Mothball the Confederate Monuments

[homersapien 11,354]

19 hours ago, Strychnine said:

 

At some point, we should definitely organize such a thing.

Only if the police can keep us separated.    

[AUFAN78 3,890]

https://consortiumnews.com/2017/08/17/president-trumps-white-blindness/

[aujeff11 6,243]

Jefferson knew slavery was wrong. I don't know how to quote articles yet but he said:

"But, as it is, we have the wolf by the ear, and we can neither hold him, nor safely let him go. Justice is in one scale, and self-preservation in the other"

With that said, in some of his speeches and letters, you could tell he was absolutely racist. One letter I remember he said the slaves were born with a natural stench and that their bodies were abnormal to white people. 

[autigeremt 6,570]

I used to be torn with it because I have direct bloodlines that were spilled at Gettysburg. Of course I was much younger back then. My relatives are buried in a war memorial cemetery in North Carolina and I have no problem relocating these statues to such places because A: I agree with Lee that we shouldn't have created them and 2: most were erected to create division via Jim Crowe. 

I've seen other monuments defaced (Lincoln and Washington) in recent days and that is something I do not support.

[Mims44 1,865]

21 hours ago, aujeff11 said:

Jefferson knew slavery was wrong. I don't know how to quote articles yet but he said:

"But, as it is, we have the wolf by the ear, and we can neither hold him, nor safely let him go. Justice is in one scale, and self-preservation in the other"

With that said, in some of his speeches and letters, you could tell he was absolutely racist. One letter I remember he said the slaves were born with a natural stench and that their bodies were abnormal to white people. 

That's not uncommon for the times. Lincoln was a staunch abolitionist... but was also 100% racist as hell.

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

Really insightful read from the NYT that also includes quotes from an AU grad who happens to be a leading white nationalist in Alabama.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/in-monument-debate-calls-for-an-overdue-reckoning-on-race-and-southern-identity/ar-AAqji0h?li=AA4ZnC&ocid=spartandhp

[DKW 86 7,413]

11 hours ago, Brad_ATX said:

Really insightful read from the NYT that also includes quotes from an AU grad who happens to be a leading white nationalist in Alabama.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/in-monument-debate-calls-for-an-overdue-reckoning-on-race-and-southern-identity/ar-AAqji0h?li=AA4ZnC&ocid=spartandhp

 

Quote

 

“It was in hard-core decline,” said Heidi Beirich of the Southern Poverty Law Center, which monitors neo-Confederate activities. “Even on the fringes of the radical right, the Southern nationalist cause was waning.” Agree with this.

Then in 2015, a Confederate-sympathizing white supremacist, Dylann S. Roof, murderednine black churchgoers in Charleston, S.C. In a dramatic reaction, South Carolina removedthe Confederate battle flag from the State House grounds altogether, weeks after Alabama’s governor ordered four flags removed outside the State Capitol in Montgomery. Calls went up for the removal of other relics of Confederate memory, including the battle flag’s place in the corner of the Mississippi state flag, and major retailers, including Walmart, stopped selling merchandise that included the battle flag.

The backlash was swift. Membership in the Sons of Confederate Veterans spiked, and large pro-flag demonstrations crowded the grounds of Southern state capitols. The rallying cry was still mostly focused on heritage, but a new and more incendiary faction had begun to emerge.

Starting in the early 2010s, a growing number of young, openly white nationalist Southerners began joining Southern nationalist organizations, primarily the Alabama-based League of the South. Mr. Griffin, an Auburn University graduate   who had become radicalized by books and in online forums that had little to do with the Confederacy, was among them.

 

Can we please just stop with "Yea...But.."s? If you know anything about the real history of the so-called "battle flag" it was nothing of the sort. It is a morphed version of a CSNavy Battle Jack that was square. The "CBF" if it was ever used was only used in the waning months of the CW and it likely NEVER saw a victory other than on CSN Ship. It is not about "heritage."

Griffin is a douche. (Would almost bet a KA.) He does not represent my University in any way. Screw him.

[homersapien 11,354]

11 hours ago, Brad_ATX said:

Really insightful read from the NYT that also includes quotes from an AU grad who happens to be a leading white nationalist in Alabama.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/in-monument-debate-calls-for-an-overdue-reckoning-on-race-and-southern-identity/ar-AAqji0h?li=AA4ZnC&ocid=spartandhp

Great.  They just had to mention he is an Auburn grad.  

[alexava 6,973]

Here is another "insightful " read. This is the first written article I have seen by him. Check out his videos:" The Liberal Redneck," Trae Crowder

http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/news/a57184/confederate-statue-removal-reasons/

[MDM4AU 330]

On 8/18/2017 at 11:00 PM, DKW 86 said:

 

Can we please just stop with "Yea...But.."s? If you know anything about the real history of the so-called "battle flag" it was nothing of the sort. It is a morphed version of a CSNavy Battle Jack that was square. The "CBF" if it was ever used was only used in the waning months of the CW and it likely NEVER saw a victory other than on CSN Ship. It is not about "heritage."

Griffin is a douche. (Would almost bet a KA.) He does not represent my University in any way. Screw him.

Flying the "Confederate Flag" with some sort of "honor" is not much different than flying the Union Jack. It can be argued that both represent oppression of Americans and also "countries" defeated in battle. 

[DKW 86 7,413]

32 minutes ago, MDM4AU said:

Flying the "Confederate Flag" with some sort of "honor" is not much different than flying the Union Jack. It can be argued that both represent oppression of Americans and also "countries" defeated in battle. 

Big difference. The "Union Jack" is actually a rectangular flag used for hundreds of years. It is a battle flag used in guidons and on a RN ship, on the mast head.

The CBF was a only a CSNavy "Jack." It was never flown from a mast head. It was only flown from the bow or stern of steamships like the CSS Tennesse, CSS Virginia, etc. A Navy "Jack" is like a decoration or Secondary Identifier in combat flown ONLY from the smaller Bow (rarely from the stern) poles. It is never flown from the masthead.. 

USN Jacks:

So you see, the CBF was actually never used as a Battle Flag until the very very last days of the war when it was completely over but the surrender.

[ArgoEagle 1,767]

On ‎8‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 5:59 PM, alexava said:

You said "fighting to be fighting " and I agree 100%. These folks need to get a damn dead gum job or hobby or something. Working 6-7 days a week raising 2 kids, wife works and finishing bachelor degree and remodeling home as investment. Ain't got time to destroy a monument or give a damn it exists.  Hell I am building a privacy fence the little a**holes can come help me and learn something. I furnish water Gatorade and beer. Maybe hotdogs too. 

Yes, yes, yes. Nailed it!

[alexava 6,973]

3 minutes ago, ArgoEagle said:

Yes, yes, yes. Nailed it!

That goes for the nazis too

[ArgoEagle 1,767]

Just now, alexava said:

That goes for the nazis too

Agree, but we are smack in the middle of the Entitlement Generation. Kid's mindsets are I have the right to go to a protest or tear down a statue that was erected hundreds of years before I was born, but  you don't have the right to ask me to work for a living and support myself.

[alexava 6,973]

31 minutes ago, ArgoEagle said:

Agree, but we are smack in the middle of the Entitlement Generation. Kid's mindsets are I have the right to go to a protest or tear down a statue that was erected hundreds of years before I was born, but  you don't have the right to ask me to work for a living and support myself.

Not sure about that. I just know even when I agree with a sentiment that turns into a protest I don't have time to burn on it. These stupid statues are so off the damn radar to people who have a life it's ridiculous. Those protesters on both sides have no life. Maybe  one side has  a hateful misdirected life. 

[homersapien 11,354]

21 hours ago, ArgoEagle said:

Agree, but we are smack in the middle of the Entitlement Generation. Kid's mindsets are I have the right to go to a protest or tear down a statue that was erected hundreds of years before I was born, but  you don't have the right to ask me to work for a living and support myself.

WTF?

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

22 hours ago, ArgoEagle said:

Agree, but we are smack in the middle of the Entitlement Generation. Kid's mindsets are I have the right to go to a protest or tear down a statue that was erected hundreds of years before I was born, but  you don't have the right to ask me to work for a living and support myself.

Remember, Baby Boomers raised this current "entitlement generation" of which you speak.  These are learned behaviors.  Kids didn't ask for participation trophies growing up.  Their parents demanded that everyone be a winner and that everyone is special, which just isn't the case.  (P.S.  I grew up at the start of this trend.  Hated it then when I was a kid.  Hate it now.)

Also, much of the younger generation now is driving innovation and new jobs, particularly in the tech sector.  Pretty dumb to say they don't have to work or support themselves, when in fact they are taking on mountains of debt to get a college education, which you basically need now in order to snag a decent entry level gig somewhere.

[ArgoEagle 1,767]

On ‎8‎/‎26‎/‎2017 at 10:34 AM, Brad_ATX said:

Remember, Baby Boomers raised this current "entitlement generation" of which you speak.  These are learned behaviors.  Kids didn't ask for participation trophies growing up.  Their parents demanded that everyone be a winner and that everyone is special, which just isn't the case.  (P.S.  I grew up at the start of this trend.  Hated it then when I was a kid.  Hate it now.)

Also, much of the younger generation now is driving innovation and new jobs, particularly in the tech sector.  Pretty dumb to say they don't have to work or support themselves, when in fact they are taking on mountains of debt to get a college education, which you basically need now in order to snag a decent entry level gig somewhere.

Yes there are young people who do either go to college or get a job after they get out of high school, but there are also useless slugs like these who need to get jobs or be in school instead of trying to make protests the main focus of their lives. This is an excuse they use for many of them not to be productive in society and to drain their parents  of their hard earned money so they can be sorry and not work or go to school. This is what Alex and I were referring to.

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

57 minutes ago, ArgoEagle said:

Yes there are young people who do either go to college or get a job after they get out of high school, but there are also useless slugs like these who need to get jobs or be in school instead of trying to make protests the main focus of their lives. This is an excuse they use for many of them not to be productive in society and to drain their parents  of their hard earned money so they can be sorry and not work or go to school. This is what Alex and I were referring to.

In other news, old people shake fist at the sky.  Some in the younger generation not doing much is nothing new.  Hippies did the same thing in the 60s.  Mostly, those people are older, conservative voters now.

And my argument was against your point about the entitlement generation you so easily dismissed.  They're only entitled because their parents made it so.  Frank Martin, head basketball coach at South Carolina, laid it out perfectly back in March:

“You know what makes me sick to my stomach? When I hear grown people say that kids have changed. Kids haven’t changed. Kids don’t know anything about anything We’ve changed as adults. We demand less of kids. We expect less of kids. We make their lives easier instead of preparing them for what life is truly about. We’re the ones that have changed. To blame kids is a cop-out.”