unfair to criticize Gus for not developing HS QBs

[gr82b4au 5,568]

It seems unfair to criticize Gus for not developing HS QBs

Hear me out.

I just looked at the top 10 HS QBs (overall) for every year back to 2010. During that time period we have had 1 (one) quarterback in the overall top ten rankings and that was in 2011 - Kiehl Frazier. He had a million offers and did not pan out. But the others - White, Jeremy Johnson, T Queen, Woody Barrett - outside the top 10. These guys were not the best of the QBs in their classes as far as rankings. As a matter of fact, in almost every case we REALLY wanted and were recruiting another QB but came in second or third - like with Deshaun Watson, Deondre Francois, or Shea Patterson. In most cases we ended up with QBs that were ok, still rated a 4 star (or 3 star in some cases), but not the ones we really we after. Uga, uat, Fsu, Oh St, Usc, Ucla... they are recruiting the top 10 QBs. And they are winning with them (most of the time anyway). 

My point - we seem to get our backup plan, but we need to get our first choice. Hopefully that will happen this year. 

OK - let me have it. 

[DAG 33,977]

Life is full of things unfair. How you respond is what matters . How CGM responds this year is critical to say the least :

and btw , most schools do not get their first choice . Most . Not everyone can bring in the 5 star QB.

[jAUSon 2,836]

You listed Gus's QB's. Almost none of those really worked out.

[corchjay 5,311]

Gus isn't any different then any other coach that has a QB bust.  It's about a 50 percent rate for all coaches.  Saban Urban Petrino all of them.  The problem has been that Gus had a horrible defense for all except last year.  The UGA game is totally on Gus.  The Clemson game plan totally on Gus.  

[milehighfan 1,240]

I guess most all of us thought JJ would be more than able to handle the job as starting QB. When it became apparent JJ was not da man, that is when Gus' reputation as a QB GURU took more than a few hits

 

[WarEagle1983 2,185]

I agree that his average regarding QBs that busts are probably about the same as most coaches. However, what i do fault Gus for unlike most other coaches regarding our QB situation is not being able to learn from his mistakes quickly and having too much pride to understand that if he can't develop QBs that he needed to get someone who could (OC) or allowing our guys to get outside help from those that could help them improve. As a HC you have to do what is best for the TEAM and understand your weaknesses. A good coach is not made/told that it's probably not a good idea to trot 3-4 QBs into a game. A good coach that understands his weakness shouldn't have to be told that maybe you need to turn over the offense or you're likely not going to have a job if the same continues.

Gus has had to rely on QB transfers to fix those shortcomings. I for one never thought of Gus as being a coach with exceptional ability to develop a QB b/c he never was anywhere long enough to show that he could do so. However, i did believe when we hired him he was highly capable of being a coach that could take either a Pro Style or DT QB and have the ability to create a dynamic offense around that QB. I thought he was very creative and innovative as an OC. 

I'm not sure why he's all of sudden had a brain fart as a HC. I still think he is capable of running a good offense that but for some reason, he can't get out of his own head. For the past 3 years of so i just can't understand why he has been so stubborn and refused to adjust his offense when needed.  Hopefully, he's gotten on the right track but it would've made feel a little better about him if he wasn't forced to do so b/c his job is on the line. 

[Barnacle 9,064]

18 minutes ago, corchjay said:

Gus isn't any different then any other coach that has a QB bust.  It's about a 50 percent rate for all coaches.  Saban Urban Petrino all of them.  The problem has been that Gus had a horrible defense for all except last year.  The UGA game is totally on Gus.  The Clemson game plan totally on Gus.  

I agree with all of this. But, I do hold Gus responsible for not having enough quality depth at the quarterback position last season. Certainly, you can't help things like injuries (see Tyler Queen) but we had absolutely no quality depth at the position. We knew coming into the season that Barrett would be a project and JJ had a myriad of issues, leaving us with Sean White and JFIII. In other words, it was Sean or nothing. And, to start the season, Gus wasn't even confident enough in Sean to hand him the keys, as evidenced by the Clemson debacle. 

I've never been in his position, so I don't want to criticize unfairly, but I don't know how you get to the place we were going into last season. From my standpoint as a fan, its unacceptable. Thankfully, the depth chart looks significantly more promising going into this season.

[WarEagle1983 2,185]

27 minutes ago, corchjay said:

Gus isn't any different then any other coach that has a QB bust.  It's about a 50 percent rate for all coaches.  Saban Urban Petrino all of them.  The problem has been that Gus had a horrible defense for all except last year.  The UGA game is totally on Gus.  The Clemson game plan totally on Gus.  

Most of Bama's QB's are average at best and yes they do have the defense to hide those deficiencies but they also do a great job of putting their QBs in great position to win the game. Petrino does as well. Lamar passing is not as good as Hurts IMO but he still won the Heisman. Petrino found ways to put him in good passing situations even though he's not one of the best passing QBs in CFB. Same thing with Hurts. The better QB coaches understand how to put their QB in the best position to execute. This is something i think Gus is capable of but didn't maximize with certain QBs that were not Nick or Cam. 

[Guest WarEagleSteve]

43 minutes ago, corchjay said:

Gus isn't any different then any other coach that has a QB bust.  It's about a 50 percent rate for all coaches.  Saban Urban Petrino all of them.  The problem has been that Gus had a horrible defense for all except last year.  The UGA game is totally on Gus.  The Clemson game plan totally on Gus.  

Something I think also bears mentioning is that Gus, as a head coach at least, has never been particularly adept at adjusting his passing scheme to enable a limited quarterback to succeed in his offense. His track record seems to indicate that his approach is either you can run the offense (Cam, Nick, Chris Todd) or you can't (JJ, JFIII, the 2011 revolving door, even SW at times) and if you can't, he doesn't have either the ability or the desire to tailor the playcalling/scheme to what you CAN do. He just retreats into his little shell and leans on the running game and the (at times nonexistent) defense and hopes for the best. The Georgia and Alabama games the last two years are the best examples of this. 

[Barnacle 9,064]

2 minutes ago, WarEagle1983 said:

Most of Bama's QB's are average at best and yes they do have the defense to hide those deficiencies but they also do a great job of putting their QBs in great position to win the game. Petrino does as well. Lamar passing is not as good as Hurts IMO but he still won the Heisman. Petrino found ways to put him in good passing situations even though he's not one of the best passing QBs in CFB. Same thing with Hurts. The better QB coaches understand how to put their QB in the best position to execute. This is something i think Gus is capable of but didn't maximize with certain QBs that were not Nick or Cam. 

Another thing to be thankful for this season is the health of Malik Miller. When we had the run game going last season, I don't know that I could say Gus wasn't putting Sean in the best position to execute. It just so happened that the "best position" for Sean was behind Pettway and Johnson running the ball 50 times a game. But, as we all saw, we didn't have the depth at RB to sustain that kind of strategy. This season we will. Miller is healthy and it looks like Barrett will be able to handle carries between the tackles, which will take a whole lot of carries and pressure from of RB1 and RB2. That being said, Sean is no longer our starting quarterback, and I believe we are all hoping to see at least a slight decrease in dependence on the run game. 

If you take our offense against Arkansas last season, insert a little more balance, including a bonafide threat to push the ball downfield in the passing game and a couple more fresh legs to run it -- that's what we will have the potential to do. We put up 56 in that game. Something to consider.

[WarEagle1983 2,185]

7 minutes ago, Barnacle said:

Another thing to be thankful for this season is the health of Malik Miller. When we had the run game going last season, I don't know that I could say Gus wasn't putting Sean in the best position to execute. It just so happened that the "best position" for Sean was behind Pettway and Johnson running the ball 50 times a game. But, as we all saw, we didn't have the depth at RB to sustain that kind of strategy. This season we will. Miller is healthy and it looks like Barrett will be able to handle carries between the tackles, which will take a whole lot of carries and pressure from of RB1 and RB2. That being said, Sean is no longer our starting quarterback, and I believe we are all hoping to see at least a slight decrease in dependence on the run game. 

If you take our offense against Arkansas last season, insert a little more balance, including a bonafide threat to push the ball downfield in the passing game and a couple more fresh legs to run it -- that's what we will have the potential to do. We put up 56 in that game. Something to consider.

Agree. I certainly think we did do a better job of putting Sean in good situations this past season. The year before.....def. not. But that's been another flaw of Gus lately...not having our backup ready to go. I don't expect our backup to be world beaters but we looked completely lost with Sean when JJ didn't work out. I felt like that year we did a huge disservice to Sean. I thought he could've looked much better than he was if we were more prepared. 

Goes back to what several have stated already that it often takes Gus several games to realize what he has at QB and to tailor it. I certainly understand most teams don't have it figured out game one or two on offense but we seem to be way off in understanding what works best for us early on. Have a feeling that's all behind us now with Chip...certainly hope so. 

[auburnphan 6,050]

Gus does not know how to develop a qb.  He can teach a qb how to play in his system.  Two major distinctions.  When it comes to fundamentals of the QB position, there is very little progress.  When it comes to knowledge of the offense there is clear improvement.  I really think it is that simple.

[Barnacle 9,064]

Just now, WarEagle1983 said:

Agree. I certainly think we did do a better job of putting Sean in good situations last year. The year before.....def. not. But that's been another flaw of Gus lately...not having our backup ready to go. I don't expect our backup to be world beaters but we looked completely lost with Sean when JJ didn't work out. I felt like that year we did a huge disservice to Sean. I thought he could've looked much better than he was if we were more prepared. 

Goes back to what several have stated already that it often takes Gus several games to realize what he has at QB and to tailor it. I certainly understand most teams don't have it figured out game one or two on offense but we seem to be way off in understanding what works best for us early on. 

Thankfully, we've got a quarterback in Stidham who's been here through the spring and summer. We've got a fresh perspective in Chip Lindsey. We've got a soft opener. 

I do try and forget how bad of a situation Sean was thrust into two seasons ago. Another instance of Gus not having the right amount of depth at the position, sure, but I got the feeling like a lot of others that Gus was convinced that his Plan A would take as as far as we wanted and that Sean wouldn't ever need to be counted on. I mean, JJ could have been a world-beater and gotten hurt, but it was like Gus was so convinced of Johnson's prowess that he never actually envisioned and therefore never prepared for what transpired. 

[Barnacle 9,064]

3 minutes ago, auburnphan said:

Gus does not know how to develop a qb.  He can teach a qb how to play in his system.  Two major distinctions.  When it comes to fundamentals of the QB position, there is very little progress.  When it comes to knowledge of the offense there is clear improvement.  I really think it is that simple.

Something to be thankful for: Stidham has excellent fundamentals. He also cares deeply about doing the small things right. So does CCL. 

[djg0017 726]

Related to QB fiascos, God forbid Jarrett goes down... but say he does, what do you suggest we do?

Also, how do you feel about playing Malik? (regardless of injuries)

[WarEagle1983 2,185]

I'd be pretty surprised if SW doesn't go in if JS goes down. I understand the excitement for Malik but i think it's going to be really hard for Gus not to play SW if JS goes down. I'm really hoping we get them both some garbage playing time against the lesser teams so we would have a better idea who would come in behind JS. 

[Barnacle 9,064]

2 minutes ago, djg0017 said:

Related to QB fiascos, God forbid Jarrett goes down... but say he does, what do you suggest we do?

Also, how do you feel about playing Malik? (regardless of injuries)

It depends. I know thats a crap answer, but it really does. It depends on how serious JS's injuries are. It depends on where we are in the season, who we play next and what our record is. It depends on how well Malik continues to progress and what condition White is in. 

Without personal knowledge of the last two things I mentioned, I'm realizing I really can't answer that question. 

[djg0017 726]

Just now, Barnacle said:

It depends. I know thats a crap answer, but it really does. It depends on how serious JS's injuries are. It depends on where we are in the season, who we play next and what our record is. It depends on how well Malik continues to progress and what condition White is in. 

Without personal knowledge of the last two things I mentioned, I'm realizing I really can't answer that question. 

I guess I'm thinking if JS is out for the year. I think if JS goes down for a game or two then it's totally SW's job with the condition that Gus is willing to put MW in if SW struggles. I do hope that, no matter what, MW gets at least a quarter out of each of our 3 sure-win games.

[AUIH1 1,515]

1 hour ago, corchjay said:

Gus isn't any different then any other coach that has a QB bust.  It's about a 50 percent rate for all coaches.  Saban Urban Petrino all of them.  The problem has been that Gus had a horrible defense for all except last year.  The UGA game is totally on Gus.  The Clemson game plan totally on Gus.  

2014 uga, 2015 entire season (especially the uga game), the 2016 Clemson, Texas A&M and uga are totally on Gus.

 

wde

[johnnyAU 3,630]

I think it's less a development problem and more of a talent recognition and acquisition problem.  Add to that some of the schizophrenic play calling we've seen the last couple of years and you have poor, one dimensional offenses. 

[Guest WarEagleSteve]

34 minutes ago, AUIH1 said:

2014 uga, 2015 entire season (especially the uga game), the 2016 Clemson, Texas A&M and uga are totally on Gus.

 

wde

2014 UGA can be blamed almost entirely on the A&M loss the week before. That was a hangover game if ever I've seen one. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

-saban's QBs haven't been average. They've been very good. Almost all of them have gone to the NFL. Even if they were only there to hold a clipboard for a minute, that still puts them in elite company.

-Sorry that Gus has had to settle for 4*s that fell outside the top 10. Either way, Sean is his only high school QB to be even moderately successful, and that happened very much despite Gus trying to do everything he could to avoid putting Sean on the field.

We hired Chip Lindsey because Gus wasn't getting it done in the QB department. It's okay. Gus has been great in many ways. We don't have to pretend he's perfect.

[corchjay 5,311]

The bottom line is if Gus loses more then 3 games... if he loses 4... I think he will be shown the door.  Especially if those loses are to Clemson, UGA, LSU, and Bama.  If he loses 3 and then wins a bowl game to finish with 10 wins he probably stays. We have an extremely difficult schedule but our team is built to compete against the best. 

His QB development and sporadic game plans have put him in this position so it's do or die this year and everyone knows I'm a huge Gus supporter. 

[cole256 17,043]

EVERY team goes through all the excuses just given to Gus in the original post.  At other positions as well. And regardless of stars you offer the guy a scholarship you think he can play

[gr82b4au 5,568]

True. I agree, but we want to be better than everyone else and get in the top 4. To do that the Qbs we are offering and really want are saying no ( or have been). 

Everyone notice that only the teams with elite talent or elite QB play win the national title? Same teams. Those top Qbs - we need to sign them to win championships  or we can be like everyone else and just be decent.

Main reason we are being picked high this year- a top rated QB fell in our lap