Stop subsidizing NFL

[AURex 1,994]

First, personally, I have never understood why we must be subjected to patriotic music before a sporting event. It's not like sports are somehow specially patriotic events. These are not political rallies. So, ya know, if you just quit playing that music, the issue disappears.

Second, how many of you jump to attention in front of the TV with hand over heart as they start pumping that music? I'm gonna bet not a single one. You lounge back with your beer and talk or criticize the proceedings. If you don't stand and profess your patriotism, who are you to complain about whether others do?

Finally, 8 million Jehovah's Witnesses refuse to stand for "the flag." 200,000 Amish do not stand for the national anthem. But a few black guys kneel respectfully and look who goes ballistic. And just looking at who goes ballistic tells us why they are kneeling.

 

[aujeff11 6,243]

1 hour ago, AURex said:

 

First, personally, I have never understood why we must be subjected to patriotic music before a sporting event. It's not like sports are somehow specially patriotic events.

 

If we decided to stop everything that could possibly offend anybody, we wouldn’t have much of any culture left. If that is needed, though, so be it. Hell, we can be like France and ban the cross along with the hijab as well. 

1 hour ago, AURex said:

Second, how many of you jump to attention in front of the TV with hand over heart as they start pumping that music? I'm gonna bet not a single one.

WTF? That’s not disrespecting the flag. I would think you were retarded if you jumped up in my house to stand at attention over the national anthem being played on the tube. 

1 hour ago, AURex said:

Finally, 8 million Jehovah's Witnesses refuse to stand for "the flag." 200,000 Amish do not stand for the national anthem.

Why should I care about the Jehovah Witnesses or the Amish?  Do they attend such events? Religious objections are different than whimsical objections over perceived slights and the two groups carry themselves as such. Yes, I said whimsical. The police brutality problem on black Americans is overblown and Kaepernick said himself that he’d stop kneeling as soon as he was picked up by anoher team, so why should I care about the protest that he started?  I’d say that the NFL should find another vehicle of protest that can carry their message, but I guess that is too complicated. In essence-JW’s and Amish are being neutral to the flag, the protesters, not so much. 

[cptau 169]

On 9/24/2017 at 7:43 PM, alexava said:

 

 

NFL has had the teams on the field for the national anthem way before 2009.....   

 

Super Bowl VII 1973 is an example...........

 

[alexava 6,973]

7 hours ago, cptau said:

 

 

NFL has had the teams on the field for the national anthem way before 2009.....   

 

Super Bowl VII 1973 is an example...........

 

Not every game..

[alexava 6,973]

9 hours ago, aujeff11 said:

If we decided to stop everything that could possibly offend anybody, we wouldn’t have much of any culture left. If that is needed, though, so be it. Hell, we can be like France and ban the cross along with the hijab as well. 

WTF? That’s not disrespecting the flag. I would think you were retarded if you jumped up in my house to stand at attention over the national anthem being played on the tube. 

Why should I care about the Jehovah Witnesses or the Amish?  Do they attend such events? Religious objections are different than whimsical objections over perceived slights and the two groups carry themselves as such. Yes, I said whimsical. The police brutality problem on black Americans is overblown and Kaepernick said himself that he’d stop kneeling as soon as he was picked up by anoher team, so why should I care about the protest that he started?  I’d say that the NFL should find another vehicle of protest that can carry their message, but I guess that is too complicated. In essence-JW’s and Amish are being neutral to the flag, the protesters, not so much. 

 

[alexava 6,973]

If you still can't see the "neutrality" toward the flag after watching this you chose to be that way. 

[alexava 6,973]

Too much racism being disguised as patriotism for me to stomach these days.

[aujeff11 6,243]

2 minutes ago, alexava said:

If you still can't see the "neutrality" toward the flag after watching this you chose to be that way. 

They’re protesting to a flag that did nothing to them. It’s obviously not neutral. 

[alexava 6,973]

1 minute ago, aujeff11 said:

They’re protesting to a flag that did nothing to them. It’s obviously not neutral. 

please dude

[aujeff11 6,243]

5 minutes ago, alexava said:

please dude

Protesting the flag doesn’t = neutrality to it. Sorry if that stubborn fact bothers you.

[alexava 6,973]

 

4 minutes ago, aujeff11 said:

Protesting the flag doesn’t = neutrality to it. Sorry if that stubborn fact bothers you.

Stubborn? wow. Did you watch the video?

[aujeff11 6,243]

29 minutes ago, alexava said:

 

Stubborn? wow. Did you watch the video?

The video is irrelevant to what I’m saying What about the video? Protesting is the action of expressing disapproval of something. The action makes it non neutral. When the JWs refuse to salute, they are not doing it out of protest but out of moral and religious code. They’re not in disapproval of the flag. The flag is neutral to them.

[HVAU 673]

38 minutes ago, aujeff11 said:

They’re protesting to a flag that did nothing to them. It’s obviously not neutral. 

Flags typically don't do anything, however, the nations and their institutions, represented by the flag, are capable of harming individuals, communities, other nations, etc.  

The kneelers are using the patriotic ceremony to point out injustice in their communities.  It's not disrespectful, it's not a slap in the face to veterans and soldiers.  It's engaging in a spirit of change that is indicated, and celebrated, in the Declaration of Independence.  Calling out tyranny and oppression is American to the core.

The Right's perpetual, willful obtuseness in this matter is silly.  

[aujeff11 6,243]

5 minutes ago, HVAU said:

Flags typically don't do anything, however, the nations and their institutions, represented by the flag, are capable of harming individuals, communities, other nations, etc. 

Exactly 

 

7 minutes ago, HVAU said:

The kneelers are using the patriotic ceremony to point out injustice in their communities

What injustices? Voter ID laws? 

 

9 minutes ago, HVAU said:

The Right's perpetual, willful obtuseness in this matter is silly.  

And the left’s willful misrepresentation of the facts and what’s at stake is just as “silly.”

8 minutes ago, HVAU said:

Calling out tyranny and oppression is American to the core.

What tyranny? If Kaep is willing to stop kneeling if he gets signed, the tyranny cannot be too bad or is he just a sell-out? 

7 minutes ago, HVAU said:

It's not disrespectful, it's not a slap in the face to veterans and soldiers.

That’s not for you to decide. 

[alexava 6,973]

10 minutes ago, aujeff11 said:

Exactly 

 

What injustices? Voter ID laws? 

 

And the left’s willful misrepresentation of the facts and what’s at stake is just as “silly.”

What tyranny? If Kaep is willing to stop kneeling if he gets signed, the tyranny cannot be too bad or is he just a sell-out? 

That’s not for you to decide. 

It's not for you to decide either if you don't watch the damn video. 

[aujeff11 6,243]

22 minutes ago, alexava said:

It's not for you to decide either if you don't watch the damn video. 

I have watched the video about three times now since the libs have pointed to the video as if it’s the gospel. What is your point? It still has zero to do with our discussion.

This is not neutrality toward the flag. 

[aujeff11 6,243]

Itchy knock yourself out.

[HVAU 673]

1 hour ago, aujeff11 said:

Exactly 

 

What injustices? Voter ID laws? 

 

And the left’s willful misrepresentation of the facts and what’s at stake is just as “silly.”

What tyranny? If Kaep is willing to stop kneeling if he gets signed, the tyranny cannot be too bad or is he just a sell-out? 

That’s not for you to decide. 

"What injustice" and "what tyranny" remarks are more willful obtuseness.  Like I said before, without really knowing you, your other conversations lead me to believe that you're more intelligent than that, but if you really need it spelled ok.

The Journal of Public Health released a study last year indicating that black and Hispanic Americans were, respectively, three and two times more likely to die as a result of police force than white Americans.  That is fact.

Similarly, studies have also found that black drivers are 20% more likely to be stopped by police in a discretionary manner.  In other words, racially profiled.

Now, the right can point to the higher rates of crime in minority communities and that's a fair topic to discuss.  There's a whole can of worms we could discuss there if you want to.

But for you or people on the right to play coy about exactly what the purpose of their protest is is asinine.

On top of that you posted a quote that literally states "to show pride in a flag FOR a country that".  This indicates that Kaep understands the flag to be a representation of the nation.  It's, again, willful self delusion that you don't.

[aujeff11 6,243]

3 minutes ago, HVAU said:

The Journal of Public Health released a study last year indicating that black and Hispanic Americans were, respectively, three and two times more likely to die as a result of police force than white Americans.

They’re also far more likely to commit violent crimes. It goes hand in hand, really. 

If you’re going to claim racism, bring me rock hard evidence of foul play.

12 minutes ago, HVAU said:

Similarly, studies have also found that black drivers are 20% more likely to be stopped by police in a discretionary manner.  In other words, racially profiled.

Link it.

I’m not blindly accepting facts from “similar studies” from you when it’s becoming evident that you’re willing to slant facts and twist the meaning of them.

13 minutes ago, HVAU said:

But for you or people on the right to play coy about exactly what the purpose of their protest is is asinine.

 

The facts don’t back the justifications for protest, cupcake. And let’s not forget that their platform wasn’t very clear for months and was vague for months. 

Michael Bennett clearly said his incident of so-called racism was the sole reason for him kneeling during the Anthem, but yet the video justifys the police and their story. 

21 minutes ago, HVAU said:

This indicates that Kaep understands the flag to be a representation of the nation

  I love how you cherry picked out that he “wasn’t going to stand up and show pride for the flag.” If it’s not about the flag, don’t use it. 

 

26 minutes ago, HVAU said:

What injustice" and "what tyranny" remarks are more willful obtuseness. 

I don’t see any tyranny in America. We are 99% free according to FreedomHouse. 

 

 

[HVAU 673]

I wonder if you even did a search for the JPH article.  We're not going to see eye to eye on this, so there is no point in me linking articles and studies that you won't read. Your gentle ad hominem is very sweet though.  I do believe I've misjudged you to be less partisan than you are. 

See you next time. 

[alexava 6,973]

I THINK the "oppression" is maybe 10% real and 90% imagined. But im white and raised by an LEO. many of my friends are law enforcement. I have also lived in this same little corner of the world my entire life. The fact it is believed by 90+% of black people makes it EVERYBODY'S problem. I have no tolerance for crime, especially repeated criminals, any race even family. I won't tolerate rioting and looting and molitov cocktails. I would mow them all down instantly. I guess that is the inner racist in me i don't want to believe exists. But these players ain't hurting a DAMN THING taking a knee. Kaepernick, who i don't really even like even went to the trouble to meet with a veteran and took his advice to kneel respectively and got the others to follow suit. If you still have a problem with this show of solidarity that they have adjusted to convince the masses they mean no disrespect...... Then you are not a patriot offended about the flag or anthem. You have a problem with black men that seem out of control.(maybe like i do with the rioting) Don't hide behind patriotism. It's a whole different "ism" that is driving you. If i was in the NFL, starting about two weeks ago i would kneel with them.

[aujeff11 6,243]

22 minutes ago, HVAU said:

wonder if you even did a search for the JPH article.

I’ve heard the tired argument over and over. Only 16 unarmed black Americans died by police force. That’s not a high number and even with that number, we still don’t know how many of those were justified. The rest were armed and dangerous. I wonder if you even know what a UCR is? 

 

22 minutes ago, HVAU said:

I do believe I've misjudged you to be less partisan than you are

I see things both ways. I’m not going to stand behind a hollow protest with no clear objective other than utopian dreams when there are real issues at hand. Like the number of black homicide victims easily rising above the number of white homicide victims despite the significant disparity in population size. Or the number of black babies that is slaughtered every year. That crap matters.

As far as partisanship, I might surprise you. If you want to evoke the first amendment, do so. Doesn’t apply at the workplace, but then again, the only person that seems to understand that is Rishard Matthews. 

[aujeff11 6,243]

11 minutes ago, alexava said:

I THINK the "oppression" is maybe 10% real and 90% imagined. But im white and raised by an LEO. many of my friends are law enforcement. I have also lived in this same little corner of the world my entire life. The fact it is believed by 90+% of black people makes it EVERYBODY'S problem. I have no tolerance for crime, especially repeated criminals, any race even family. I won't tolerate rioting and looting and molitov cocktails. I would mow them all down instantly. I guess that is the inner racist in me i don't want to believe exists. But these players ain't hurting a DAMN THING taking a knee. Kaepernick, who i don't really even like even went to the trouble to meet with a veteran and took his advice to kneel respectively and got the others to follow suit. If you still have a problem with this show of solidarity that they have adjusted to convince the masses they mean no disrespect...... Then you are not a patriot offended about the flag or anthem. You have a problem with black men that seem out of control.(maybe like i do with the rioting) Don't hide behind patriotism. It's a whole different "ism" that is driving you. If i was in the NFL, starting about two weeks ago i would kneel with them.

Your inner racist is showing ☹️

[cptau 169]

Suppose you had a service contract with a local business for maintenance and repairs around your house.  The repairman appears at your home in a company truck with an objectionable bumper sticker placed by the repairman.   Then the repairman who you are paying for by the hour decides to spend 10 minutes expercising his freedom of speech by protesting about his working conditions and his life in general before accomplishing any work.   You write it off the first time, but he continues doing it the next maintenance visit.  Perhaps his complaints are even valid to some extent.  

How long do you continue paying to watch and listen to complaining?

 

 

[cptau 169]

Antonio Brown paid $11,576 for exercising his 1st amendment right of free speech/ expression by jumping on a goal post..    The NFL felt fans didn’t want to see this