ESPNW report on sexual harassment

[Tigerbelle 5,299]

1 hour ago, aujeff11 said:

I mean I guess they could be silently supporting her, but that's not much real support at all imo. Only one is sticking their neck out and it's only her receiving the criticism for her vague message during that AL.com interview. If somebody is willing to provide credibility to her message, I'm not sure what is stopping them. Other than Bass, we've already seen girls like Rachael Walters provide support for Clint and offer "disgust" for her former teammates.

You obviously do not understand the problem with openly talking about sexual harassment. Think back to one Clarence Thomas and all the grief that poor woman went through. I believed her, and I understood why she didn't quit her job. I have personally experienced it and could not change jobs immediately. Some women don't care if it happens, and some even like the attention from male colleagues and supervisors even if they wouldn't admit it. Others do not like it and are able to move on while still others suffer in silence for various reasons. And sometimes one woman is singled out as a target. We do not know what happened and we do not know what's going on behind the scenes. 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

On 08/31/2017 at 10:25 PM, Tigerbelle said:

Have you ever experienced sexual harassment by someone who can take away everything you've worked hard for since you were a child? Have you ever been sexually harassed by someone who holds financial power over you and your future? I have, and when I was  much younger and inexperienced, I was at a loss as to how to handle it. At that time of my life I just tried to ignore it, or work around it somehow, and hope it would resolve itself. As I entered my 30's and 40's  I learned not to take any crap. You have no idea how upsetting,confusing,and frightening it can be. It is totally understandable to me that many of the girls just kept their heads down and kept quiet. They want their scholarships, and their degrees. They were probably trying not to take sides as a form of self protection.  Not only was Corey a coach.....but Clint was also his Dad.  And AU softball was finally a big contender. I bet they understood what all of that meant. Or maybe they were reminded of it. Obviously there was trouble with the team, and the coaches were involved in something serious. 

You are taking what I said and making it a soapbox moment for something completely different. What I was speaking to, if you read closely, was the assertion that there was some kind of sex for playing time thing going on. What I was saying is that while I have no trouble believing that a younger coach who would have an inappropriate relationship would go as far as to suggest such a thing, I find it very hard to believe that multiple players would actually have sex with him. If you would like to take the position that college girls are so weak that they would give up their bodies for fear of not being able to play a game, and aren't aware of the numerous avenues they would have to battle such a thing, then feel free. My experience, however, is that college girls have sex when they choose to, except in cases of assault, of which this isn't one, and that they are almost too aware of the phrase "I'm going to call a lawyer".

[Tigerbelle 5,299]

1 minute ago, lionheartkc said:

You are taking what I said and making it a soapbox moment for something completely different. What I was speaking to, if you read closely, was the assertion that there was some kind of sex for playing time thing going on. What I was saying is that while I have no trouble believing that a younger coach who would have an inappropriate relationship would go as far as to suggest such a thing, I find it very hard to believe that multiple players would actually have sex with him. If you would like to take the position that college girls are so weak that they would give up their bodies for fear of not being able to play a game, and aren't aware of the numerous avenues they would have to battle such a thing, then feel free. My experience, however, is that college girls have sex when they choose to, except in cases of assault, of which this isn't one, and that they are almost too aware of the phrase "I'm going to call a lawyer".

No YOU don't understand what I'm saying. Those girls would not have to actually agree to it and participate in it. The proposition could be made and it would still be sexual harassment even if no one accepted the deal. I certainly never accepted any propositions but I received but I was worried about the fallout from a refusal. It can be a difficult situation. Clear enough for you? 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

On 08/31/2017 at 10:15 PM, boomstick said:

I guess I could see that. But if your goal is to protect the student athlete and there's been a complaint about a coach in this nature, it seems allowing him to go back into a situation where that behavior could continue is unwise. It seems there is a contradiction between the actions here and the statement released when it comes to protecting athletes.

I don't know that the AD did anything wrong procedurally, but I'm not certain it was the right decision either. Hindsight being 20/20, that complaint turned out to be true, and some players had to steal the information to prove the behavior or it could still be going on. That investigation, and the details surrounding it, are what will show that the AD administration acted appropriately or didn't. And we will probably never be privy to that information. 

While I agree with what you are saying, in principle, here's the problem Auburn was faced with. The initial complaints were anonymous. If no one was willing to step forward, then Auburn had no grounds for termination and would be hard pressed to even go with a paid suspension. It would be setting a dangerous precedent that anyone could anonymously complain about a member of the faculty or staff and they would have to be suspended. Now, with players, you can act first and investigate later, because you aren't directly effecting their livelihood. If you terminate someone's job without cause that can be substantiated, you not only potentially face lawsuits, but also make it very hard to hire future coaches.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

3 minutes ago, Tigerbelle said:

No YOU don't understand what I'm saying. Those girls would not have to actually agree to it and participate in it. The proposition could be made and it would still be sexual harassment even if no one accepted the deal. I certainly never accepted any propositions but I received but I was worried about the fallout from a refusal. It can be a difficult situation. Clear enough for you? 

Again, I'm not talking about sexual harassment, I'm talking about actual sex for play, which is what some people have proposed was going on. The claim is that the girls were upset because girls were actually getting privileges for providing sexual favors. In no way does that scenario work if no one is participating.

Believe me, I know what sexual harassment is. I actually got a professor fired from Auburn, when I was a student, for sexual harassing one of my classmates.

[1716 17]

We don't do rumors here.

[Tigerbelle 5,299]

1 minute ago, lionheartkc said:

Again, I'm not talking about sexual harassment, I'm talking about actual sex for play, which is what some people have proposed was going on. The claim is that the girls were upset because girls were actually getting privileges for providing sexual favors. In no way does that scenario work if no one is participating.

Believe me, I know what sexual harassment is. I actually got a professor fired from Auburn, when I was a student, for sexual harassing one of my classmates.

We don't know if that part of the allegations are true or not......but YES it does happen just like that. I am NOT.....I repeat NOT saying it definitely happened with AU softball. I'm saying that it is possible because I have seen it happen. When I was in college the manager of the restaurant where I worked slept with a couple of his waitresses. Those that had a thing with him got the best shifts and overtime. But it was never openly discussed. Those of us who were not interested in that kind of thing were furious and either quit or put up with it until he was gone. This scenario is not all that rare.....which is why there are laws against it. You act as if it's impossible and I'm telling you it isn't. That still doesn't mean I believe it definitely happened that way at AU. I just won't say it couldn't have happened because I know better.

As for that professor....do you think your classmate was the first one? The only one? I seriously doubt it. 

 

 

Sexual Harassment

It is unlawful to harass a person (an applicant or employee) because of that person’s sex. Harassment can include “sexual harassment” or unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors, and other verbal or physical harassment of a sexual nature.

Harassment does not have to be of a sexual nature, however, and can include offensive remarks about a person’s sex. For example, it is illegal to harass a woman by making offensive comments about women in general.

Both victim and the harasser can be either a woman or a man, and the victim and harasser can be the same sex.

Although the law doesn’t prohibit simple teasing, offhand comments, or isolated incidents that are not very serious, harassment is illegal when it is so frequent or severe that it creates a hostile or offensive work environment or when it results in an adverse employment decision (such as the victim being fired or demoted).

The harasser can be the victim's supervisor, a supervisor in another area, a co-worker, or someone who is not an employee of the employer, such as a client or customer.

 

 

https://www.eeoc.gov/laws/types/sexual_harassment.cfm

CONNECT

[aujeff11 6,243]

1 hour ago, Tigerbelle said:

We do not know what happened and we do not know what's going on behind the scenes. 

I wholeheartedly agree with this.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

1 minute ago, Tigerbelle said:

We don't know if that part of the allegations are true or not......but YES it does happen just like that. I am NOT.....I repeat NOT saying it definitely happened with AU softball. I'm saying that it is possible because I have seen it happen. When I was in college the manager of the restaurant where I worked slept with a couple of his waitresses. Those that had a thing with him got the best shifts and overtime. But it was never openly discussed. Those of us who were not interested in that kind of thing were furious and either quit or put up with it until he was gone. This scenario is not all that rare.....which is why there are laws against it. You act as if it's impossible and I'm telling you it isn't. That still doesn't mean I believe it definitely happened that way at AU. I just won't say it couldn't have happened because I know better.

As for that professor....do you think your classmate was the first one? The only one? I seriously doubt it.

CONNECT

Unfortunately, there actually isn't a law against giving preference to someone who is in a sexual relationship with a manager (though most companies have policies against it). Managers give preference to friends, family, and lovers all of the time. There is, however, a law against even suggesting it as a requirement. Again, I know what sexual harassment is... my father was a HR director for nearly his entire career, and I work in management for an international corporation, which means I get an annual refresher course on the subject.

As for the professor... he was more idiot than predator. Anyone interacting with him casually would write him off as a garden variety nerd (he even bounced when he walked). I honestly think he was just smitten because she was smart and stunningly beautiful. He was pretty new so that may have been the first time he actually talked to someone like her. Still, his social awkwardness was no excuse for making her so uncomfortable with his extra attention that she dropped the class... and nothing could be considered an excuse for him calling her and asking her out after she dropped (that's when I went to the Dean). I will note, he never made inappropriate suggestions, until he asked her out, and even then there was no sexual overtone. The real irony is the class we were taking from him was logic.

[PowerOfDixieland 3,225]

17 hours ago, lionheartkc said:

Believe me, I know what sexual harassment is. I actually got a professor fired from Auburn, when I was a student, for sexual harassing one of my classmates.

When were you at Auburn and who was the professor?

[AUIH1 1,515]

21 hours ago, lionheartkc said:

Again, I'm not talking about sexual harassment, I'm talking about actual sex for play, which is what some people have proposed was going on. The claim is that the girls were upset because girls were actually getting privileges for providing sexual favors. In no way does that scenario work if no one is participating.

Believe me, I know what sexual harassment is. I actually got a professor fired from Auburn, when I was a student, for sexual harassing one of my classmates.

Really?  Who was the professor?  I don't consider asking someone out for a date to be sexual harassment, do you?

 

wde

[AU9377 4,913]

On 9/2/2017 at 2:58 PM, Tigerbelle said:

You obviously do not understand the problem with openly talking about sexual harassment. Think back to one Clarence Thomas and all the grief that poor woman went through. I believed her, and I understood why she didn't quit her job. I have personally experienced it and could not change jobs immediately. Some women don't care if it happens, and some even like the attention from male colleagues and supervisors even if they wouldn't admit it. Others do not like it and are able to move on while still others suffer in silence for various reasons. And sometimes one woman is singled out as a target. We do not know what happened and we do not know what's going on behind the scenes. 

Just a reminder.  The former student athlete that filed the Title IX complaint is not actually claiming that she herself was sexually harassed.

[AU9377 4,913]

On 9/2/2017 at 3:19 PM, lionheartkc said:

Again, I'm not talking about sexual harassment, I'm talking about actual sex for play, which is what some people have proposed was going on. The claim is that the girls were upset because girls were actually getting privileges for providing sexual favors. In no way does that scenario work if no one is participating.

Believe me, I know what sexual harassment is. I actually got a professor fired from Auburn, when I was a student, for sexual harassing one of my classmates.

That assertion is laughable.  If you listen to her interview, Nameth isn't really claiming that.  She states very clearly that she could "see that possibly happening in the future", which is pure nonsense/

[AU9377 4,913]

On 9/2/2017 at 3:11 PM, Tigerbelle said:

No YOU don't understand what I'm saying. Those girls would not have to actually agree to it and participate in it. The proposition could be made and it would still be sexual harassment even if no one accepted the deal. I certainly never accepted any propositions but I received but I was worried about the fallout from a refusal. It can be a difficult situation. Clear enough for you? 

The problem is that we have absolutely no evidence or corroboration that anything like that took place. NONE.  Ofcourse, what happens is that we repeat something over and over and it somehow becomes accepted as fact.

[Tigerbelle 5,299]

3 hours ago, AU9377 said:

The problem is that we have absolutely no evidence or corroboration that anything like that took place. NONE.  Ofcourse, what happens is that we repeat something over and over and it somehow becomes accepted as fact.

I WAS NOT claiming it happened at Auburn. NOWHERE will you see me saying that. I was saying that those types of situations can and do happen to women more often that men realize. 

[FoundationEagle 637]

On 9/3/2017 at 8:55 PM, Tigerbelle said:

I WAS NOT claiming it happened at Auburn. NOWHERE will you see me saying that. I was saying that those types of situations can and do happen to women more often that men realize. 

 By discussing this here, it gets implied that it applies to this case. Until this response by you, I assumed you were claiming it as a fact of this case.  This leads others to come in, read your comments and go about proclaiming Auburn AD covers up for quid pro quo activity as fact. I know this because I've had bama fans try and tell me this is the case.  

Everyone is aware these things happen sometimes at some places. This discussion has people believing it happening at AU. Dangerous topic when used in the wrong place at the wrong time. 

[Tigerbelle 5,299]

7 hours ago, FoundationEagle said:

 By discussing this here, it gets implied that it applies to this case. Until this response by you, I assumed you were claiming it as a fact of this case.  This leads others to come in, read your comments and go about proclaiming Auburn AD covers up for quid pro quo activity as fact. I know this because I've had bama fans try and tell me this is the case.  

Everyone is aware these things happen sometimes at some places. This discussion has people believing it happening at AU. Dangerous topic when used in the wrong place at the wrong time. 

Your complaint is ridiculous. This is already in the news and has been discussed for days.  You always have the option of scrolling on by a subject that you don't like. Blaming me for the topic is really out of line. I am outraged that you single me out just because you don't like my answers. If you can't comprehend what you are reading, and if you can't grasp context then that is entirely your problem. Maybe you need to read an entire thread to understand it. If you're too lazy to read enough to know what's going on in a thread then don't criticize when you're being willfully clueless. This is without a doubt the dumbest post I've ever seen here. You are actually saying that I shouldn't post even though others have posted here because some people are too stupid to understand what they are reading. If you have a problem with this topic take it up with a mod and leave me alone. 

[AU9377 4,913]

On 8/31/2017 at 11:15 PM, boomstick said:

I guess I could see that. But if your goal is to protect the student athlete and there's been a complaint about a coach in this nature, it seems allowing him to go back into a situation where that behavior could continue is unwise. It seems there is a contradiction between the actions here and the statement released when it comes to protecting athletes.

I don't know that the AD did anything wrong procedurally, but I'm not certain it was the right decision either. Hindsight being 20/20, that complaint turned out to be true, and some players had to steal the information to prove the behavior or it could still be going on. That investigation, and the details surrounding it, are what will show that the AD administration acted appropriately or didn't. And we will probably never be privy to that information. 

Therefore, if any member of any team has a problem with a coach, all they have to do is file an anonymous ethics complaint alleging inappropriate behavior and that coach should be removed, regardless of whether or not what is alleged can be established or not?

[FoundationEagle 637]

4 hours ago, Tigerbelle said:

Your complaint is ridiculous. This is already in the news and has been discussed for days.  You always have the option of scrolling on by a subject that you don't like. Blaming me for the topic is really out of line. I am outraged that you single me out just because you don't like my answers. If you can't comprehend what you are reading, and if you can't grasp context then that is entirely your problem. Maybe you need to read an entire thread to understand it. If you're too lazy to read enough to know what's going on in a thread then don't criticize when you're being willfully clueless. This is without a doubt the dumbest post I've ever seen here. You are actually saying that I shouldn't post even though others have posted here because some people are too stupid to understand what they are reading. If you have a problem with this topic take it up with a mod and leave me alone. 

Wow. What's with the victim mentality?

I never blamed you for the topic.  I pointed out that using your topic in this thread is misleading people. It is.  Just like in your response quoted above. You just claimed IT IS IN THE NEWS. NO IT IS NOT!  The things you are talking about are not a part of this case. Misleading.  Sorry you can't see that and use it as a chance to throw the victim card  

Also, I never said you shouldn't post. I usually enjoy your posts. I said if you want to discuss this topic take it to the proper thread. It does NOT belong in this one.  So again you are not a victim here.  Stop acting like one.

Outraged? Misplaced anger.

 Leave you alone?  I made ONE post regarding a misleading topic.  

No need for the outrage or victim card.  

[doverstutts 1,643]

7 hours ago, FoundationEagle said:

Wow. What's with the victim mentality?

I never blamed you for the topic.  I pointed out that using your topic in this thread is misleading people. It is.  Just like in your response quoted above. You just claimed IT IS IN THE NEWS. NO IT IS NOT!  The things you are talking about are not a part of this case. Misleading.  Sorry you can't see that and use it as a chance to throw the victim card  

Also, I never said you shouldn't post. I usually enjoy your posts. I said if you want to discuss this topic take it to the proper thread. It does NOT belong in this one.  So again you are not a victim here.  Stop acting like one.

Outraged? Misplaced anger.

 Leave you alone?  I made ONE post regarding a misleading topic.  

No need for the outrage or victim card.  

Great post!    Its time to stand up to all of the "cards" that are being played.   People have been conditioned to play them. Again, great post and it was needed

[FoundationEagle 637]

12 minutes ago, doverstutts said:

Great post!    Its time to stand up to all of the "cards" that are being played.   People have been conditioned to play them. Again, great post and it was needed

While I agree, Belle is a quality poster on this forum. This isn't typical for her. Not sure why she got so mad here. 

[AlaskanFAN 1,665]

11 hours ago, FoundationEagle said:

Wow. What's with the victim mentality?

I never blamed you for the topic.  I pointed out that using your topic in this thread is misleading people. It is.  Just like in your response quoted above. You just claimed IT IS IN THE NEWS. NO IT IS NOT!  The things you are talking about are not a part of this case. Misleading.  Sorry you can't see that and use it as a chance to throw the victim card  

Also, I never said you shouldn't post. I usually enjoy your posts. I said if you want to discuss this topic take it to the proper thread. It does NOT belong in this one.  So again you are not a victim here.  Stop acting like one.

Outraged? Misplaced anger.

 Leave you alone?  I made ONE post regarding a misleading topic.  

No need for the outrage or victim card.  

 

4 hours ago, doverstutts said:

Great post!    Its time to stand up to all of the "cards" that are being played.   People have been conditioned to play them. Again, great post and it was needed

 

4 hours ago, FoundationEagle said:

While I agree, Belle is a quality poster on this forum. This isn't typical for her. Not sure why she got so mad here. 

 

15 hours ago, Tigerbelle said:

Your complaint is ridiculous. This is already in the news and has been discussed for days.  You always have the option of scrolling on by a subject that you don't like. Blaming me for the topic is really out of line. I am outraged that you single me out just because you don't like my answers. If you can't comprehend what you are reading, and if you can't grasp context then that is entirely your problem. Maybe you need to read an entire thread to understand it. If you're too lazy to read enough to know what's going on in a thread then don't criticize when you're being willfully clueless. This is without a doubt the dumbest post I've ever seen here. You are actually saying that I shouldn't post even though others have posted here because some people are too stupid to understand what they are reading. If you have a problem with this topic take it up with a mod and leave me alone. 

 Tigerbelle is one of the few female posters in this forum.

She gives-a complete different point of view on this topic, the female side.

From her posts in this topic it seems to be inferred she has some past experience in this area of sexual harassment. 

I would go out on a limb and say that 99% of the males posting in this topic/forum have not experienced sexual harassment. BUT if you really think back at some time in your life (in high school, college or around the water cooler) you have made a inappropriate joke, sexual comment towards or even "good games" a female friend. 

ALL the articles about the Auburn Girls Softball Program, Players, Coaches, AD and Title IX have a point of view by a different persons account of events. (Alexa Nemeth, Haley Fagen, JJ, The AD, Etc.......) Therefore the readers of these articles based upon facts, some perceived facts, some inferred facts, personal beliefs, morals, life experiences formulate opinions and express them.

Read all the articles objectively as if you were on the female side of the fence also. I not saying you are wrong at all, I just saying it might help understand her frustration.

 

 

 

 

[Tigerbelle 5,299]

On 9/5/2017 at 10:20 PM, FoundationEagle said:

Wow. What's with the victim mentality?

I never blamed you for the topic.  I pointed out that using your topic in this thread is misleading people. It is.  Just like in your response quoted above. You just claimed IT IS IN THE NEWS. NO IT IS NOT!  The things you are talking about are not a part of this case. Misleading.  Sorry you can't see that and use it as a chance to throw the victim card  

Also, I never said you shouldn't post. I usually enjoy your posts. I said if you want to discuss this topic take it to the proper thread. It does NOT belong in this one.  So again you are not a victim here.  Stop acting like one.

Outraged? Misplaced anger.

 Leave you alone?  I made ONE post regarding a misleading topic.  

No need for the outrage or victim card.  

You QUOTED MY POST. It's been on ESPN....A SPORTS NEWS OUTLET .....as well as other  NEWS outlets which I am listing since you claim to be the expert on this subject and said it wasn't in the news. You are wrong.

http://whnt.com/2017/08/26/report-former-auburn-softball-player-alleges-abusive-treatment-sexual-harassment-within-program/

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2729678-former-auburn-softball-player-alleges-sexual-harassment-in-title-ix-complaint

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2017/08/former_auburn_softball_player.html

http://www.wtvy.com/content/sports/Former-Auburn-softball-player-alleging-abusive-treatment-sexual-harassment-cover-up-per-ESPN-report-441819053.html

http://nypost.com/2017/08/28/quarantines-threats-auburn-softballs-sexual-harassment-accusations/

 

 

 How in the hell is that not singling me out? You SAID I was to blame for giving my point of view. You are being a complete, willfully stupid jackazz, and it's very obvious that your discomfort with this subject, and your need for AU to be blameless in everything is clouding your perception. You don't make the rules here, and if i decide to give my opinions and experiences with the subject at hand then I will and I don't need your permission. I don't need your condescension and mansplaining either. You are the one with the issue here not me. Do not ever respond to my posts again if you can't  be respectful and if you can't comprehend the issue that's been discussed. 

[Tigerbelle 5,299]

On 9/6/2017 at 10:13 AM, AlaskanFAN said:

 

 

 

 Tigerbelle is one of the few female posters in this forum.

She gives-a complete different point of view on this topic, the female side.

From her posts in this topic it seems to be inferred she has some past experience in this area of sexual harassment. 

I would go out on a limb and say that 99% of the males posting in this topic/forum have not experienced sexual harassment. BUT if you really think back at some time in your life (in high school, college or around the water cooler) you have made a inappropriate joke, sexual comment towards or even "good games" a female friend. 

ALL the articles about the Auburn Girls Softball Program, Players, Coaches, AD and Title IX have a point of view by a different persons account of events. (Alexa Nemeth, Haley Fagen, JJ, The AD, Etc.......) Therefore the readers of these articles based upon facts, some perceived facts, some inferred facts, personal beliefs, morals, life experiences formulate opinions and express them.

Read all the articles objectively as if you were on the female side of the fence also. I not saying you are wrong at all, I just saying it might help understand her frustration.

 

 

 

 

THANK YOU!!!  You get it! These posters don't even understand the issue that is in the complaint by Alexa Nemeth, let alone understand what I'm saying. None of them really know much about the topic at all but they have no idea that they are clueless. 

[FoundationEagle 637]

5 hours ago, Tigerbelle said:

THANK YOU!!!  You get it! These posters don't even understand the issue that is in the complaint by Alexa Nemeth, let alone understand what I'm saying. None of them really know much about the topic at all but they have no idea that they are clueless. 

We all understand the issue that is in the Nameth "complaint". We also have all seen her interviews which almost certainly give cause to dismiss her entire case as well as the fact that no players, not even ones no longer at AU have validated her claims or even spoken to her about them.  You are trying like Hades to prove this is some real issue at AU while in the same thread claiming you are not saying it is happening at AU. Which is it?

Every single link you gave me while yelling angrily into the keyboard has zero actual claims by anyone other than Nameth or any discussion pointing to it being a real issue. You linked to click bait articles without actually reading them to prove your case. It still stands that NO ONE outside of Nameth has claimed any form of sexual harassment (and she hasn't even claimed any real harassment other than something she could see happening at some nonexistent time in the future) and no media are claiming there was sexual harassment.  It's best not to read clickbait headlines as fact and then use them as evidence.  They are almost always extremely misleading  

Everyone here understands what you are saying (until now). Sexual Harrassment, when real and present, is a very serious matter to not take lightly. I'm sorry you have experienced it before. There is never an excuse for it. No need in treating me like I am the one that did it to you for not agreeing that those details apply to this case.  I can see this is a sensitive matter for you so I will leave it at this as we are talking in circles and you seem to be extremely angry at me for very very little reason.  It's not worth all this anger.