Jump to content

Stop subsidizing NFL


WDG

Recommended Posts





  • Replies 114
  • Created
  • Last Reply
29 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

I agree with not subsidizing pro sports teams that generate this much wealth for all involved, but that has nothing to do with today's events.

There is the notion that professional sports teams greatly benefit the economies of the municipalities in which they are located.  I am in favor of subsidizing venues for sports events only in cases where a quantifiable and significant benefit can be demonstrated.

On the kneeling thing... Just a group of athletes exercising their free speech.  If I came from an area I felt was under some sort of institutional duress, and I had the opportunity to bring public attention to that notion, I'd probably be doing the same thing.  They're doing it peacefully, so it doesn't affect me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, HVAU said:

There is the notion that professional sports teams greatly benefit the economies of the municipalities in which they are located.  I am in favor of subsidizing venues for sports events only in cases where a quantifiable and significant benefit can be demonstrated.

On the kneeling thing... Just a group of athletes exercising their free speech.  If I came from an area I felt was under some sort of institutional duress, and I had the opportunity to bring public attention to that notion, I'd probably be doing the same thing.  They're doing it peacefully, so it doesn't affect me.

THis all day long. It is churning some hate though. exposing some things that need exposing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So it''s OK for employees to take actions to insult their employer's customers as long as they do it peacefully?   Gotta be kidding.    Waiting the see the first techie at Best Buy wearing a Make America Great Again shirt to work and see how long he has a job.     I'm betting there is majority of attendees in just about every stadium who did not pay $100+ for a ticket to watch some millionaire exercising his first amendment rights. 

The greedy guys running the NFL are to weak willed to deal with the issue and I guess that since most tickets are pre-sold for the season, they figure that this will blow over before their fans have to write those big checks again for 2018 but not so sure that's true.

Really eager to see what NFL does to try and win back those fans....more military recognition...maybe have a group of those kneeling players go up to the color guard and thank them for their service or something.? 

Me.....I'm expecting more and more empty seats if this keeps up....especially at stadiums when some teams get to 1-5 and folks decide to eat the ticket prices rather than pay another few hundred bucks for parking and concessions to watch these protestors play bad football.   The resistance to this "movement" is just getting started in my view.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It was first suggested in 1891.

 

According to multiple sources from the turn of the century, the custom of standing during the American national anthem goes back to a West Point ceremony in 1891. However, it the history of its observance more complex, and the tradition of NFL players standing for the anthem dates back to only 2009.

 

Background

Due in part to the decision of a number of sports figures to not stand during the national anthem, there have been a number of recent pieces on the tradition of standing for the anthem. Very few discuss the history of standing for the anthem, which goes back many years, but is still more recent than many might imagine.

 

Issues and Analysis

While the Star-Spangled banner was not designated by the president as the national anthem until 1916, and not by Congress until 1931, the anthem was long favored by the military. As the civil war broke out, the anthem took on a specific significance: the song's insistence that a single flag wave over the "land of the free" seemed fitting for a war the North saw as both about national unity and slavery. It became known as the "Song of the Union" and the elder Oliver Wendell Holmes even wrote an additional verse to it, calling out the treason and injustice of the South directly:

 

When our land is illumined with liberty's smile,

If a foe from within strike a blow at her glory,

Down, down with the traitor that dares to defile

The flag of her stars and the page of her story!

By the millions unchained, who our birthright have gained

Will keep her bright blazon forever unstained!

And the Star-Spangled Banner in triumph shall wave,

While the land of the free is the home of the brave.

 

-- From the Sunbury American, June 29, 1861.

3w1mTey4ZrRUV2bHo6z-qJRVG8I8vrkq10PypD-l

 

 

After the war, the song remained the unofficial anthem of the U.S. military.

 

Standing during the anthem, however, was not a tradition until until long after the song obtained prominence. An 1891 article in Arthur's Home Magazine decried the way the American public treated the song. According to the article, less than half the audience recognized the tune when played. The article suggested that by use of some outward action those who recognized the song should call attention to its importance.

 

dtmqYCTGU5HhLH1SMkxkN9PQCF7ae7xoq60uDMrD

 

The journal then suggested that the public should follow the example of Senator Julius C. Burrows, who had recently implored the audience to stand during the anthem at a West Point graduation to resounding success.

 

This 1891 incident at West Point is also recounted in a 1917 history of Senator Burrows:

 

Toward the close of his speech Burrows said, "Soldiers should not be heedless to the sentiment of their songs and to the music of their bands. ... I would like to see every true American, soldier or citizen, when he hears the grand notes of our National air, rise to his feet in patriotic recognition and uncover."

 

Almost instantly the band began to play the "Star Spangled Banner," and Colonel Wilson, the Superintendent, and the entire battalion of cadets responded to Burrows patriotic suggestion by springing to their feet with a common impulse, which action was followed by every person in the audience, and all stood with bowed heads until the last note had ceased. It was an impressive sight, and attracted much public attention. Later, as a result of Senator Burrows agitation, the Army Regulations were made to prescribe this action, but it required no legislation to have the custom become universally popular. To Burrows, then, belongs the credit of first suggesting what has now become an unwritten law of the Nation.

 

In addition to the article in Arthur's Home Magazine, the event is said to have received broad notice. Similar events followed. Two years later in Tacoma, Washington, Rossell G. O'Brien proposed a motion that those in attendance at the Order of the Loyal Legion remove their hats and stand for the anthem. By 1900, the Republican Party was standing up for the anthem at their convention.

 

dvekD0LYfo-nEQs4BDTWq0kxj8HFP_QbZKIpcnES

 

By the turn of the century, partially at the urging of Senator Burrows, standing during the anthem was made a requirement for military personnel at events attended by them in their official capacity. This honor was to be reciprocated to the anthems of other nations as well.

 

"When the Star Spangled Banner is played by the band on a formal occasion at a military station, or at any place where persons belonging to the military service are present in their official capacity, all officers and enlisted men present will stand to attention. The same respect will be observed toward the national air of any other country when it is played as a compliment to official representatives of such country. Paragraph 383, Regulations, U. S. Army, Ed. 1904.

 

On the promotion of the song to an official anthem of the Army and Navy in 1916, some cities began to adopt codes to designate how the anthem should be performed. Performers of the anthem were compelled to stand in Baltimore, though no mention of the audience being compelled to stand was mentioned. Others protested the adoption of the song.

 

Euad7i4pMeXKHax8qOtic_bDasJSLa1pjdFH5szY

 

Much of the interest in the anthem in 1916/17 came out of the new nationalism of World War I. The significance of the anthem grew in the 1918 World Series. Originally slated to be cancelled out of respect for those in uniform, the series was revived when it was found out that soldiers overseas had been looking forward to hearing the results of it. As was usual in Boston, the anthem was played in the seventh-inning stretch. Perhaps because the anthem was played during the stretch, and not the beginning, the audience rose to their feet along with the players and sang along.

 

IVrSrQhj3v-0hoFc-HO-H5UkV8GGhV8B7dhz7-mq

(From Philadelphia Inquirer)

 

Perhaps to quell the fears that attending a baseball game during wartime was unpatriotic, the New York Times spent several paragraphs recounting the scene in 1918:

 

 

"As the crowd of 10,274 spectators — the smallest that has witnessed the diamond classic in many years — stood up to take their afternoon yawn, that has been the privilege and custom of baseball fans for many generations, the band broke forth to the strains of 'The Star-Spangled Banner.'

 

"The yawn was checked and heads were bared as the ball players turned quickly about and faced the music. Jackie Fred Thomas of the U.S. Navy was at attention, as he stood erect, with his eyes set on the flag fluttering at the top of the lofty pole in right field. First the song was taken up by a few, then others joined, and when the final notes came, a great volume of melody rolled across the field. It was at the very end that the onlookers exploded into thunderous applause and rent the air with a cheer that marked the highest point of the day's enthusiasm."

 

While a number of accounts cite this as being the beginning of using the anthem in sports, the anthem had actually been used for a number of years prior. The standing, however, seems to have been new. Here is a an account from two years prior, in the 1916 World series, when the custom was merely to remove one's hat.

 

6vgCd3xA5-jP6c0I953sYofp7GDAfMXtUqCdwU38

 

Over time, the national anthem would become a fixture of baseball, although its observance and importance varied over the years. This tradition later moved into football.

 

The specific tradition of football players standing on the sidelines during the national anthem is much more recent. While there may have been individual displays of this going back many years, the tradition of players standing on field for the Star-Spangled Banner dates back to only 2009:

 

Regardless of where one stands RE: Colin Kaepernick deciding to sit out the "Star-Spangled Banner" one shouldn't be misled into thinking this is a longstanding tradition Kaepernick is sitting out.

...

NFL spokesman Brian McCarthy confirmed this morning the practice began in 2009, adding, "As you know, the NFL has a long tradition of patriotism. Players are encouraged but not required to stand for the anthem.

Before 2009, teams would generally wait out the national anthem in the locker room. While it is not clear why the change was made, it's noteworthy that the military has a history of paying the NFL for sponsored acts of patriotism, and it's possible this may have had some influence on the perpetuation of the practice.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, AU64 said:

So it''s OK for employees to take actions to insult their employer's customers as long as they do it peacefully?   Gotta be kidding.    Waiting the see the first techie at Best Buy wearing a Make America Great Again shirt to work and see how long he has a job.     I'm betting there is majority of attendees in just about every stadium who did not pay $100+ for a ticket to watch some millionaire exercising his first amendment rights. 

The greedy guys running the NFL are to weak willed to deal with the issue and I guess that since most tickets are pre-sold for the season, they figure that this will blow over before their fans have to write those big checks again for 2018 but not so sure that's true.

Really eager to see what NFL does to try and win back those fans....more military recognition...maybe have a group of those kneeling players go up to the color guard and thank them for their service or something.? 

Me.....I'm expecting more and more empty seats if this keeps up....especially at stadiums when some teams get to 1-5 and folks decide to eat the ticket prices rather than pay another few hundred bucks for parking and concessions to watch these protestors play bad football.   The resistance to this "movement" is just getting started in my view.

Amen. These guys are making millions, 90% are black so what's the beef? Like Pres. Trump said as our CIC, show respect for our military, if they can't respect the price paid by so many others, fire the SOBs

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The NFL doesn't have the leverage that most businesses have over their employees.  Without those employees, with extremely rare and valuable athletic skillets, there would not be an NFL level product.  Few business models are comparable to the NFL, therefore, your comparison isn't really valid.

 

Also, you're complaining about a two minute portion of a three hour long production.  A portion that, as mentioned by previous posts, did not require the players to participate in until recently.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, HVAU said:

The NFL doesn't have the leverage that most businesses have over their employees.  Without those employees, with extremely rare and valuable athletic skillets, there would not be an NFL level product.  Few business models are comparable to the NFL, therefore, your comparison isn't really valid.

 

Also, you're complaining about a two minute portion of a three hour long production.  A portion that, as mentioned by previous posts, did not require the players to participate in until recently.

 

So you think NFL FB is moore important than showing the respect for our flag that lots of people have died for? Lots of damage can be done in two minutes  by these athletes are employees like any other business. Thank good ness for Jerry Jones (Cowboys).

https://www.waynedupree.com/jerry-jones-cowboys-will-stand-for-the-flag-or-your-ass-will-be-off-the-team/

Clark Hunt of the KC Chiefs have saif =d the same thing. I guarantee you if the owners took a hard line with these players the crap  would stop.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

43 minutes ago, Proud Tiger said:

These guys are making millions, 90% are black so what's the beef? Like

So, in a hypothetical scenario, you make it out of a rough neighborhood, like many of these young men, you go on to fame and  wealth, do you:

A. Forget about whatever struggles the people in your community might still be dealing with and just enjoy wealth?

B. Try to use your visible position to call attention to problems in your community?

 

...or, how about this one...

You are an unqualified, cheating real estate mogul that was raised with a silver spoon in your mouth, and promoted to wealth by your father's money and connections.  You somehow backdoor your way into the Whitehouse using a variety of populist rhetoric that is divisive, offensive and borderline racist, but it wasn't too difficult given the plethora of brain dead politicians, Fox news viewers and Russian oligarch dollars floating around.

You have a possible nuclear crisis on your hands, a major healthcare law in the works, which you don't seem the interested in even appearing to understand, and a pesky investigation surrounding those Russian oligarch dollars.  Do you:

A. Focus on the complex issues at hand?

B. Take to Twitter like a teenage girl and complain about mean football players kneeling instead of standing for the National Anthem?

C. Call the leader of the nation involved in the potential nuclear crisis sophomoric names via Twitter, further exacerbating the crisis?

D. Call the pesky investigation a joke and a hoax via Twitter despite every other outlet and institution treating the allegations as very troublesome problems?

E. Hold a big rally to make yourself feel good, and tell all good your mindless followers what an awesome guy you are, with great big audience numbers and great big hands?

*Hint-it's a trick question.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Proud Tiger said:

So you think NFL FB is moore important than showing the respect for our flag that lots of people have died for? Lots of damage can be done in two minutes  by these athletes are employees like any other business. Thank good ness for Jerry Jones (Cowboys).

https://www.waynedupree.com/jerry-jones-cowboys-will-stand-for-the-flag-or-your-ass-will-be-off-the-team/

Clark Hunt of the KC Chiefs have saif =d the same thing. I guarantee you if the owners took a hard line with these players the crap  would stop.

People didn't fight for the flag.  Nobody fights for a flag.  They fight what is represented by the flag.  In the case of the United States, freedom.  One of those freedoms is being exercised by those players.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

LOL. You are broadening the scenario way beyond the issue at hand IMHO. The owners are all rich guys. They don't need an NFL team. If they took a hard line and the team looked like it might go downhill the cities would be on their knees begging them to stay. If the owners fired some of thes guys where would that leave them in life?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, HVAU said:

People didn't fight for the flag.  Nobody fights for a flag.  They fight what is represented by the flag.  In the case of the United States, freedom.  One of those freedoms is being exercised by those players.  

As a vet i respectfully disagree. Those guys on Iwo Jima fought to raise a flag.. As they say, exercising freedom comes with responsibility. Think of the influence they are having on younger kids, black kids in particular.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I respect your service.  I still believe, however, that the fight to raise that flag had very little do with a piece of cloth with stars and stripes on it, and much to do with what that cloth represents.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, HVAU said:

I respect your service.  I still believe, however, that the fight to raise that flag had very little do with a piece of cloth with stars and stripes on it, and much to do with what that cloth represents.

I agree but is just like the tattered flag left after the British bombardment of Ft. Mc Henry that inspired our National Anthem But as I see it these players are showing disrespect for what it represents.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, AU64 said:

So it''s OK for employees to take actions to insult their employer's customers as long as they do it peacefully?   Gotta be kidding.    Waiting the see the first techie at Best Buy wearing a Make America Great Again shirt to work and see how long he has a job.     I'm betting there is majority of attendees in just about every stadium who did not pay $100+ for a ticket to watch some millionaire exercising his first amendment rights. 

The greedy guys running the NFL are to weak willed to deal with the issue and I guess that since most tickets are pre-sold for the season, they figure that this will blow over before their fans have to write those big checks again for 2018 but not so sure that's true.

Really eager to see what NFL does to try and win back those fans....more military recognition...maybe have a group of those kneeling players go up to the color guard and thank them for their service or something.? 

Me.....I'm expecting more and more empty seats if this keeps up....especially at stadiums when some teams get to 1-5 and folks decide to eat the ticket prices rather than pay another few hundred bucks for parking and concessions to watch these protestors play bad football.   The resistance to this "movement" is just getting started in my view.

Why are you assuming their "employee's customers" aren't receptive to their message?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, Proud Tiger said:

I agree but is just like the tattered flag left after the British bombardment of Ft. Mc Henry that inspired our National Anthem But as I see it these players are showing disrespect for what it represents.

Actually, that's exactly what you are doing.

Ironic.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Why are you assuming their "employee's customers" aren't receptive to their message?

Some might be but why needlessly antagonize the ones who are offended ?   It is downright stupid to even venture into that arena. Politics is pretty split so any time a business gets into politics the odds are that half of their patrons...maybe more are gonna vote with their feet or pocketbook.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There could have probably been more effective and appropriate ways to protest to get their voice heard than kneeling during the anthem and flag. Everybody is talking about the flag, respect, etc. and not really what the original intent was. 

I personally find it disrespectful, especially when it's a bunch of millionaire sports players and I just want to watch sports. But I don't lose sleep over it. 

I also get where there is still inequality in areas and that needs to change, but sometimes I wonder if they realize that if they were to do this in some countries they'd be executed and tortured. The beauty of this country is that we are free to disrespect it and talk trash about our leaders and all they can really do is talk trash back on social media. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, alexava said:

Image may contain: text

Maybe my brain is addled, I seem to remember teams being on the field before and during the anthem after 9/11.

Maybe the point is it wasn't required then? but teams chose to do it after 9/11?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, alexava said:

Image may contain: text

Shame that people view patriotism and politics as equals. Respect for the country that provides you freedom is not some form of political injection. It's a feeling we should all share. 

But if we want to discuss the NFL's stance on freedom of speech, perhaps we should examine Tebow being run out of the league for his display, or the Cowboys not being able to wear stickers on their helmets commemorating police officers.

Politics has no place in professional sports, but patriotism has a place in every aspect of our lives.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just to be clear,  I couldn’t care less if we stopped singing he National Anthem before the games just to avoid these protests. I consider it nothing more than patriotic propaganda and needless to the sport. Surely the parties are mature enough to settle this civilly, though, without having to stoop down to make such changes. 

Whatever the case, the mere existence of patriotic propaganda in the sports realm isn’t an open invitation to the left to usher in slanted and divisive politics into the Eastern Sports Programming Network. Politics is inherently divisive and ends up in heated arguments. If the ESPN talking heads want to alienate half of their fanbase by labeling the Trumpsters, let them. It’s not going to impact my bottom line. 

Also, While it is true that our military “didn’t fight for the flag,’” the flag still (at the very least) remains a symbol of sacrifice for the ones who died in combat. Why can’t we just give the flag some respect? Do the protest and move on. It’s been well over a year since Kaep decided to kneel and the end is nowhere in sight. Does anybody even know the endgame for these protests? What changes have to be made for the protests to stop? Surely it’s not to get a bum QB a job? 

Lastly, Titan’s Facebook fodder is false. Our service members didn’t swear to stand behind every political protest. That’s straight horse hockey. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, caleb1633 said:

Shame that people view patriotism and politics as equals. Respect for the country that provides you freedom is not some form of political injection. It's a feeling we should all share. 

But if we want to discuss the NFL's stance on freedom of speech, perhaps we should examine Tebow being run out of the league for his display, or the Cowboys not being able to wear stickers on their helmets commemorating police officers.

Politics has no place in professional sports, but patriotism has a place in every aspect of our lives.

Tebow wasn't run out for his display! Unless you mean his display of a slow release and inaccurate arm. I see much more bitching about his criticism than I saw of his criticism. 

I don't agree with the kneeling. I think police brutality towards black people exists but is way overblown. I am not angry about the protests, never have been. I support their right to PEACEFUL demonstration. The fact it is peaceful gets left out much of the time. We have become too much of an us vs them society. As far as police vs black people, I believe it's overplayed. But just the fact that so many black people feel targeted and mistreated makes it everybody's problem whether it's real or imagined. 

This moron president we have is no help at all. And people wonder why Mueller is so damn popular. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, Proud Tiger said:

So you think NFL FB is moore important than showing the respect for our flag that lots of people have died for? Lots of damage can be done in two minutes  by these athletes are employees like any other business. Thank good ness for Jerry Jones (Cowboys).

https://www.waynedupree.com/jerry-jones-cowboys-will-stand-for-the-flag-or-your-ass-will-be-off-the-team/

Clark Hunt of the KC Chiefs have saif =d the same thing. I guarantee you if the owners took a hard line with these players the crap  would stop.

Please research this. You will find it is pure bullsheyt. http://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/for-petes-sake/article171726982.html

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.




×
×
  • Create New...