aujeff11 6,243 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 1 minute ago, homersapien said: Hold on there. You're changing the argument. There have been a few arguments today. And my biggest argument was that both sides were at fault. Moral Equivalency has been the lib argument, not mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUDub 11,131 Posted August 17, 2017 Author Share Posted August 17, 2017 15 minutes ago, aujeff11 said: You're learning that I believe in holding everybody involved that did wrong accountable for their actions. It will be okay for you Oh for Christ's sake... The goalposts have moved. Anyone else noticed it? Quote The "Only one side is at fault" narrative wouldn't be as disgusting if it wasn't for the large amount of blind sheep that are willing to believe it. A neo nazi rally, a call to violence where they terrorized the residents of the town, marching armed, with torches and calling out blacks, Jews and homosexuals, and you castigate both sides equally because they skirmished with counter protesters, even killing one of them. It takes effort to be that morally bankrupt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUDub 11,131 Posted August 17, 2017 Author Share Posted August 17, 2017 3 minutes ago, Auburnfan91 said: Wow, so the Washington Post publishes 2 articles on the same day with completely different descriptions of the size of the far right. https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/organizers-postpone-google-protest-marches-citing-alt-left-terrorist-threats/2017/08/16/1a62a248-824b-11e7-ab27-1a21a8e006ab_story.html?utm_term=.ca676d329414 Context is key... Their clout is anything but small, what with Bannon in the president's ear, for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aujeff11 6,243 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, Bigbens42 said: The goalposts have moved. Anyone else noticed it? Quote Nope. 2 minutes ago, Bigbens42 said: neo nazi rally, a call to violence where they terrorized the residents of the town, marching armed, with torches and calling out blacks, Jews and homosexuals, Has been done before many times. Does Skokie ring a bell? The Antifa did a great job answering to the call of violence though. 2 minutes ago, Bigbens42 said: you castigate both sides equally Link it. I triple dog dare you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUDub 11,131 Posted August 17, 2017 Author Share Posted August 17, 2017 19 minutes ago, aujeff11 said: Nope. Yep. You phrased is "Only one side is at fault" narrative. No one here is arguing that both sides don't bear some responsibility, but that they are not equally morally culpable. Quote Has been done before many times. No, this was unprecedented. The election of "their guy" has emboldened them. The skeletons of our past resurgent, you could say. Ken White at Popehat phrased it "the end of all hypotheticals," and he's one of the most ardent defenders of the 1st I'm aware of. Quote Link it. I triple dog dare you. 6 hours ago, aujeff11 said: So one violence is better than the other. Got it. Hell, read this thread. It's been an exercise in equivocation on your part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aujeff11 6,243 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Just now, Bigbens42 said: You phrased is "Only one side is at fault" narrative. No one here is arguing that both sides don't bear some responsibility Wrong, plenty have. Hence why people are so pissed that Trump said both sides were at fault. And others have even said that I was morally bankrupt just for claiming that more than one side was at fault. 3 minutes ago, Bigbens42 said: So one violence is better than the other. Got it. Really? You're going to distort a whole argument even though you can see on page one that I clearly didn't castigate both sides equally? You claimed the Nazi group wasn't equivalent to the Antifa group due to their direct party ties to the GOP and how they're well funded. You and I both weren't even talking about that skirmish. I thought you were better than that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,352 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 32 minutes ago, aujeff11 said: There have been a few arguments today. And my biggest argument was that both sides were at fault. Moral Equivalency has been the lib argument, not mine. Then maybe, just maybe, you don't understand what we are talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aujeff11 6,243 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 9 hours ago, aujeff11 said: Just because fistfights dont't equate to murder that doesn't mean the fistfights are okay. Clearly not castigating both sides equally.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aujeff11 6,243 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, homersapien said: Then maybe, just maybe, you don't understand what we are talking about. You're out of material. Get new material and get back to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,352 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 36 minutes ago, aujeff11 said: Link it. I triple dog dare you. Do you assert moral equivalence for both sides or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,352 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 5 minutes ago, aujeff11 said: You're out of material. Get new material and get back to me. That's a cop-out from someone who isn't interested in understanding other points of view. You've had several of those, including rejecting participation with the proposed hypothetical excercise, which might have helped you understand. Stop weaseling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aujeff11 6,243 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Just now, homersapien said: That's a cop out from someone who isn't interested in understanding other points of view. Stop weaseling. You have been calling me names since my initial posts only because I didn't toe the company line and declare only one side was at fault. Cast the first stone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,352 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 7 minutes ago, aujeff11 said: Clearly not castigating both sides equally.. But the difference might be significant if one is determining which party has the moral highground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aujeff11 6,243 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Just now, homersapien said: But the difference might be significant if one is determining which party has the moral highground. El oh El Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,352 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, aujeff11 said: You have been calling me names since my initial posts only because I didn't toe the company line and declare only one side was at fault. Cast the first stone. No, according to you, if I cast a stone, that would make you morally superior than me, no matter what you are promoting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aujeff11 6,243 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, homersapien said: No, according to you, if I cast a stone, that would make you morally superior than me, no matter what you are promoting. If it's legal to promote what I'm promoting but yet you start casting stones, then I do have the moral high ground. Socrates was sentenced to death because the people didn't like the science ideas that he was promoting. Who had the moral highground? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,352 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 16 minutes ago, aujeff11 said: Wrong, plenty have. Hence why people are so pissed that Trump said both sides were at fault. And others have even said that I was morally bankrupt just for claiming that more than one side was at fault. Again, no one has challenged that both sides were at fault when it comes to violence, even though one side committed murder. The question is who owns the moral highground between these two groups, not who bears responsibility for whatever violence may have been committed. Apparently that distinction is beyond you. So I give up. I thought I could get you to understand, but I can't, especially since you don't want to. But here's a question for you: Are you perplexed about why so many people are castigating Trump for drawing equivalence between the two groups? Why do you suppose that is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,352 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 5 minutes ago, aujeff11 said: If it's legal to promote what I'm promoting but yet you start casting stones, then I do have the moral high ground. Socrates was sentenced to death because the people didn't like the science ideas that he was promoting. Who had the moral highground? It was sarcasm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,352 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 12 minutes ago, aujeff11 said: You have been calling me names since my initial posts only because I didn't toe the company line and declare only one side was at fault. Cast the first stone. Actually, for the record, you insulted me first and I called you a "kid" in response (different thread). It's been downhill ever since. Like I said I have a weakness about refraining from retaliation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUDub 11,131 Posted August 17, 2017 Author Share Posted August 17, 2017 1 minute ago, aujeff11 said: If it's legal to promote what I'm promoting but yet you start casting stones, then I do have the moral high ground. Socrates was sentenced to death because the people didn't like the science ideas that he was promoting. Who had the moral highground? So in this exchange: Nazi: "I believe that black people are inferior and their subjugation is the natural order of things, and the Jews are the scum of the earth and must be eliminated" Sane person: "Wow the Nazis sure are a**holes" The Nazi has the moral high ground. This isn't a strawman. This is the logical extension of your reasoning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aujeff11 6,243 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Just now, homersapien said: Again, no one has challenged that both sides were at fault when it comes to violence, even though one side committed murder. Well then why did everybody complain about Trump when he said as much? Or to me for that matter... 4 minutes ago, homersapien said: Are you perplexed about why so many people are castigating Trump for drawing equivalence between the two groups? "Drawing equivalence" ..is that another Alt left phrase pending a patent? From what I read, it sounded like he said both sides were at fault. If he castigated both equally for their roles this weekend, link it. And if he did, I'll adjust my view of Trump from "s***ty president" to "POS." 2 minutes ago, homersapien said: The question is who owns the moral highground between these two groups, not who bears responsibility for whatever violence may have been committed. Does either one of them? Do you have all the answers? 3 minutes ago, homersapien said: So I give up. I knew you had it in you. And it's about time. Good night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aujeff11 6,243 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 6 minutes ago, Bigbens42 said: So in this exchange: Nazi: "I believe that black people are inferior and their subjugation is the natural order of things, and the Jews are the scum of the earth and must be eliminated" Sane person: "Wow the Nazis sure are a**holes" The Nazi has the moral high ground. This isn't a strawman. This is the logical extension of your reasoning. Comical that you think so...but, nope. False equivalency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUDub 11,131 Posted August 17, 2017 Author Share Posted August 17, 2017 3 minutes ago, aujeff11 said: Comical that you think so...but, nope. False equivalency. But how so? What makes it false? The Nazi's beliefs, while utterly wrongheaded, are perfectly legal opinions to have after all. The sane person believes he's an a**hole and tells him as much, thereby casting the first stone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aujeff11 6,243 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Just now, Bigbens42 said: But how so? What makes it false? The Nazi's beliefs, while utterly wrongheaded, are perfectly legal opinions to have after all. The sane person believes he's an a**hole and tells him as much, thereby casting the first stone. It sounds you like misinterpreted. When I said cast the first stone, it meant he was in a glass house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,352 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 16 minutes ago, aujeff11 said: Well then why did everybody complain about Trump when he said as much? Or to me for that matter... Sorry, but I don't understand your point. What statement by Trump are you referring to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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