2017 Softball Discussion, 2018 Look-Ahead

[ellitor 33,081]

18 minutes ago, 1913-14 said:

as to your second point...shouldn't that apply to our team also

No. OUs players have been performings at a higher level than our young players overall.

18 minutes ago, 1913-14 said:

but the players continually shot themselves in the foot and showed poor development... personnel changes must be blowing in...

With respect to them some of the players we had to play are not at the talent level as some of the OU players. Remember Clint had to take some walk ons in each of his recruiting classes before the 2017 class we just signed. In softball recruiting often times is finished for a class 3-4 years in advance in terms of having the complete class committed. Clint had to do a lot from scratch. OU has been recruiting at a very high level for a long time & probably hasn't had to take a walk on in a while. This is the 1st class Clint didn't have to take a walk on. Yes personnel changes because the is the first full class committed to Clint that weren't priorly committed to Tina Deas on some level.

[wildling 35]

 

7 hours ago, Mikey said:

She's a good player. So are the others trying for the position. I don't see enough difference between the LF candidates for a fan to really have an opinion. The coaching staff works with these players every day, they can tell minor differences. We fans cannot.

The argument that "enough difference between the LF candidates" is not accurate imo. Jordan, frankly, has been horrible on both offense and defense [yet still got ABs/starts throughout the postseason]. Podany has a higher BA, a higher SLG%, more steals and a better SB%, and an OBP 119 points higher than Greenwood! Yes, the first 3 are relatively close, but if one player is slightly better in every category and significantly better in one, that's enough that she should have been getting many more ABs.

 

6 hours ago, boomstick said:

Supposedly, she's a very good hitter at practice and one of the best outfield defenders we have. The hitting just hasn't translated to games yet. 

See above, she's still significantly better than Jordan or Greenwood.

 

I think Myers did a good exploring the options/giving a lot of players a chance to prove their worth [vs Tim Walton who's only given 10 batters any significant chance], but as I've said before, I think he's mismanaged that spot late in the year. A good example is the first Cal regional game. He starts Podany, pinch hits Abbott her before her first AB (fine), then puts in Greenwood for 1 AB, then puts in Jordan for 1 AB, then goes back to Podany for 1 AB. Gives none of them repeat looks at a pitcher (who they might play again), gives none of them a chance to get in a rhythm, it's ridiculous imo.

http://www.auburntigers.com/sports/w-softbl/stats/2016-2017/052017ca.html

[AU64 10,122]

See that Whitney Jordan is hanging up her cleats....still has a year to go...but is 23 and said it's time to get on with her teaching career.    From what I understand she has been a good team mate and was an important part of the AU softball program's rise to national prominence. 

Piece in al.com for those who missed it....under Auburn sports...

Wishing her well. .

[WarTiger 3,901]

30 minutes ago, wildling said:

 

The argument that "enough difference between the LF candidates" is not accurate imo. Jordan, frankly, has been horrible on both offense and defense [yet still got ABs/starts throughout the postseason]. Podany has a higher BA, a higher SLG%, more steals and a better SB%, and an OBP 119 points higher than Greenwood! Yes, the first 3 are relatively close, but if one player is slightly better in every category and significantly better in one, that's enough that she should have been getting many more ABs.  Those are very skewed numbers given the constant rotation at the position all season.  Jordan also got the fewest at bats of the 3 over the season.   When Jordan was in the lineup every day in 2016, her average wasn't "great", but she had 6 doubles, 3 triples, 7 home runs and 39 RBI, .411 Slugging %.     Compare Podany and Greenwood this year and you get a combined 7 doubles,  0 (ZERO) Triples and 0 (Zero) home runs, and 7 RBI.   That tells me and anybody else that knows the game, that when Jordan gets consistent opportunities she delivers.   We don't know what the numbers would be if Podany or Greenwood played full time, but we do know what Jordan can do and over the course of a season with consistent play time production is significantly higher. 

 

See above, she's still significantly better than Jordan or Greenwood.  That's only your opinion and nothing more.

 

I think Myers did a good exploring the options/giving a lot of players a chance to prove their worth [vs Tim Walton who's only given 10 batters any significant chance], but as I've said before, I think he's mismanaged that spot late in the year. A good example is the first Cal regional game. He starts Podany, pinch hits Abbott her before her first AB (fine), then puts in Greenwood for 1 AB, then puts in Jordan for 1 AB, then goes back to Podany for 1 AB. Gives none of them repeat looks at a pitcher (who they might play again), gives none of them a chance to get in a rhythm, it's ridiculous imo. He's at practice every single day with these players and he's won over 1500 games.   I'll trust his judgement every time over your opinion. 

http://www.auburntigers.com/sports/w-softbl/stats/2016-2017/052017ca.html

 

[WarTiger 3,901]

15 minutes ago, AU64 said:

See that Whitney Jordan is hanging up her cleats....still has a year to go...but is 23 and said it's time to get on with her teaching career.    From what I understand she has been a good team mate and was an important part of the AU softball program's rise to national prominence. 

Piece in al.com for those who missed it....under Auburn sports...

Wishing her well. .

This doesn't surprise me.  This was the plan all along as she has graduated, she just happens to have another year of eligibility left.   Nice to see her go out on her own terms and appreciate everything she did for Auburn softball.   She will be missed for sure (at least by me anyway).

[ellitor 33,081]

The argument about LF may be decided by Livy Schiele when she gets here in August.

[saminbama 740]

I can't say I'm sorry that WJ is leaving, but I wish her well in her career pursuits.  I know she will make a great teacher and I commend her for her career choice.  That job gets harder every day.  I'm sure she's a fine young lady and she was obviously willing to play wherever Coach put her.  I salute her for that.  Some players can adapt to changes and some can't.  As WT said, she did much better last year when she knew she had one position to play. Unfortunately, this year she was put into so many different positions, I think it got in her head and she just couldn't adapt.  I want to thank for her dedication and the sacrifices she made for Auburn Softball.  War Eagle Whitney.

[augolf1716 21,102]

10 minutes ago, saminbama said:

I can't say I'm sorry that WJ is leaving, but I wish her well in her career pursuits.  I know she will make a great teacher and I commend her for her career choice.  That job gets harder every day.  I'm sure she's a fine young lady and she was obviously willing to play wherever Coach put her.  I salute her for that.  Some players can adapt to changes and some can't.  As WT said, she did much better last year when she knew she had one position to play. Unfortunately, this year she was put into so many different positions, I think it got in her head and she just couldn't adapt.  I want to thank for her dedication and the sacrifices she made for Auburn Softball.  War Eagle Whitney.

well said sam

[AU64 10,122]

Not a bad plan to fully concentrate on the part of her college experience that is her future....which is interning for her teaching certificate.  Sounds like coaching might be in her future and she could not have been at a better place than AU with CCM as HC to learn the trade.

Otherwise....considering the comments from Clint in the post game about next season and incoming recruits and the number of freshmen playing.....I'm thinking that WJ might not be the only departure before the season starts.....though seems that female athletes are not as likely to hit the road if they lose a starting position.    

 

[OlderWhiskey 953]

3 hours ago, WarTiger said:

This doesn't surprise me.  This was the plan all along as she has graduated, she just happens to have another year of eligibility left.   Nice to see her go out on her own terms and appreciate everything she did for Auburn softball.   She will be missed for sure (at least by me anyway).

Totally agree.  She meant a lot to the program last year.  I felt badly for her this year as she couldn't seem to get anything going at the plate.  Plus, she got me to listen to Disturbed.  I recommend their "Sound of Silence" video.  War Eagle and good luck, Whitney.

[Mikey 16,570]

2 hours ago, ellitor said:

The argument about LF may be decided by Livy Schiele when she gets here in August.

Or not if she does like a lot of high school players and can't adjust fast enough to unseat a returning veteran player. I don't like calling starting positions for players that have never played in a college game.  For instance, there's this football player, um, Byron Cowart that was gonna' sit the other DE's on the sideline to watch his greatness. The Snow kid was gonna' be the big stick this year in softball. On it goes. If I had to put money, it would be on a returner winning the position.

[ellitor 33,081]

3 hours ago, Mikey said:

Or not if she does like a lot of high school players and can't adjust fast enough to unseat a returning veteran player. I don't like calling starting positions for players that have never played in a college game.  For instance, there's this football player, um, Byron Cowart that was gonna' sit the other DE's on the sideline to watch his greatness. The Snow kid was gonna' be the big stick this year in softball. On it goes. If I had to put money, it would be on a returner winning the position.

I wouldn't call any of the returners up for that position as true veterans since none of them took the bull by the horns and the positions. I think it's unfair to use Tannon Snow as an implied example of a failure. She had an undisclosed illness that forced her to go back to Cali for treatment. Before that happened she proved herself to be the best hitter in the Fall by all accounts I have read. The plan was for her to be Kasey Cooper's protection by hitting behind Kasey in the line up.

Also I did not call her winning the starting position. That's exactly why I used the phrase "may be decided". I did not use a definitive term. I used an open ended possibility to make it crystal clear that I was not calling her to win the job. To your point being a freshman in college is tough, especially for a softball player under Coach Myers. I mean Alyssa Rivera is on the Team USA National Under -18 team and it took her half a season to lock RF down for us as a freshman.

However, with all that said, there are people who know a lot more about softball than me who have predicted her to win the LF job. Also I don't know if you watched the video on the previous page of Coach Myers but he says at least 3 ladies in the class just signed will be offensive upgrades for the team next season. The 2 most accomplished players in the class from high school are SS/2B Taylon Snow & outfielder Livy Schiele. Obviously the ladies have to prove themselves but it sounds like he expects 3 freshmen to win starting jobs at some point next season.

[AU64 10,122]

Guess coach's comments could be a prediction...or perhaps meant as a challenge to returning players that their jobs are not secure.

And...do we know that both Snows will be back and 100%?

[WarTiger 3,901]

4 hours ago, ellitor said:

I wouldn't call any of the returners up for that position as true veterans since none of them took the bull by the horns and the positions. I think it's unfair to use Tannon Snow as an implied example of a failure. She had an undisclosed illness that forced her to go back to Cali for treatment. Before that happened she proved herself to be the best hitter in the Fall by all accounts I have read. The plan was for her to be Kasey Cooper's protection by hitting behind Kasey in the line up.

Also I did not call her winning the starting position. That's exactly why I used the phrase "may be decided". I did not use a definitive term. I used an open ended possibility to make it crystal clear that I was not calling her to win the job. To your point being a freshman in college is tough, especially for a softball player under Coach Myers. I mean Alyssa Rivera is on the Team USA National Under -18 team and it took her half a season to lock RF down for us as a freshman.

However, with all that said, there are people who know a lot more about softball than me who have predicted her to win the LF job. Also I don't know if you watched the video on the previous page of Coach Myers but he says at least 3 ladies in the class just signed will be offensive upgrades for the team next season. The 2 most accomplished players in the class from high school are SS/2B Taylon Snow & outfielder Livy Schiele. Obviously the ladies have to prove themselves but it sounds like he expects 3 freshmen to win starting jobs at some point next season.

Great post Ellitor.  As good as these players are that Myers is bringing in, there's still a learning curve.  The perfect example is Rivera.  She's obviously a very talented player but it took her time to adjust.  It's likely going to take time for Taylon Snow and Schiele (and everybody else in the class) to adjust as well.   If they can adjust quickly then the sky is the limit.  I could be wrong, but I believe their biggest adjustment will be at the plate and learning to hit SEC/D1 caliber pitching.  I'm not that worried about them defensively.

[Mikey 16,570]

Quote:"  I think it's unfair to use Tannon Snow as an implied example of a failure...."

I didn't call her a failure, she has a medical condition. However, regardless of the reason she's a perfect example of a new player that didn't perform as projected. It happens more often than not, and for various reasons.

[ellitor 33,081]

2 hours ago, AU64 said:

And...do we know that both Snows will be back and 100%?

There's no reason for Taylon to not be here after she finishes up the Summer with the Team USA National Jr team. On Tannon obviously nothing to do with a medical condition is 100% but I was just passing on that from the nuggets I've read she is doing well in her recovery.

2 hours ago, AU64 said:

Guess coach's comments could be a prediction...or perhaps meant as a challenge to returning players that their jobs are not secure.

They could be both, and should be both to be honest. That way it's a challenge to all involved.

[ellitor 33,081]

2 hours ago, WarTiger said:

Great post Ellitor.  As good as these players are that Myers is bringing in, there's still a learning curve.  The perfect example is Rivera.  She's obviously a very talented player but it took her time to adjust.  It's likely going to take time for Taylon Snow and Schiele (and everybody else in the class) to adjust as well.   If they can adjust quickly then the sky is the limit.  I could be wrong, but I believe their biggest adjustment will be at the plate and learning to hit SEC/D1 caliber pitching.  I'm not that worried about them defensively.

Yup and doing it the Coach Myers way. There was a good interview with Alyssa a week or so ago on 1 of the AU sites where she said she was a grip it, rip it hitter coming into AU. She bullishly tried to keep doing that the first half of the year but Coach Myers wasn't putting up with that so she sat most of the 1st half of the season. She finally started doing things the Coach Myers way and was rewarded by becoming our right fielder. Coach Myers demands a cerebral approach to hitting by his players.

[warladytigers 172]

On 5/27/2017 at 8:14 PM, AU64 said:

Rivera is an interesting case IMO...came out of no where and immediately was a threat with her bat....which makes me think that because she was a freshman there was some intent to bring her along slowly....but  got pressed into service when some older players were having trouble with the bat.   I'm guessing she was a pretty good hitter from day one at AU...Otherwise, some of the players have just not made much progress this season...or in comparison to last season.  ....not gonna mention names but you can compare the stats from this year and last for several of them.   

Per Coach - she wasn't listening to the coaches and doing what they asked.  Guess not being able to go to her home state got her attention! 

[ellitor 33,081]

12 minutes ago, warladytigers said:

Per Coach - she wasn't listening to the coaches and doing what they asked.  Guess not being able to go to her home state got her attention! 

Can you shed some light on the bolded part WarLT?

[warladytigers 172]

Sure - she's from Florida - I'm sure she would have liked to go home and play in front of her friends and family......instead she got to stay in Auburn for the Florida series.

[ellitor 33,081]

5 minutes ago, warladytigers said:

Sure - she's from Florida - I'm sure she would have liked to go home and play in front of her friends and family......instead she got to stay in Auburn for the Florida series.

To me...

[AU64 10,122]

1 hour ago, warladytigers said:

Sure - she's from Florida - I'm sure she would have liked to go home and play in front of her friends and family......instead she got to stay in Auburn for the Florida series.

And so....that didn't hurt the team too?      

[ellitor 33,081]

10 minutes ago, AU64 said:

And so....that didn't hurt the team too?      

No. She was already not playing/barely playing because she was not taking the hitting approach Clint wanted her to. Now that we have a full picture of how the season played out it's very logical to think that not taking here as part of the travel team to Florida served as the much needed wake up call for Alyssa.

[warladytigers 172]

20 hours ago, ellitor said:

To me...

You asked - I responded - uncool response.

[boomstick 1,315]

2 minutes ago, warladytigers said:

You asked - I responded - uncool response.

I believe he was making fun of himself for not remembering. Don't think that was directed at you.