NCAA Looking at Changing Transfer Rules

[Barnacle 9,064]

24 minutes ago, WDE_OxPx_2010 said:

I agree, but this is why I think they are whining, which is the respond I had for which you said had no reason. They (often) aren't appreciating the opportunity they have to get an education for being athletic. Most of the time, in my opinion, there is very little tangible return to society for their gift unlike those of us who go to school for the education.

 

I'm also the son of a teacher, so sport salaries is already a sore subject for me when military, police/fire, and teachers get paid crap. I lump this in with that. Take your free education and be grateful for it.

I agree that many players probably don't appreciate the opportunity to get an education. However, we need to appreciate the fact that many of these kids are gifted with an opportunity than none of us can truly appreciate. Anyone in the United States can educate themselves - at any point in their life, whether it be online, in a library or in school. That's literally a personal decision. On the other hand, the vast majority of us will NEVER have an opportunity, or come close to an opportunity to play professional football. Like an education, that opportunity is life changing and potentially generation-changing. Unlike an education, there is only one route to get there - and that's CFB. 

So, I don't really hold it against these kids if they don't fully appreciate the "opportunity" they have been given - a free education. They only have one shot to make it to the NFL, and if there is another school that can give these kids an opportunity to make that happen, then I believe they should be allowed to accept that opportunity without a coach taking that opportunity away from them, based upon whatever the hell the coach wants. Again, they all have to sit out a year, regardless of where they go. 

There probably are plenty of kids like AJ, who want to transfer because they didn't want to put in the work, or they are lazy, or whatever it might be. But I'm not going to use him to illustrate the rule, when there are other kids who aren't lazy, or aren't bad teammates or "problem players." There are kids with 3rd round talent who go to big schools, with competitive depth charts, and get beat out by future 1st round draft picks. I'm not going to look at that kid and tell him, "sorry kid, might as well ride the bench and enjoy this free education," when we both know that he has a special opportunity outside of his current school.

Now, if his coach restricts him from schools "x,y and z" he might be able to still get to the league at another school, but that's not a decision I think coaches should be making for the player. The coach doesn't have to provide a reason for a restriction - and let's be honest, no one is stopping these coaches from placing restrictions to other schools that they don't like, or to coaches they don't like. That's personal to the coach, and it might not be in the best interest of the player. 

All that being said, I understand conference restrictions. I can live with those - as long as kids know when they sign with Auburn, or Alabama, or whoever it might be, that should they desire to transfer, they must go out of conference. But, restricting out of conference, having an ability to place any restriction upon any player to any school at will - no way. 

[Barnacle 9,064]

2 minutes ago, DAG said:

You know what?! I do agree with you to an extent. I think for all conferences, a player should have to sit out if they are transferring to another school within that same conference no matter what. I also think they should have to sit out a year if they transfer to a school who is on their previous team upcoming schedule. That is probably as far as it should go for me.

See, I don't have a problem with the 1 year sit-out. I think it should apply to all transfers everywhere. 

[DAG 33,979]

1 minute ago, Barnacle said:

See, I don't have a problem with the 1 year sit-out. I think it should apply to all transfers everywhere. 

Originally, I was all for Gus blocking tOSU school, but not so much anymore. I think there should at least be some implication for schools being blocked. tOSU thing just seemed to be tad bit personal, although, I hear the kid wasn't very graceful here and by his post responses, I tend to believe that.

[Barnacle 9,064]

7 minutes ago, DAG said:

Originally, I was all for Gus blocking tOSU school, but not so much anymore. I think there should at least be some implication for schools being blocked. tOSU thing just seemed to be tad bit personal, although, I hear the kid wasn't very graceful here and by his post responses, I tend to believe that.

Oh, okay. Yeah, I think I was misunderstanding you. When I say I think that 1 year sit-outs should apply everywhere, I mean - these kids don't have eligibility for one season. So for instance, if Gus didn't restrict AJ from going to OSU, AJ would still have to sit a year out from playing football. But, he would be allowed to receive scholarship money from OSU. 

I think that all transfers should have to spend one year, whether under scholarship with another school or not, without eligibility to play. I DO NOT agree that coaches should be able to restrict players like AJ from accepting scholarships from schools like OSU. 

On the other hand, if the SEC wants to decide as a conference, not to allow player transfers between SEC schools (maybe excepting circumstances that are already exempt from eligibility restrictions - like for Austin Golson), then I'm okay with that as an SEC policy. That is, so long as players know that when they sign with an SEC school. 

I don't care how lazy a kid is. If Ohio State thinks enough of them to offer them a full scholarship, that kid should be able to accept the scholarship. 

[augolf1716 21,109]

Good discussion

[DAG 33,979]

39 minutes ago, Barnacle said:

Oh, okay. Yeah, I think I was misunderstanding you. When I say I think that 1 year sit-outs should apply everywhere, I mean - these kids don't have eligibility for one season. So for instance, if Gus didn't restrict AJ from going to OSU, AJ would still have to sit a year out from playing football. But, he would be allowed to receive scholarship money from OSU. 

I think that all transfers should have to spend one year, whether under scholarship with another school or not, without eligibility to play. I DO NOT agree that coaches should be able to restrict players like AJ from accepting scholarships from schools like OSU. 

On the other hand, if the SEC wants to decide as a conference, not to allow player transfers between SEC schools (maybe excepting circumstances that are already exempt from eligibility restrictions - like for Austin Golson), then I'm okay with that as an SEC policy. That is, so long as players know that when they sign with an SEC school. 

I don't care how lazy a kid is. If Ohio State thinks enough of them to offer them a full scholarship, that kid should be able to accept the scholarship. 

Ahhh okay yeah that makes sense.

[boisnumber1 2,818]

2 hours ago, Barnacle said:

 

Let's say you did receive a full academic scholarship in a science, and communicated with another school about the possibility of transferring. They just received a research grant in your area of interest, and they want to offer you a full scholarship to attend their school. You think this is the best school for your situation, and so you request a transfer. Your current institution responds by restricting you from receiving any financial aid at the new school, and a number of other competing schools. That's the analogy. 

You left out "terrible and downright silly" before the word analogy.

[DAG 33,979]

8 minutes ago, boisnumber1 said:

You left out "terrible and downright silly" before the word analogy.

[Barnacle 9,064]

21 minutes ago, boisnumber1 said:

You left out "terrible and downright silly" before the word analogy.

How's that? That's exactly what is happening. Athlete is offered a scholarship to another school and his primary school prevents him from accepting it. 

[boisnumber1 2,818]

10 minutes ago, Barnacle said:

How's that? That's exactly what is happening. Athlete is offered a scholarship to another school and his primary school prevents him from accepting it. 

Im not gonna get into it. If you're not bright enough to see how ridiculous it is to compare an athletic and academic scholarship, it's not worth my time.

[Barnacle 9,064]

5 minutes ago, boisnumber1 said:

Im not gonna get into it. If you're not bright enough to see how ridiculous it is to compare an athletic and academic scholarship, it's not worth my time.

Haha alright man. Sorry for wasting your time! 

[Barnacle 9,064]

8 minutes ago, DAG said:

But in your scenario, why would a school offer a student a scholarship for science, if he couldn't even take part in the major for a full year?

My point is that students can transfer to another school and accept a scholarship there without being prevented from doing so. 

[Barnacle 9,064]

3 minutes ago, DAG said:

But my question is, why would a school just give a scholarship to someone just to sit. And no, this is not the same as an RS. 

That's what schools are already doing, in football. 

[Barnacle 9,064]

8 minutes ago, DAG said:

What school is just giving a player money, KNOWING they will not be able to play at all that year? Especially with scholarship limits, this doesn't seem to be in the interest of the school. A player not getting PT is not the same thing, as there is always a chance for them to play. Someone RS is equally not the same scenario as they can remove the RS at any time need be. Not to mention, they are now looking to allow RS to play up to 4 games without losing their eligibility. I imagine the players would love this deal, but I can't see too many schools being okay with it.

This happens all the time. 

[Barnacle 9,064]

1 minute ago, DAG said:

A school giving someone a scholarship, to not play? That happens all the time. There are definitely schools who offer scholarships to provide depth, knowing they may need that player to step up to play. Schools giving scholarships understanding that a kid might not be ready to play at that moment, but I can't think of a scenario where a school will just offer a scholarship to someone who is ineligible to see the field by NCAA standards. Not all the time.

http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/19743938/florida-gators-enroll-pair-transfers-malik-zaire-jake-fruhmorgen

Common may be better than "all the time." 

[DAG 33,979]

3 minutes ago, Barnacle said:

http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/19743938/florida-gators-enroll-pair-transfers-malik-zaire-jake-fruhmorgen

Common may be better than "all the time." 

But Malik is eligible to play this fall

The other guy has to sit out. I don't know if he is on an athletic scholarship.

[Gowebb11 9,314]

Here's a scenario, just for fun. A lot of schools offer merit scholarships for transfer students. Suppose the player transferring  competed for one of these scholarships and got it. Then he decided to walk on to the football team. Can his previous coach then override the academic scholarship commitee at another school and still block the transfer? 

 

[DAG 33,979]

Just now, Gowebb11 said:

Here's a scenario, just for fun. A lot of schools offer merit scholarships for transfer students. Suppose the player transferring  competed for one of these scholarships and got it. Then he decided to walk on to the football team. Can his previous coach then override the academic scholarship commitee at another school and still block the transfer? 

 

I think that would be a good route, TBH. If he can academically get his schooled paid for one year..why not? Surely, he would get an athletic scholarship next year.

[AU64 10,122]

9 minutes ago, DAG said:

I think that would be a good route, TBH. If he can academically get his schooled paid for one year..why not? Surely, he would get an athletic scholarship next year.

As I understand, even players who have to sit out a year are allowed to practice with the team...but not play.  But consider the two basketball players transferring to AU who have to sit out a season.  

Does anyone think either of those kids is not on some kind of scholarship for the year they are not playing ?   Didn't I see that one of them signed his "financial aid" agreement in the past couple days.    This kills the argument made above about schools not giving scholarships for a guy to not play because it's done all the time...   . http://www.al.com/auburnbasketball/index.ssf/2017/06/vcu_transfer_samir_doughty_off.html#incart_river_index   

And as for how much we spend to recruit and take care of a kid at AU....do you really think anyone is adding up the cost when they encourage some guy to find a school where he might be more successful or happier ?     

We all know that that "coach speak" about doing it for the kids is frequently BS and stuff like this just confirms it in my view.  This is pretty much a one way street right now and I'm happy to see it change.  

[DAG 33,979]

23 minutes ago, AU64 said:

As I understand, even players who have to sit out a year are allowed to practice with the team...but not play.  But consider the two basketball players transferring to AU who have to sit out a season.  

Does anyone think either of those kids is not on some kind of scholarship for the year they are not playing ?   Didn't I see that one of them signed his "financial aid" agreement in the past couple days.    This kills the argument made above about schools not giving scholarships for a guy to not play because it's done all the time...   . http://www.al.com/auburnbasketball/index.ssf/2017/06/vcu_transfer_samir_doughty_off.html#incart_river_index   

And as for how much we spend to recruit and take care of a kid at AU....do you really think anyone is adding up the cost when they encourage some guy to find a school where he might be more successful or happier ?     

We all know that that "coach speak" about doing it for the kids is frequently BS and stuff like this just confirms it in my view.  This is pretty much a one way street right now and I'm happy to see it change.  

5

Financial aid doesn't always equate to an athletic scholarship. Some of this guys are flat out eligible for financial aid. Two distinctive things. Many D-2 and D-3 recruits sign financial aid agreements that have absolutely nothing to do with a full-blown athletic scholarship. In fact, D3 schools can't even offer scholarships. Some of these financial aid agreements don't cover nearly enough like a scholarship does.

[AU64 10,122]

1 minute ago, DAG said:

Financial aid doesn't always equate to an athletic scholarship. Some of this guys are flat out eligible for financial aid. Two distinctive things.

Good point...so do we know how many guys we have on scholarship? and I'm thinking that it is unlikely that some non-athetic financial aid package would cover anywhere near as much as a scholarship. I guess he is classed as a walk-on though nothing indicates that.

He's not on the published roster yet and it's hard for me to know who is actually on scholarship these days.

[DAG 33,979]

1 minute ago, AU64 said:

Good point...so do we know how many guys we have on scholarship? and I'm thinking that it is unlikely that some non-athetic financial aid package would cover anywhere near as much as a scholarship. I guess he is classed as a walk-on though nothing indicates that.

He's not on the published roster yet and it's hard for me to know who is actually on scholarship these days.

It depends. He could be eligible for certain loans and grants. That can cover your tuition for a year until you get your athletic scholarship.

[DAG 33,979]

Just now, ellitor said:

I'm a fan and can have any opinion I damn well please just as you can. What he deserves is relevant to my opinion if I want it to be because I'm a fan & not the rule maker or enforcer.. As a fan I sure can evaluate it on a case by case basis if I want but I made it crystal clear at the end of my post i was not evaluating it on a case by case basis. Transfers in any sport leave a roster spot that can't be filled in the current season at his or her position so I believe every transfer should have to sit a season for that reason regardless of sport. I have proven the rest of your post irrelevant to my POV so I am not going to bother responding to it. I like you a lot Banracle but never ever disrespect me again by telling me what I can or can't do or think. I'm not your child & will not be treated as such. Have a good night & War Eagle!

[Gowebb11 9,314]

A potential irony of this whole situation is that AJ wanted to transfer to an out of conference school. Now he is at a JUCO that sits just a few miles from an SEC West rival. If he were to sign with the Aggies, he will be competing against us. Crazy times in college football. 

[Barnacle 9,064]

20 minutes ago, ellitor said:

I'm a fan and can have any opinion I damn well please just as you can. What he deserves is relevant to my opinion if I want it to be because I'm a fan & not the rule maker or enforcer.. As a fan I sure can evaluate it on a case by case basis if I want but I made it crystal clear at the end of my post i was not evaluating it on a case by case basis. Transfers in any sport leave a roster spot that can't be filled in the current season at his or her position so I believe every transfer should have to sit a season for that reason regardless of sport. I have proven the rest of your post irrelevant to my POV so I am not going to bother responding to it. I like you a lot Banracle but never ever disrespect me again by telling me what I can or can't do or think. I'm not your child & will not be treated as such. Have a good night & War Eagle!

Hey brother, check your PM. So sorry - defenitely NOT what I intended.