WarDamnEagleWDE

Chip calling games like this...

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10 minutes ago, OnthePlains said:

Coach Dye 4 SEC Championships, 6-6 vs. bama, 7-5 vs. uga.  Brought the Iron Bowl to AU for the first time and put the rivalry on equal ground.  Stopped the 9 game losing streak to the tahd.  3 Sugar Bowls at a time when that mattered.  4 Double digit win seasons.  No, Dye was no bear bryant, but he restored Auburn football after a long decade following the last of Shug's glory years in the early 70's.  Gus has one good season so far with one SEC title and 3 average seasons after with no wins vs. uga or uat.  Even if you forgive the losses to uat because of how good they've been there is no excuse for losing to 2 pretty bad uga teams. Plus teams play an extra game now than in the 80's giving Gus an extra game to win more.  No comparison.  If Gus wins a title this year then fine maybe we can talk again.  I am enjoying being a top 10 team. Contrary to popular belief around here being critical of an underachieving coach and enjoying the current run we are on are not mutually exclusive activities.  

Great post, and you are absolutely correct that CPD did some truly great things for Auburn football. 

Also, if we took a snapshot of his first 5 years, would he had been on the hour seat like Gus is now?  His recod after 5 seasons was 42-18.  Almost half way through his 5th year Gus is 40-19.  

I'm not trying to knock CPD, I'm just trying to put things into perspective.  I get it when schools are going through things like UT is now, or we had when CGC lost his team at AU - you have to make a change then.  I'm just not sure we aren't jumping the gun here. 

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5 minutes ago, GoAU said:

Great post, and you are absolutely correct that CPD did some truly great things for Auburn football. 

Also, if we took a snapshot of his first 5 years, would he had been on the hour seat like Gus is now?  His recod after 5 seasons was 42-18.  Almost half way through his 5th year Gus is 40-19.  

I'm not trying to knock CPD, I'm just trying to put things into perspective.  I get it when schools are going through things like UT is now, or we had when CGC lost his team at AU - you have to make a change then.  I'm just not sure we aren't jumping the gun here. 

I see your point but Coach Dye bought a lot of leeway by beating bama twice in his first 3 years on top of snapping the long losing streak.  In this day and age I just don't know how far we can afford to fall behind uga and uat.  I think my frustration is really more with Auburn as a program than Gus specifically.  This program has not won 10 plus games in back to back seasons since 88-89.  Thats just ridiculous.  The recent rise of Clemson has also bugged me too because I know Auburn is an overall better program with the same potential but the PTB keep getting in the way.  I also grow frustrated with a part of our fanbase who seem perfectly fine being middle of the road and getting spanked by uga and uat every year.  And I will say that the recent problems we have had beating uga are not just Gus's issue.  Chiz struggled with them and so did Tubs.  I think they have won like 11 of the last 15!  Whether its Gus or someone else we need to turn that around pronto! 

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41 minutes ago, OnthePlains said:

And I will say that the recent problems we have had beating uga are not just Gus's issue.  Chiz struggled with them and so did Tubs.  I think they have won like 11 of the last 15!  Whether its Gus or someone else we need to turn that around pronto! 

 

The only two Auburn teams that have beaten UGA since 2005, each won the SEC Championship and played in the BCS National Championship Game.

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1 minute ago, Strychnine said:

 

The only two Auburn teams that have beaten UGA since 2005, each won the SEC Championship and played in the BCS National Championship Game.

Yep.  And a few of those UGA teams that beat us were not very good.  On the bright side given that stat you just gave, if we do beat UGA this year I guess we are headed for the natty! :bananadance:

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Just now, OnthePlains said:

Yep.  And a few of those UGA teams that beat us were not very good.  On the bright side given that stat you just gave, if we do beat UGA this year I guess we are headed for the natty! :bananadance:

 

Most of the Auburn teams from 2006-2017 were not very good either.  During that stretch, Auburn teams are mostly mediocre, with a few that were truly exceptional.  Auburn has been very bad at providing good teams that fall in the middle ground between mediocre and exceptional.  Mark Richt excelled at that.  I do think a healthy Auburn team would have won the last two against Georgia, but not Alabama.

If both teams continue on their current trajectory, and Auburn wins out, the SEC Championship game will be a rematch.

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Just now, Strychnine said:

 

Most of the Auburn teams from 2006-2017 were not very good either.  During that stretch, Auburn teams are mostly mediocre, with a few that were truly exceptional.  Auburn has been very bad at providing good teams that fall in the middle ground between mediocre and exceptional.  Mark Richt excelled at that.  I do think a healthy Auburn team would have won the last two against Georgia, but not Alabama.

If both teams continue on their current trajectory, and Auburn wins out, the SEC Championship game will be a rematch.

Amazing to think that a AU-UGA rematch has not yet happened in the SECCG after 25 plus years of its existence.  Never had a UT-bama rematch either. Its bound to happen sometime. 

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4 minutes ago, OnthePlains said:

Amazing to think that a AU-UGA rematch has not yet happened in the SECCG after 25 plus years of its existence.  Never had a UT-bama rematch either. Its bound to happen sometime. 

 

I am not a fan of rematches, so I hope for South Carolina or Florida to pull off the upset and win out.

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Believe me, I am just as frustrated as you guys on the UGA series.  I graduated HS fro the ATL suburbs and my little brother is a UGA alum, I'm getting yired of hearing about it. 

We all want the same thing, it's just how to get there that differs. 

 

WDE!

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6 minutes ago, Strychnine said:

 

I am not a fan of rematches, so I hope for South Carolina or Florida to pull off the upset and win out.

Hell, Kentucky. 

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13 minutes ago, alexava said:

Hell, Kentucky. 

 

I think it would be great for Kentucky to make their first SEC Championship Game appearance, and then get beaten by Auburn.

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1 hour ago, GwillMac6 said:

Yes. Watch the highlights of his time at southern miss. A lot of  cool and diverse intermediate routes which besides the mercer game we are still missing. We ran up the middle after first down A LOT yesterday. That is a gus staple. Gus still has his imprint all over this offense. For us to get to where we want and where the talent on this team dictates we need to be more balanced. We still are a heavy run team. We need to throw more on first down.

OK that's a start but watching  highlights won't tell you much....like watching the highlights of yesterday's game and it looks like every pass was on target and every run was a breakout.    Just saying that last season his team ran slightly more than it passed and one RB had 14 TDs out of 125 carries and 500 yards.....sounding about like what he has been doing with JK...except for the yards KJ got yesterday. 

Based on the stats and such that I've seen, looks to me like this is what CCL;s offense looked like in the past..except he has more talent now and about every offensive statistic (team and individual) is up over his previous season though the proportions are about the same.

You can blame whatever on Gus if you want but there are no facts to back that up.   And despite a crap start against Clemson's defense, we have an offense that is among the top two or three in the SEC and somehow Gus is at fault for that?    Again, JMO but this is pretty diversified offense.....and one where an opponent has to defend the ground and the air..  Folks on this board were crying out for a balanced offense....and that's what we have....

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1 minute ago, AU64 said:

OK that's a start but watching  highlights won't tell you much....like watching the highlights of yesterday's game and it looks like every pass was on target and every run was a breakout.    Just saying that last season his team ran slightly more than it passed and one RB had 14 TDs out of 125 carries and 500 yards.....sounding about like what he has been doing with JK...except for the yards KJ got yesterday. 

Based on the stats and such that I've seen, looks to me like this is what CCL;s offense looked like in the past..except he has more talent now and about every offensive statistic (team and individual) is up over his previous season though the proportions are about the same.

You can blame whatever on Gus if you want but there are no facts to back that up.   And despite a crap start against Clemson's defense, we have an offense that is among the top two or three in the SEC and somehow Gus is at fault for that?    Again, JMO but this is pretty diversified offense.....and one where an opponent has to defend the ground and the air..  Folks on this board were crying out for a balanced offense....and that's what we have....

His offense last year had way more to deal with them losing 3 qbs to injury than what he wants to run schematically. He ran that much out of necessity last year. I do not even look at last year when looking at the data of how successful he has been as a playcaller or what he likes/wants to run.

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I do think Coach Lindsey is running his offense now.  There are still some of Coach Malzahn's tendencies. 1) After a big gain, hurry up, hand the ball to the RB up the middle.  2) Too many bubble screens with little success to justify them.  3) When Cox is lined up as a wing and the RB is on the opposite side, if we run, it is an inside handoff following Cox.  These are staples of a Malzahn offense.  I have not seen enough of Lindsey's films to know if those are also staples in his offense. 

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1 minute ago, GwillMac6 said:

His offense last year had way more to deal with them losing 3 qbs to injury than what he wants to run schematically. He ran that much out of necessity last year. I do not even look at last year when looking at the data of how successful he has been as a playcaller or what he likes/wants to run.

OK...maybe that is fair but that's what we had last season.  Just saying to dig deeper than the highlights....and while their offense was prolific ....I hate to borrow a comment from another poster on this site, but you have to consider the competition in league his team was playing and the style of play....and typical scores.  Back to my point though.....we wanted a balanced offense and we are getting that. 40 points three times against SEC opponents....been a while since we did that and won all of the games.

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5 minutes ago, AU64 said:

OK...maybe that is fair but that's what we had last season.  Just saying to dig deeper than the highlights....and while their offense was prolific ....I hate to borrow a comment from another poster on this site, but you have to consider the competition in league his team was playing and the style of play....and typical scores.  Back to my point though.....we wanted a balanced offense and we are getting that. 40 points three times against SEC opponents....been a while since we did that and won all of the games.

O I absolutely believe that. Look at Gus at tulsa. he basically ran the air raid with a better running game. BUT when you come to the sec you do not have to be scared like Gus is to throw it. Chip is not going to be able to throw as much as he wants to at southern miss obviously but I wish we could get it closer to 50/50. Heck I would even take 55/45. Our personel this year dictates we throw it more. We are not going to be able to gash Georgia and Bama. Maybe not even LSU. Passing is shown time and time again the best bet to beat a Kirby/Saban defense. You are not going to be able to impose your will on them and run 70% of the time and win.

Edited by GwillMac6
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To me, the first half looked like almost all Chip.  We were mixing it up and looked more creative and unpredictable than I have seen since 2013.   The main Gus influence I saw was the poorly timed wildcat play at the end of the half but that could just as easily been Chip as Gus.  The offense has improved and thats not debatable.  I think what those of us who are skeptical about it feel is we are not sure just how much we have improved until we face a team not named Mizzou, MSU or OM.  I know a bunch of folks on here are tired of me being down on Gus so let me say this...I am impressed with what we have done the last 3 weeks and I sincerely hope we keep it going. WDE. 

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7 minutes ago, GwillMac6 said:

O I absolutely believe that. Look at Gus at tulsa. he basically ran the air raid with a better running game. BUT when you come to the sec you do not have to be scared like Gus is to throw it. Chip is not going to be able to throw as much as he wants to at southern miss obviously but I wish we could get it closer to 50/50. Heck I would even take 55/45. Our personel this year dictates we throw it more. We are not going to be able to gash Georgia and Bama. Maybe not even LSU. Passing is shown time and time again the best bet to beat a Kirby/Saban defense. You are not going to be able to impose your will on them and run 70% of the time and win.

JMO but too early to tell this year what we can do on the ground but we've run on those teams in the past and I'm not sure that you can beat any of them without the ability to run the ball with success.  We are probably in the 50/50 range this year if you discount the 4th quarter to end of game situations where AU just ran they ball to run out the clock and preserve victories.  Prior to that,  where the games were competitive, we had a good balance.  End of game statistics can be very deceptive as you know.

PS history shows that if you throw enough passes at the bama defense, you are going to give up some Pick 6s.......

Edited by AU64

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On 10/7/2017 at 12:10 PM, CCslim said:

Running game helps the WRs get open. 

WRs shouldn't need help getting open. Sure a run game helps, but a coach with good understanding of passing concepts doesn't need the help when given elite WRs. 

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22 hours ago, GoAU said:

...I'm not knocking Coach Dye, but his 71% win record at AU isn't a ton better than Gus's 68% - both would equate to roughly 8-9 win seasons... 

War Damn Eagle!

Many thanks (for your whole post), and (admittedly) cherry picking here, but I find this an interesting segue point to a broader (and OT?) mathematical perspective.

One of those records is often described here as "below average."

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2 hours ago, AUld fAUx@ said:

Many thanks (for your whole post), and (admittedly) cherry picking here, but I find this an interesting segue point to a broader (and OT?) mathematical perspective.

One of those records is often described here as "below average."

Dye had also beaten our rivals at least as many times as he was beaten and in the case of uga he had a winning record.  6-6 against bama.  Teams also played one less regular season game back then so a 9 win season was a little more impressive at 9-2 than a 9 win season is now with 3 losses, not to mention Gus hasn't had a 9 win season outside of the first year with the miracle finishes.  Dye proved himself over and over again by winning championships, beating bama and uga and helping get the Iron Bowl moved to JHS as it should be.  There is NO comparison between Gus and Dye.  Now, having said that and as I have stated 400 times already I am more than willing to see how this season plays out and then evaluate Gus on the totality of the 5 years.  If we win 9 or more and beat uga and/or uat in the process then of course it will be fair to say things are looking brighter and Gus will be back..  And admittedly, if he loses to both again making it 8 consecutive losses to both (which Dye never did) but the games are close and competitive then maybe it still wont be time for a change.  Personally I think either way it will be an obvious decision based on how this year plays out. 

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25 minutes ago, OnthePlains said:

Teams also played one less regular season game back then so a 9 win season was a little more impressive at 9-2 than a 9 win season is now with 3 losses, not to mention Gus hasn't had a 9 win season outside of the first year with the miracle finishes.  Dye proved himself over and over again by winning championships, beating bama and uga and helping get the Iron Bowl moved to JHS as it should be.  There is NO comparison between Gus and Dye. 

AMEN!!!!!

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23 hours ago, GwillMac6 said:

O I absolutely believe that. Look at Gus at tulsa. he basically ran the air raid with a better running game. BUT when you come to the sec you do not have to be scared like Gus is to throw it. Chip is not going to be able to throw as much as he wants to at southern miss obviously but I wish we could get it closer to 50/50. Heck I would even take 55/45. Our personel this year dictates we throw it more. We are not going to be able to gash Georgia and Bama. Maybe not even LSU. Passing is shown time and time again the best bet to beat a Kirby/Saban defense. You are not going to be able to impose your will on them and run 70% of the time and win.

I agree. Maybe in 2010 or 2013 we could have run more and done so successfully, but don't see this team pulling that off. It will take balance and unpredictability. Much like the 1st half play calling last Saturday. Very imaginative. And as always against teams of that caliber, hit them in the damn mouth. Often.

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16 hours ago, OnthePlains said:

Dye had also beaten our rivals at least as many times as he was beaten and in the case of uga he had a winning record.  6-6 against bama.  Teams also played one less regular season game back then so a 9 win season was a little more impressive at 9-2 than a 9 win season is now with 3 losses, not to mention Gus hasn't had a 9 win season outside of the first year with the miracle finishes.  Dye proved himself over and over again by winning championships, beating bama and uga and helping get the Iron Bowl moved to JHS as it should be.  There is NO comparison between Gus and Dye.  Now, having said that and as I have stated 400 times already I am more than willing to see how this season plays out and then evaluate Gus on the totality of the 5 years.  If we win 9 or more and beat uga and/or uat in the process then of course it will be fair to say things are looking brighter and Gus will be back..  And admittedly, if he loses to both again making it 8 consecutive losses to both (which Dye never did) but the games are close and competitive then maybe it still wont be time for a change.  Personally I think either way it will be an obvious decision based on how this year plays out. 

All reasonable and eminently arguable positions, but irrelevant to my (admittedly, mathematically snooty) post. 

Apologies for apparent lack of clarity, but I was quibbling over frequent misuse of the definable term "average." In a finite universe of football teams interacting in a system where each each win is paired with a loss, the average record (in fractional/percentage terms, and regardless of the length of a season) is, by definition, 0.50.

WDE

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1 minute ago, AUld fAUx@ said:

All reasonable and eminently arguable positions, but irrelevant to my (admittedly, mathematically snooty) post. 

Apologies for apparent lack of clarity, but I was quibbling over frequent misuse of the definable term "average." In a finite universe of football teams interacting in a system where each each win is paired with a loss, the average record (in fractional/percentage terms, and regardless of the length of a season) is, by definition, 0.50.

WDE

Lol ok. Point taken. WDE

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On ‎10‎/‎7‎/‎2017 at 6:11 PM, bigbird said:

For me, my biggest complaint wasn't so much the play calls during the 2nd half or the lack of execution, but rather the players that we were asking to execute them. No way JS or KJ should've been out there after the 3rd qtr.

This plus I would like to see MW get a chance to throw at least once every 3 downs. He is not going to get the experience he needs just either handing the ball off or running. I believe the same thing hurt JF3 last year when he actually needed to contribute, he was not ready b/c he was not given enough chances to throw when he was in the blowout games.

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