DKW 86

Moore or Strange?

Moore-Strange?  

24 members have voted

  1. 1. Moore-Strange?

    • Moore
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    • Strange
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    • Aubie the Tiger
      19


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Voted Strange. Expect Moore. Will vote Jones in the general either way. 

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50 minutes ago, Bigbens42 said:

Voted Strange. Expect Moore. Will vote Jones in the general either way. 

Ditto.

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9 hours ago, Proud Tiger said:

Moore kicked butt and sent a message to McConnell and the GOP good old boys.

Moore and Strange were both terrible candidates for different reasons.  

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8 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

Well, he isnt elected...yet. :sad2:

Yeah, but you know as well as I do you can book it.  Our next senator will be Roy Moore.  Part of that is because the GOP electorate has lost it's damn mind and keeps propping up terrible candidates.  But you can also thank the Alabama Democratic Party for having its head up its own ass.  They refuse to grasp that you cannot run a candidate in a deep red state like Alabama whose views are basically indistinguishable from a Democrat running in California or the Northeast.  Until they get that through their heads, they'll continue to serve as a sacrificial lamb to whatever brain dead mouthbreather the GOP wants to serve up.

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On 9/26/2017 at 10:36 PM, RunInRed said:

These are the type of people we nominate in Alabama.

 

DKsTVAYVAAAapy0.jpg

There are people who will eat this s*** up as pure fact.

Edited by TitanTiger
removed insult - inappropriate for this forum

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1 hour ago, TitanTiger said:

Yeah, but you know as well as I do you can book it.  Our next senator will be Roy Moore.  Part of that is because the GOP electorate has lost it's damn mind and keeps propping up terrible candidates.  But you can also thank the Alabama Democratic Party for having its head up its own ass.  They refuse to grasp that you cannot run a candidate in a deep red state like Alabama whose views are basically indistinguishable from a Democrat running in California or the Northeast.  Until they get that through their heads, they'll continue to serve as a sacrificial lamb to whatever brain dead mouthbreather the GOP wants to serve up.

I actually think Doug Jones is a decent candidate ... not that he'll win ... but a more decent candidate than what they've typically thrown against the wall.

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1 hour ago, TitanTiger said:

Yeah, but you know as well as I do you can book it.  Our next senator will be Roy Moore.  Part of that is because the GOP electorate has lost it's damn mind and keeps propping up terrible candidates.  But you can also thank the Alabama Democratic Party for having its head up its own ass.  They refuse to grasp that you cannot run a candidate in a deep red state like Alabama whose views are basically indistinguishable from a Democrat running in California or the Northeast.  Until they get that through their heads, they'll continue to serve as a sacrificial lamb to whatever brain dead mouthbreather the GOP wants to serve up.

What is his position that is so out of line with Alabama that would prevent his election?   :dunno:

Edited by homersapien

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Dear People of Alabama, 

Putting Roy Freaking Moore in office will now affect us all, not just you.  Please remember that.  It's fine if you want to let him screw up your life from a state level.  But please don't punish the rest of us.

Signed,

Everyone not in Alabama

P.S.  Sorry about Ted Cruz.  Wish I could have done more for the country on that one.  Please learn from our state's mistake.

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24 minutes ago, homersapien said:

What is his position that is so out of line with Alabama that would prevent his election?   :dunno:

I think it's more "What positions of his are significantly different from a California Democrat like Pelosi, or a NY Democrat like Chuck Schumer?"  I looked at his positions and he's a standard-issue, boilerplate national Democratic party candidate.  In what reality would a candidate like that win a statewide race in Alabama?  

It's about like someone like Roy Moore or Jeff Sessions running as a Republican in Massachusetts, California or Oregon.  They wouldn't have a snowball's chance in Hell of winning a Senate race.  You have to run a different kind of Republican in places like that to even have a puncher's chance.  The ADC needs to identify some conservative Democrats they can offer to Alabama voters.  You can run a hardcore Dem in House districts like the one Terri Sewell represents and win, but that won't fly in a race for Governor or the US Senate.

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40 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

I think it's more "What positions of his are significantly different from a California Democrat like Pelosi, or a NY Democrat like Chuck Schumer?"  I looked at his positions and he's a standard-issue, boilerplate national Democratic party candidate.  In what reality would a candidate like that win a statewide race in Alabama?  

It's about like someone like Roy Moore or Jeff Sessions running as a Republican in Massachusetts, California or Oregon.  They wouldn't have a snowball's chance in Hell of winning a Senate race.  You have to run a different kind of Republican in places like that to even have a puncher's chance.  The ADC needs to identify some conservative Democrats they can offer to Alabama voters.  You can run a hardcore Dem in House districts like the one Terri Sewell represents and win, but that won't fly in a race for Governor or the US Senate.

That's rather vague.  Here are his "bullet points" from his website.  What is it about these specific positions that make him unelectible in Alabama?

  • Everyone has the right to quality, affordable health care.
  • We must restore Alabama’s trust for its elected leaders.
  • I will defend a woman’s right to choose and stand with Planned Parenthood.
  • All children deserve a first-class education regardless of where they live.
  • College must be affordable without burdening a student with overwhelming debt.
  • I believe in science and will work to slow or reverse the impact of climate change.
  • It is past time we raise the minimum wage to a livable wage.
  • Women must be paid an equal wage for equal work at all levels.
  • Voter suppression is unAmerican – we must protect voting rights.
  • Discrimination cannot be tolerated or protected. America is best when it builds on diversity and is welcoming of the contributions of all.

 

And isn't he the DA that prosecuted the Birmingham church bombers?  Seems like he would represent a huge opportunity for Alabama change it's image.

 

Edited by homersapien

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33 minutes ago, homersapien said:

That's rather vague.  Here are his "bullet points" from his website.  What is it about these specific positions that make him unelectible in Alabama?

  • Everyone has the right to quality, affordable health care.
  • We must restore Alabama’s trust for its elected leaders.
  • I will defend a woman’s right to choose and stand with Planned Parenthood.
  • All children deserve a first-class education regardless of where they live.
  • College must be affordable without burdening a student with overwhelming debt.
  • I believe in science and will work to slow or reverse the impact of climate change.
  • It is past time we raise the minimum wage to a livable wage.
  • Women must be paid an equal wage for equal work at all levels.
  • Voter suppression is unAmerican – we must protect voting rights.
  • Discrimination cannot be tolerated or protected. America is best when it builds on diversity and is welcoming of the contributions of all.

 

And isn't he the DA that prosecuted the Birmingham church bombers?  Seems like he would represent a huge opportunity for Alabama change it's image.

 

"I stand with Planned Parenthood" is a great way to get eliminated from consideration right out the gate, regardless of the other positions. You can rail against it all you want but this isn't about what you wish were the case in Alabama, it's about what is.

Run a Republican for Senate in a deep blue state like California, Oregon, or Vermont who states he wants to defund Planned Parenthood and overturn Roe v Wade and see how far he gets.

A swing state like Ohio, Pennsylvania or Florida might go back and forth between candidates like this.  But not in states like Alabama or California where one party dominates statewide races.

Start with the views Jones has above.  Imagine if a Democrat with the views below were running against Moore.  Do you think his chances go up if less rabid Republicans had this as an option?

  • We must work to have all our citizens with quality, affordable health care coverage.  I will work with Senate Republicans, looking at all approaches no matter what side of the aisle it originates with, to make this happen.
  • We must restore Alabama’s trust for its elected leaders.
  • I am pro-life.  Abortion is a tragic sign we have not met the needs of women, but there is far more to being pro-life than opposition to abortion.  I will support policies that reflect in law the fundamental worth, dignity, and equality of all people and will reduce abortions. I believe that the protection of human life is the foundation of human rights, authentic freedom, and good government.
  • All children deserve a first-class education regardless of where they live.
  • College must be affordable without burdening a student with overwhelming debt.
  • I believe in science and will work to slow or reverse the impact of climate change, without crippling taxes and unjustifiable regulation.  To whatever degree humans are causing or worsening environmental problems, we need to work together on solutions that will leave behind a better, cleaner world for our children and grandchildren.
  • Diligent, hard-working people should not need two or three jobs just to meet basic needs for them and their families.  Part of being pro-life and pro-family is to work for economic and workplace policies that properly reward an honest day's work and allow children to have quality time with their parents.
  • Women must be paid an equal wage for equal work at all levels.
  • Voter suppression is unAmerican – we must protect voting rights.
  • Discrimination cannot be tolerated or protected. America is best when it builds on diversity and is welcoming of the contributions of all.
  • We also need to learn to disagree with one another  on issues we are passionate about without demonizing the other side.  We have to leave room for people to follow the dictates of the conscience and beliefs without government coercion.  

Now, maybe that guy still loses.  But a somewhat conservative Democrat as described above at least has a shot.  And it's no different than the kind of adjustments a Republican running in a Democrat-dominated state would have to make on certain issues.  I just don't think the state Democratic party cares.  Either that or they are the most clueless, delusional bunch on the planet.

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So, basically, the only way to get elected in Alabama is to oppose all legal abortions?

How do you think Alabama would respond to a candidate that is "pro life" but doesn't think the government should be involved with the issue, as it's a matter of personal religious conviction?

Edited by homersapien

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Just now, homersapien said:

So, basically, the only way to get elected in Alabama is to oppose all legal abortions?

How do you think Alabama would respond to a candidate that is "pro life" but doesn't think the government should be involved with the issue, as it it a matter of religious conviction.

To be elected to a statewide race in Alabama, you cannot be in full support of legalized abortion and stand with Planned Parenthood.  I would think this is common sense.  It is no different than a Republican trying to win a Senate race in California running on a platform of opposition to abortion and defunding Planned Parenthood.  It doesn't really matter whether you or I agree with the position taken or not.  You have to know your electorate in the state you're in.

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43 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

"I stand with Planned Parenthood" is a great way to get eliminated from consideration right out the gate, regardless of the other positions. You can rail against it all you want but this isn't about what you wish were the case in Alabama, it's about what is.

Run a Republican for Senate in a deep blue state like California, Oregon, or Vermont who states he wants to defund Planned Parenthood and overturn Roe v Wade and see how far he gets.

A swing state like Ohio, Pennsylvania or Florida might go back and forth between candidates like this.  But not in states like Alabama or California where one party dominates statewide races.

Start with the views Jones has above.  Imagine if a Democrat with the views below were running against Moore.  Do you think his chances go up if less rabid Republicans had this as an option?

  • We must work to have all our citizens with quality, affordable health care coverage.  I will work with Senate Republicans, looking at all approaches no matter what side of the aisle it originates with, to make this happen.
  • We must restore Alabama’s trust for its elected leaders.
  • I am pro-life.  Abortion is a tragic sign we have not met the needs of women, but there is far more to being pro-life than opposition to abortion.  I will support policies that reflect in law the fundamental worth, dignity, and equality of all people and will reduce abortions. I believe that the protection of human life is the foundation of human rights, authentic freedom, and good government.
  • All children deserve a first-class education regardless of where they live.
  • College must be affordable without burdening a student with overwhelming debt.
  • I believe in science and will work to slow or reverse the impact of climate change, without crippling taxes and unjustifiable regulation.  To whatever degree humans are causing or worsening environmental problems, we need to work together on solutions that will leave behind a better, cleaner world for our children and grandchildren.
  • Diligent, hard-working people should not need two or three jobs just to meet basic needs for them and their families.  Part of being pro-life and pro-family is to work for economic and workplace policies that properly reward an honest day's work and allow children to have quality time with their parents.
  • Women must be paid an equal wage for equal work at all levels.
  • Voter suppression is unAmerican – we must protect voting rights.
  • Discrimination cannot be tolerated or protected. America is best when it builds on diversity and is welcoming of the contributions of all.
  • We also need to learn to disagree with one another  on issues we are passionate about without demonizing the other side.  We have to leave room for people to follow the dictates of the conscience and beliefs without government coercion.  

Now, maybe that guy still loses.  But a somewhat conservative Democrat as described above at least has a shot.  And it's no different than the kind of adjustments a Republican running in a Democrat-dominated state would have to make on certain issues.  I just don't think the state Democratic party cares.  Either that or they are the most clueless, delusional bunch on the planet.

Jones is either hopelessly naive or quixotic. I read his website last night, agreed with him and wrote off his candidacy.

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1 hour ago, homersapien said:

And isn't he the DA that prosecuted the Birmingham church bombers?  Seems like he would represent a huge opportunity for Alabama change it's image.

He was.

So basically we have someone who defended the right of school girls not to be murdered while attending Sunday school vs someone who is proposing his own version of Sharia Law (and has been fired twice for that unconstitutional belief).

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10 minutes ago, Bigbens42 said:

He was.

So basically we have someone who defended the right of school girls not to be murdered while attending Sunday school vs someone who is proposing his own version of Sharia Law (and has been fired twice for that unconstitutional belief).

Should be an easy choice for decent folks. But decency is in short supply in some quarters.

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1 hour ago, homersapien said:

That's rather vague.  Here are his "bullet points" from his website.  What is it about these specific positions that make him unelectible in Alabama?

  • Everyone has the right to quality, affordable health care.
  • We must restore Alabama’s trust for its elected leaders.
  • I will defend a woman’s right to choose and stand with Planned Parenthood.
  • All children deserve a first-class education regardless of where they live.
  • College must be affordable without burdening a student with overwhelming debt.
  • I believe in science and will work to slow or reverse the impact of climate change.
  • It is past time we raise the minimum wage to a livable wage.
  • Women must be paid an equal wage for equal work at all levels.
  • Voter suppression is unAmerican – we must protect voting rights.
  • Discrimination cannot be tolerated or protected. America is best when it builds on diversity and is welcoming of the contributions of all.

 

And isn't he the DA that prosecuted the Birmingham church bombers?  Seems like he would represent a huge opportunity for Alabama change it's image.

 

Those bolded ones put him out of step with a LOT of folks in Alabama.  It's sad, but it's also the truth.

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4 hours ago, RunInRed said:

I actually think Doug Jones is a decent candidate ... not that he'll win ... but a more decent candidate than what they've typically thrown against the wall.

I agree...and the AL DC has thrown up some doozies of late.

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1 hour ago, Bigbens42 said:

He was.

So basically we have someone who defended the right of school girls not to be murdered while attending Sunday school vs someone who is proposing his own version of Sharia Law (and has been fired twice for that unconstitutional belief).

Welcome to 2017.

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2 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

To be elected to a statewide race in Alabama, you cannot be in full support of legalized abortion and stand with Planned Parenthood.  I would think this is common sense.  It is no different than a Republican trying to win a Senate race in California running on a platform of opposition to abortion and defunding Planned Parenthood.  It doesn't really matter whether you or I agree with the position taken or not.  You have to know your electorate in the state you're in.

I am not trying to argue the issue of abortion, which we - in particular - don't need to do.  I am just trying to explore the fact why Democrats have no chance in states such as Alabama (and South Carolina for that matter). 

Obviously, the traditional reason one party - or the other - is totally non-competitive in Alabama and similar deep south states is race - specifically support of segregation and opposition to civil rights.   Personally, I think this is still one of the underlying reasons for domination of the Republican Party, even if on a subliminal basis.   But you are essentially saying that taking a hard line on legal abortion has replaced race as the key differentiating factor.  You may be right, but I can't help but wonder what the results would be if you simply took abortion off the table as a practical, political issue.  Now, you would probably respond it is a political issue so it's pointless to even consider it.  If so, then I would suggest that Alabamians have allowed a basically irrelevant, religious-based issue to dominate their political process in totality, which is a sad commentary on the system and/or the people of Alabama.

While I think Roe v. Wade was correctly decided, this is obviously one of the negative results of taking the question out of the political arena. In fact, I am starting to come to the conclusion it might be better for our society from a political standpoint to repeal Roe v. Wade and throw the question back into the political process.  If the people of Alabama really want to criminalize abortion, then let them do so and experience the consequences. 

At least, perhaps the prospect of doing that would make people consider the issue more seriously, particularly the female population.  It might not have as much support as a real issue as it does a symbolic one.

IMO, such a step would be a huge set back for individual rights vs. the power of the state, which hardly seems a conservative position.  It would be equivalent to allowing Alabama to establish a theocracy controlled by Christians. 

But looking at the future senator Moore, maybe that's what they really want?

 

Edited by homersapien

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