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Pain Points of Charlottesville


aujeff11

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White extremists are bolder than ever. Why? Should we be listening to the pain points of this past weekend that also led to last November? I think so. There are large portions of people that share similar sentiments that are not in that group. Hence why Trump was elected.  Maybe its time to find a greater understanding of why they feel this way. Because the Nazis are just a microcosm of the race problem. 

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1 hour ago, aujeff11 said:

White extremists are bolder than ever. Why? Should we be listening to the pain points of this past weekend that also led to last November? I think so. There are large portions of people that share similar sentiments that are not in that group. Hence why Trump was elected.  Maybe its time to find a greater understanding of why they feel this way. Because the Nazis are just a microcosm of the race problem. 

Care to elaborate on those "pain points"?  All I heard was race-based resentment.

And white extremists are "bolder than ever" because their guy is in the white house. :-\

 

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1 hour ago, homersapien said:

And white extremists are "bolder than ever" because their guy is in the white house. :-\

And why is their guy in the White House?  I literally just mentioned this in the OP. If you're going to be dismissive of the question, snarky and not "serious," please feel free to exit the thread. Trump can't be the only reason why the extremists are bolder. 

And  yes, some pain points may be race resentment. How do we fix that?

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10 minutes ago, aujeff11 said:

And why is their guy in the White House?  I literally just mentioned this in the OP. If you're going to be dismissive of the question, snarky and not "serious," please feel free to exit the thread. Trump can't be the only reason why the extremists are bolder. 

And  yes, some pain points may be race resentment. How do we fix that?

Direct causes of Trump's election include gerrymandering, our archaic electoral system, Trump's pandering to people who are resentful of ongoing economic and social change and poor strategy by Democrats.

I don't know if race resentment can be "fixed", but it sure as hell shouldn't be tolerated.

As for things we should be doing in the future, addressing the polarization of wealth (the disappearance of our middle class) should be a constant consideration in every policy decision.

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42 minutes ago, homersapien said:

I don't know if race resentment can be "fixed", but it sure as hell shouldn't be tolerated.

 

42 minutes ago, homersapien said:

As for things we should be doing in the future, addressing the polarization of wealth (the disappearance of our middle class) should be a constant consideration in every policy decision.

I don't see this significantly helping the issue. It's going to take some hard stances and stepping on the toes. We are a country born from racism so we are going to have to muscle up ethically. First thing I'd do is part with the confederate flag for good. Like I said, freedomhouse.org still gives Germany a 95/100 civil liberties rating despite banning the flag. The KKK, the Nazis, and the Confederates are going to have to find another symbol to unite under. The genuine southern heritage people can be comforted knowing that the KKK and the like can and will no longer tarnish the flag for evil, oppression, etc. 

2. Secondly, I'd set up standard and evenhanded police protocol for riots and protests. No matter who breaks a crime in protest, whether they be "good"or the "bad," no matter how compelled they felt violence and/or the breaking of any other crime was needed, and no matter how right they think they may be, they get arrested. There is no pussyfooting around the issue. And by this standard, people will feel safer that the police is playing a much more proactive role in protecting the innocent citizenry and its equipment around these high spirited environments that are almost like ticking time bombs. 

There will be no more "let the mobs go at it" or the backing down of the police that have been prevalent since LA. Better riot gear will be needed and if need be, the NG will be called up sooner than before.( Sucks for the democrats who dont want to use the NG.) 

The message can be heard in peace and the police will supervise it. However, the police cannot become moderator or judge of content of the message as their lone responsibility is to maintain order. By doing so, even the anti police citizenry can feel safe while they chew apart the police and say whatever they please. 

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1 hour ago, homersapien said:

Direct causes of Trump's election include gerrymandering, our archaic electoral system, Trump's pandering to people who are resentful of ongoing economic and social change and poor strategy by Democrats.

 

The race tensions under Obama as well. Many race frustrations were built up among the white working class. They got sick and tired of the atrocities from the past being throwed at them time after time again. Sick and tired of hearing about "white privilege" when 90 percent of the time, they had nothing to do to receive the privilege, they ever received it to begin with. They got tired of the fake "racist outrages" just like the Durham NC monument which was toppled over by bored white kids needing something to do. Maybe they are tired of being told that owe minorities something. 

Look, there could be many more, I just think they need a perception of evenhandedness across the board. 

 

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30 minutes ago, aujeff11 said:

 

I don't see this significantly helping the issue. It's going to take some hard stances and stepping on the toes. We are a country born from racism so we are going to have to muscle up ethically. First thing I'd do is part with the confederate flag for good. Like I said, freedomhouse.org still gives Germany a 95/100 civil liberties rating despite banning the flag. The KKK, the Nazis, and the Confederates are going to have to find another symbol to unite under. The genuine southern heritage people can be comforted knowing that the KKK and the like can and will no longer tarnish the flag for evil, oppression, etc. 

2. Secondly, I'd set up standard and evenhanded police protocol for riots and protests. No matter who breaks a crime in protest, whether they be "good"or the "bad," no matter how compelled they felt violence and/or the breaking of any other crime was needed, and no matter how right they think they may be, they get arrested. There is no pussyfooting around the issue. And by this standard, people will feel safer that the police is playing a much more proactive role in protecting the innocent citizenry and its equipment around these high spirited environments that are almost like ticking time bombs. 

There will be no more "let the mobs go at it" or the backing down of the police that have been prevalent since LA. Better riot gear will be needed and if need be, the NG will be called up sooner than before.( Sucks for the democrats who dont want to use the NG.) 

The message can be heard in peace and the police will supervise it. However, the police cannot become moderator or judge of content of the message as their lone responsibility is to maintain order. By doing so, even the anti police citizenry can feel safe while they chew apart the police and say whatever they please. 

The only reason I mentioned ecomomic inequality / insecurity is because I think it is one of the major issues that fuels any sort of xenophobia.  If you have a large part of your population which is being left behind you are going to have problems.

While I can understand why Germany did it, I think banning symbols / flags is a non-starter in this country, and rightly so.  I think it would likely be counter-productive at any rate.

While the police may have made some mistakes in Charlottesville, I don't think it was due to their strategy or protocol.  The first rule of handling such demonstrations is to keep the two groups separated.  As I understand it, their plan to do that broke down because of the way the groups convened on the scene.  I am sure they are reviewing what happened.

I do think that the police should make every effort to film (for evidence) and arrest everyone who instigated a violent act and brought meaningful charges against them.  I don't know how many people were arrested but it would be very helpful for everyone to know that you will be arrested and charged if you instigate violence.  And if you get arrested in the future for the same thing, you should face significant prison time. 

Having said all that, it's still wrong to argue moral equivalence between white supremacists and antifa simply based on some of the latter committed acts of violence.  The only reason antifa was there was to oppose the white supremacists and what they stand for.  The fact some of them acted violently changes nothing about the message they were opposing.  I spoke to this in my "takeaway" topic thread.

 

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7 minutes ago, aujeff11 said:

The race tensions under Obama as well. Many race frustrations were built up among the white working class. They got sick and tired of the atrocities from the past being throwed at them time after time again. Sick and tired of hearing about "white privilege" when 90 percent of the time, they had nothing to do to receive the privilege, they ever received it to begin with. They got tired of the fake "racist outrages" just like the Durham NC monument which was toppled over by bored white kids needing something to do. Maybe they are tired of being told that owe minorities something. 

Look, there could be many more, I just think they need a perception of evenhandedness across the board. 

 

That's just BS.

Obama did nothing to contribute to racism in this country other than being black.

And frankly, you're rhetoric sounds like it is coming from a white racist.  You really need to be aware of that.

 

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One problem is that Antifa doesn't just show up to so-called white supremacist rallies. They show up and shut down any conservative speakers, anywhere they disagree with. It's easy to condemn KKK, Neo-nazis, and white supremacist groups, because we know exactly who they are and what they espouse. Antifa is this amalgamation of anarchists, anti free-speech fascists (yes, I get the irony), and left-wing political Social Justice' warriors. There isn't a clear-cut message with them.

Yes, Obama absolutely contributed to racial tensions in this country. He automatically sided with any black cause, no matter what the facts of the situation. Mike Brown case being the most egregious. He invited the leaders of the Ferguson riots into the White House and never acknowledged that Officer Wilson was vindicated by the forensic evidence in the case. He sided with the Harvard professor before getting the facts. I will give him half-credit for calling for the "beer summit" though. he asserted himself too quickly in most of those situations long before the facts were established.

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