My Take on North Korea

[Malcolm_FleX48 1,869]

I know I'm not known for these types of posts, but I figured I'd weigh in on the lack of logic in the handling of North Korea over the past few years and question our choices going forward. Bear with me.

 

 

 

I'm sure glad that all our 'Condemnation' is doing a great job of bringing down the DPRK. Man, 15+ years of this stuff SURE has been effective. People in DC don't understand that SANCTIONS WILL NOT WORK against North Korea. They're still finding ways to get money and funding. Not only that, but any funding that they get is going into their nuclear missile program. It's like watching a gambler on his last leg, getting money from ALL of his available sources and dumping all his money on black expecting to get lucky….. Except the DPRK has a greater chance of striking big, as its only a matter of time.

Let's look at past ways that we've handled this situation.

Clinton - "Looks like North Korea wants to develop a Nuclear Weapon program? Let's give them some Uranium and material to help them develop nuclear energy in hopes that they won't use it to develop that nuclear program that it's CLEAR that they want and just give us their word to only use it for energy."

10/10 brilliant plan.

Bush - "Looks like North Korea has been testing their nukes even though we told them not to… Welp, I guess we're just going to ignore them because it's just ONE nuclear test. What's the worst that could happen?"

9/10 excellent continuation

Obama - "Well, I see North Korea has crossed SEVERAL RED LINES in spite of the sanctions that we've levied on them…. Hmm, I guess we should probably "condemn" and levy more sanctions on them. That'll work."

10/10 Flawless logic.

Now let's go to DC to currently take a look at what our AMAZING MINDS are suggesting. "Let's sanction them more, antagonize Russia, and condemn them again." That'll work. That's ALL we need to do to stop them…..  HOLY FU-

Insanity is doing the same thing you've always done and expecting a different result. Their Juche' model of the economy is YES very detrimental to them and will continue to hemorrhage money, however, the problem is, OUR SANCTIONS DON'T WORK and they're not collapsing anytime soon. Kim Jong Un is not stupid, nor is he crazy. He is European educated and knows that the "Crazy Man" Act has been working for almost 2 full decades and is continuing to work, so why would he go away from it. Hell, it even got him free Uranium a couple of times. China has been pacifying them because of this act (To their credit, they've stopped doing this.) and it keeps foreign leaders from actually doing anything while North Korea buys time to develop a nuclear deterrent. (Either Sub-based or ICBM mounted). Once they get this deterrent, they can actively invade the ROK, absorb their working economy, resources, scientists, and finally create a working stockpile of nuclear weapons… At that point, all of these crazy threats that the DPRK typically makes won't seem so crazy anymore. But Nah, just RAMP UP THE SANCTIONS. Because they've worked so splendidly in the past.

And while I'm on the subject, WHAT sort of twilight zone world do we live in where a STATE ACTOR actually makes threats on the regular, militantly conducts nuclear and ballistic tests above ground, and to the knowledge of everyone, and oppresses its own people blatantly, and only receive "condemnation"? Does that even make sense? Does this seem like a nation that you can reason with and shame into doing the right thing? Hell, we invaded Libya and deposed Gadhafi for less. But the DPRK? Oh no, let's not do anything to them. Our leaders are IDIOTS. Even Trump isn't doing enough, (Though state co-opted media will have you thinking he's insane and trying to get us nuked off of the face of the earth.)

So my question is, do you want the West Coast of the US to eventually be "Bathed in nuclear hellfire"? Because not acting is the way you get the West Coast bathed in nuclear hellfire.

[aujeff11 6,243]

Our missile defense agency will be ready if and whenever they do try to shoot them at the west coast. 

[alexava 6,973]

"Catastrophic........" Jim Mattis

[caleb1633 1,418]

Comparing North Korea to Libya is apples to oranges. If any kinetic actions involving North Korea take place, Seoul is gone, and maybe parts of Japan. We don't know what KJU is capable of because it's exceedingly difficult to infiltrate NK.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

23 hours ago, Malcolm_FleX48 said:

So my question is, do you want the West Coast of the US to eventually be "Bathed in nuclear hellfire"? Because not acting is the way you get the West Coast bathed in nuclear hellfire.
 

Maybe bathing the West Coast wouldn't be bad. It would eliminate a huge portion of our liberal population and destroy Hollywood. I'm kidding of course. I think Trump is handling the NK situation great. He has served notice on the worthless UN as well as Russia, China, Iran, etc., that America is no loner a ***** cat. And I think they know it.

[HVAU 673]

2 hours ago, Proud Tiger said:

Maybe bathing the West Coast wouldn't be bad. It would eliminate a huge portion of our liberal population and destroy Hollywood. I'm kidding of course. I think Trump is handling the NK situation great. He has served notice on the worthless UN as well as Russia, China, Iran, etc., that America is no loner a ***** cat. And I think they know it.

He's making a clown out of himself by engaging in an online feud with Kim Jong Un.  He is an undignified buffoon, and his presidency can't end quick enough.

I'll give him credit for one thing though... He's managed to cock up the works so much that even the worst of the GOP are having a hard time working with him.  That's a positive in my book.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

I don'[t like some things about Trump but considering the choice I had it is a no brainer. To each his own opinion, but I think he is doing a good job. Considering all the chaos in DC, I think he has accomplished a lot in 9 months. Most importantly, he got Neil Gorsuch on the Supreme Court. Gorsuch's influence will be felt long after Trump is gone.

I also think Trump's efforts have decreased illegal immigration, made it safer for us with better screening of people coming in from some countries, The economy is doing well and employment is up. The stock market is on a roll and if you aren't making a lot of money you must not be trying.

I could go on but that's enough.

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

14 minutes ago, Proud Tiger said:

I don'[t like some things about Trump but considering the choice I had it is a no brainer. To each his own opinion, but I think he is doing a good job. Considering all the chaos in DC, I think he has accomplished a lot in 9 months. Most importantly, he got Neil Gorsuch on the Supreme Court. Gorsuch's influence will be felt long after Trump is gone.

I also think Trump's efforts have decreased illegal immigration, made it safer for us with better screening of people coming in from some countries, The economy is doing well and employment is up. The stock market is on a roll and if you aren't making a lot of money you must not be trying.

I could go on but that's enough.

Illegal immigration was net neutral and declining before Trump took office.  The economy, employment rates, and stock market have been on an upswing for several years now.  But yes, let's give all of that praise to Trump, who has had very little to do with any of it.

By the way, much of the DC chaos is of his own doing.  Obamacare repeal (which is a dumb idea) probably gets passed if Trump had any political capital with the Senate.  He doesn't.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

3 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

Illegal immigration was net neutral and declining before Trump took office.  The economy, employment rates, and stock market have been on an upswing for several years now.  But yes, let's give all of that praise to Trump, who has had very little to do with any of it.

By the way, much of the DC chaos is of his own doing.  Obamacare repeal (which is a dumb idea) probably gets passed if Trump had any political capital with the Senate.  He doesn't.

Disagree. I have seen several reports that illegal immigration thru the Mexican border is down by 86% since he took off. And yeah chaos is inevitable when you try to drain the swamp.

 

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

9 minutes ago, Proud Tiger said:

Disagree. I have seen several reports that illegal immigration thru the Mexican border is down by 86% since he took off. And yeah chaos is inevitable when you try to drain the swamp.

 

These are facts by places like the Pew Research Center.  Illegal immigration has been declining for years.

http://www.pewhispanic.org/2015/11/19/more-mexicans-leaving-than-coming-to-the-u-s/

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/nov/14/martin-omalley/martin-omalley-net-migration-mexico-was-0-2014/

http://www.hoover.org/research/basic-facts-zero-illegal-immigration

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

4 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

These are facts by places like the Pew Research Center.  Illegal immigration has been declining for years.

http://www.pewhispanic.org/2015/11/19/more-mexicans-leaving-than-coming-to-the-u-s/

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/nov/14/martin-omalley/martin-omalley-net-migration-mexico-was-0-2014/

http://www.hoover.org/research/basic-facts-zero-illegal-immigration

Those numbers don't include DACA people.

 

[TitanTiger 20,471]

3 minutes ago, Proud Tiger said:

Those numbers don't include DACA people.

 

The DACA people were already here.  Among the criteria for DACA eligibility:

- have continuously resided in the U.S. from June 15, 2007 to the present.

- were physically present in the United States on June 15, 2012, and at the time of making the request for consideration of deferred action with USCIS;

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

2 minutes ago, Proud Tiger said:

Those numbers don't include DACA people.

 

Which would be a completely different conversation than illegal immigration coming through the border over the last few years as those that would fall under DACA were likely already here. 

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

4 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

Which would be a completely different conversation than illegal immigration coming through the border over the last few years as those would be fall under DACA were likely already here. 

The 86% reduction in 2017 has been along the southwest border where heavy illegal traffic comes across

[TitanTiger 20,471]

Just now, Proud Tiger said:

The 86% reduction in 2017 has been along the southwest border where heavy illegal traffic comes across

DACA still had no impact on the numbers.

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

Just now, Proud Tiger said:

The 86% reduction in 2017 has been along the southwest border where heavy illegal traffic comes across

I don't doubt that a reduction is happening, but my point remains that this is not a new phenomenon.  It's literally been declining for years now.

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

To my earlier point, Obama had been deporting folks like crazy:

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/obamas-deportation-policy-numbers/story?id=41715661

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

6 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

I don't doubt that a reduction is happening, but my point remains that this is not a new phenomenon.  It's literally been declining for years now.

But not 86% in 8 months

[AuburnNTexas 7,127]

Sanctions by previous presidents didn't work because to many countries especially China and Russia did not follow through and the previous Presidents didn't threaten them with sanctions. Trump has gotten more cooperation from China and Russia then the last 4 President's combined. The problem is by the time Trump came in the nuclear Program was so far along it was to late.

I am not excusing Trump for his bombastic tweeting with North Korea as that could force a confrontation we would win but South Korea, North Korea and Japan would all be decimated. Trump like him or hate him did realize unless there was a threat of sanctions against the countries that ignored the sanctions against North Korea that the sanctions really didn't have any real impact. If starting 24 years ago or more if the sanctions had really been enforced North Korea would have had much less money to put into the program and while they might still be trying to build a nuclear program they would not be anyplace close to where they are now.  

At this point we have to hope the North Korean mad man is smart enough to realize if he attacks he is dead.  If he does attack and use nuclear weapons then the fallout from those weapons hitting South Korea, Japan and possible retaliation from the US in North Korea will affect all of Asia including the Chinese.

[Malcolm_FleX48 1,869]

16 hours ago, AuburnNTexas said:

Sanctions by previous presidents didn't work because to many countries especially China and Russia did not follow through and the previous Presidents didn't threaten them with sanctions. Trump has gotten more cooperation from China and Russia then the last 4 President's combined. The problem is by the time Trump came in the nuclear Program was so far along it was to late.

I am not excusing Trump for his bombastic tweeting with North Korea as that could force a confrontation we would win but South Korea, North Korea and Japan would all be decimated. Trump like him or hate him did realize unless there was a threat of sanctions against the countries that ignored the sanctions against North Korea that the sanctions really didn't have any real impact. If starting 24 years ago or more if the sanctions had really been enforced North Korea would have had much less money to put into the program and while they might still be trying to build a nuclear program they would not be anyplace close to where they are now.  

At this point we have to hope the North Korean mad man is smart enough to realize if he attacks he is dead.  If he does attack and use nuclear weapons then the fallout from those weapons hitting South Korea, Japan and possible retaliation from the US in North Korea will affect all of Asia including the Chinese.

7

Again, my take is that he is simply playing the "Crazy Guy" to buy time and keep countries from touching him until he can create a large enough nuclear deterrent on his own to prevent other countries (including us) from intervening.

Once that's done, he will march his troops across the DMZ and force surrender w/ artillery and or the threat of a nuke. The goal is to reunify the Korean Penninsula and take over all the assets that the ROK has at its disposal because the economy of the DPRK is failing and failing fast.

[homersapien 11,353]

1 hour ago, Malcolm_FleX48 said:

Again, my take is that he is simply playing the "Crazy Guy" to buy time and keep countries from touching him until he can create a large enough nuclear deterrent on his own to prevent other countries (including us) from intervening.

Once that's done, he will march his troops across the DMZ and force surrender w/ artillery and or the threat of a nuke. The goal is to reunify the Korean Penninsula and take over all the assets that the ROK has at its disposal because the economy of the DPRK is failing and failing fast.

This reminds me of the "domino theory" that kept us in Viet Nam.

[Mims44 1,864]

4 hours ago, homersapien said:

This reminds me of the "domino theory" that kept us in Viet Nam.

In what way?

[alexava 6,973]

I honestly don't know what needs to happen. I know the childish effing tweets dont' need to happen. Mattis makes me feel at ease. But Deferment Don is not the man to lead.

[War Knight 514]

3 hours ago, alexava said:

I honestly don't know what needs to happen. I know the childish effing tweets dont' need to happen. Mattis makes me feel at ease. But Deferment Don is not the man to lead.

I don't know what NEEDS to happen but I think it's pretty apparent what will happen if I had to guess.

It seems that at some point we'll likely allow North Korea to strike a plane or boat. Whether or not we stage it ourselves is the question. Public outrage will follow, Trump support will surge, we'll all be hungry for retaliation and China will be forced to let North Korea take this ass whooping without any support from them. We allow China to essentially rebuild and control North Korea moving forward as a part of the debt we owe them. Russia quits their feigned frustration with us and we just ensure they don't get any more influence.

It's going to be ugly. We'll continue to overextend ourselves geopolitically and the world will continue to spin. Hopefully our defenses and plans will be in place so as to protect Japan and everyone here at home m

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

1 hour ago, War Knight said:

I don't know what NEEDS to happen but I think it's pretty apparent what will happen if I had to guess.

It seems that at some point we'll likely allow North Korea to strike a plane or boat. Whether or not we stage it ourselves is the question. Public outrage will follow, Trump support will surge, we'll all be hungry for retaliation and China will be forced to let North Korea take this ass whooping without any support from them. We allow China to essentially rebuild and control North Korea moving forward as a part of the debt we owe them. Russia quits their feigned frustration with us and we just ensure they don't get any more influence.

It's going to be ugly. We'll continue to overextend ourselves geopolitically and the world will continue to spin. Hopefully our defenses and plans will be in place so as to protect Japan and everyone here at home m

Good possible scenario.