Stidham 2015 Passing Chart (Baylor)

[aujeff11 6,243]

2 hours ago, DAG said:

Based on what? Because he can run and throw a little? You are being a huge hypocrite right now if that is the case.  If you look at his stats, NM was in the bottom half of QBs in the SEC in about every stat when it came to passing in 2013. In the SEC.

Yeah but we also had games like Tennessee when we broke teams will and only had to pass the ball 6 times while doing so. NM couldn't build up his stats. He also couldn't go Johnny Football and total five hundred yards passing and running against the "Rice" level teams because he was dinged up both cupcake games. 

[DAG 33,955]

4 minutes ago, aujeff11 said:

NM wasn't very accurate at the intermediate stuff but he was a threat at passing the ball. Because of this: he was so good at taking the top off of defenses that he hadn't to keep the defenses honest. And whether you're keeping the defenses honest by nickel and dining, or by throwing the deep ball accurately, the same outcome is achieved: keeping the defenses on the heels for the other threat, the running game. He threw for over 300 against Moo State and 455 against Bama after all. He also made a clutch slant pass on 4th and 9 against FSU to Sammie acoates when we were losing late in the fourth quarter. Put simply, his passing abilitie were effective, just not efficient. 

3

NM had an arm. a very good arm. However, he also was aided in 2013 in regards to defensive schemes. There was a lot of man outside, allowing for one on one coverage with his receivers. Many teams schemed to stop the run, no matter what (as they should) rather allowing AU to beat them by the pass. This allowed for Sammie Coates and Duke in 2014 to go up and get the ball. Two major plays in NM's game, the slant and the fade route. Yes, it was effective for the scheme that we ran. That is all you could ask for, still, if we are considering whether he was a dual threat QB, first and foremost, you have to be an efficient passer. This is the crux, which separates a true DT v. an athlete. NM was a great athlete and it shows. He was drafted as a CB/KR in the NFL, despite being absent at this position for two years. 

[AU64 10,122]

14 minutes ago, DAG said:

NM had an arm. a very good arm. However, he also was aided in 2013 in regards to defensive schemes. There was a lot of man outside, allowing for one on one coverage with his receivers. Many teams schemed to stop the run, no matter what (as they should) rather allowing AU to beat them by the pass. This allowed for Sammie Coates and Duke in 2014 to go up and get the ball. Two major plays in NM's game, the slant and the fade route. Yes, it was effective for the scheme that we ran. That is all you could ask for, still, if we are considering whether he was a dual threat QB, first and foremost, you have to be an efficient passer. This is the crux, which separates a true DT v. an athlete. NM was a great athlete and it shows. He was drafted as a CB/KR in the NFL, despite being absent at this position for two years. 

Seems this ought to work both ways....if a guy is a true DT quarterback he ought to do more with his legs than just make 6 yards on a broken play and then hit the dirt...which is what we will probably see this year ...JMO 

Not saying I mind that decision.....better than getting drilled unexpectedly by a 240 pound LB.

[DAG 33,955]

7 minutes ago, AU64 said:

Seems this ought to work both ways....if a guy is a true DT quarterback he ought to do more with his legs than just make 6 yards on a broken play and then hit the dirt...which is what we will probably see this year ...JMO 

Not saying I mind that decision.....better than getting drilled unexpectedly by a 240 pound LB.

That is the point I am trying to make. Thank you. If you aren't going to consider JS as a DT-QB on the basis that you consider him inefficient with his running based on his stats, then how in the same breath can you reference NM as such? However, I will say that you NEED to be an efficient passer first. I mean, frankly speaking, you are playing QB. The ability to evade defenders and use your feet as a weapon is a plus, not a necessity.

[AU64 10,122]

1 minute ago, DAG said:

That is the point I am trying to make. Thank you. If you aren't going to consider JS as a DT-QB on the basis that you consider him inefficient with his running based on his stats, then how in the same breath can you reference NM as such?

Seems to me that NM was pretty adept either way....enough of a threat with his arm to be dangerous...and that was without any truly reliable WRs...just look at who he was passing to and think about all the dropped passes.....and of course he had running backs who were in the 1600 -1800 yards per season along with him. 

I guess there is a DT somewhere out there who achieves pretty equal results but with Gus's view of offense, it's gonna be ground game first as long as he has healthy RBs.

[bigbird 60,368]

2 hours ago, DAG said:

See this is where you and many people fail. Being a running threat don't just mean you are a true DT QB. NM was an ATHLETE. Huge difference. To be a DT QB, you have to be a threat at passing and running . 

[DAG 33,955]

Just now, AU64 said:

Seems to me that NM was pretty adept either way....enough of a threat with his arm to be dangerous...and that was without any truly reliable WRs...just look at who he was passing to and think about all the dropped passes.....and of course he had running backs who were in the 1600 -1800 yards per season along with him. 

I guess there is a DT somewhere out there who achieves pretty equal results but with Gus's view of offense, it's gonna be ground game first as long as he has healthy RBs.

1

To you? Yes. To the professionals who do this for a living? No. Otherwise, he would've been drafted as a QB, right? Either way, we are getting way off track. Agree to disagree.

[WFE12 9,191]

2 hours ago, aucanucktiger said:

As I posted befire todays scrimmage, he stares down receivers. He looks off receivers well most of the time sure, but lock onto a receiver blatantly now and then and it's pick 6 time. Look, it's early, he's rusty, he'll be ready to go game one. I'm just saying, it ain't subtle when he does it.

Yeah I gotcha...That stuff takes time to master but he'll get it.

[CleCoTiger 1,957]

On 8/6/2017 at 8:38 PM, AU64 said:

No...just wondering....he got to be the starter for a reason...looked better before he was playing.

When he was healthy I thought he looked pretty darn good at QB.  He ran the offense he was asked to run, and when he was asked to pass (largely on third down, often on third and long) he was very efficient and completed a very high percentage of his passes.  Do not underestimate the moxy and ability of Sean White.  A lot of what passes for message board conventional wisdom where White is concerned strikes me as very unwise.

[CleCoTiger 1,957]

On 8/6/2017 at 8:52 PM, fredst said:

I have zero knowledge, just an opinion. However, if JS is not the shoe-in a lot of people think my hopes and expectations for the season just went way down.

Why?

[fredst 9,064]

15 minutes ago, CleCoTiger said:

Why?

Because with the expectations I have for JS at QB I think our ceiling is pretty high. I like SW, think he's a "gamer",but have seen the limitations we have on offense with him at the helm and don't expect that to have changed in the off-season; add his fragility to the mix and I wouldn't be optimistic to see much improvement over the results from past two years. I thought how aggressively the staff pursued JS was pretty telling about their thoughts on the QB position as well. Again, JMO.

[Scotty2Hotty 520]

5 hours ago, DAG said:

See this is where you and many people fail. Being a running threat don't just mean you are a true DT QB. NM was an ATHLETE. Huge difference. To be a DT QB, you have to be a threat at passing and running . 

Who holds the #1 all-time single game passing school record?

Who holds the #2 all-time single season QB rushing school record?

[DAG 33,955]

35 minutes ago, Scotty2Hotty said:

Who holds the #1 all-time single game passing school record?

Who holds the #2 all-time single season QB rushing school record?

You aren't worth debating. Get your stats up a little. Levels to this forum life.

 

[CleCoTiger 1,957]

2 hours ago, fredst said:

Because with the expectations I have for JS at QB I think our ceiling is pretty high. I like SW, think he's a "gamer",but have seen the limitations we have on offense with him at the helm and don't expect that to have changed in the off-season; add his fragility to the mix and I wouldn't be optimistic to see much improvement over the results from past two years. I thought how aggressively the staff pursued JS was pretty telling about their thoughts on the QB position as well. Again, JMO.

I don't get the expectations for Stidham this year any more than I did the expectations for JFIII last year.  And no, we have not seen the limitations with SW at QB. We saw the limitations of a QB playing within the offense he was asked to run.  And the whole fragility argument is baseless as well. Did he get hurt? Yup.  And guess what? So did Stidham at Baylor.  Injuries happen. It doesn't mean a player is "fragile."  And as far as the hot pursuit of Stidham, it was pretty dang clear last season that there was no one really behind SW capable of coming in and leading the team. AU needed another QB.  The whole "Stidham was brought in to start" line is just a repeat of 23's line on JFIII last season. If I thought Malzahn had decided a player who had never been on the field for him was the starter before he ever saw him compete in practice was the starter, I'd be with the folks that think Malzahn should be fired.

If Stidham wins it, fine. But despite what some here seem to "know", Sean White can slap spin it.  He just wasn't in an offense that asked him to last year. But when he was tasked on third and long (which was usually when we threw), he delivered at a high rate. Again and again and again. Will he win the job? Dang if I know. But I don't count him out. And I don't count my chickens before they hatch with Stidham.

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,641]

On 8/6/2017 at 7:50 PM, AU_Dungeon_Master said:

The question is:  Does Sean White really have arm strength issues or is that just a myth that is kept alive on message boards?Sure he might not have the strongest arm but couldn't the lack of throwing downfield have been an issue with the offense being predictable combined with mediocre pass blocking?  When defenses know what you're going to run in has to be difficult on the offense and make everything that much harder.  Think about 2003...that was the same team we had in 2004, one offense was terrible and the other was very impressive, the difference was bringing Al Borges in and getting a more new perspective.  Maybe Chip Lindsey will be able to accomplish same thing plus getting Borges as an analyst has got to help.  

The guy put his entire body to complete some of those 30-40? yard passes in the last regulation drives against Clemson and Arkansas...I think a hard limit for him throwing a semi-pinpoint ball is hovering somewhere around 40....as the other guy said, JF3 came in and flicked a few 40+ yard beauties in his short time. They gave Sean 2 or 3 attempts a game but I don't know how many that were completed actually looked pretty. But as far as short-intermediate, he's really your guy 

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,641]

Not trying to interfere, but NM certainly finished his career as a threat to pass the ball...you can ask Alabama, Kansas State, Wisconsin, LSU, 4 defenses that had talented pieces on the back end 

Nick basically went pass for pass with Jameis (a heisman winner in case you forgot) an actual offensive staff with actual passing plays, and a NFL-caliber offense but now he wasn't a threat to pass? .....okay 

If you gave Nick the receivers we have now instead of Sammie (who did have a great one trick admittedly), Ricardo Louis and Marcus Davis in 2014, it would've been quite a sight to see. Quan and Duke really played above their heads that year, but we have receivers now who can do what they did and more receivers who can be counted on not to be hurt 40% of the season or just not be very good (in relation to the earlier 3 names).

[fredst 9,064]

6 hours ago, CleCoTiger said:

I don't get the expectations for Stidham this year any more than I did the expectations for JFIII last year.  And no, we have not seen the limitations with SW at QB. We saw the limitations of a QB playing within the offense he was asked to run.  And the whole fragility argument is baseless as well. Did he get hurt? Yup.  And guess what? So did Stidham at Baylor.  Injuries happen. It doesn't mean a player is "fragile."  And as far as the hot pursuit of Stidham, it was pretty dang clear last season that there was no one really behind SW capable of coming in and leading the team. AU needed another QB.  The whole "Stidham was brought in to start" line is just a repeat of 23's line on JFIII last season. If I thought Malzahn had decided a player who had never been on the field for him was the starter before he ever saw him compete in practice was the starter, I'd be with the folks that think Malzahn should be fired.

If Stidham wins it, fine. But despite what some here seem to "know", Sean White can slap spin it.  He just wasn't in an offense that asked him to last year. But when he was tasked on third and long (which was usually when we threw), he delivered at a high rate. Again and again and again. Will he win the job? Dang if I know. But I don't count him out. And I don't count my chickens before they hatch with Stidham.

Ok. We'll agree to disagree.

[Scotty2Hotty 520]

12 hours ago, DAG said:

You aren't worth debating. Get your stats up a little. Levels to this forum life.

 

Does this mean you won't answer? Or admitting you were incorrect?

[Scotty2Hotty 520]

12 hours ago, CleCoTiger said:

I don't get the expectations for Stidham this year any more than I did the expectations for JFIII last year.

Then you just don't get it.

The decision to announce Stidham as a starter has been a foregone conclusion since December of last year. The announcement will simply be a formality. 

You're one of the few that isn't getting it.  

[DAG 33,955]

19 minutes ago, Scotty2Hotty said:

Does this mean you won't answer? Or admitting you were incorrect?

Look up the concept of sample size. That would disintegrate your whole position.

That is all you get

[Scotty2Hotty 520]

11 minutes ago, DAG said:

Look up the concept of sample size. That would disintegrate your whole position.

That is all you get

A single SEASON is a sample size?

Just admit Marshall was a phenomenal dual threat QB and you'll feel a lot better. And smarter.

[DAG 33,955]

48 minutes ago, Scotty2Hotty said:

A single SEASON is a sample size?

Just admit Marshall was a phenomenal dual threat QB and you'll feel a lot better. And smarter.

You referenced a single game, correct? Now a smart person would investigate and see how much he averaged throughout the season. 195 yards per game..hmmm. Well, let's see how many games other than the one you referenced did he throw over 400 yards? Zero. Well, how many other games did he throw over  300 yards? Oh, zero again. Well, how about over 250 yards? Oh, just one. What conclusion would you make off that? Or do I also have to dumb this down in a practical sense as well? If we plotted that on a graph and made a bell curve that one game would be termed an "outlier."

 

[bigbird 60,368]

35 minutes ago, Scotty2Hotty said:

A single SEASON is a sample size?

Just admit Marshall was a phenomenal dual threat QB and you'll feel a lot better. And smarter.

[ValleyTiger 2,894]

Happy Birthday from your #AuburnFamily, @Jarrett_Stidham!

???#WarEagle pic.twitter.com/KbFwa1awNq

— Auburn Football (@AuburnFootball) August 8, 2017

 

[DAG 33,955]

35 minutes ago, Scotty2Hotty said:

A single SEASON is a sample size?

Just admit Marshall was a phenomenal dual threat QB and you'll feel a lot better. And smarter.

He was a phenomenal player, yes. However, NM would disagree with you about a portion of your statement or else he wouldn't have decided by his own doing to switch positions.  Again, we are off track again. Easy work