Basketball Probe

[AURex 1,994]

If I understand this issue correctly, the issue of CBP at this point is not about the FBI probe, which had to do with Person and the two players. The issue with CBP is an NCAA rules thing. According to NCAA rules, even if a head coach is not aware of illegal activities going on, he is **responsible** for ALL that occurs regarding his team. Thank you Rick Pitino and Hugh Freeze and Art Briles, who all denied even an inkling of the stuff going on at their institution.

Personally, I really don't think CBP knew about the dealings of Person and Adidas. But as far as the NCAA is concerned, that does not absolve him from responsibility. And with his show-cause history ...... this is a really crappy mess. Person really did a number on us. May he live forever in ignominy.

[boomstick 1,315]

29 minutes ago, AURex said:

If I understand this issue correctly, the issue of CBP at this point is not about the FBI probe, which had to do with Person and the two players. The issue with CBP is an NCAA rules thing. According to NCAA rules, even if a head coach is not aware of illegal activities going on, he is **responsible** for ALL that occurs regarding his team. Thank you Rick Pitino and Hugh Freeze and Art Briles, who all denied even an inkling of the stuff going on at their institution.

Personally, I really don't think CBP knew about the dealings of Person and Adidas. But as far as the NCAA is concerned, that does not absolve him from responsibility. And with his show-cause history ...... this is a really crappy mess. Person really did a number on us. May he live forever in ignominy.

In the case of some of those coaches you listed as examples, they had systems built around them to insulate them from wrongdoings so the HC could retain his plausible deniability. I believe part of the reason for the institution of that rule is to give the NCAA a way around the claim of “I didn’t know” excuses that HCs were using. If Bruce can show he promoted compliance and thoroughly monitored his staff, that’s how he will get around that HC responsibility rule. If he can show he acted and did an adequate job of policing his assistants, he will be fine. 

It is assumed Pearl will be questioned by the FBI at some point or be involved in their investigation, and I believe that’s the hold up between Bruce and Auburn. Like you said, I don’t think Bruce’s issues are related to the FBI but moreso how he was running his program when one of his assistants violated NCAA rules. 

[steeleagle 2,945]

9 hours ago, boomstick said:

In the case of some of those coaches you listed as examples, they had systems built around them to insulate them from wrongdoings so the HC could retain his plausible deniability. I believe part of the reason for the institution of that rule is to give the NCAA a way around the claim of “I didn’t know” excuses that HCs were using. If Bruce can show he promoted compliance and thoroughly monitored his staff, that’s how he will get around that HC responsibility rule. If he can show he acted and did an adequate job of policing his assistants, he will be fine. 

It is assumed Pearl will be questioned by the FBI at some point or be involved in their investigation, and I believe that’s the hold up between Bruce and Auburn. Like you said, I don’t think Bruce’s issues are related to the FBI but moreso how he was running his program when one of his assistants violated NCAA rules. 

I would think BP would never attempt again anything even slightly illegal or against NCAA/University rules. I also think he would have reported Person, if he found out what he had been doing with Wiley and Purifoy.

Why? Because his career would be over. Period. After his issue at UT, and his show cause ban from coaching, he knew that he was hanging on by a thread in regards to being a college coach, and his reputation forever ruined.

And in regards to the coach being responsible for his assistants? I know it is in his contract, but I think there is also wording that he can't be held responsible for everything his staff does, as long as he never knew about their transgressions. Especially when it comes to nothing to do with recruiting violations. This is a rogue assistant trying to make a lot of money at the expense of HIS position. What he did was NOT aiding Auburn, only himself.

Now its up to Auburn's President, AD, and compliance to not hold Pearl to the letter of the contract(most contracts have some wiggle room), and knowing how much PEarl has helped this University with his words, his actions, his causes he has started, and that is not even counting his current situation with finally getting us to the NCAA, which was a mirage to us fans for almost 20 years. 

[boomstick 1,315]

56 minutes ago, steeleagle said:

I would think BP would never attempt again anything even slightly illegal or against NCAA/University rules. I also think he would have reported Person, if he found out what he had been doing with Wiley and Purifoy.

Why? Because his career would be over. Period. After his issue at UT, and his show cause ban from coaching, he knew that he was hanging on by a thread in regards to being a college coach, and his reputation forever ruined.

And in regards to the coach being responsible for his assistants? I know it is in his contract, but I think there is also wording that he can't be held responsible for everything his staff does, as long as he never knew about their transgressions. Especially when it comes to nothing to do with recruiting violations. This is a rogue assistant trying to make a lot of money at the expense of HIS position. What he did was NOT aiding Auburn, only himself.

Now its up to Auburn's President, AD, and compliance to not hold Pearl to the letter of the contract(most contracts have some wiggle room), and knowing how much PEarl has helped this University with his words, his actions, his causes he has started, and that is not even counting his current situation with finally getting us to the NCAA, which was a mirage to us fans for almost 20 years. 

In regards to his contract, he can be held responsible for the actions of his assistants. It’s an NCAA bylaw, and his contract will probably deal specifically with that bylaw as well as others. But he can prove he did everything possible to prevent infractions from happening and his assistant did it anyway. That’s how he would avoid being caught up in that particular bylaw. 

With our compliance department, I feel confident we promoted a program of compliance and they helped monitor the assistants and Bruce to keep them from committing infractions. Hopefully, that is satisfactory to the NCAA. 

[TigerOne 1,140]

5 hours ago, boomstick said:

In regards to his contract, he can be held responsible for the actions of his assistants. It’s an NCAA bylaw, and his contract will probably deal specifically with that bylaw as well as others. But he can prove he did everything possible to prevent infractions from happening and his assistant did it anyway. That’s how he would avoid being caught up in that particular bylaw. 

With our compliance department, I feel confident we promoted a program of compliance and they helped monitor the assistants and Bruce to keep them from committing infractions. Hopefully, that is satisfactory to the NCAA. 

may be wrong seem to remember reading the contract and the wording says the University "may" terminate not must or will.

See hack Forde jumping on the Pearl will be fired bandwagon. No facts just his amateur opinion he and thamel are gonna wet themselves if they keep it up. Their girlish giggling about the topic is obvious.

"Bruce Pearl could well be national Coach of the Year if not for The Investigation Thing, which has resulted in the firing or suspension of five people associated with Auburn basketball — but not Pearl. He’s confident he will be OK when all is said and done. That could well be wishful thinking."

[Tiger 8,820]

If we weren't having a good season nobody would be writing that Bruce will be fired right now. They know these things:

- Bruce Pearl is a big name

- His teams are good

- His current team is good and people are starting to pay attention

- If they write something that sounds juicy or moves the needle for those that love controversy (basically the general public) they will get clicks.

 

And here we are, but the fact of the matter is Thamel or Schlabach don't know much about what's REALLY going on. I don't either, but the Cam Newton thing is all I need to know about wild assumptions made by these types of writers.

[boomstick 1,315]

51 minutes ago, TigerOne said:

may be wrong seem to remember reading the contract and the wording says the University "may" terminate not must or will.

See hack Forde jumping on the Pearl will be fired bandwagon. No facts just his amateur opinion he and thamel are gonna wet themselves if they keep it up. Their girlish giggling about the topic is obvious.

"Bruce Pearl could well be national Coach of the Year if not for The Investigation Thing, which has resulted in the firing or suspension of five people associated with Auburn basketball — but not Pearl. He’s confident he will be OK when all is said and done. That could well be wishful thinking."

No disagreement there. He won't necessarily be fired if he's charged with violations that his assistants committed, but it would be a really bad look for him. To be considered responsible, he would've had to not promote compliance with NCAA rules within the program and not monitor his assistants properly. Based on what we know of our compliance department, I don't expect either of those things to be the case. But the actions of the assistants within the program have to mirror that idea of compliance that Bruce is promoting. If we have multiple assistants out committing violations (multiple assistants have been fired/suspended), that's a bad look on Bruce and is a situation where he could be ultimately held responsible for those transgressions. Then, Auburn would have to make a decision whether or not to stick by Bruce's side, and I don't know that I have much confidence in Leath or the new AD in them supporting Bruce right now.

[AU64 10,122]

43 minutes ago, boomstick said:

Then, Auburn would have to make a decision whether or not to stick by Bruce's side, and I don't know that I have much confidence in Leath or the new AD in them supporting Bruce right now

Schools supporting coaches who get involved with NCAA issues.....are generally wise to cut the strings no matter how well the coach has done.   Repeat offenders ...even when it does not seem to be directly their fault, are just asking for trouble.    I'm hoping that if there are penalties, they are levied against BP and not Auburn University because as people have complained about....our Compliance Department is as strict as at any school and has done about all that is possible to run a clean program. .  I'm hoping BP can stay and I 'm hoping the reason he can stay is because there is no question about how he ran his basketball program.     

Louisville kept Pitino despite several questionable incidents and now look at them. ....and they are not done yet either and in this case U of Louisville deserves the penalties for selling their souls to win basketball games.   They are not the only school to do that of course......and I'm hoping AU does not end up on that list.

[AU64 10,122]

Just a follow up to my post above....read a few minutes ago that the NCAA has stripped Louisville of 123 wins and their 2013 NCAA championship. School officials are livid......but they earned that penalty fair and square by their win at any cost attitude.

[AUIH1 1,515]

10 minutes ago, AU64 said:

Just a follow up to my post above....read a few minutes ago that the NCAA has stripped Louisville of 123 wins and their 2013 NCAA championship. School officials are livid......but they earned that penalty fair and square by their win at any cost attitude.

I wish you would cast just as much of a critical eye towards Gus as you do Bruce.

wde

[AU64 10,122]

7 minutes ago, AUIH1 said:

I wish you would cast just as much of a critical eye towards Gus as you do Bruce.

wde

Far as I know, Gus has not had the NCAA on his case in the time he has been here....

I like BP for what he has accomplished as a coach....but not very happy that the NCAA and FBI is snooping around the basketball program that he is in charge of. 

[AUIH1 1,515]

56 minutes ago, AU64 said:

Far as I know, Gus has not had the NCAA on his case in the time he has been here....

I like BP for what he has accomplished as a coach....but not very happy that the NCAA and FBI is snooping around the basketball program that he is in charge of. 

LOL, but you were a big supporter of Jay Jacobs and JJ hired Pearl and forced Pearl to hire Person who brought the whole FBI probe to AU.  

wde

[AU64 10,122]

1 minute ago, AUIH1 said:

LOL, but you were a big supporter of Jay Jacobs and JJ hired Pearl.  

wde

I was not a supporter of JJ but also thought the complaints were over-blown.   JJ's made a bunch of hires....some good, some not so good....but unless I misread the OP this is not about JJ. 

I was not enthusiastic about hiring BP with his NCAA problems but while I thought he got off to a slow start with AU...he's done a great job this year.  I like him as a coach but this isn't about his coaching skills.... and bringing up JJ is just a diversion .....'cause none of us know what's going on with the FBI or the NCAA....except maybe BP.....and he isn't saying much.    I think JJ and AU have done a good job of keeping AU out of trouble with the NCAA.... and hope it continues with the new AD. 

[AU64 10,122]

Thanks dover....I know I'm on the right track when I attract you attention. ......

[NoALtiger 3,850]

That’s gotta be some sort of facepalm record.

[boomstick 1,315]

3 hours ago, AU64 said:

Far as I know, Gus has not had the NCAA on his case in the time he has been here....

I like BP for what he has accomplished as a coach....but not very happy that the NCAA and FBI is snooping around the basketball program that he is in charge of. 

FWIW to my knowledge, Bruce hasn’t done anything to invite the FBI or NCAA to investigate Auburn. Bruce is not under investigation for any major violations currently. The FBI was here because of an assistant. 

Again, Bruce might be guilty of a lot of wrongdoing that we don’t know about, but IMO it’s a bit unfair to put this all on Bruce right now. 

[Mikey 16,578]

2 hours ago, AUIH1 said:

LOL, but you were a big supporter of Jay Jacobs and JJ hired Pearl and forced Pearl to hire Person who brought the whole FBI probe to AU.  

wde

This takes over first place in the competition for most inane post of the year.

[AU64 10,122]

33 minutes ago, boomstick said:

FWIW to my knowledge, Bruce hasn’t done anything to invite the FBI or NCAA to investigate Auburn. Bruce is not under investigation for any major violations currently. The FBI was here because of an assistant. 

Again, Bruce might be guilty of a lot of wrongdoing that we don’t know about, but IMO it’s a bit unfair to put this all on Bruce right now. 

Bruce is the boss.....and his program is under investigation....and he is  unable  to tell what he knows.  I am not putting this on him....and what I think has no impact anyway.

I am betting that he will be put under oath at some point and then we will know.   NCAA may not wait that long though.

[AU Is Gold 410]

On 2/14/2018 at 9:38 PM, AuburnTiger4Life said:

Out coached. Ridiculous. This team will be one and done in the tourney 

 

1 hour ago, Mikey said:

This takes over first place in the competition for most inane post of the year.

No Mikey, the quote above is still the most insane post of the year.

[Mikey 16,578]

8 hours ago, AU Is Gold said:

 

No Mikey, the quote above is still the most insane post of the year.

Upon further review, you are correct!

[lutzcammed 469]

10 hours ago, AU Is Gold said:

 

No Mikey, the quote above is still the most insane post of the year.

I must agree

[AU64 10,122]

Guess the OP would include discussion about other schools involved in the probe.  

Anyone surprised at what the NCAA did to Louisville and does that give pause to how they might treat the other schools that have been named so far.  Their crimes go back a ways so I guess it was appropriate to levy a punch of penalties against past seasons....but of course it was more than that. 

www2.kusports.com/news/2018/feb/15/fbi-probe-college-basketball-back-news/

Checked a couple other college sites and some like Okla State and Southern California seem to be in the same situation as AU....assistant coach fired, players suspended and the school and HC not knowing where they stand ....and all worried. 

[fishepa 1,901]

16 hours ago, AU64 said:

Just a follow up to my post above....read a few minutes ago that the NCAA has stripped Louisville of 123 wins and their 2013 NCAA championship. School officials are livid......but they earned that penalty fair and square by their win at any cost attitude.

UNC should be vacating the last 20 years of wins with their academic scandal.  But I guess that doesn't matter since a stripper wasn't involved.

[Tiger 8,820]

Lousiville was paying to get kids to come to their school with the help of adidas. Chuck was paying kids to sway a decision after they leave Auburn.

 

One is cheating and gives a program a competitive advantage. The other is just a selfish dirtbag who wanted to make a few extra bucks (compared to his salary) and risk literally everyone's career around him to make this extra money

 

Edit* correct me if I'm wrong, but this is how I understand it. I will admit I have been following mainly only Auburn/Bruce's hand in this so maybe my feel of what's going on with the other programs is off base 

[AU64 10,122]

30 minutes ago, Tiger said:

One is cheating and gives a program a competitive advantage. The other is just a selfish dirtbag who wanted to make a few extra bucks (compared to his salary) and risk literally everyone's career around him to make this extra money

 

Pretty close...but CP was also apparently giving money to active players or families of active players....which is where NCAA comes into the picture...that "impermissible benefits" thing. .....   

Louisville was cheating all over the place and the university administration pretty much accepted it.....UNC acted contrite, self imposed a few things and did not keep the culprits around ....and as a Blue Blood school, they got a pass.    Louisville was called out....and they ignored it...JMO