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Worth Replacing Gus?


ToomersStreet

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I am with the half of this forum that is sick and tired of Coach Malzahn at this point.  This is not a thread highlighting reasons why he is falling short of expectations however.  I am going to propose a question that i feel everyone should give some serious thought too. 

Currently Jay  Jacobs is our AD.    Now either Jacobs is let go because PTB no longer trust him to make  another coaching hire or he is still our AD for the foreseeable future.  Either way let's say we fire Gus after another 8-4 season.  Now we are searching for a legitimately qualified candidate(no more HC in trainings).  Currently we would be competing with Texas A&M, but Tennessee is getting fed up with Jones  and Florida with Jim McElwain, and Arkansas with Bielema  , yes Mississippi is looking for a coach but they are not going to be competing with  anyone for a good HC with the state of their program.  Best case, scenario, it would just be aTm and ourselves in the SEC competing for a new HC at  the end of the year. Texas A&M boosters have expressed interest in Chip Kelley maybe we go after him too.  We don't get Chip then what? To make things more complicated what if UT or  UF or  Arky pulls the plug on their  coach and there are now three  major  SEC programs looking for a coach. Jay Jacobs has passed over Gary Patterson twice  for more "qualified coaches" so realistically he probably won't even listen to our proposal.  All that being said anyone looking to hire a serious HC capable of averaging 10+ wins a is going to have a difficult time finding a quality candidate, and when they do find him another high profile program will be pursuing him.  

So my  question is this, would we just be better off sticking with Gus for the foreseeable future? Let's just take  our lumps from Alabama?  Deal with the slow starts every year?  Hope that maybe eventually he comes around on the offensive side of the ball.  He has done a phenomenal job recruiting.  Our  defense is lights out.  Most importantly Gus isn't a horrible coach(Chizik without  Gus as his OC). Gus is a good HC.  Not great.  Not  memorable.  But he is  good for 8-4 every year.  Our players stay out of trouble, unlike with Chizik. Maybe we should just stick with Gus until another James Franklin, Jim Harbaugh, Urban Meyer emerges, then grab them.  But if we fire  Gus this year, and yes I  do feel that we have reason too, who is actually out there worth getting that we  KNOW we can get?  Just want to see what everyone else thinks.

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It's definitely a catch 22.  I think most all of us can agree we don't want JJ making the next hire so it does seem counterproductive to let Gus go after this season if JJ is still in charge. However, there is always the chance that even JJ could back into a good hire.  I keep going back to Clemson and how they just took a shot with an unproven guy no one had heard of with a funny name and look where they are now.  No way that Clemson's AD new what he was getting when he made that decision.  Blind squirrels and all that.  Keeping Gus just for the sake of avoiding a JJ hire could be detrimental.  If Gus continues to be average on the field our opponents will continue to use that against him on the recruiting trail and then our recruiting may suffer. Not to mention the morale of the fan base and alumni who buy the season tickets.  Its a tough situation and one that we have seen too many times at Auburn before. 

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Should we do as Nebraska and fire JJ? Do this while the Athletic Dept is in the middle of the Softball mess? I am not sure there is a good time but I think JJ should be gone before CGM is fired. A national search for AD should be initiated and no one currently associated with AU should be a candidate. We need new blood before the damages of inbreeding become irreversible... 

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2 minutes ago, G8orH8or said:

Should we do as Nebraska and fire JJ? Do this while the Athletic Dept is in the middle of the Softball mess? I am not sure there is a good time but I think JJ should be gone before CGM is fired. A national search for AD should be initiated and no one currently associated with AU should be a candidate. We need new blood before the damages of inbreeding become irreversible... 

So do  we fire our AD and HC before December?  Do we fire JJ and give Gus one more year?

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7 minutes ago, ToomersStreet said:

So do  we fire our AD and HC before December?  Do we fire JJ and give Gus one more year?

If the PTB want JJ gone as our AD, they have the reason as G8orH8or mentioned about the Softball mess.  JJ would totally understand as he has done the same (See Sonny Golloway).  We should fire JJ first if we are ready to get a new coach, but the timing will have to be right.  The moment they have decided to fire Gus, they fire JJ and give Gus the dreaded "vote of confidence".  The writing will be on the wall, if the PTB do it right, they have an AD already in mind so it will be a quick hire.  The new AD will evaluate Gus' performance at the end of the year.

It really depends on what the PTB want for Auburn going forward.  We are just the fans and can only be entertained as the year unfolds. 

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pay Gus to sit at home, or to coach? We would be going through the same trial and error with a new coach.

Unless there is a total collapse Gus can still make this a special season despite not showing anything yet to make us think it will.

Maybe everyone will WAKE UP and play football instead of thinking about football

Unless there are some hidden gems out there, the coaching pool is very shallow at the moment.

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45 minutes ago, ToomersStreet said:

So do  we fire our AD and HC before December?  Do we fire JJ and give Gus one more year?

I don't know the answers. I would think replace JJ now and allow the new AD to make that call in the off-season. It sucks that we are once again in this position....

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I think we will keep Gus provided we go at least 10-3 this year and either beat Alabama or Georgia. That said if we don't then I believe that Gus and JJ both will be fired.

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Been thinking about this very subject.   A lot average coaches are going to get paid big and this year is not a year to be trying to hire a coach,even if the program continues  next year to be more of the same.      Jarhead Jacobs needs to  "retire" at some point in the immediate future and a real AD hired before a coach is hired.   That jackass needs to be put out to pasture, as in yesterday

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2 minutes ago, bg5 said:

I think we will keep Gus provided we go at least 10-3 this year and either beat Alabama or Georgia. That said if we don't then I believe that Gus and JJ both will be fired.

No thinking to it, it would be a definite if we go 10-3 and beat either the Updykes or UGA. We basically finish 2nd in the SEC and a great bowl with that scenario. No way we fire a guy after that kind of season. 

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IMO everyday that Gus is our coach is one day we lose instead of getting closer to the team and program that we want to be. I'd prefer JJ not make the next hire since his last 2 have not worked out well (in the long run). But i would not support keeping Gus around if JJ doesn't get fired. I don't think fear of failure is a good enough reason to stand pat. There are 1000s of great coaches out there. The trick is finding the one that fits your needs. So yeah we could fire Gus and things get worse but then we'll still be unhappy and wanting change like we are now so i don't see a lot to lose. 

My biggest fear is Gus doing just enough once again to make the PTB not make a move and then we have another year of uninspired football to watch. 

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We didn't have a line of proven coaches lined up to take the job when we hired Chiz or Gus. What makes anyone believe it will be different the next time? Look at what bammer went thru post Stallings, Tenner C since Fulmer, Florida since Urban.  THUGA could find themselves in the same situation. Not saying that Gus is Beamer(and I can't stand HIM!) but look at his career and early record. In today's NZAA, you have the turds and ohio state(maybe Clemson) at the top of the food chain. Most everyone else is very close to equality. This is a product of 85 scholarships and a different set of rules that the NZAA applies to certain teams. Let's face it, we have a group of big money donors that call the shots and they aren't always accurate. That won't change post JJ or Gus.

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15 minutes ago, JBiGGiE said:

Boy, I wonder how fast this board would implode if we were to hire a new AD and him still keep Malzahn?

New AD's usually don't make drastic/quick decisions about coaches when they're new to the job.  They have to get a feel for the program, assess the inner workings and administrative systems in place in the entire department and AU has a huge Athletic Department from a personnel standpoint, huge.  IMHO, replacing the head football coach will not be the first item on a new AD's agenda, he'll have to do his own audit, assessment, and evaluation of every program and coach on staff.  Firing/hiring a head football coach at any P5 program is serious stuff that can't be made on a whim.  And to expect a new AD to make those decisions right off the bat is expecting too much.

IMHO, "if" Jacobs retires (Auburn rarely just flat out fires people - too much negativity) and a new AD is hired, then CGM will be at the helm for another full season.  It'd be hard to terminate a football coach that wins 8 games a year and gets his team to bowl games & the revenue they generate when you barely know the man.

 

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Jay Jacobs has a horrible track record for hiring coaches. Namely football coaches. Does anyone really trust this guy to hire another head football coach if Malzahn is fired at the end of this year? I don't believe JJ would even know what a winning coach is even if one walked right passed him.

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23 minutes ago, imaolgatiger said:

We didn't have a line of proven coaches lined up to take the job when we hired Chiz or Gus. What makes anyone believe it will be different the next time? Look at what bammer went thru post Stallings, Tenner C since Fulmer, Florida since Urban.  THUGA could find themselves in the same situation. Not saying that Gus is Beamer(and I can't stand HIM!) but look at his career and early record. In today's NZAA, you have the turds and ohio state at the top of the food chain. Most everyone else is very close to equality. This is a product of 85 scholarships and a different set of rules that the NZAA applies to certain teams. Let's face it, we have a group of big money donors that call the shots and they aren't always accurate. That won't change post JJ or Gus.

Going back a little further, look at Texas' 20 years of wandering in the wilderness after they fired Fred Akers (1 year removed from MNC contention) followed by one good year with Mack Brown, then the Charlie Strong disaster and now Latest-Hot-Coaching-Hire Herman losing to Maryland at home. Then he goes to USC, puts the Top 5 Trojans on the ropes, and proceeds to......wait for it Gus haters.......rotate QBs to lose in double OT.

There are three coaches in the NCAA right now that everyone else is looking up at - Satan, Urban, and Dat Boy. Satan has advantages with the NCAA, media and REC that no one else will ever have, not even bammer again after he's gone. Urban seems to be as untouchable, and plays in a weak league. Dat Boy caught lightning in a bottle with a magic QB, the same thing Gus is accused of doing, plays in a weak league to boot, and now we will see where he goes with this year and beyond. Harbaugh is showing signs of Sabanesque rule stretching, but doesn't have the results to show for it yet. In short, we're in the same boat as 116 or so other D-1 teams. Better off that probably 105 of them at least. Who exactly are we going to hire that can 1) Create our very own REC 2) Has pics of the NCAA pres and top brass with farm animals 3) Revive our journalism program and place AU grads in key spots everywhere from ESPN and the NYT to the Shoals Area's Times-Daily, and 4) Translate that into recruiting and on-the-field success? It's NOT Patterson or Petrino, that's for sure. 

Looking at the long game, I think our best option is to stick with Gus as long as he doesn't fall below 8-4 and recruiting stays solid until Saban retires, which won't be many more years. JJ should be gone sometime prior to that. At that point, you have a Dye-like opportunity to take the program thru a renaissance. You don't want to go into that opportunity perceived as a coaching carousel. You want to go into it as a premier job on the brink of great things, just needing a little better coach to get over the hump. 

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18 minutes ago, imaolgatiger said:

We didn't have a line of proven coaches lined up to take the job when we hired Chiz or Gus. What makes anyone believe it will be different the next time? Look at what bammer went thru post Stallings, Tenner C since Fulmer, Florida since Urban.  THUGA could find themselves in the same situation. Not saying that Gus is Beamer(and I can't stand HIM!) but look at his career and early record. In today's NZAA, you have the turds and ohio state(maybe Clemson) at the top of the food chain. Most everyone else is very close to equality. This is a product of 85 scholarships and a different set of rules that the NZAA applies to certain teams. Let's face it, we have a group of big money donors that call the shots and they aren't always accurate. That won't change post JJ or Gus.

Great post!

 

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Just a few things:

* Auburn may still win a ton of football games this year. We need to wait and see what happens. 

* I do not believe that a head coach should be fired before his last game of the season unless he is caught cheating or unless his personal conduct is hurting the university. 

* If by some chance we have a terrible year (like 3-5 in the SEC) and changes need to be made, there could be a TON of other job openings out there, even in the SEC. TAM, ARK, TN, FL, Ole Miss (already), and even MSU (if Mullen keeps winning) could be looking for new coaches - and that is just in the SEC. Nebraska, UCLA, and others will probably be looking for a new coach as well. Need to be careful what we wish for... look what happened to LSU. 

Just let the season play out. 

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40 minutes ago, TigerHorn said:

Looking at the long game, I think our best option is to stick with Gus as long as he doesn't fall below 8-4 and recruiting stays solid until Saban retires, which won't be many more years. JJ should be gone sometime prior to that. At that point, you have a Dye-like opportunity to take the program thru a renaissance. You don't want to go into that opportunity perceived as a coaching carousel. You want to go into it as a premier job on the brink of great things, just needing a little better coach to get over the hump. 

That is really what I am thinking.  Gus Malzhan is not the answer, but he can be a place holder until Saban leaves Jacobs "Retires" and the next great coach emerges say Neil Brown in 3 to 4 more years.

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46 minutes ago, TigerHorn said:

Going back a little further, look at Texas' 20 years of wandering in the wilderness after they fired Fred Akers (1 year removed from MNC contention) followed by one good year with Mack Brown, then the Charlie Strong disaster and now Latest-Hot-Coaching-Hire Herman losing to Maryland at home. Then he goes to USC, puts the Top 5 Trojans on the ropes, and proceeds to......wait for it Gus haters.......rotate QBs to lose in double OT.

There are three coaches in the NCAA right now that everyone else is looking up at - Satan, Urban, and Dat Boy. Satan has advantages with the NCAA, media and REC that no one else will ever have, not even bammer again after he's gone. Urban seems to be as untouchable, and plays in a weak league. Dat Boy caught lightning in a bottle with a magic QB, the same thing Gus is accused of doing, plays in a weak league to boot, and now we will see where he goes with this year and beyond. Harbaugh is showing signs of Sabanesque rule stretching, but doesn't have the results to show for it yet. In short, we're in the same boat as 116 or so other D-1 teams. Better off that probably 105 of them at least. Who exactly are we going to hire that can 1) Create our very own REC 2) Has pics of the NCAA pres and top brass with farm animals 3) Revive our journalism program and place AU grads in key spots everywhere from ESPN and the NYT to the Shoals Area's Times-Daily, and 4) Translate that into recruiting and on-the-field success? It's NOT Patterson or Petrino, that's for sure. 

Looking at the long game, I think our best option is to stick with Gus as long as he doesn't fall below 8-4 and recruiting stays solid until Saban retires, which won't be many more years. JJ should be gone sometime prior to that. At that point, you have a Dye-like opportunity to take the program thru a renaissance. You don't want to go into that opportunity perceived as a coaching carousel. You want to go into it as a premier job on the brink of great things, just needing a little better coach to get over the hump. 

This is a great post. Infuriating, to be sure, but great nonetheless.

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No disrespect, and I hope I'm not being a jackass ....BUT, what the hell does Nick Saban have to do with Gus' inability to field a decent, productive offense?  What impact does Saban have on Auburn's player development, fundamental training plan, roster management, offensive scheme, and game prep or play-calling?  What influence has he had on Herb Hand putting a half-way decent oline on the field that can execute, protect the QB and do their freaking job?  

Auburn's "issues" aren't Saban and just because he retires won't mean Gus will lead AU to miraculously solve the equation and be able to take the upper hand in the SEC West, beat a highly ranked P5 opponent (Clemson/Oklahoma/Wisconsin), or kick UGA's ass on the reg.>:(

I keep seeing this s*** about waiting till Saban retires, stick with a mediocre HC that is more than likely in over his freaking head in addition to being stubborn as a Missouri mule.  When the issues with the program, the attention to detail, the willingness to evolve and adjust have absolutely nothing to do with Saban being employed across the state.

Do people think Gus is so frightened and shell shocked under the tremendous pressure that his ass has is tighter than a snare drum and he can't make his team better all because of Saban?

 

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2 minutes ago, keesler said:

No disrespect, and I hope I'm not being a jackass ....BUT, what the hell does Nick Saban have to do with Gus' inability to field a decent, productive offense?  What impact does Saban have on Auburn's player development, fundamental training plan, roster management, offensive scheme, and game prep or play-calling?  What influence has he had on Herb Hand putting a half-way decent oline on the field that can execute, protect the QB and do their freaking job?  

Auburn's "issues" aren't Saban and just because he retires won't mean Gus will lead AU to miraculously solve the equation and be able to take the upper hand in the SEC West, beat a highly ranked P5 opponent (Clemson/Oklahoma/Wisconsin), or kick UGA's ass on the reg.>:(

 

If you were replying to me, you missed the point of my post. The point is that in the short term, it may be hard/impossible for us to improve on the W-L record or recruiting, and if we miss, which has been consistently shown to be more likely than not by many schools with equivalent or better resources, we run the greater long term risk to the program of missing a shot to rise again to sustained success the way we did in the 1980s. If you weren't replying to me, then never mind! :cool:

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23 minutes ago, keesler said:

 

Do people think Gus is so frightened and shell shocked under the tremendous pressure that his ass has is tighter than a snare drum and he can't make his team better all because of Saban?

 

I think it's getting tighter and tighter as each week goes by.

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