him to have a good year next year with Stidham and for however long he is here the real test though for Gus is after Stidham with the High School Qbs. He has not shown to us he can develop one. Hopefully Chip rep as a QB guru rings true and this is one of the last times we hear about Malzahn's lack of development with High School Qbs.

[DAG 33,977]

1 minute ago, GwillMac6 said:

I expect Him to have a good year next year with Stidham and for however long he is here the real test though for Gus is after Stidham with the High School Qbs. He has not shown to us he can develop one. Hopefully Chip rep as a QB guru rings true and this is one of the last times we hear about Malzahn's lack of development with High School Qbs.

 

I pretty much assume that he has foregone that and will now allow Chip to do the developing. Gus is a schemer. Nothing more or less. He is very good at it with the right personnel too

[GwillMac6 20,666]

Just now, DAG said:

I pretty much assume that he has foregone that and will now allow Chip to do the developing. Gus is a schemer. Nothing more or less. He is very good at it with the right personnel too

I certainly hope he stays completely out of Chips way and let him do his thang. Gus has certain traits of a good CEO Head Coach I have noticed. The team never quits on him. We never get blown out hardly in his tenure. Seems to be a good motivator. I know he probaly does not seem himself as a CEO Head Coach but he has the skill set to be a really good one if he will just let the OC do his job and not yank back play calling duties at the first sign of trouble.