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Stoops vs. Malzahn


GordoAU

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Every year I see people say "I think Gus can improve as long as he keeps his ego in check. he is making the right steps. i think lindsey is a bright young o guy."

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1 hour ago, McLoofus said:

It's impossible to compare Stoops and Gus. Stoops won a national championship as a head coach before Gus had even entered college football as an assistant. 18 years as a head coach vs 5. And if not for a really unfortunate series of events- to include a freaking kicker injury- Gus would already have as many national titles as Stoops.

If Gus keeps recruiting at this level, hiring quality staff and letting them do their jobs, then he absolutely has a chance to be better than Stoops. We might not be able to compare W-L records because of the differences in competition, but we might be able to compare the actual quality of the teams- wins and losses vs ranked opponents, bowl games, players put in the NFL, etc. 

He's definitely got work to do, though. 

Stoops was 60-30 against top 25 teams, Malzahn is 9-11.

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7 minutes ago, The Freak said:

Stoops was 60-30 against top 25 teams, Malzahn is 9-11.

What's your first takeaway from that? 

Mine is that Stoops has played 90 games against top 25 teams and Malzahn has played 20. Which makes sense when one man's career is almost 4 times longer than the other's, which was my point. 

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43 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

You lost me on this one.  Please elaborate?

The problems we had at the 1st of the year with Robinson  , the 4 arrested in May with drugs before that, and the evidence of favoritism by Gus among the players(  2015 and 2016) The problems of 2015 carried on into the summer with Jovon (  I Believe ) and was his downfall.  Duke was a bad apple that Malzhan handled badly,  According to the evidence Malzhan still distances himself some from his players and is not in tune with them?  Or maybe i am not hearing from the right people. It seemed his lack of trust in his players, and his ability to deal with them all at the same level caused problems last year some.  Why Roc left( not all the reason, but some) and why John Franklin 3rd was not handled correctly....   Just my thoughts and some i have heard from others

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42 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

What's your first takeaway from that? 

Mine is that Stoops has played 90 games against top 25 teams and Malzahn has played 20. Which makes sense when one man's career is almost 4 times longer than the other's, which was my point. 

The take away at this point is that Malzahn has not fared as well against similar competition.  He does have 13 years to make up some ground though.

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5 hours ago, bigbird said:

You might be on to something...

big-fat-buddha-sculpture.jpg

Can somebody please photo shop a six pack of PBR resting in that belly?

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14 minutes ago, lost said:

The problems we had at the 1st of the year with Robinson  , the 4 arrested in May with drugs before that, and the evidence of favoritism by Gus among the players(  2015 and 2016) The problems of 2015 carried on into the summer with Jovon (  I Believe ) and was his downfall.  Duke was a bad apple that Malzhan handled badly,  According to the evidence Malzhan still distances himself some from his players and is not in tune with them?  Or maybe i am not hearing from the right people. It seemed his lack of trust in his players, and his ability to deal with them all at the same level caused problems last year some.  Why Roc left( not all the reason, but some) and why John Franklin 3rd was not handled correctly....   Just my thoughts and some i have heard from others

The only way to avoid the problem with Robinson was to got all Minority Report and know about the "crime" before it happens. Gus handled that situation better than 99% of the coaches in the NCAA... certainly better than Stoops would have.

The 4 drug arrests are, unfortunately, par for the course in football, these days. In that case was it probably 1 guy, not 4, but they were all in the car, so they all had to deal with the blow back. Again, it was handled perfectly by the staff.

Duke was actually on Craig, not Malzahn.  Malzahn wanted him gone before the season and Craig stuck up for him. I believe Garner did as well. As Gus has a strong focus on helping these kids learn to be men, he's always going to error on the side of helping the kid. 

There is no evidence of favoritism for players other than that fabricated by fans. Gus's players are some of the most loyal to their head coach that we've had in many years. 

Malzahn definitely does not distance himself from his players.  In fact, the main reason his players love playing for him is that he and Kristi are like a mom and dad to most of them.

The "lack of trust" thing is also something that has been blown out of proportion by fans. No, Gus didn't trust Jeremy or John, but that was for good reason. Look at Peyton Barber and tell me Gus doesn't trust his players. Plus, if he didn't trust them, they wouldn't all talk about how much they love playing for him.

Roc left because he wanted to be the man and he was getting passed up. He was getting passed up because he couldn't stay healthy long enough to make an impact or be counted on as the guy banging in the trenches. End of story.

John just isn't a SEC QB. The only way his situation was not handled correctly is that he was recruited in the first place and then given too much of the coaches time when trying to develop him. Again, he's still on the team... that tells you a lot.

Sounds to me like you spend too much time listening to people who dwell on the negative and buy into to many stories fabricated by other doom and gloomers.

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1 minute ago, The Freak said:

The take away at this point is that Malzahn has not fared as well against similar competition.  He does have 13 years to make up some ground though.

Consider something else. Stoops got his first non-GA gig as an assistant in 1985. That was 21 years before Gus got into college ball. Stoops also spent 3 years working for Steve Spurrier before becoming a head coach. The 14 years of experience that Stoops had as an assistant before becoming a head coach is a few years longer than Gus's entire career. 

Gus may or may not end up being a better coach than Stoops, but again, it's silly to compare the two right now. 

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4 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

The only way to avoid the problem with Robinson was to got all Minority Report and know about the "crime" before it happens. Gus handled that situation better than 99% of the coaches in the NCAA... certainly better than Stoops would have.

The 4 drug arrests are, unfortunately, par for the course in football, these days. In that case was it probably 1 guy, not 4, but they were all in the car, so they all had to deal with the blow back. Again, it was handled perfectly by the staff.

Duke was actually on Craig, not Malzahn.  Malzahn wanted him gone before the season and Craig stuck up for him. I believe Garner did as well. As Gus has a strong focus on helping these kids learn to be men, he's always going to error on the side of helping the kid. 

There is no evidence of favoritism for players other than that fabricated by fans. Gus's players are some of the most loyal to their head coach that we've had in many years. 

Malzahn definitely does not distance himself from his players.  In fact, the main reason his players love playing for him is that he and Kristi are like a mom and dad to most of them.

The "lack of trust" thing is also something that has been blown out of proportion by fans. No, Gus didn't trust Jeremy or John, but that was for good reason. Look at Peyton Barber and tell me Gus doesn't trust his players. Plus, if he didn't trust them, they wouldn't all talk about how much they love playing for him.

Roc left because he wanted to be the man and he was getting passed up. He was getting passed up because he couldn't stay healthy long enough to make an impact or be counted on as the guy banging in the trenches. End of story.

John just isn't a SEC QB. The only way his situation was not handled correctly is that he was recruited in the first place and then given too much of the coaches time when trying to develop him. Again, he's still on the team... that tells you a lot.

Sounds to me like you spend too much time listening to people who dwell on the negative and buy into to many stories fabricated by other doom and gloomers.

Guess we aill agree to disagree

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Do people really think Stoops would just waltz into the SEC and have the same success he had in the BIG 12? 

He overwhelmingly had pointed advantages and with all of those advantages he has 1 NC win. This guy had AD in the backfield and found ways to lose to a nonpower 5 team . Now I salute him for what he accomplished in the big 12 . Still get a grip . Some of you guys bitched about Tubbs losing games that we expected to win and quite frankly the roster he assembled overachieved in retrospect .  Some of you guys would have aneurysms with stoops as a coach .

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4 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

The "lack of trust" thing is also something that has been blown out of proportion by fans. No, Gus didn't trust Jeremy or John,

The whole reason Franklin was here was because Gus didn't trust Sean, and that whole Clemson debacle was a result of Gus not believing that his players were capable of lining up against Clemson and beating them in the game of football. That mentality surfaced against UGA, too. And not everybody says they love playing for him. Stanton Truitt certainly didn't. 

Agree with you on the other stuff. I have no problem with how Gus has handled discipline. In fact, given his relative youth in the profession, I'd say he's done quite well. As for Roc, spot on. I'll trust Tim Horton's and Gus Malzahn's assessments of his abilities over his own. Those guys know a little about running backs. 

No clue about "distancing himself" (Lion didn't say that, someone else did), but recruits hear the family atmosphere stuff from current players as much as they hear it from the coaches. They see it when they visit. They have a different experience on our campus than they do on others. All the position coaches have their units over to their houses regularly. Whether or not Gus is around, he's created and promoting a legit family atmosphere and it's appealing to a LOT of really good dudes who happen to be good at football. Almost every kid he's signed qualified academically. The vast majority of them stay out of trouble. And, ratings-wise, we've been doing quite well as long as he's been here. And the assistant coaches who are helping to reel those kids in are, to a man, known as really good dudes.

He's taken a few chances on some superstars that haven't worked out. Had he not taken those chances on those guys, this board would have egged his house. 

I have some problems with some football things that have happened, but I'm highly impressed with how Gus has managed things off the field.

 

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29 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Can somebody please photo shop a six pack of PBR resting in that belly?

Obviously, not I.

Will this do?

z1CWBwH.jpg

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9 hours ago, DAG said:

We get it you want some of Bob Stoops in your life. Most on this thread, including me, do not want him at AU. Based on percentages Mark Richt is a better coach than CGM too. Doesn't mean I want him at Auburn.

Hell Yeah I do man . Fantastic coach . Your crazy if you don't think he did a great job at Oklahoma. His attitude is definitely questionable at times though. That's why I understand if you guys don't want him . As far as Richt as we sit here today he doesn't have much to show for the talent he had at GA. Richt never won a title like stoops did or even played for one. Percentages mean zero without championships. Stoops is a winner. He is never coming to AU though so this conversation is irrelevant. 

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My only defense of Stoops is that folks seem to forget that in recruiting, Oklahoma HS talent is not in the same ball park as most SEC states ....and sure he went out of state to Texas but he's was recruiting against all the instate power houses.  Played in a different league true....but you have to win where you play....and he did that.  His record against SEC stands up OK.  I'm an SEC guy but sometimes the SEC stuff...the superiority just does not hold water....

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To add to my point , he didn't  have to worry about UF, Alabama and LSU. I am not even talking about quality teams . I am talking about legit teams who were capabale of winning multiple NCs throughout his tenure at OU. Name me a team besides Texas in the big 12 that were burdensome like that ?

 

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3 minutes ago, JDUBB4AU said:

Hell Yeah I do man . Fantastic coach . Your crazy if you don't think he did a great job at Oklahoma. His attitude is definitely questionable at times though. That's why I understand if you guys don't want him . As far as Richt as we sit here today he doesn't have much to show for the talent he had at GA. Richt never won a title like stoops did or even played for one. Percentages mean zero without championships. Stoops is a winner. He is never coming to AU though so this conversation is irrelevant. 

So let's try to use comprehension next time . I never disregarded what he did in the big 12 or OU. I said I don't want him at AU. We play in an entirely different league where for an extended period of time was considered the most dominant. Stoops, who has had overwhelming talent has found ways time and time again to lose at OU against much inferior talent. I don't want to go through that at AU. So , if Gus was to get fired, no I would not want stoops, who at AU would not just overwhelmingly get the best recruits and face maybe 1 legit title contender annually.

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1 hour ago, AU64 said:

My only defense of Stoops is that folks seem to forget that in recruiting, Oklahoma HS talent is not in the same ball park as most SEC states ....and sure he went out of state to Texas but he's was recruiting against all the instate power houses.  Played in a different league true....but you have to win where you play....and he did that.  His record against SEC stands up OK.  I'm an SEC guy but sometimes the SEC stuff...the superiority just does not hold water....

 

The point is that in the big 12 OU was consistently 1 or 2 in recruiting rankings. So, yes if you are recruiting that well in the big 12 every freaking year, then it should not come as a surprise that you are able to be very successful in the big 12 annually. As much as I love AU, in the SEC, with any given year we could have a top 15 recruiting class and be no 4 or 5 among SEC teams. Think about that? Bob Stoops, with overwhelming talent, is losing to none power, 5 teams. CONSISTENTLY. He has lost to 3 in his career with Heisman-caliber players. So let's not act like he is playing with average joes, even if it is not in the SEC.  Again, I think he was a great coach for the Big 12, but I don't think he would be as successful in the SEC. 

EDIT: My apologies 64, I was way too abrasive in this response.

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5 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

The whole reason Franklin was here was because Gus didn't trust Sean, and that whole Clemson debacle was a result of Gus not believing that his players were capable of lining up against Clemson and beating them in the game of football. That mentality surfaced against UGA, too. And not everybody says they love playing for him. Stanton Truitt certainly didn't. 

I totally don't buy that Franklin was here because he didn't trust Sean. I believe Gus was convinced (how he was convinced is still a mystery... if it was a subtle convincing or a do it or else) that he had to go with a dual threat QB and replicate the 2013 offense. 

The Clemson debacle was because he spent far too long trying to make the Franklin project work and he didn't have a solid QB.  Think about it... it took 3 more games for Sean and the O-line to gel (thanks in part to an injury that reshuffled the line).  Sean wasn't ready until LSU, and I blame a lot of that on too much effort in the off-season going to John.

I still don't buy the UGA coaching thing. That game was all about QBs.  John proved against Vandy that he just couldn't do it, and Sean's shoulder went from serviceable to limp noodle as the game went on. There was no "line up and play football" to be done with no QB and no lead back at 100%. Sure, the fact that we were basically a 1 QB team is on Gus for not recruiting someone better than John, but I can't name a coach who could have overcome those odds from the sideline.

I don't know what Truitt's issue was, but I read, time after time, from both players and recruits, that they absolutely love Gus. 

12 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

No clue about "distancing himself" (Lion didn't say that, someone else did), but recruits hear the family atmosphere stuff from current players as much as they hear it from the coaches. They see it when they visit. They have a different experience on our campus than they do on others. All the position coaches have their units over to their houses regularly. 

The easiest way to address the "distancing himself" thing is to look at all of the pictures of the different units at his house. Most of the ones we see posted here are those. If you want to talk a coach who distances himself, look across the state. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that players have to make an appointment to even see Saban's face of the practice field.

14 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

I have some problems with some football things that have happened, but I'm highly impressed with how Gus has managed things off the field.

So much this!

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5 hours ago, AU64 said:

 Spoken by the guy who did not miss five puttts of less than 10 feet yesterday. :nopityA:

damn 64 I'm guessing they weren't all for birdies????

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1 hour ago, I_M4_AU said:

Can somebody please photo shop a six pack of PBR resting in that belly?

A frickin 6 pack are you nuts we're talking a case big man

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45 minutes ago, augolf1716 said:

damn 64 I'm guessing they weren't all for birdies????

Nope....but one was...and two for boogie..:angry:

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1 hour ago, DAG said:

So let's try to use comprehension next time . I never disregarded what he did in the big 12 or OU. I said I don't want him at AU. We play in an entirely different league where for an extended period of time was considered the most dominant. Stoops, who has had overwhelming talent has found ways time and time again to lose at OU against much inferior talent. I don't want to go through that at AU. So , if Gus was to get fired, no I would not want stoops, who at AU would not just overwhelmingly get the best recruits and face maybe 1 legit title contender annually.

I'm fine with you not liking stoops. I am not tore up about it . It's a message board. We have different opinions. Man I am in a good mood . Your line about comprehension. Come on dude. We are on the same team Dag. 

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1 hour ago, DAG said:

 

The point is that in the big 12 OU was consistently 1 or 2 in recruiting rankings. So, yes if you are recruiting that well in the big 12 every freaking year, then it should not come as a surprise that you are able to be very successful in the big 12 annually. As much as I love AU, in the SEC, with any given year we could have a top 15 recruiting class and be no 4 or 5 among SEC teams. Think about that? Bob Stoops, with overwhelming talent, is losing to none power, 5 teams. CONSISTENTLY. He has lost to 3 in his career with Heisman-caliber players. So let's not act like he is playing with average joes, even if it is not in the SEC.  Again, I think he was a great coach for the Big 12, but I don't think he would be as successful in the SEC. 

EDIT: My apologies 64, I was way too abrasive in this response.

not a problem ....but one other point.....Texas has kicked their butts in recruiting year in and year out and Stoops has probably gotten at least two UT coaches fired because they could not beat him often enough....that's gotta be worth something. Other than that OU is mostly a top 10-15 recruiting class....good but not outstanding.

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8 hours ago, auburn4ever said:

If Gus looses to Georgia and Alabama again...

I have a hard time putting a lot of stock in the opinion of someone that doesn't know the difference between "loose" and "lose." You're college educated?

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2 hours ago, lionheartkc said:

I totally don't buy that Franklin was here because he didn't trust Sean. I believe Gus was convinced (how he was convinced is still a mystery... if it was a subtle convincing or a do it or else) that he had to go with a dual threat QB and replicate the 2013 offense. 

The Clemson debacle was because he spent far too long trying to make the Franklin project work and he didn't have a solid QB.  Think about it... it took 3 more games for Sean and the O-line to gel (thanks in part to an injury that reshuffled the line).  Sean wasn't ready until LSU, and I blame a lot of that on too much effort in the off-season going to John.

I still don't buy the UGA coaching thing. That game was all about QBs.  John proved against Vandy that he just couldn't do it, and Sean's shoulder went from serviceable to limp noodle as the game went on. There was no "line up and play football" to be done with no QB and no lead back at 100%. Sure, the fact that we were basically a 1 QB team is on Gus for not recruiting someone better than John, but I can't name a coach who could have overcome those odds from the sideline.

I don't know what Truitt's issue was, but I read, time after time, from both players and recruits, that they absolutely love Gus. 

The easiest way to address the "distancing himself" thing is to look at all of the pictures of the different units at his house. Most of the ones we see posted here are those. If you want to talk a coach who distances himself, look across the state. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that players have to make an appointment to even see Saban's face of the practice field.

So much this!

Again we will have to disagree.  IN SO MANY AREAS.  All we had to do was line up and run the ball against Georgia and we would have won.  All we had to do was have some sort of offensive plan against Clemson and we had that game won.  All we had to do was have a plan to use Franklin's qualities to the best and we would have not had to play a wounded duck qb....  All Gus had to do was leave his offensive coordinator alone and quit changing out the WR every time he took over playcalling....  It was all there last year...  Sorry  i love Gus Malzhan, but last year was a fiasco

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