Mothball the Confederate Monuments

[AUDub 11,131]

From this ultra-liberal rag:

Quote

It’s time to put them where they belong — museums and cemeteries.

Robert E. Lee wasn’t a Nazi, and surely would have had no sympathy for the white-supremacist goons who made his statue a rallying point in Charlottesville, Va., last weekend.

That doesn’t change the fact that his statue is now associated with a campaign of racist violence against the picturesque town where Thomas Jefferson founded the University of Virginia. The statue of Lee was already slated for removal by the city, but the Battle of Charlottesville should be an inflection point in the broader debate over Confederate statuary.

The monuments should go. Some of them simply should be trashed; others transmitted to museums, battlefields, and cemeteries. The heroism and losses of Confederate soldiers should be commemorated, but not in everyday public spaces where the monuments are flashpoints in poisonous racial contention, with white nationalists often mustering in their defense.

Some discrimination is in order. There’s no reason to honor Jefferson Davis, the blessedly incompetent president of the Confederacy. New Orleans just sent a statue of him to storage — good riddance. Amazingly enough, Baltimore has a statue of Chief Justice Roger Taney, the author of the monstrous Dred Scott decision, which helped precipitate the war. A city commission has, rightly, recommended its destruction.

Robert E. Lee, on the other hand, is a more complicated case. He was no great friend of slavery. He wrote in a letter to his wife “that slavery as an institution, is a moral & political evil in any Country” (he added, shamefully, that it was good for blacks — “the painful discipline they are undergoing, is necessary for their instruction as a race”). After the war, he accepted defeat and did his part to promote national healing.

 

Yet, faced with a momentous choice at the start of the war, he decided he was a Virginia patriot rather than an American nationalist. He told one of President Abraham Lincoln’s advisers: “I look upon secession as anarchy. If I owned the four million slaves in the South I would sacrifice them all to the Union; but how can I draw my sword upon Virginia, my native state?” He betrayed the U.S. government and fought on the side devoted to preserving chattel slavery.
 

That is a grievous political sin, although he obviously wasn’t the only one guilty of it. The Civil War was an American conflict, with Americans on both sides. An honorable soldier, Lee is an apt symbol for the Confederate rank and file whose sacrifices in the war’s charnel house shouldn’t be flushed down the memory hole.

 

The Baltimore commission has called for moving a striking dual statue of Lee and Stonewall Jackson to the Chancellorsville, Va., battlefield where the two last met before Jackson’s death. This would be appropriate, and would take a page from the Gettysburg battlefield. A statue of Lee commemorates Virginia’s losses and overlooks the field where General George Pickett undertook his doomed charge. If you can’t honor Robert E. Lee there, you can’t honor him anywhere.

 

For some of the Left, that’s the right answer, but this unsparing attitude rejects the generosity of spirit of the two great heroes of the war, Abraham Lincoln and Ulysses S. Grant. Notably, Grant vehemently opposed trying Lee for treason.

 

For supporters of the Confederate monuments, removing them from parks and avenues will be a blow against their heritage and historical memory. But the statues have often been part of an effort to whitewash the Confederacy. And it’s one thing for a statue to be merely a resting place for pigeons; it’s another for it to be a fighting cause for neo-Nazis.

 

Lee himself opposed building Confederate monuments in the immediate aftermath of the war. “I think it wiser,” he said, “not to keep open the sores of war, but to follow the examples of those nations who endeavoured to obliterate the marks of civil strife and to commit to oblivion the feelings it engendered.” After Charlottesville, it’s time to revisit his advice.

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/450470/charlottesville-virignia-robert-e-lee-statue-remove-right-decision-confederate-monuments-museums

[alexava 6,973]

I think we should leave the damn monuments alone. I don't love the monuments. I don't visit them. I don't care if they stay or go. I did care about the confederate flag and supported its removal from government properties. The reasons are numerous. The monuments are not the same. It's just a way to keep the divisiveness stoked. People need to learn how to leave " good enough" alone. These half wits that still live in the fictitious past can't take much more. Hell they need something to "cling " to. Let them keep the low road. They own it. We won on the flag. Now retire and let the monuments stay for everybody's sake. 

[aujeff11 6,243]

I saw a video of a Durham NC confederate monument being brought down yesterday by a mob of mostly white teenagers. The teenagers took turns kicking it, flicking it off, and other childish things and I'm just like wow. We can bring it down but who is in charge of this unorganized and petty rebellion? They never even thought about the thing until Dylan Roof. 

All of these protests seem kinda irrational and whimsical tbh. People just fighting to be fighting. Not purpose driven, and goals for "justice" could've been satisfied with a sturdy punching bag. 

I would love to see real organized rebellion fighting for a common goal. MLK like. 

 

Edit, just to complicate the platform of the loose rebellion of the mob in Durham, the girl that tied the rope to the statue was arrested. The previous boys of the gray weren't the only reason why she toppled the statue. 

"Moments earlier, Thompson had been arguing that today’s police are agents of white supremacy—in a lineage with Confederate soldiers, and in an alliance with the Ku Klux Klan.

“The statue in Durham, North Carolina, said ‘to the boys who wore the gray,’” she said. “If we understand history, we know that those boys who wore the gray, today they wear blue, and they wear sheets over their heads.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/537015/

The video:

https://mobile.twitter.com/DerrickQLewis/status/897235297485901825/video/1

[alexava 6,973]

You said "fighting to be fighting " and I agree 100%. These folks need to get a damn job or hobby or something. Working 6-7 days a week raising 2 kids, wife works and finishing bachelor degree and remodeling home as investment. Ain't got time to destroy a monument or give a damn it exists.  Hell I am building a privacy fence the little a**holes can come help me and learn something. I furnish water Gatorade and beer. Maybe hotdogs too. 

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

9 minutes ago, alexava said:

You said "fighting to be fighting " and I agree 100%. These folks need to get a damn job or hobby or something. Working 6-7 days a week raising 2 kids, wife works and finishing bachelor degree and remodeling home as investment. Ain't got time to destroy a monument or give a damn it exists.  Hell I am building a privacy fence the little a**holes can come help me and learn something. I furnish water Gatorade and beer. Maybe hotdogs too. 

But the question is, what kind of beer?

[Strychnine 1,802]

17 minutes ago, alexava said:

You said "fighting to be fighting " and I agree 100%. These folks need to get a damn job or hobby or something. Working 6-7 days a week raising 2 kids, wife works and finishing bachelor degree and remodeling home as investment. Ain't got time to destroy a monument or give a damn it exists.  Hell I am building a privacy fence the little a**holes can come help me and learn something. I furnish water Gatorade and beer. Maybe hotdogs too. 

 

You lost me at the scourge that is hotdogs.

[augolf1716 21,096]

54 minutes ago, alexava said:

You said "fighting to be fighting " and I agree 100%. These folks need to get a damn job or hobby or something. Working 6-7 days a week raising 2 kids, wife works and finishing bachelor degree and remodeling home as investment. Ain't got time to destroy a monument or give a damn it exists.  Hell I am building a privacy fence the little a**holes can come help me and learn something. I furnish water Gatorade and beer. Maybe hotdogs too. 

I'm a great manager of people.......hotdogs are fine with me

[AUFAN78 3,890]

Many of my colleagues, friends and loved ones want them to come down. They have valid reasons and I support the movement. 

[alexava 6,973]

48 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

But the question is, what kind of beer?

Anything the Chevron around the corner carries. If they can't drink Coors Light. 

[alexava 6,973]

41 minutes ago, Strychnine said:

 

You lost me at the scourge that is hotdogs.

Pizza?

[Strychnine 1,802]

Just now, alexava said:

Pizza?

 

Bratwurst.  Or smoked sausage chili dogs.

[alexava 6,973]

My offer goes to either side. Or hell, " many sides, many many sides". I think we can all get along. 

[alexava 6,973]

1 minute ago, Strychnine said:

 

Bratwurst.  Or smoked sausage chili dogs.

Done. I do great brats. The best brats you've ever had. 

[Strychnine 1,802]

Just now, alexava said:

Done. I do great brats. The best brats you've ever had. 

 

I doubt that, but I would gladly sample.

[augolf1716 21,096]

1 minute ago, alexava said:

Done. I do great brats. The best brats you've ever had. 

I'm there

[Strychnine 1,802]

Incidentally, brats make fantastic chili dogs too.

[alexava 6,973]

1 hour ago, Strychnine said:

 

I doubt that, but I would gladly sample.

If we manage to make a game this year we can all try to congregate at a tailgate. 

[Strychnine 1,802]

13 minutes ago, alexava said:

If we manage to make a game this year we can all try to congregate at a tailgate. 

 

At some point, we should definitely organize such a thing.

[TitanTiger 20,471]

15 hours ago, alexava said:

I think we should leave the damn monuments alone. I don't love the monuments. I don't visit them. I don't care if they stay or go. I did care about the confederate flag and supported its removal from government properties. The reasons are numerous. The monuments are not the same. It's just a way to keep the divisiveness stoked. People need to learn how to leave " good enough" alone. These half wits that still live in the fictitious past can't take much more. Hell they need something to "cling " to. Let them keep the low road. They own it. We won on the flag. Now retire and let the monuments stay for everybody's sake. 

They don't belong on public property any more than the Confederate flag did.  Move the monuments to museums, historic battlefield exhibits, cemeteries and the like. 

[aujeff11 6,243]

1 hour ago, TitanTiger said:

They don't belong on public property any more than the Confederate flag did.  Move the monuments to museums, historic battlefield exhibits, cemeteries and the like. 

[AUDub 11,131]

Baltimore removed several overnight. St. Petersburg removed a confederate plaque.  Birmingham covered one in Linn Park with plywood, as it's illegal to yank it down thanks to Kay Ivey.

[SaturdayGT 719]

Why not build new statues of Great African Americans in history to go along side these confederate statues?  I think it would be a great symbol of strength during such suppressing times, and a testament to how far things have come.

[alexava 6,973]

2 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

They don't belong on public property any more than the Confederate flag did.  Move the monuments to museums, historic battlefield exhibits, cemeteries and the like. 

Then do it quietly. Legally. Over time. Don't give these hateful imbeciles motivation to recruit more hateful imbeciles. We really are dealing with a dangerous mixture of anger and stupid. You can't keep rattling their cages and not expect blow back. It's similiar to PBO not using the term " Islamic terrorist " he knows it's correct but isn't necessary and will create more of the same problem. For the sake of tact, diplomacy,peace be tolerant of the hate and ignorance because you are just making it worse. 

[TitanTiger 20,471]

Just now, alexava said:

Then do it quietly. Legally. Over time. Don't give these hateful imbeciles motivation to recruit more hateful imbeciles. We really are dealing with a dangerous mixture of anger and stupid. You can't keep rattling their cages and not expect blow back. It's similiar to PBO not using the term " Islamic terrorist " he knows it's correct but isn't necessary and will create more of the same problem. For the sake of tact, diplomacy,peace be tolerant of the hate and ignorance because you are just making it worse. 

That's what these towns are trying to do.  Aside from a few instances like what happened in Durham, the cities in question are working through their city councils and such to remove them legally and in order.  What made it "noisy" and dangerous were the hateful imbeciles coming to protest it.

[DKW 86 7,411]

On 8/15/2017 at 0:31 PM, Bigbens42 said:

From this ultra-liberal rag:

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/450470/charlottesville-virignia-robert-e-lee-statue-remove-right-decision-confederate-monuments-museums

That is a completely sane view of all of this. Put the statues where they belong. In Cemeteries, museums and battlefields.