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AU64

Not much respect for SEC coaches

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keesler    908
6 hours ago, ToomersStreet said:

Athletic Directors hiring coordinators with no HC experience are very inexperienced HCs led to the current state of SEC football.

I'm not sure the SEC Athletic Directors could hired any better than they did though.

There's been so much turnover in the last decade, and some of the replacements are young, inexperienced guys cutting their teeth in a tough conference.  Auburn couldn't hire better than a 5-19 Gene Chizik, and a 1 yr HC experience Gus Malzhan.  LSU couldn't hire better than a career d-line coach to replace the winningest coach in school history.  Looks like Smart/McElwain/Muschamp/Oregeron were the best UGA/UF/USC/LSU could get.  (Although it appeared UGA wanted Smart from the get-go.)

It's slim pickins if you're going after HC's that want to come to the SEC to coach, even at sky high salaries.  AD's have a challenge on their hands, and it's been proven that it's not easy to attract a proven winner who already knows how to run a program and operate in the top conference in the country. 

It worries me if Gus doesn't turn things around this season because patience is thin in the AU Administration; it's time to put up or shut up.  I don't want the Admin to have to go back to the well and draw from the committee (Mac Crawford/Bo Jackson/Pat Sullivan) to start another HC search.  :cringe:

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AU64    1,937
15 minutes ago, keesler said:

I'm not sure the SEC Athletic Directors could hired any better than they did though.

There's been so much turnover in the last decade, and some of the replacements are young, inexperienced guys cutting their teeth in a tough conference.  Auburn couldn't hire better than a 5-19 Gene Chizik, and a 1 yr HC experience Gus Malzhan.  LSU couldn't hire better than a career d-line coach to replace the winningest coach in school history.  Looks like Smart/McElwain/Muschamp/Oregeron were the best UGA/UF/USC/LSU could get.  (Although it appeared UGA wanted Smart from the get-go.)

It's slim pickins if you're going after HC's that want to come to the SEC to coach, even at sky high salaries.  AD's have a challenge on their hands, and it's been proven that it's not easy to attract a proven winner who already knows how to run a program and operate in the top conference in the country. 

It worries me if Gus doesn't turn things around this season because patience is thin in the AU Administration; it's time to put up or shut up.  I don't want the Admin to have to go back to the well and draw from the committee (Mac Crawford/Bo Jackson/Pat Sullivan) to start another HC search.  :cringe:

100% concurrence ....lots of factors about playing in the SEC make some/most schools less appealing than the alums think.

Deep inside, I expect that every HC candidate to an SEC job knows that it's just temporary and he will be lucky to make it more than 5 years.   

And now adays, once you are gone from an SEC job....the next job is probably with talk radio or ESPN.....and chances there have been reduced greatly this year. Tubs and Richt are about the only guys in the past 10 years or so who came out with a serious HC job.

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keesler    908
38 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

A lot of good points, but Miles and Spurrier were already out to pasture. At least Spurrier realized it and fired himself. Hard to imagine that Muschamp can replicate what one of the better CFB coaches in history could do, but I think he's going to be better than people expect. And like you and others have said, O just has to make the right hires and let them do their jobs and he'll do well, because he could just leave the football dorm door open, go fishing for a week and come back to a roster averaging 4+ stars and everybody's name ending in -eaux or -ette. 

While it looks like all O has to do is sit back and let this staff do all the work and let those 4-5*'s do their thing.....LSU folks are looking for way more than what Miles gave them the last 5 yrs.

2012  10-3  Lost bowl game to Clemson

2013  10-3  Won bowl game vs Iowa

2014  8-5  Lost bowl game to Notre Dame

2015  9-3  Won bowl game vs TexTech

2016  8-4  Won bowl vs Louisville

LSU fired their HC because he couldn't develop a QB consistently, and he was too stubborn to evolve and innovate his offense.  That W-L record IMO isn't bad, it's even a little better than mediocre but it doesn't meet the expectations of the LSU Administration or their fan base.  They want more for the massive salaries they are paying out and they want more for the talent they haul in every year.  Plain and simple, Winning carries a LOT of weight at LSU.

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McLoofus    3,586
4 minutes ago, keesler said:

While it looks like all O has to do is sit back and let this staff do all the work and let those 4-5*'s do their thing.....LSU folks are looking for way more than what Miles gave them the last 5 yrs.

2012  10-3  Lost bowl game to Clemson

2013  10-3  Won bowl game vs Iowa

If they're looking for "way" more than that, they're crazy. Wait, these are LSU fans we're talking about. Carry on...

Quote

LSU fired their HC because he couldn't develop a QB consistently, and he was too stubborn to evolve and innovate his offense.  

Exactly. Said the same thing earlier in the thread. Orgeron will be okay *if he hires the right guys and lets them do their jobs*. That starts with the OC. 

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ToomersStreet    203
53 minutes ago, keesler said:

I'm not sure the SEC Athletic Directors could hired any better than they did though.

There's been so much turnover in the last decade, and some of the replacements are young, inexperienced guys cutting their teeth in a tough conference.  Auburn couldn't hire better than a 5-19 Gene Chizik, and a 1 yr HC experience Gus Malzhan.  LSU couldn't hire better than a career d-line coach to replace the winningest coach in school history.  Looks like Smart/McElwain/Muschamp/Oregeron were the best UGA/UF/USC/LSU could get.  (Although it appeared UGA wanted Smart from the get-go.)

It's slim pickins if you're going after HC's that want to come to the SEC to coach, even at sky high salaries.  AD's have a challenge on their hands, and it's been proven that it's not easy to attract a proven winner who already knows how to run a program and operate in the top conference in the country. 

It worries me if Gus doesn't turn things around this season because patience is thin in the AU Administration; it's time to put up or shut up.  I don't want the Admin to have to go back to the well and draw from the committee (Mac Crawford/Bo Jackson/Pat Sullivan) to start another HC search.  :cringe:

Good points.  However, that begs the question, are AD's getting barely proven coaches such ridiculous buyouts that there is not enough money to go after a quality coach?

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AUld fAUx@    1,114
1 hour ago, McLoofus said:

A lot of good points, but Miles and Spurrier were already out to pasture. At least Spurrier realized it and fired himself. Hard to imagine that Muschamp can replicate what one of the better CFB coaches in history could do, but I think he's going to be better than people expect. And like you and others have said, O just has to make the right hires and let them do their jobs and he'll do well, because he could just leave the football dorm door open, go fishing for a week and come back to a roster averaging 4+ stars and everybody's name ending in -eaux or -ette. 

Burned up my likes for the day (catching up), but 

SC is where good coaches go to die (Coach Holtz comes to mind?) and, to his fans, Coach Orgeron doesn't have an accent. Both schools will provide room for the coaches to work.

 

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McLoofus    3,586
3 minutes ago, AUld fAUx@ said:

SC is where good coaches go to die (Coach Holtz comes to mind?) and, to his fans, Coach Orgeron doesn't have an accent. Both schools will provide room for the coaches to work.

Great gosh almighty, that is the truth. 

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lionheartkc    4,027
19 minutes ago, ToomersStreet said:

Good points.  However, that begs the question, are AD's getting barely proven coaches such ridiculous buyouts that there is not enough money to go after a quality coach?

It's not about money. Urban Meyer is actually a prime example and I give him credit (or blame him) for the trend. There aren't many Nick Sabans out there (coaches who are focused on trying to build a legacy of being the best of all time). More and more, the top coaches are looking outside of the SEC, because they can play far fewer tough games each year, and get into the play-offs. Look at Ohio State, Clemson, etc. Would they survive the SEC year in and year out? Hard to say, but based on how Clemson played us, my bet is that if they were an SEC team, they wouldn't have a National Championship trophy.

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keesler    908
35 minutes ago, ToomersStreet said:

Good points.  However, that begs the question, are AD's getting barely proven coaches such ridiculous buyouts that there is not enough money to go after a quality coach?

It's become a vicious cycle, all created by the astronomical salary UAT paid NS ten years ago, with no buyout  on Saban's part, he held all the leverage and uat gave him whatever he wanted.  Even prior to NS, Urban Meyer was pocketing a fortune, and at one time Les Miles had a clause in this contract saying he'd get paid $1.00 more than any college coach in the country at the time, and LSU signed off on it.

You have to pay out the nose for a proven HC, and you have to give them a massive guaranteed buyout just to keep them.  The coaches have all the leverage because they can force an extension after only a couple of years if they just mention that the expiration of their contract might affect their ability to bring in top recruits.  Even if a coach has a so-so year, lands in at middling bowl game he can still get a contact extension if he mentions to the PTB that his contract expiration is having a negative affect on recruiting.  He'll tell his AD that rival coaches are negatively recruiting against him and many AD's will scratch out a new extension on the spot.  Then when and if the time comes to can the coach, they have to pay out the nose again for the buyout and then manage to find enough $$ to attract a replacement + his staff.   Vicious cycle and money turns the wheel.

 

Edited by keesler
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GwillMac6    2,165
9 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

It's not about money. Urban Meyer is actually a prime example and I give him credit (or blame him) for the trend. There aren't many Nick Sabans out there (coaches who are focused on trying to build a legacy of being the best of all time). More and more, the top coaches are looking outside of the SEC, because they can play far fewer tough games each year, and get into the play-offs. Look at Ohio State, Clemson, etc. Would they survive the SEC year in and year out? Hard to say, but based on how Clemson played us, my bet is that if they were an SEC team, they wouldn't have a National Championship trophy.

FSU is the most desirable job in the country IMO as far as being treated like a blue blood and all that comes with it including the respect and cache. ( they are not) They have a easy schedule. Depending on how good Petrino has his team and we will see after this last year with Lamar Jackson but most years they have 1 sec like tough game on the schedule in clemson and very inconsistently Miami, UNC and Ville can be tough but fsu will always have the better roster than them. They are a SEC school and recruit like it without playing a sec schedule. Jimbo is never going to leave. All the rumors EVERY year of him being connected to all these different jobs I never bought. They imo always have the first or second most talented team in the country each year with bama. Ohio State is up there as well for easiest job.

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On 5/10/2017 at 10:21 PM, AURex said:

 

Is the SEC in a down period of coaching? Well, maybe. A lot of talent has retired or been hired away in recent years. But maybe it's just that the current crop of relatively new coaches haven't yet had time to demonstrate just how good they can be.

 

This sums up my thoughts on the "SEC coaching crisis" ATM. 

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fredst    589
16 hours ago, keesler said:

I'm not sure the SEC Athletic Directors could hired any better than they did though.

There's been so much turnover in the last decade, and some of the replacements are young, inexperienced guys cutting their teeth in a tough conference.  Auburn couldn't hire better than a 5-19 Gene Chizik, and a 1 yr HC experience Gus Malzhan.  LSU couldn't hire better than a career d-line coach to replace the winningest coach in school history.  Looks like Smart/McElwain/Muschamp/Oregeron were the best UGA/UF/USC/LSU could get.  (Although it appeared UGA wanted Smart from the get-go.)

It's slim pickins if you're going after HC's that want to come to the SEC to coach, even at sky high salaries.  AD's have a challenge on their hands, and it's been proven that it's not easy to attract a proven winner who already knows how to run a program and operate in the top conference in the country. 

It worries me if Gus doesn't turn things around this season because patience is thin in the AU Administration; it's time to put up or shut up.  I don't want the Admin to have to go back to the well and draw from the committee (Mac Crawford/Bo Jackson/Pat Sullivan) to start another HC search.  :cringe:

Auburn "could have" hired better than Chizik but not with the numb nuts AD we had as our fearless leader. I can't believe I had to stand in for a4e on this one 😕....

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14 hours ago, keesler said:

It's become a vicious cycle, all created by the astronomical salary UAT paid NS ten years ago, with no buyout  on Saban's part, he held all the leverage and uat gave him whatever he wanted.  

Given the results, we would have done the same thing had we been in their place...just sayin'. :cool:

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21 minutes ago, fredst said:

Auburn "could have" hired better than Chizik but not with the numb nuts AD we had as our fearless leader. I can't believe I had to stand in for a4e on this one 😕....

Yeah, I still scratch my head over that one...:cool:

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Gowebb11    668

This thread is kind of going in circles. On one hand, there is a premise that the SEC coaches are not real strong. On the other hand, we are talking about how mediocre the replacements have been for fired coaches. Seems to me to be a math problem. There are 5 or 6 elite programs right now. Bama, OSU, FSU, Clemson, maybe Oklahoma and fill in your choice on numbers 6 and 7 There are almost 130 FBS HC jobs but only 5 or 6 coaches producing elite level results. The rest of us are tired of going 8-5 and desperately looking for the next Saban or Meyer. So when we fire our guy, we're left with the new hot coaching prospect like Fleck or Herman, or a guy recently fired like Miles. And so the treadmill continues. 

What I've learned is not to fire your guy until the PROVEN better guy is signed up already. We didn't fire Tubs with the intention to hire a 5-19 coach. LSU didn't fire Miles to hire Coach O.  ADs have to recognize this trend and go all in to create the best possible culture and resources for your current guy to succeed at the highest levels.  I'm not thrilled with Gus but if we fire him, I hope it's for a superstar and not for a retread or question mark. 

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AU64    1,937
2 minutes ago, Gowebb11 said:

This thread is kind of going in circles. On one hand, there is a premise that the SEC coaches are not real strong. On the other hand, we are talking about how mediocre the replacements have been for fired coaches. Seems to me to be a math problem. There are 5 or 6 elite programs right now. Bama, OSU, FSU, Clemson, maybe Oklahoma and fill in your choice on numbers 6 and 7 There are almost 130 FBS HC jobs but only 5 or 6 coaches producing elite level results. The rest of us are tired of going 8-5 and desperately looking for the next Saban or Meyer. So when we fire our guy, we're left with the new hot coaching prospect like Fleck or Herman, or a guy recently fired like Miles. And so the treadmill continues. 

What I've learned is not to fire your guy until the PROVEN better guy is signed up already. We didn't fire Tubs with the intention to hire a 5-19 coach. LSU didn't fire Miles to hire Coach O.  ADs have to recognize this trend and go all in to create the best possible culture and resources for your current guy to succeed at the highest levels.  I'm not thrilled with Gus but if we fire him, I hope it's for a superstar and not for a retread or question mark. 

That's basically unethical...and I guess you might not remember "Jetgate"...'cause shopping for a new coach while you still have one is a no no and contacting a coach still employed as the HC by someone else is considered "tampering" by many folks and also a no no.   

Sure, you can have a list but most of the time it has been shown that such lists are worthless unless it is made up of OCs or DCs who might step up.

Meanwhile, who was the last superstar coach anyone hired in the SEC ?  Or elsewhere ?     I'm tempted to say Harbaugh or Urban....though when they were hired, both had problems ....and I'm not sure that many people considered them to be elite.  

And I keep asking ....who are the superstars (or even proven successful coaches) who might change jobs to come to the SEC ?  But I don't seem to get answers. 

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Gowebb11    668
4 minutes ago, AU64 said:

That's basically unethical...and I guess you might not remember "Jetgate"...'cause shopping for a new coach while you still have one is a no no and contacting a coach still employed as the HC by someone else is considered "tampering" by many folks and also a no no.   

Sure, you can have a list but most of the time it has been shown that such lists are worthless unless it is made up of OCs or DCs who might step up.

Meanwhile, who was the last superstar coach anyone hired in the SEC ?  Or elsewhere ?     I'm tempted to say Harbaugh or Urban....though when they were hired, both had problems ....and I'm not sure that many people considered them to be elite.  

And I keep asking ....who are the superstars (or even proven successful coaches) who might change jobs to come to the SEC ?  But I don't seem to get answers. 

That was my point. There are only a small handful of proven elite coaches, and they are usually quite happy where they are. The origin of this thread is that SEC coaches are not all that well respected. I'm not willing to concede that the current SEC HCs are mediocre as some have suggested. I believe there is much more on the field parity than ever before. Bielema is the most recent student of this. He was winning Rose Bowls at Wisconsin but is fighting for his job every week in the SEC West. In the 80s and 90s, Ole Miss, MsSt, Arky, etc... were no where near as competitive as they are now.

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DAG    2,561
19 minutes ago, Gowebb11 said:

That was my point. There are only a small handful of proven elite coaches, and they are usually quite happy where they are. The origin of this thread is that SEC coaches are not all that well respected. I'm not willing to concede that the current SEC HCs are mediocre as some have suggested. I believe there is much more on the field parity than ever before. Bielema is the most recent student of this. He was winning Rose Bowls at Wisconsin but is fighting for his job every week in the SEC West. In the 80s and 90s, Ole Miss, MsSt, Arky, etc... were no where near as competitive as they are now.

BB was winning because of this system placed in by Barry Alvarez. You might have had a point if Wisconsin was struggling, yet they haven't skipped a beat in his departure. Not to mention you just proved another point. One of the better coaches, Bobby Petrino had Arkansas very competitive with what you can argue were worst recruiting classes than BB consistently gets. In fact, they were #5 in the country at one point with only Bama and LSU ahead (This is when the SEC-W was very, very competitive). Now, they are struggling hardcore to win 8 games. Bobby Petrino had Arkansas competing with freaking Ohio State in a new years bowl game. BB is losing to the likes of VT. There lies the issue.

And then you look at the premier team in the ACC. Clemson. Do they have more talent on a consistent basis as LSU, UGA or Bama? Actually, on paper, we have had more accumulative talent than them. Some of these SEC coaches have done far less with more talent. I look at James Franklin and I am like wow look at what he is doing at Penn State, but then you also remember he had established a competitive culture at Vandy too. Could some of these coaches currently in the SEC have Vandy competitive like he did? I remember when we were freaking out at the potential of Vandy throwing money at Gus (and rightfully so), but could Gus have had back to back 9 win seasons at Vandy? 

Edited by DAG
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ToomersStreet    203
16 hours ago, lionheartkc said:

It's not about money. Urban Meyer is actually a prime example and I give him credit (or blame him) for the trend. There aren't many Nick Sabans out there (coaches who are focused on trying to build a legacy of being the best of all time). More and more, the top coaches are looking outside of the SEC, because they can play far fewer tough games each year, and get into the play-offs. Look at Ohio State, Clemson, etc. Would they survive the SEC year in and year out? Hard to say, but based on how Clemson played us, my bet is that if they were an SEC team, they wouldn't have a National Championship trophy.

Actually there is a lot of truth to that.  Having spoken to a college coach there are basically two kinds of schools.  SEC schools and SEC school that are not in the SEC.  Meaning schools that have the caliber program as far as fan base money and facilities, but you don't have to play an SEC Schedule.  Texas, Oklahoma, FSU, Clemson, Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, and Notre Dame.  Maybe West Virginia.  But I know when Clemson became available after Bowden was fired that was the most sought out job in college football.  An SEC caliber school not in the SEC. 

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ToomersStreet    203
16 hours ago, keesler said:

It's become a vicious cycle, all created by the astronomical salary UAT paid NS ten years ago, with no buyout  on Saban's part, he held all the leverage and uat gave him whatever he wanted.  Even prior to NS, Urban Meyer was pocketing a fortune, and at one time Les Miles had a clause in this contract saying he'd get paid $1.00 more than any college coach in the country at the time, and LSU signed off on it.

You have to pay out the nose for a proven HC, and you have to give them a massive guaranteed buyout just to keep them.  The coaches have all the leverage because they can force an extension after only a couple of years if they just mention that the expiration of their contract might affect their ability to bring in top recruits.  Even if a coach has a so-so year, lands in at middling bowl game he can still get a contact extension if he mentions to the PTB that his contract expiration is having a negative affect on recruiting.  He'll tell his AD that rival coaches are negatively recruiting against him and many AD's will scratch out a new extension on the spot.  Then when and if the time comes to can the coach, they have to pay out the nose again for the buyout and then manage to find enough $$ to attract a replacement + his staff.   Vicious cycle and money turns the wheel.

 

I for one would roll the dice and tell the guy good luck somewhere else.  There is always someone else looking to get that HC gig.............

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aucanucktiger    213
On ‎5‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 11:01 PM, DAG said:

I definitely don't agree with those sentiments. Sumlin has done above average at a time where most of the texas schools are down and he has talent at his disposal. The fact that he keeps having the same QB issues is troublesome, especially with the 7 on 7 culture down there. His success lays with Johnny Football, one of the best college QB players to play. 

Freeze is a great offensive mind. He has found ways to beat bama, but he also found ways to lose games in the oddest ways. He also had at his disposal some of the greatest talent in ole miss history. The problem with these guys including Gus is they are just too damn inconsistent, even with notable talent. They are very good at one thing, but I don't necessarily know if I would consider them star head coaches just yet. 

 

Their recruiting prowess alone backs up my opinion. Sumlin's inability to retain so much QB talent after he gets it is odd and re Freeze, no Mississippi school can win consistently without cheating, but if either guy were (e.g.) at K-State or Notre Dame they'd be on everybody's top 10 coaches list. Again, IMO.

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DAG    2,561
9 minutes ago, aucanucktiger said:

Their recruiting prowess alone backs up my opinion. Sumlin's inability to retain so much QB talent after he gets it is odd and re Freeze, no Mississippi school can win consistently without cheating, but if either guy were (e.g.) at K-State or Notre Dame they'd be on everybody's top 10 coaches list. Again, IMO.

It is not just about being there. Could they win at those schools? I don't see how that backs up your opinion when they are recruiting at a high level and still not playing up to par. Kansas state just defeated the aggies this last bowl season and Kansas State has far less talent. Give Bill Snyder the talent that Sumlin is getting at Texas A&M and see what occurs. Recruiting all the talent in the world and consistently winning 8 games doesn't make you a top ten coach. It makes you Ron Zook.

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GwillMac6    2,165
2 hours ago, AU64 said:

That's basically unethical...and I guess you might not remember "Jetgate"...'cause shopping for a new coach while you still have one is a no no and contacting a coach still employed as the HC by someone else is considered "tampering" by many folks and also a no no.   

Sure, you can have a list but most of the time it has been shown that such lists are worthless unless it is made up of OCs or DCs who might step up.

Meanwhile, who was the last superstar coach anyone hired in the SEC ?  Or elsewhere ?     I'm tempted to say Harbaugh or Urban....though when they were hired, both had problems ....and I'm not sure that many people considered them to be elite.  

And I keep asking ....who are the superstars (or even proven successful coaches) who might change jobs to come to the SEC ?  But I don't seem to get answers. 

when urbs and harbaugh were hired at Ohio state and michigan they absolutely were considered elite. Not tho when each was hired at Florida or Stanford. Michigan basically hired a superstar NFL coach who had been to 1 super bowl that he almost won and 3 straight nfc title games plus he turned around STANFORD of all places. Urbs already had 2 national titles when he went to ohio state so heck yah he was considered elite then. I will say HOW bama hired saban, osu with meyer and michigan with harbaugh was all a lot of luck. You need that when you hire a big name.

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ToomersStreet    203
2 hours ago, Gowebb11 said:

This thread is kind of going in circles. On one hand, there is a premise that the SEC coaches are not real strong. On the other hand, we are talking about how mediocre the replacements have been for fired coaches. Seems to me to be a math problem. There are 5 or 6 elite programs right now. Bama, OSU, FSU, Clemson, maybe Oklahoma and fill in your choice on numbers 6 and 7 There are almost 130 FBS HC jobs but only 5 or 6 coaches producing elite level results. The rest of us are tired of going 8-5 and desperately looking for the next Saban or Meyer. So when we fire our guy, we're left with the new hot coaching prospect like Fleck or Herman, or a guy recently fired like Miles. And so the treadmill continues. 

What I've learned is not to fire your guy until the PROVEN better guy is signed up already. We didn't fire Tubs with the intention to hire a 5-19 coach. LSU didn't fire Miles to hire Coach O.  ADs have to recognize this trend and go all in to create the best possible culture and resources for your current guy to succeed at the highest levels.  I'm not thrilled with Gus but if we fire him, I hope it's for a superstar and not for a retread or question mark. 

Well Penn State hired Franklin who I feel is one of the best out there.  I don't know why or how no one has hired Patterson away from TCU..  Jay Jacobs is an idiot and just hires bad people.  Tennessee's former AD wasn'r any better hiring Kiffin and Dooley.  Washington was smart hiring Peterson.  No One wanted the South Carolina job.  Georgia figured it was worth the gamble to fire Richt for an unproven  Smart hoping for Saban like results.  Kentucky being a basketball school is patient enough for the HC in training thing.  Orgeron is a gamble.  There is also the issue of firing your coach at the right time.  Texas fired Mack Brown hoping to get Saban.  When they didn't they found out there was no one else to hire so they picked up Strong.  To me I feel eventually some of the pressure will be taken off the coaches an some of the spotlight will go on the AD's with hire expectations on picking the right candidate. 

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ToomersStreet    203
2 hours ago, DAG said:

BB was winning because of this system placed in by Barry Alvarez. You might have had a point if Wisconsin was struggling, yet they haven't skipped a beat in his departure. Not to mention you just proved another point. One of the better coaches, Bobby Petrino had Arkansas very competitive with what you can argue were worst recruiting classes than BB consistently gets. In fact, they were #5 in the country at one point with only Bama and LSU ahead (This is when the SEC-W was very, very competitive). Now, they are struggling hardcore to win 8 games. Bobby Petrino had Arkansas competing with freaking Ohio State in a new years bowl game. BB is losing to the likes of VT. There lies the issue.

And then you look at the premier team in the ACC. Clemson. Do they have more talent on a consistent basis as LSU, UGA or Bama? Actually, on paper, we have had more accumulative talent than them. Some of these SEC coaches have done far less with more talent. I look at James Franklin and I am like wow look at what he is doing at Penn State, but then you also remember he had established a competitive culture at Vandy too. Could some of these coaches currently in the SEC have Vandy competitive like he did? I remember when we were freaking out at the potential of Vandy throwing money at Gus (and rightfully so), but could Gus have had back to back 9 win seasons at Vandy? 

Yeah, that's why Jay Jacobs has to give Gus his raises.  Duh!

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