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WarTiger

2017 Football Rules and Interpretations

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5 minutes ago, WarTiger said:

Here's another example of why you shouldn't listen to announcers when it comes to rule interpretations.

Just happened in the South Carolina/Tennessee game.  Don't remember who had the ball but they throw a pass down the sideline, flag for pass interference.  Replay shows the defender holding the WR by the jersey for at least 3-5 yards.  Ball in the air and the announcer says that it should be holding and not pass interference.    Clearly the announcer has no idea that a hold of an eligible wide receiver with the ball in the air is ALWAYS pass Interference and always has been.   If the pass had never been thrown it would have been a defensive holding penalty.  But because the ball was in the air, and the pass was beyond the neutral zone,  its always pass interference.  

This can’t be, the announcer was non other then Tubbs.

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Is there any way to create a penalty for players faking injury?  After watching the player from Arky this last week, I just think they have to do something where this is limited.

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14 hours ago, lkeel75 said:

Is there any way to create a penalty for players faking injury?  After watching the player from Arky this last week, I just think they have to do something where this is limited.

No written rule but this statement in the injury section of the rule book:

b. To curtail a possible time-gaining advantage by feigning injuries,
attention is directed to the strongly worded statement in The Football
Code (Coaching Ethics).

And here is the statement in the code of ethics

g. Feigning an injury for any reason is unethical. An injured player
must be given full protection under the rules, but feigning injury is
dishonest, unsportsmanlike and contrary to the spirit of the rules.
Such tactics cannot be tolerated among sportsmen of integrity.

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What are the rules regarding timeouts and injuries? Do teams ever lose timeouts for an injury?

It seems like I remember this being the case for some domain but can’t remember if it was NFL or dependent on time remaining in a half or something.

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7 hours ago, djg0017 said:

What are the rules regarding timeouts and injuries? Do teams ever lose timeouts for an injury?

It seems like I remember this being the case for some domain but can’t remember if it was NFL or dependent on time remaining in a half or something.

No. Teams never lose timeouts due to an Injury, however at the college level there is this provision:

If the player injury is the only reason for stopping the clock (other than
his or a teammate’s helmet coming off, Rule 3-3-9) with less than one
minute in the half, the opponent has the option of a 10-second runoff.

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On ‎10‎/‎25‎/‎2017 at 6:39 AM, WarTiger said:

No written rule but this statement in the injury section of the rule book:

b. To curtail a possible time-gaining advantage by feigning injuries,
attention is directed to the strongly worded statement in The Football
Code (Coaching Ethics).

And here is the statement in the code of ethics

g. Feigning an injury for any reason is unethical. An injured player
must be given full protection under the rules, but feigning injury is
dishonest, unsportsmanlike and contrary to the spirit of the rules.
Such tactics cannot be tolerated among sportsmen of integrity.

It would have to be pretty blatant (as it's tough to prove that a player was feigning an injury), but it seems as though a 15-yard Unsportsmanlike Conduct penalty could be assessed against the injury-feigning player.  

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On 10/30/2017 at 10:07 AM, triangletiger said:

It would have to be pretty blatant (as it's tough to prove that a player was feigning an injury), but it seems as though a 15-yard Unsportsmanlike Conduct penalty could be assessed against the injury-feigning player.  

If you do that, you are putting a huge burden of proof on the officials to know for certain that he's feigning an injury to gain an advantage.  As an official, I'm not ever going to make that kind of ruling.   That would just never end well for anybody.

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Just happened in the Clemson/North Carolina state game.  Clemson returning a punt and they return it for a touchdown, but the officials missed a block below the waist on Clemson.   It occurred deep in N C State territory, but it should have been flagged.   Blocking below the waist is ILLEGAL on any and all kicks, whether its a free kick or a scrimmage kick.    It's a touchdown that Clemson should not have scored [at least not on the return].     It clearly impacted the play.   Here's the rule on it.

c. Kicks. During a down in which there is a free kick or scrimmage kick,
blocking below the waist by any player is illegal except against a ball
carrier.

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13 hours ago, WarTiger said:

If you do that, you are putting a huge burden of proof on the officials to know for certain that he's feigning an injury to gain an advantage.  As an official, I'm not ever going to make that kind of ruling.   That would just never end well for anybody.

Yeah, that’s kinda what I was thinking.  With so emphasis on player safety these days, to do something that could be seen as being contrary to holding player safety of utmost importance would not be a good way to go.

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When aTm punted the ball into the back of their own blocker, shouldn't we have gotten the ball at that spot since that is where they first touched it, instead of near mid field?

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NO.  Touching by K behind the neutral zone is ignored.  In order for the ball to go to the spot of the touching by the kicking team it has to be touched by the kicking team beyond the neutral zone.

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If the punt drops (past the LOS) and hits off a player of the kicking team first, is the ball always placed at that spot? Or are there any exceptions/situations where that’s not the case?

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https://mobile.twitter.com/Tyler_Greever/status/926997612028481537/video/1

OK WT, what was the call in the USM / Tennessee game where the defender was penalized for jumping straight up in an attempt to block a FG?  He didn't jump over anybody nor did he land on anybody.  What and where is the rule that was enforced?  

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1 hour ago, djg0017 said:

If the punt drops (past the LOS) and hits off a player of the kicking team first, is the ball always placed at that spot? Or are there any exceptions/situations where that’s not the case?

Always? NO.  Yes, there are exceptions and I believe there's a play in this thread already that covers this, but I'll go through it again.  The ball is still live.   It's a rule that likely very few even know exists and few take advantage of.  

So, let's set the play up.    4th and 8, kicking team in scrimmage kick (punt) formation at their own 40 yard line.   Kick crosses the neutral zone in flight and is grounded at the receiving teams 35.  The ball hits off a K player at the receiving teams 30 and continues to roll toward the goal line.   A member of the receiving team picks it up at their own 25 and advances the ball.   #33 advances the ball out to his own 40 yard line where he fumbles the ball.  The kicking team recovers the fumble.   Who's ball is it and why?  

Answer.  The ball would belong to the receiving team 1st. and 10 at their own 30 yard line.  Why?  Since K touched the ball at the 30, it gives the receiving team the option to advance the ball without penalty/consequence.   Meaning they can take the results of the play (when its over) or come back to the spot of the ILLEGAL TOUCHING and start their series from there.   So, say the receiving team doesn't fumble, but advances it for a score.  Touchdown for the receiving team.  In the play outlined above, since the receiving team fumbled the ball and did not recover it, they can elect the spot of the  Illegal touching and maintain possession.   So, it would be first and 10 at their own 30 yard line. 

Like I said, its a rule that most don't even know exists and I guarantee any announcer would likely butcher any kind of explanation and probably say they don't know why the ball is coming back to the 30 yard line.  K clearly recovered the fumble.

Here's the rule on it:  Rule 6.3.2

Beyond the Neutral Zone
ARTICLE 2. a. No inbounds player of the kicking team shall touch a
scrimmage kick that has crossed the neutral zone before it touches an
opponent. Such illegal touching is a violation that, when the ball becomes
dead, gives the receiving team the privilege of taking the ball at the spot
of the violation
(Exception: Rule 6-3-4) (A.R. 2-12-2-I and A.R. 6-3-2-I).
b. This privilege is canceled if there is an accepted penalty for a live-ball
foul by either team (A.R. 6-3-2-I-IV, A.R. 6-3-11-I-III and A.R. 10-1-
4-VII).
c. The privilege is canceled if there are offsetting fouls.
d. Illegal touching in Team A’s end zone is ignored.

Notice it says WHEN the ball becomes dead.   Something else to go along with this.  Touching the kick does NOT end the actual kick.  A kick is not ended until its possessed by a player whether its the receiving team or the kicking team.

In the above play I set up, if K actually caught the ball, then its dead where he caught it.  Does this help?

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50 minutes ago, around4ever said:

https://mobile.twitter.com/Tyler_Greever/status/926997612028481537/video/1

OK WT, what was the call in the USM / Tennessee game where the defender was penalized for jumping straight up in an attempt to block a FG?  He didn't jump over anybody nor did he land on anybody.  What and where is the rule that was enforced?  

I saw that on another forum.   I have absolutely no idea what the calling official saw or thought he saw.  There was nothing illegal there at all, in fact, not even close.   It wouldn't surprise me at all if that official is reprimanded for that.   That was an inexcusable mistake.   I would love to know what the Referee told him for an explanation.  He had to really BS his way out of that one.  They screwed that up.

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21 minutes ago, WarTiger said:

Always? NO.  Yes, there are exceptions and I believe there's a play in this thread already that covers this, but I'll go through it again.  The ball is still live.   It's a rule that likely very few even know exists and few take advantage of.  

So, let's set the play up.    4th and 8, kicking team in scrimmage kick (punt) formation at their own 40 yard line.   Kick crosses the neutral zone in flight and is grounded at the receiving teams 35.  The ball hits off a K player at the receiving teams 30 and continues to roll toward the goal line.   A member of the receiving team picks it up at their own 25 and advances the ball.   #33 advances the ball out to his own 40 yard line where he fumbles the ball.  The kicking team recovers the fumble.   Who's ball is it and why?  

Answer.  The ball would belong to the receiving team 1st. and 10 at their own 30 yard line.  Why?  Since K touched the ball at the 30, it gives the receiving team the option to advance the ball without penalty/consequence.   Meaning they can take the results of the play (when its over) or come back to the spot of the ILLEGAL TOUCHING and start their series from there.   So, say the receiving team doesn't fumble, but advances it for a score.  Touchdown for the receiving team.  In the play outlined above, since the receiving team fumbled the ball and did not recover it, they can elect the spot of the  Illegal touching and maintain possession.   So, it would be first and 10 at their own 30 yard line. 

Like I said, its a rule that most don't even know exists and I guarantee any announcer would likely butcher any kind of explanation and probably say they don't know why the ball is coming back to the 30 yard line.  K clearly recovered the fumble.

Here's the rule on it:  Rule 6.3.2

Beyond the Neutral Zone
ARTICLE 2. a. No inbounds player of the kicking team shall touch a
scrimmage kick that has crossed the neutral zone before it touches an
opponent. Such illegal touching is a violation that, when the ball becomes
dead, gives the receiving team the privilege of taking the ball at the spot
of the violation
(Exception: Rule 6-3-4) (A.R. 2-12-2-I and A.R. 6-3-2-I).
b. This privilege is canceled if there is an accepted penalty for a live-ball
foul by either team (A.R. 6-3-2-I-IV, A.R. 6-3-11-I-III and A.R. 10-1-
4-VII).
c. The privilege is canceled if there are offsetting fouls.
d. Illegal touching in Team A’s end zone is ignored.

Notice it says WHEN the ball becomes dead.   Something else to go along with this.  Touching the kick does NOT end the actual kick.  A kick is not ended until its possessed by a player whether its the receiving team or the kicking team.

In the above play I set up, if K actually caught the ball, then its dead where he caught it.  Does this help?

Yes, thank you! It seems extremely advantageous for the return team, but you’re right, I bet it’s rarely used.

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New play.  Major props to the replay official in the Ole Miss / Texas A&M game.  The replay official just stopped the game to review a potential targeting foul.   The curious thing to me about the play is when the Referee announced the penalty after replay confirmed it, he announced it as a blind side block and gave no official signal, just stood there and called it a blind side block and that #28 is ejected.     The part that stands out to me is that he called it a blind side block and not targeting.  The NCAA doesn't have a rule in place for a blind side block.   There is a blind side block penalty in high school that started this year, but Blind side block is legal [as of now] in the NCAA.  There is a penalty for an unnecessary hit and for a defenseless player, but not a blind side block.  What he should have said was Personal Foul, targeting.   That would be a penalty for a blind side block in high school, but that was targeting under ncaa rules.  Under high school rules a blind side block does not carry an ejection.     Very poor explanation by the Referee on that call.  Call was right, the explanation of it was way wrong.

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