No, Removing Confederate Monuments Does Not "Erase History"

[TexasTiger 12,800]

18 hours ago, alexava said:

I really don't give a rip. But I just think the flag removal was enough. Like someone mentioned earlier, most of us don't know where the monuments are. They are part of history whether you follow the actual history or the slanted versions. The flag was abused by many, even our state governments in the 60s. I know many people that were bothered by it, deeply. The monuments not so much. Not at all really. Some just take it too far. 

The monuments were installed by folks after reconstruction by people who couldn't "get over it" to send a clear message. That's the "history " they represent. 

[AUUSN 823]

[alexava 6,973]

Do northern states have civil war monuments?

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

22 minutes ago, alexava said:

Do northern states have civil war monuments?

Yep but don't tell anybody. That's different and PC, Blacks in Chicago, Detroit, Baltimore and Washington are treated with great respect (sarcasm).

[alexava 6,973]

1 hour ago, Proud Tiger said:

Yep but don't tell anybody. That's different and PC, Blacks in Chicago, Detroit, Baltimore and Washington are treated with great respect (sarcasm).

Actually a lot different. 

[ArgoEagle 1,767]

16 hours ago, AUUSN said:

I hear you man. Those Shia and Kurds, living under years of Bathist oppression should have just gotten over it and get on with life. How dare they want Saddam's statue torn down. What snowflakes...

African Americans should just do the same...

Yep. Let it go. Enjoy your freedom. Life goes on.

[Mims44 1,864]

Of course I'm for removing monuments, monuments for the most part are stupid.

Get rid of all of them, use the land for something worthwhile, maybe a water fountain?

We should remove graveyards too IMO.

[quietfan 233]

On 5/24/2017 at 9:32 PM, alexava said:

Removing the flag from state grounds was proper. Leave the monuments alone. They never carried the stigma or were used to intimidate like the flag. Choose your battles wisely, give and take....  so enough, leave the damn monuments alone. Wherever the hell they are. 

Who gets to define stigma?  I think they carry stigma to many people.

[quietfan 233]

15 hours ago, AUUSN said:

Let's not forget [Attorney] General Jefferson Beauregard Sessions!

 

 

[alexava 6,973]

34 minutes ago, quietfan said:

Who gets to define stigma?  I think they carry stigma to many people.

I'm not defining it. Just quantifying it. Compared to the flag it's minute. 

[homersapien 11,352]

6 hours ago, ArgoEagle said:

Yep. Let it go. Enjoy your freedom. Life goes on.

That sounds like something only a jerk would say.

Who are you to lecture black people about how they should feel about their history?  

And who are we to allow monuments celebrating the defense of such an evil?

[homersapien 11,352]

2 hours ago, quietfan said:

Who gets to define stigma?  I think they carry stigma to many people.

And in this case, for centuries.

We are better off as a country by dealing with the reality of our history instead of the myth of it.

[TitanTiger 20,469]

1 hour ago, alexava said:

I'm not defining it. Just quantifying it. Compared to the flag it's minute. 

But that's to you.  And unless I missed something, you aren't black.  Surely you can understand that some, even many or most black people might see all of this in a different light and don't give the same nuance to flag vs monument that you do.  

[homersapien 11,352]

Not to mention that - as a minority - Blacks have never had much power to do anything about it, just endure the insult.

Fortunately, there are now enough thoughtful white people who - joined with them - can finally do what's right.

[TitanTiger 20,469]

My thing is this...I have no problem with Civil War museums or other historical attractions that have Confederate artifacts and such.  But there is a difference in that and in monuments built to honor the Confederacy.  No matter how complicated or what other good some of them may have done, the bottom line is they fought for a country whose primary reason for existing was to continue slavery.  And they lost.  Most of the black people who live in this country are descendants of men and women who were enslaved in the South.  So not only should we not be honoring them with displays for that purpose, but it's highly likely to be offensive to those whose ancestors were bought and sold like property and treated like non-humans.

You don't have to erase history, you just need it to be in its proper context.  Confederate artifacts should be in the context of a Civil War historical display that speaks to the overall issues of the conflict, and not designed to exalt or honor them or what they stood for.

[SaturdayGT 719]

Im OK with leaving them or taking them down.  My whole thing is,.. The human race has come a long long way, we've been to the moon and back, sailed across oceans, suffered plagues, slavery, battled wars.. Somethings seem so petty compared to some to the many things so many have had to endure and overcome as a species.  A statue is one of them. I just cant except that any of us are too fragile to deal with these statues remaining or being destroyed. Its just strange to me how things like this become oh so critical in importance.

[SaturdayGT 719]

[TitanTiger 20,469]

24 minutes ago, SaturdayGT said:

Im OK with leaving them or taking them down.  My whole thing is,.. The human race has come a long long way, we've been to the moon and back, sailed across oceans, suffered plagues, slavery, battled wars.. Somethings seem so petty compared to some to the many things so many have had to endure and overcome as a species.  A statue is one of them. I just cant except that any of us are too fragile to deal with these statues remaining or being destroyed. Its just strange to me how things like this become oh so critical in importance.

Conversely, I don't understand why people get so wrapped around the axle about having them taken down or moved.  No one is saying we can't talk about the Civil War or the Confederacy.  But just like I doubt that many Jews with ancestors who survived the Holocaust would be fond of any statues honoring any Nazi figures.  I mean, a lot of people feel Bear Bryant was a great Alabamian, would you want a statue of him located anywhere in Auburn?  

It just seems fairly straightforward to me:  Many of my friends and neighbors naturally have no affectionate or nostalgic thoughts about the Confederacy or any of its leaders.  In fact, it only brings up offensive and hurtful images to them of their people being abused, families ripped apart, beaten, hanged and sold like property.  On top of that, it was the losing side of a war in which we are again part of the country that defeated them.  We are Americans, not Confederates.  Given this, I just don't see any reason to honor Confederate figures outside of some sort of museum or historical park where more context of the Civil War and the issues surrounding it can be presented.  It seems like a no-brainer that no one should get upset over.

[Mims44 1,864]

1 hour ago, homersapien said:

Not to mention that - as a minority - Blacks have never had much power to do anything about it, just endure the insult.

Fortunately, there are now enough thoughtful white people who - joined with them - can finally do what's right.

Yeah, thanks whitey. That's all any people need, white people to take their side so they can finally do something.

U so cool and thoughtful Homer.

[TitanTiger 20,469]

2 minutes ago, Mims44 said:

Yeah, thanks whitey. That's all any people need, white people to take their side so they can finally do something.

U so cool and thoughtful Homer.

When you are a distinct minority and can't really make certain things happen by sheer voting power, of course you need some allies from other groups.  Not sure why this is an issue to you.

[Mims44 1,864]

Just now, TitanTiger said:

When you are a distinct minority and can't really make certain things happen by sheer voting power, of course you need some allies from other groups.  Not sure why this is an issue to you.

Because a lot of southern states are 30% or so black, and almost always more unified on several things (especially monuments to racism) than whites.

So saying "fortunately now there are whites like me (homer) to do whats right" is more or less a back handed way of saying 'Make sure and thank whitey' ... It's un-needed and a bit douchey. If white's had done it 30-40 years ago cool, black men and women are their own political voting force now and can/are getting changes made.

[homersapien 11,352]

1 hour ago, SaturdayGT said:

Im OK with leaving them or taking them down.  My whole thing is,.. The human race has come a long long way, we've been to the moon and back, sailed across oceans, suffered plagues, slavery, battled wars.. Somethings seem so petty compared to some to the many things so many have had to endure and overcome as a species.  A statue is one of them. I just cant except that any of us are too fragile to deal with these statues remaining or being destroyed. Its just strange to me how things like this become oh so critical in importance.

Again, try to imagine neo-fascists erecting monuments to Hitler and the third Reich. On public property. Funded with public money.

You really wouldn't understand why people would oppose that?

[homersapien 11,352]

53 minutes ago, Mims44 said:

Yeah, thanks whitey. That's all any people need, white people to take their side so they can finally do something.

U so cool and thoughtful Homer.

You apparently know very little about our history if you think black people could have accomplished this on their own without the support of others.

If you are a Southerner, you're one of the mindless ones.

[homersapien 11,352]

52 minutes ago, Mims44 said:

Because a lot of southern states are 30% or so black, and almost always more unified on several things (especially monuments to racism) than whites.

So saying "fortunately now there are whites like me (homer) to do whats right" is more or less a back handed way of saying 'Make sure and thank whitey' ... It's un-needed and a bit douchey. If white's had done it 30-40 years ago cool, black men and women are their own political voting force now and can/are getting changes made.

Yep, missed the point.  Completely.

 

[SaltyTiger 7,761]

1 hour ago, homersapien said:

Again, try to imagine neo-fascists erecting monuments to Hitler and the third Reich. On public property. Funded with public money.

You really wouldn't understand why people would oppose that?

For some reason I do not see a statue of Confederate general in the same light as Hitler.... I do understand a few people not wanting certain statues.I would raise hell if someone erected a statue of Bahr Bryant on their Private property adjacent to the Auburn campus.