No, Removing Confederate Monuments Does Not "Erase History"

[Mims44 1,867]

7 minutes ago, japantiger said:

Have you ever been to Dublin on St Patties day?  I can assure you that the Irish are not in the least concerned about their depiction....They care about as much as I do with depictions of Southerners as all being inbred hillbilly's like Homey....

I was actually speaking just about Americans, why I used Notre Dame as an example.

It's not that I care one way or the other. I've stated multiple times through multiple similar threads I couldn't care less about monuments of any kind. I also understand that not everyone does or should share my apathy towards them.

I simply do not like hypocritical or racist thought processes. If you think monuments to people who treated blacks like crap need to be torn down but monuments to people who mistreated natives are OK. Then you are a hypocrite or a racist... or both.

 

If your argument is that they should be removed because they were traitors to the USA, that's completely different, as outside of the Civil War I can't think of any time we have made statues to celebrate traitors. But it seems as though the racial issue is why most are pulling for the removal.

 

[japantiger 4,051]

2 hours ago, alexava said:

Do Native Americans want Andrew Jackson monuments destroyed? Almost every person in military or political history has s*** on a different sect, race or ethnicity of people. At some point we have to live and let die. 

Yep...I memorialize the Trail of Tears (my wife and by default my kids have Cherokee ancestry) as a lamentable episode from our past while also ensuring my kids understand the history and lessons of Horseshoe Bend, etc.  It shouldn't be an either/or...and it wasn't for 100 years after the Civil War until the great Uniter; uh, er, Divider, uh, er, I forget which one he is supposed to be; interjected himself into the equation.  

My Great Great grandfather served in the 47th Alabama; which ultimately landed it as part of the Army of Northern Virginia on the right flank of Picket's Charge...it didn't end well for the 47th or him.  Believe it or not; some of us are smart enough to understand the difference between celebrating our ancestors and their history and the morality of slavery....

[SaltyTiger 7,773]

4 hours ago, japantiger said:

Yep...I memorialize the Trail of Tears (my wife and by default my kids have Cherokee ancestry) as a lamentable episode from our past while also ensuring my kids understand the history and lessons of Horseshoe Bend, etc.  It shouldn't be an either/or...and it wasn't for 100 years after the Civil War until the great Uniter; uh, er, Divider, uh, er, I forget which one he is supposed to be; interjected himself into the equation.  

My Great Great grandfather served in the 47th Alabama; which ultimately landed it as part of the Army of Northern Virginia on the right flank of Picket's Charge...it didn't end well for the 47th or him.  Believe it or not; some of us are smart enough to understand the difference between celebrating our ancestors and their history and the morality of slavery....

Well said Jap. Many supposedly open minded people will not understand. You are simply ignorant per the true history.

[homersapien 11,357]

1 hour ago, SaltyTiger said:

Well said Jap. Many supposedly open minded people will not understand. You are simply ignorant per the true history.

What "true" history are you referring to?

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

Why Democrats don't like the Confederacy.......

http://mobile.wnd.com/2017/05/why-democrats-want-you-to-forget-the-confederacy/

[AUUSN 823]

3 minutes ago, Proud Tiger said:

Why Democrats don't like the Confederacy.......

http://mobile.wnd.com/2017/05/why-democrats-want-you-to-forget-the-confederacy/

Let's talk about some history.

On two occasions, this poster called Cole "boy"

This poster also started a thread about Robert E. Lee on Martin Luther King day.

I am not a Democrat and I'm the one who started this thread.

Oh and linking World Net Daily?

 

 

[AUDub 11,136]

Just now, AUUSN said:

This poster also started a thread about Robert E. Lee on Martin Luther King day.

Your forgot "on multiple occasions."

Just now, AUUSN said:

Oh and linking World Net Daily?

If nothing else, it provides some comic relief 

[alexava 6,973]

3 hours ago, AUUSN said:

Let's talk about some history.

On two occasions, this poster called Cole "boy"

This poster also started a thread about Robert E. Lee on Martin Luther King day.

I am not a Democrat and I'm the one who started this thread.

Oh and linking World Net Daily?

 

 

You forgot he got suspended for posting a racial joke and claimed a black friend sent it to him. 

[homersapien 11,357]

4 hours ago, Proud Tiger said:

Why Democrats don't like the Confederacy.......

http://mobile.wnd.com/2017/05/why-democrats-want-you-to-forget-the-confederacy/

Do you "like" the Confederacy?

[TitanTiger 20,472]

On 5/27/2017 at 3:33 PM, japantiger said:

Yep...I memorialize the Trail of Tears (my wife and by default my kids have Cherokee ancestry) as a lamentable episode from our past while also ensuring my kids understand the history and lessons of Horseshoe Bend, etc.  It shouldn't be an either/or...and it wasn't for 100 years after the Civil War until the great Uniter; uh, er, Divider, uh, er, I forget which one he is supposed to be; interjected himself into the equation.  

My Great Great grandfather served in the 47th Alabama; which ultimately landed it as part of the Army of Northern Virginia on the right flank of Picket's Charge...it didn't end well for the 47th or him.  Believe it or not; some of us are smart enough to understand the difference between celebrating our ancestors and their history and the morality of slavery....

The problem is, you don't seem to understand the difference in you, personally, on your own time, dime and property, celebrating your ancestors and their history and expecting others to do so with you through things like prominent monuments on public property.

[TexasTiger 12,826]

8 hours ago, Proud Tiger said:

Why Democrats don't like the Confederacy.......

http://mobile.wnd.com/2017/05/why-democrats-want-you-to-forget-the-confederacy/

You would have preferred they had succeeded?

[WDavE 332]

On 5/27/2017 at 3:33 PM, japantiger said:

Yep...I memorialize the Trail of Tears (my wife and by default my kids have Cherokee ancestry) as a lamentable episode from our past while also ensuring my kids understand the history and lessons of Horseshoe Bend, etc.  It shouldn't be an either/or...and it wasn't for 100 years after the Civil War until the great Uniter; uh, er, Divider, uh, er, I forget which one he is supposed to be; interjected himself into the equation.  

My Great Great grandfather served in the 47th Alabama; which ultimately landed it as part of the Army of Northern Virginia on the right flank of Picket's Charge...it didn't end well for the 47th or him.  Believe it or not; some of us are smart enough to understand the difference between celebrating our ancestors and their history and the morality of slavery....

Both sides of my family have native roots also.

 

Don't forget about Mr. Lincoln.

 

His quote: "It is my purpose to utterly exterminate the Sioux!"

 

[ArgoEagle 1,771]

On ‎5‎/‎27‎/‎2017 at 3:29 PM, Mims44 said:

I was actually speaking just about Americans, why I used Notre Dame as an example.

It's not that I care one way or the other. I've stated multiple times through multiple similar threads I couldn't care less about monuments of any kind. I also understand that not everyone does or should share my apathy towards them.

I simply do not like hypocritical or racist thought processes. If you think monuments to people who treated blacks like crap need to be torn down but monuments to people who mistreated natives are OK. Then you are a hypocrite or a racist... or both.

 

If your argument is that they should be removed because they were traitors to the USA, that's completely different, as outside of the Civil War I can't think of any time we have made statues to celebrate traitors. But it seems as though the racial issue is why most are pulling for the removal.

 

Mims, thinking I've got the context of your posts figured out. Would you rather see white people stop grandstanding and going over the top to try to show their sympathy for what has happened to the black people of the past, and stop pandering to black people to try to get a pat on the back for doing so? Would you not rather see white people live in the here and now and treat black people with mutual respect and expect the same from them. Statues and monuments mean nothing to me either. It's what you do today and in the future that should define you as a person. Do you agree?

[homersapien 11,357]

" going over the top to try to show their sympathy for what has happened to the black people of the past, and stop pandering to black people to try to get a pat on the back for doing so?"

What a warped premise that is.  

How is removing statues to memorialize people who rebelled against the country for the sake of preserving chattel slavery.  You sound as if you have no idea what slavery actually was.

People who do understand what it was don't feel we should do this in order to "pander" to the victims. They do so out of a sense of basic decency.

[homersapien 11,357]

1 hour ago, WDavE said:

Both sides of my family have native roots also.

 

Don't forget about Mr. Lincoln.

 

His quote: "It is my purpose to utterly exterminate the Sioux!"

 

That's a good point, but it's not what we celebrate about Lincoln. 

Very few Americans during that time viewed either African Americans or native Americans as being equally human with themselves.  But not every American was willing to rebel against the country for the sake of preserving chattel slavery.

And we don't see many memorials dedicated to celebrating those dedicated to the act of genocide against native Americans.  I seriously doubt Lincoln was committed to such a thing.  Words are not as convincing as actions.

[Mims44 1,867]

6 minutes ago, ArgoEagle said:

Mims, thinking I've got the context of your posts figured out. Would you rather see white people stop grandstanding and going over the top to try to show their sympathy for what has happened to the black people of the past, and stop pandering to black people to try to get a pat on the back for doing so? Would you not rather see white people live in the here and now and treat black people with mutual respect and expect the same from them. Statues and monuments mean nothing to me either. It's what you do today and in the future that should define you as a person. Do you agree?

To the bolded part, In my experience most of Americans already do this in real life. On the internet however, and the media you would think a race war is seconds from happening.

 

To the rest, I usually find it hilarious. The older out of touch white people that will (very early in a conversation) mention how they voted for Obama twice or how much they hate that the redskins didn't change their name or what an embarrassment the Civil War/slavery was.

To think you hold multiple degrees, are a combat veteran, and have been all around the world... yet they see that your skin color is darker than theirs and say "Screw all that, let's talk about race and Americas mistreatment of minorities over it's lifespan." ..... It is definitely weird and cringey.

 

 

And that's been my point (kinda) with the monuments. Remove them because we don't celebrate secessionists and failed rebellions and traitors. Don't remove them because they hated and mistreated black people, if you do that then to not be a hypocrite you are gonna have to remove all statues of all white people through most of this countries history.

[AUDub 11,136]

1 hour ago, WDavE said:

Both sides of my family have native roots also.

 

Don't forget about Mr. Lincoln.

 

His quote: "It is my purpose to utterly exterminate the Sioux!"

 

Not Lincoln. That was actually General John Pope, the man sent to quell their uprising in Minnesota after his defeat at Bull Run. Lincoln was a racist (as was everyone else), but to his credit he actually commuted the sentences of many of them, saying “I could not afford to hang men for votes.”

 

[ArgoEagle 1,771]

32 minutes ago, Mims44 said:

To the bolded part, In my experience most of Americans already do this in real life. On the internet however, and the media you would think a race war is seconds from happening.

 

To the rest, I usually find it hilarious. The older out of touch white people that will (very early in a conversation) mention how they voted for Obama twice or how much they hate that the redskins didn't change their name or what an embarrassment the Civil War/slavery was.

To think you hold multiple degrees, are a combat veteran, and have been all around the world... yet they see that your skin color is darker than theirs and say "Screw all that, let's talk about race and Americas mistreatment of minorities over it's lifespan." ..... It is definitely weird and cringey.

 

 

And that's been my point (kinda) with the monuments. Remove them because we don't celebrate secessionists and failed rebellions and traitors. Don't remove them because they hated and mistreated black people, if you do that then to not be a hypocrite you are gonna have to remove all statues of all white people through most of this countries history.

Thanks for answering and I agree.

[SaltyTiger 7,773]

1 hour ago, Bigbens42 said:

Not Lincoln. That was actually General John Pope, the man sent to quell their uprising in Minnesota after his defeat at Bull Run. Lincoln was a racist (as was everyone else), but to his credit he actually commuted the sentences of many of them, saying “I could not afford to hang men for votes.”

 

Bo  Bb knows history.

[homersapien 11,357]

1 hour ago, Mims44 said:

The older out of touch white people that will (very early in a conversation) mention how they voted for Obama twice or how much they hate that the redskins didn't change their name or what an embarrassment the Civil War/slavery was.

That's not even a sentence.  It's a rant. 

 

[japantiger 4,051]

13 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

The problem is, you don't seem to understand the difference in you, personally, on your own time, dime and property, celebrating your ancestors and their history and expecting others to do so with you through things like prominent monuments on public property.

More faux outrage from the outrage industry.   I don't expect anyone to celebrate my ancestors.....ignore them....I don't care; just don't ask me to pretend they didn't exist...

[TitanTiger 20,472]

2 minutes ago, japantiger said:

More faux outrage from the outrage industry.   I don't expect anyone to celebrate my ancestors.....ignore them....I don't care; just don't ask me to pretend they didn't exist...

It's not 'faux' anything.  We are literally talking about huge monuments that stand on public property like public parks, the grounds of the capital and places like that.  These are spaces that belong to all citizens of a given state.  If you want to dress up like Stonewall Jackson or Robert E. Lee and dedicate a room of your house to Confederate memorabilia, I don't really care and neither does anyone else.  You can set up a shrine to them all and pray to them for all I care.  We are discussing something other than that though.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

Let's put out the eternal flame at the most adulterous POTUS ever....JFK. It is on taxpayer owned property and I think his actions were a poor example for the country. And while we convict personalities like  REL, let's not forget good old honorable Chappaquiddick Teddy.

[TitanTiger 20,472]

10 minutes ago, Proud Tiger said:

Let's put out the eternal flame at the most adulterous POTUS ever....JFK. It is on taxpayer owned property and I think his actions were a poor example for the country. And while we convict personalities like  REL, let's not forget good old honorable Chappaquiddick Teddy.

Red herring.

JFK, whatever his faults, was the President of this country.  Jefferson Davis and Robert E. Lee were not.

[Mims44 1,867]

1 hour ago, TitanTiger said:

Red herring.

JFK, whatever his faults, was the President of this country.  Jefferson Davis and Robert E. Lee were not.

#notmypresident