Stoops vs. Malzahn

[ToomersStreet 795]

7 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

i think gus can improve as long as he keeps his ego in check. he is making the right steps. i think lindsey is a bright young o guy with a big future ahead of him. we got a pretty good d guy as well when it comes to scoring d. i believe if gus helps and not interferes much i think we can get pretty good. of course i thought terry bowden could walk on water his first couple seasons.....lol

I hope everyone picks apart my response.

I am very apprehensive about evryone saying Gus is making the right steps.  1.  I had heard that when Gus could not find anyone to replace Muschamp because no one wanted to come to work for a guy that was on the hot seat Jacobs went out and hired Steele to come work for Auburn.  I will point out that Jacobs did hire Roof, Malzahn, Trooper and Looper to coach for Chizik.  2.  I have no proof for this but I am assuming that Gus lifting his qb coaching ban was something he was ordered to do by Jacobs.  3.  Rhett did not choose to go to UConn.  Jacobs pressed Gus at the end of '15 to part ways with Rhett and Gus refused.  Last season the money guys were very serious about booting Gus if he didn't part ways with Rhett so it finally happened.  Lindsey might be a great OC BUT that was a change that Gus was forced to make. 

 

Maybe all these changes are for the best.  And yes, everything is lining up for a great season, but these "right change" Gus has made, Gus didn't make.  They were forced upon him, which means Gus isn't learning.  Or maybe he will learn after the fact.  I dont know.

[Tiger 8,818]

If you were to poll the entire college football landscape asking them who would you rather have as your coach right now, Gus Malzahn or Bob Stoops, it would overwhelmingly come back in Stoops' favor. JMO though

[Tiger 8,818]

6 minutes ago, ToomersStreet said:

I hope everyone picks apart my response.

I am very apprehensive about evryone saying Gus is making the right steps.  1.  I had heard that when Gus could not find anyone to replace Muschamp because no one wanted to come to work for a guy that was on the hot seat Jacobs went out and hired Steele to come work for Auburn.  I will point out that Jacobs did hire Roof, Malzahn, Trooper and Looper to coach for Chizik.  2.  I have no proof for this but I am assuming that Gus lifting his qb coaching ban was something he was ordered to do by Jacobs.  3.  Rhett did not choose to go to UConn.  Jacobs pressed Gus at the end of '15 to part ways with Rhett and Gus refused.  Last season the money guys were very serious about booting Gus if he didn't part ways with Rhett so it finally happened.  Lindsey might be a great OC BUT that was a change that Gus was forced to make. 

 

Maybe all these changes are for the best.  And yes, everything is lining up for a great season, but these "right change" Gus has made, Gus didn't make.  They were forced upon him, which means Gus isn't learning.  Or maybe he will learn after the fact.  I dont know.

This post makes me freaking depressed! If true, of course. Because part of my optimism about the program is that our HC-in training was actually learning on the job.

[auburn4ever 1,266]

I'd rather have Bob Stoops. Heck, I wouldn't mind seeing Auburn go after Bob's brother Mark at Kentucky.

[auburn4ever 1,266]

Gus hasn't learned how to be a winning head coach in the SEC. He's just an 8-5 coach. Oh yeah, Stoops has won a national championship while Malzahn fooled around and lost his only chance at winning a national championship in 2013.

[augolf1716 21,101]

50 minutes ago, AU64 said:

Sorry...I had a bad day at golf yesterday and my attitude is still suffering from it...

suck it up old man...any day on the course beats everything

[ToomersStreet 795]

4 minutes ago, augolf1716 said:

suck it up old man...any day on the course beats everything

Such wise words.  @augolf1716 is like Buddha.

[bigbird 60,445]

2 minutes ago, ToomersStreet said:

Such wise words.  @augolf1716 is like Buddha.

You might be on to something...

[auburn4ever 1,266]

If Gus looses to Georgia and Alabama again, I hope Jacobs has guts enough to show Malzahn out the door and our new pres shows Jacobs out the door too.

In 4 years, here's Auburn's record against LSU, Georgia and Alabama.
1-3 against Alabama
1-3 against Georgia
2-2 again LSU

[ToomersStreet 795]

Just now, auburn4ever said:

If Gus looses to Georgia and Alabama again, I hope Jacobs has guts enough to show Malzahn out the door and our new pres shows Jacobs out the door too.

In 4 years, here's Auburn's record against LSU, Georgia and Alabama.
1-3 against Alabama
1-3 against Georgia
2-2 again LSU

But but but Gus will get it eventually............................................

[auburn4ever 1,266]

Maybe in your dreams.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

24 minutes ago, ToomersStreet said:

I hope everyone picks apart my response.

I'll do my best.

16 minutes ago, Tiger said:

1.  I had heard that when Gus could not find anyone to replace Muschamp because no one wanted to come to work for a guy that was on the hot seat Jacobs went out and hired Steele to come work for Auburn.  I will point out that Jacobs did hire Roof, Malzahn, Trooper and Looper to coach for Chizik.

The only people who had Gus on a hot seat were a group of fans.  He was 2 years separated from being in the National Championship and had made a move that dramatically turned around the defense that year. Heck, his seat is currently only warm now, again, outside of a group of fans who have wanted him gone since the defense collapsed in 2014.

28 minutes ago, ToomersStreet said:

I have no proof for this but I am assuming that Gus lifting his qb coaching ban was something he was ordered to do by Jacobs.

It's actually a lot more likely that he saw that Franklin needed as much help as he could get and, since our coaches aren't allowed to work with players in the Summer, an outside qb coach was the only real option. The continuation of that change, this year, is a direct reflection of Gus acting like a good HC and letting his OC do what he wants with his players.

30 minutes ago, ToomersStreet said:

Rhett did not choose to go to UConn.  Jacobs pressed Gus at the end of '15 to part ways with Rhett and Gus refused.  Last season the money guys were very serious about booting Gus if he didn't part ways with Rhett so it finally happened.  Lindsey might be a great OC BUT that was a change that Gus was forced to make. 

This is right and wrong. It was very obvious that Gus wanted to make a change, going all the way back to 2014. The problem is, no one what buying what he was selling when he tried to get Lashlee a HC position, and Gus, being very loyal to someone who is pretty much the equivalent of family, wasn't willing to toss him out into the street. 

If you read up on Gus and Lindsey, he was looking for an opportunity to get him back in the fold. He just wasn't willing to do it at Rhett's expense. While he didn't accomplish what he set out to do in 2014, he did control the story line in 2016 in order to make sure Rhett had a place to land.

 

Here's the thing, Toomers... you can't buy into the rhetoric. You have been force fed the "Gus sucks" message for years now and it has predisposed you to automatically buy into every negative story and question every positive one. You have to look at the facts. He's a young head coach who's made some mistakes, but at the same time he's been faced with situations that even some of the greats wouldn't have an answer for. All through it, however, he's kept the team together and playing as hard as they can until the final whistle. He's also kept Auburn out of the fray when scandals that make your head spin are popping up all around the NCAA.  This is an even more amazing feat, considering that our rival's fans go out of their way to find of fabricate controversy about our program. AND he's continued the recruiting success that he helped start with Chizik. This could be the year that all of the right pieces are in place, and if it is, then even the most die hard haters (well... maybe not Viper), are in for several years of happy football seasons.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

6 minutes ago, auburn4ever said:

If Gus looses to Georgia and Alabama again, I hope Jacobs has guts enough to show Malzahn out the door and our new pres shows Jacobs out the door too.

In 4 years, here's Auburn's record against LSU, Georgia and Alabama.
1-3 against Alabama
1-3 against Georgia
2-2 again LSU

If we beat Georgia and Alabama, does Jacobs get to fire you?

[ToomersStreet 795]

11 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

1. It's actually a lot more likely that he saw that Franklin needed as much help as he could get and, since our coaches aren't allowed to work with players in the Summer, an outside qb coach was the only real option. The continuation of that change, this year, is a direct reflection of Gus acting like a good HC and letting his OC do what he wants with his players.

2. This is right and wrong. It was very obvious that Gus wanted to make a change, going all the way back to 2014. The problem is, no one what buying what he was selling when he tried to get Lashlee a HC position, and Gus, being very loyal to someone who is pretty much the equivalent of family, wasn't willing to toss him out into the street. 

If you read up on Gus and Lindsey, he was looking for an opportunity to get him back in the fold. He just wasn't willing to do it at Rhett's expense. While he didn't accomplish what he set out to do in 2014, he did control the story line in 2016 in order to make sure Rhett had a place to land.

 

Here's the thing, Toomers... you can't buy into the rhetoric. You have been force fed the "Gus sucks" message for years now and it has predisposed you to automatically buy into every negative story and question every positive one. You have to look at the facts. He's a young head coach who's made some mistakes, but at the same time he's been faced with situations that even some of the greats wouldn't have an answer for. All through it, however, he's kept the team together and playing as hard as they can until the final whistle. He's also kept Auburn out of the fray when scandals that make your head spin are popping up all around the NCAA.  This is an even more amazing feat, considering that our rival's fans go out of their way to find of fabricate controversy about our program. AND he's continued the recruiting success that he helped start with Chizik. This could be the year that all of the right pieces are in place, and if it is, then even the most die hard haters (well... maybe not Viper), are in for several years of happy football seasons.

I am willing to believe your first two points.  However, my faith in Gus started to go in 2015.  Gus really hyped up both Jeremy and Roc Thomas and miss read both those guys(or just didn't properly coach Jeremy). He talked about how much the D had improved in the off season and it hadn't. Yes, it did improve throughout the season but Gus said it had come along way in the off season and it hadn't.  Bottom line Gus had multiple misreads leading into the 2015 season that I wont overlook.  Last year Gus said the next four to five years are about to be Auburns best then goes 8-5.  DO NOT SAY but we finished second and went to the Sugar Bowl.  We backed into second and the Sugar Bowl.  8-5 is still 8-5. We didn't get to the conference title game.  We were whipped by Oklahoma. we started 1-2 finished 8-5.  GUS NEEDS TO STEP IT UP!

[lionheartkc 6,150]

4 minutes ago, ToomersStreet said:

Gus really hyped up both Jeremy and Roc Thomas and miss read both those guys(or just didn't properly coach Jeremy).

This is something I don't understand. Why is it so hard for people to get that EVERYONE misread Jeremy. Coaches, sports writers, fans... everyone who saw him in practice or in a relief role saw a Heisman QB, yet there seems to be this need to give everyone but Gus a pass for not knowing that, when the lights came on, he was going to lose his mojo.

As for Roc... no one can know in advance that a player is going to be injury prone.  He was a 5-star running back who couldn't last 4 quarters.

Instead, you could give Gus credit for recruiting Barber and Kam, who weren't on most radars at all. Funny how there are just as many, or more, positive stories as there are negative...

7 minutes ago, ToomersStreet said:

DO NOT SAY but we finished second and went to the Sugar Bowl.

I won't say we finished second and went to the Sugar Bowl if you will admit that injuries, not coaching failures, cost us 3 of the 5 games we lost.

8 minutes ago, ToomersStreet said:

8-5 is still 8-5.

8-5 is a number. The entire SEC West, other than bama, which did not suffer the injury issues we did, had a worse record... as did most of the East. Also, don't forget that 2 of those losses were to the teams that played for the national championship, and had we been at full strength (or had a game plan in week 1), we had the potential to beat both. 

Why dwell on 8-5 when you can talk about handing Arky one of the worst beatdowns in their history... or winning 6 straight, 5 against SEC teams... 4 of which beat us in 2015... or having one of the most dominant defenses in the country... something we haven't been able to claim for nearly a decade? 

[ToomersStreet 795]

2 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

I won't say we finished second and went to the Sugar Bowl if you will admit that injuries, not coaching failures, cost us 3 of the 5 games we lost.

 

Admitted.

[gr82b4au 5,568]

Not a fan of stoops but he is obviously a great coach. That being said, I think even Gus would have dominated the Big 12 the last several seasons with that conference being down and Texas being hot garbage. The SEC is tough. 

[AU64 10,122]

1 hour ago, augolf1716 said:

suck it up old man...any day on the course beats everything

 Spoken by the guy who did not miss five puttts of less than 10 feet yesterday. 

[Auhud08 596]

I dont think Gus is better than Stoops, but i dont want Stoops at AU either

[McLoofus 35,182]

It's impossible to compare Stoops and Gus. Stoops won a national championship as a head coach before Gus had even entered college football as an assistant. 18 years as a head coach vs 5. And if not for a really unfortunate series of events- to include a freaking kicker injury- Gus would already have as many national titles as Stoops.

If Gus keeps recruiting at this level, hiring quality staff and letting them do their jobs, then he absolutely has a chance to be better than Stoops. We might not be able to compare W-L records because of the differences in competition, but we might be able to compare the actual quality of the teams- wins and losses vs ranked opponents, bowl games, players put in the NFL, etc. 

He's definitely got work to do, though. 

[Tiger 8,818]

55 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

It's impossible to compare Stoops and Gus. Stoops won a national championship as a head coach before Gus had even entered college football as an assistant. 18 years as a head coach vs 5. And if not for a really unfortunate series of events- to include a freaking kicker injury- Gus would already have as many national titles as Stoops.

If Gus keeps recruiting at this level, hiring quality staff and letting them do their jobs, then he absolutely has a chance to be better than Stoops. We might not be able to compare W-L records because of the differences in competition, but we might be able to compare the actual quality of the teams- wins and losses vs ranked opponents, bowl games, players put in the NFL, etc. 

He's definitely got work to do, though. 

Screw you and your level-headed thinking, bro.

[gr82be 14,421]

56 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

It's impossible to compare Stoops and Gus. Stoops won a national championship as a head coach before Gus had even entered college football as an assistant. 18 years as a head coach vs 5. And if not for a really unfortunate series of events- to include a freaking kicker injury- Gus would already have as many national titles as Stoops.

If Gus keeps recruiting at this level, hiring quality staff and letting them do their jobs, then he absolutely has a chance to be better than Stoops. We might not be able to compare W-L records because of the differences in competition, but we might be able to compare the actual quality of the teams- wins and losses vs ranked opponents, bowl games, players put in the NFL, etc. 

He's definitely got work to do, though. 

Thank you for being a voice of reason. 

[lost 452]

I rode the Gus bus faithfully till last year.  I had to get off after the Clemson game, the failures of discipline, and the Vandy, Georgia games.  I hope and pray we go undefeated this year and win the NC and i look like a fool for doubting him.  But i think if we have success this year it will be Because he finally LEARNED TO COACH and trust HIS TEAM.  His antics of last year, play calling and lack of preparation for the strength and weaknesses of his back up qb's showed a weakness that you do not see in the upper echelon coaches.  I am looking forward to see if he learned anything.....  I want him to succeed at Auburn and become known as one of the best!!!  But right now he is nowhere there as a head coach.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

5 minutes ago, lost said:

the failures of discipline

You lost me on this one.  Please elaborate?

[McLoofus 35,182]

26 minutes ago, Tiger said:

Screw you and your level-headed thinking, bro.

Nuh uh you are