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"This game will likely cost us our jobs"


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4 minutes ago, caleb1633 said:

I don't know where Gus deviated. I went back and watched highlights from games in 2009, and his offense was totally different. There were intermediate throws, hurry up offense, other plays on first down after a big gain besides running up the gut, the wildcat would actually hand the ball off to the jet sweep. I don't get it. I don't get how he doesn't see how ridiculous some of the stuff he does is.

I agree,  i’m Perplexed to why Gus changed his offensive strategy lately.   It makes me believe that there is more to the story than will ever know.  I’ve also been saying that I believe the PTB has put the reigns on Gus’ offense.

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1 hour ago, FullBloodedTiger91 said:

Look, I’m all for meltdowns when warranted, but why does this loss keep getting compared to the BCS title loss to FSU. FSU was #1 in scoring defense and had one of the best overall offenses in the league. Yeah it sucked losing to them but we held them to their lowest offensive output on the season and scored more than they allowed that season. 

 

The A&M 2014 loss was almost the complete opposite of the LSU loss. We had to scratch and claw our way out of a 35-17 hole in the second half and nearly pulled it off. 

 

This is legitamently the first Loss Gus has had where we were up by a large margin early on and lost. That’s fine to meltdown over that. It was by choice for whatever reason and the levels of conservative decision making were off the charts. Safe runs with our sure handed, injured/tired RBs using our base run plays to prevent turnovers or execution penalties. Deep balls were only called to eliminate ints providing short field for LSU. Gus just has trust issues and will likely be fired for it.

This all started in 2013 with the Georgia game. 

 

We happened to catch a Hail Mary at the end so it was ok on that day. FSU proved the real Gus.

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The level of my disgust with what happened last Saturday has not waned one bit. This loss is gonna stay with me for awhile. **** Malzahn.

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1 hour ago, AURealist said:

Uh huh.

Trivia Q: During spring practice the season following his chokefest in the BCS Title game, what was Gus Malzahn's favorite slogan? 

That A&M game was epic.  We had NIck Marshall and still found ways to lose to a true freshman making his SEC debut.  AUsome. 

Gus will be fired because he doesn't prepare his team to win and he chokes in the big games.

The 2014 was even better than the 2013 offense and the defense allowed 40ppg in our losses. Gus made the needed change to rectify the defensive issues. 

 

Gus is being fired for being stubborn and untrusting. When his back was against the wall, he replaced his staff with inadequate members and doubled down on hiring Gus guys. Outside of the Clemson game, the team has been prepared to win every game this year.

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38 minutes ago, WDE_OxPx_2010 said:

This all started in 2013 with the Georgia game. 

 

We happened to catch a Hail Mary at the end so it was ok on that day. FSU proved the real Gus.

So scoring 31 points against the #1 scoring defense (look how many of those defensive players landed on nfl rosters) and that proves the “real” Gus? 

 

Ill conceed the UGA game, but the defense that year was largely inconsistent and Murray picked apart the zone coverage in the second half. How about the Mizzou and Alabama games from that year? Come on man.

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52 minutes ago, WDE_OxPx_2010 said:

FSU proved the real Gus.

Since 1951, Auburn has faced 18 teams that finished the season ranked #1. The average points scored against those teams was 12.6 points. The 31 scored against FSU was the most points ever scored by an Auburn team against the actual #1 team in the country.

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6 minutes ago, StatTiger said:

Since 1951, Auburn has faced 18 teams that finished the season ranked #1. The average points scored against those teams was 12.6 points. The 31 scored against FSU was the most points ever scored by an Auburn team against the actual #1 team in the country.

How many were before half?

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This is all exhausting. Monday I wanted him gone “yesterday”. Anger was extreme then. I don’t necessarily want him to stay but the unknown is pretty frightening when given time to think about it. Charlie strong was an established head coach and then failed. Why? Mcelwain did well out west, now he’s in trouble. Why?  Bilema did ok in the big ten and now looks about ten years older than when he started.  How many coaches out there have done what we want from a coach? Three? Five? Someone mentioned in another thread TCUs coach. Look at his records throughout his tenure. He would have been fired already at most sec schools before he got to the good seasons. Please don’t pound me. I’m  not advocating for or against Gus.  I’m just weary of the conversation and not sure Anyone really knows what’s best for Auburn. I think I’ll take a break, sit back and just see how it plays out.  War Eagle always!!

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Serious wuestion; why has GM not already been relieved of duty?  Appoint an interim HC and let the coaches coach.  Let's see what this team can really do and hopefully start winning.  Everyone now understands that Gus is the problem and there is no reason not to make the move NOW.  This is ruining the program.

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2 hours ago, caleb1633 said:

I don't know where Gus deviated. I went back and watched highlights from games in 2009, and his offense was totally different. There were intermediate throws, hurry up offense, other plays on first down after a big gain besides running up the gut, the wildcat would actually hand the ball off to the jet sweep. I don't get it. I don't get how he doesn't see how ridiculous some of the stuff he does is.

It's actually quite simple. 

He's trying to be offensive coordinator as a head coach, and he doesn't have the time to do that and the rest of the head coaching duties. This is causing an incredibly simple, watered-down offense. He simply does not have the time to spend building out complex offensive schemes and plays while being head  coach. This combined with his inability to let other offensive coaches coach is what is going on. 

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1 hour ago, FullBloodedTiger91 said:

The 2014 was even better than the 2013 offense and the defense allowed 40ppg in our losses. Gus made the needed change to rectify the defensive issues. 

 

Gus is being fired for being stubborn and untrusting. When his back was against the wall, he replaced his staff with inadequate members and doubled down on hiring Gus guys. Outside of the Clemson game, the team has been prepared to win every game this year.

The answer to the question I posed to you is: "TnT XIII"

"TnT XIII" is the new slogan for the 2014 football team. It stands for "Tough-N-Together" with the Roman numeral for 13 serving as a reminder of those final seconds of the BCS National Championship Game and just how close the Tigers were to capping their season with a shiny crystal football.

"It's a mindset," Malzahn said shortly before his appearance at the Atlanta Auburn Club meeting at Druid Hills Golf Club. "We have to be 13 seconds better in everything we do. From a coaching standpoint and from the way our players perform on the field and in the weight room and everything that goes with it."  -Read the article-

That should tell you a thing about his "not lose" mentality.  It was there in the FSU game and has been there ever since.

BTW:  Two fumbles by the Auburn Offense killed our comeback vs aTm in the game you mentioned.

Firing someone for being "stubborn and untrusting" will get you sued if they're doing their job well.  That's just personal opinion.  Gus is going to be fired for not having his teams prepared and for choking under pressure.  Those things are directly connected to performance.  

Are you just trolling me, or what?

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, AUHighPlainsDrifter said:

I think you pretty much nailed it, except for the part about JJ losing his job over this. I think he will lose his job over the other scandals instead....or maybe a combination of everything. I just don't think that the PTB would fire him over Gus' buyout. We've been down that road before. 

Oh I agree. It just added to it. What I said about the buyout was why he didn’t fire Gus last year when Gus refused to higher anyone but the previous GA that JJ told him not too. Gus told him to stick it in his ear because he was sitting on a huge buy out.

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11 minutes ago, AURealist said:

That should tell you a thing about his "not lose" mentality.  It was there in the FSU game and has been there ever since.

BTW:  Two fumbles by the Auburn Offense killed our comeback vs aTm in the game you mentioned.

Firing someone for being "stubborn and untrusting" will get you sued if they're doing their job well.  That's just personal opinion.  Gus is going to be fired for not having his teams prepared and for choking under pressure.  Those things are directly connected to performance.  

Are you just trolling me, or what?

 

 

 

How are you taking what I say as trolling? Are you advocating that Malzahn was playing not to lose all of 2014? The continued reference to the national title loss as the start of Malzahns conservative nature is a joke. 

 

You say that the chocking under pressure and being unprepared is directly tied to performance but don’t understand how his stubbornness and untrusting tendencies are tied to performance? Those qualities are what cause the “chokes” to happen. His stubbornness to run his system his way led to hires of Herb Hand who has had issues with having the OL ready out of the gate two years in a row. I didn’t think it was that hard to relate those but I’ll spell it out next time.

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1 hour ago, FullBloodedTiger91 said:

So scoring 31 points against the #1 scoring defense (look how many of those defensive players landed on nfl rosters) and that proves the “real” Gus? 

 

Ill conceed the UGA game, but the defense that year was largely inconsistent and Murray picked apart the zone coverage in the second half. How about the Mizzou and Alabama games from that year? Come on man.

No the problem in the FSU game was the same as you saw last week. Gus got the lead and decided to squat and wait it out. He has done it over and over again. Even in the UGA game in 2014, the reason they scored at the end that caused us to have to throw the Hail Mary ( other than the refs cheating and giving UGA a td they didn’t make) was because he tried to sit on a lead. That’s Gus’s problem along with he tries to out think himself. So most reasonable folks understand he is not going to change or get better. There will continue to be 8-5 and 7-6 seasons with the Birmingham Bowl being renamed the War Eagle Classic. If that’s what you want then I feel sorry for you.

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4 hours ago, FullBloodedTiger91 said:

Look, I’m all for meltdowns when warranted, but why does this loss keep getting compared to the BCS title loss to FSU. FSU was #1 in scoring defense and had one of the best overall offenses in the league. Yeah it sucked losing to them but we held them to their lowest offensive output on the season and scored more than they allowed that season. 

This is legitamently the first Loss Gus has had where we were up by a large margin early on and lost. 

No it's not. You don't mean that because FSU was better than LSU, it didn't happen do you ? It did. In fact other than what was at stake in the game, LSU is worse because they aren't as good. We also had a good lead in the '13 Georgia game and almost lost it but pulled it out on a tipped pass. 

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10 minutes ago, Eagle Eye 7 said:

No the problem in the FSU game was the same as you saw last week. Gus got the lead and decided to squat and wait it out. 

First Half of BCS Title vs FSU
Auburn: 7 Possessions, 42 plays, 242 yards and 21 points. Average scoring drive took 45 yards. Two TDs came from drives of under 30 yards...

Second Half of BCS Title vs FSU
Auburn: 6 Possessions, 36 plays, 215 yards and 10 points. Average scoring drive took 72 yards. Both scoring drives required Auburn to drive 69 yards or more.

You can say Gus "sat on it" against FSU but it was no where what we did against LSU. FSU wasnt giving Auburn the short fields in the second half that they were in the first half. Keys to the loss against FSU was special teams. Missed FG by AU and a 100yd kickoff return were the difference in points, and the fake punt on 4th down swung the momentum and likely kept FSU from being run out of the stadium.

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12 minutes ago, IronMan70 said:

No it's not. You don't mean that because FSU was better than LSU, it didn't happen do you ? It did. In fact other than what was at stake in the game, LSU is worse because they aren't as good. We also had a good lead in the '13 Georgia game and almost lost it but pulled it out on a tipped pass. 

Since you took the time to quote and bold portions of my post, it would've been nice if you kept reading past the bolded part. Ill post the full piece below...

This is legitimately the first Loss Gus has had where we were up by a large margin early on and lost. That’s fine to meltdown over that. It was by choice for whatever reason and the levels of conservative decision making were off the charts. Safe runs with our sure handed, injured/tired RBs using our base run plays to prevent turnovers or execution penalties. Deep balls were only called to eliminate ints providing short field for LSU. Gus just has trust issues and will likely be fired for it.

 

So please tell me how these are the same? Auburn gained more yards per play in the second half vs FSU than they did in the first half. The difference was FSU gave Auburn short fields on two of the 3 scoring drives in the first half. Two drives required 27yds for one and 25 for the other. The second half required to drives of 69+ yards. Auburn had one less possession in the second half as well.

First Half vs FSU
7 possessions, 42 plays, 242 yards, 3 TDs.

Second Half vs FSU
6 possessions, 36 plays, 215 yards, 1 TD 1 FG.

 

I'd say that was quite the show against the #1 scoring defense. There are plenty reasons to be pissed off at Gus, but some of you folks are looking for every single box score stat to throw in the fire. 

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22 minutes ago, FullBloodedTiger91 said:

Since you took the time to quote and bold portions of my post, it would've been nice if you kept reading past the bolded part. Ill post the full piece below...

This is legitimately the first Loss Gus has had where we were up by a large margin early on and lost. That’s fine to meltdown over that. It was by choice for whatever reason and the levels of conservative decision making were off the charts. Safe runs with our sure handed, injured/tired RBs using our base run plays to prevent turnovers or execution penalties. Deep balls were only called to eliminate ints providing short field for LSU. Gus just has trust issues and will likely be fired for it.

 

So please tell me how these are the same? Auburn gained more yards per play in the second half vs FSU than they did in the first half. The difference was FSU gave Auburn short fields on two of the 3 scoring drives in the first half. Two drives required 27yds for one and 25 for the other. The second half required to drives of 69+ yards. Auburn had one less possession in the second half as well.

First Half vs FSU
7 possessions, 42 plays, 242 yards, 3 TDs.

Second Half vs FSU
6 possessions, 36 plays, 215 yards, 1 TD 1 FG.

 

I'd say that was quite the show against the #1 scoring defense. There are plenty reasons to be pissed off at Gus, but some of you folks are looking for every single box score stat to throw in the fire. 

I read your entire post but only commented on the part I quoted. It's the same because we had a very good lead and lost both. There are many reason we lost those games after a good lead, on both O&D, but lose them we did. 

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44 minutes ago, FullBloodedTiger91 said:

How are you taking what I say as trolling? Are you advocating that Malzahn was playing not to lose all of 2014? The continued reference to the national title loss as the start of Malzahns conservative nature is a joke. 

 

You say that the chocking under pressure and being unprepared is directly tied to performance but don’t understand how his stubbornness and untrusting tendencies are tied to performance? Those qualities are what cause the “chokes” to happen. His stubbornness to run his system his way led to hires of Herb Hand who has had issues with having the OL ready out of the gate two years in a row. I didn’t think it was that hard to relate those but I’ll spell it out next time.

:-\

If stubbornness is cause for dismissal, it's a miracle John Heisman, Tom Landry and Mike Ditka had coaching careers at all.  

The part of my last post you chose not to include in your replay, the "TnTXIII" part of the post that clearly showed how Gus viewed that game.  He wishes they had been able to holdout 13 seconds longer.  Can't make it any clearer than that.  You say he "chokes" So how does he choke?  Is it that he goes full turtle?  That's my argument.

For now, I think my assertions have merit and yours... not so much.  If I really stretch and squint, I can almost see your point - that Gus' personal nature harms his decision-making, but you can't fire someone for having AS.  I mean, I'd  hire Rainman if he fielded a competitive team.  

I'm not sure what metrics Auburn has been using in recent years to hire coaches, but folks generally fire based on performance.  Gus cannot coach his players up, he can't evaluate or develop QBs at all, he doesn't get his second team prepared to play, he seems to be interfering with play selection (or can't hire a good OC) and he plays not-to-lose against tough opponents.  

And hopefully he'll soon be fired for failing in these areas.

I see you're coming around to my point of view.  A few more posts and you'll no doubt be saying my thoughts were what you originally meant.  But wait!  You're already doing that...  So I guess we're done here?

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11 minutes ago, IronMan70 said:

I read your entire post but only commented on the part I quoted. It's the same because we had a very good lead in both and lost both. There are many reasons we lost both games after a good lead but lose them we did. 

The fact that we lost after having such a large lead is indeed similar but the reason most are flaming about it is because they see we only scored 10 points in the second half against FSU and immediate thing Gus sat on it. The whole point to the rest of my post after your bolded section was to point out that being upset about the LSU loss and blowing the lead is a very acceptable response. I dont think there is a single Auburn fan that isnt mad about that. But that is where the similarities stop. 

The second half of the LSU game was simple grind the clock and play defense. No pace, no motion and only passing was done on third down with deep balls. That is not even close to what happened in the second half of the FSU BCS Title.

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This game won't cost him his job directly like the loss last year cost Les Miles his the next day but...because of the bad taste of this loss and the fact it makes our 2nd loss with still 3 very tough games left then it makes it more likely that once again Gus will have a 4 or 5 loss football team.  So, yes that loss in effect will cost those coaches their jobs and they have Gus to thank for it. 

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3 hours ago, caleb1633 said:

I don't know where Gus deviated. I went back and watched highlights from games in 2009, and his offense was totally different. There were intermediate throws, hurry up offense, other plays on first down after a big gain besides running up the gut, the wildcat would actually hand the ball off to the jet sweep. I don't get it. I don't get how he doesn't see how ridiculous some of the stuff he does is.

This is what I've been saying. We had Tate omac fannin ,,,, motion shifts.. it was hard to find the ball. Defenses worn out in the first qtr. and yes short to mid range passes with a dead armed qb. We were anything but predictable. 

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15 minutes ago, FullBloodedTiger91 said:

The fact that we lost after having such a large lead is indeed similar but the reason most are flaming about it is because they see we only scored 10 points in the second half against FSU and immediate thing Gus sat on it. The whole point to the rest of my post after your bolded section was to point out that being upset about the LSU loss and blowing the lead is a very acceptable response. I dont think there is a single Auburn fan that isnt mad about that. But that is where the similarities stop. 

The second half of the LSU game was simple grind the clock and play defense. No pace, no motion and only passing was done on third down with deep balls. That is not even close to what happened in the second half of the FSU BCS Title.

Just to add to that... in any loss, there is going to be some level of deficit in scoring, whether it was in the first half or second half. The majority of time, it occurs during the second half mainly because opposing teams have adjusted from the first half. It doesn't always mean one team went conservative.

Comparing the FSU-13 game to LSU-17 is ridiculous. The only common between the two games was that Auburn scored less during the second-half than the first-half. Auburn was much more productive during the second-half of the FSU game than the LSU game, despite facing a much better defense. Auburn did not run the ball 17 consecutive times on first down after building a 21-3 lead against FSU as they did against LSU with a 17-0 lead in the first quarter.

Finally.... the post I made regarding second-half scoring was not data from Malzahn's offense. It was actually data from the 1986, 1988, 1993, 1994, 1995, 2002, 2004 and 2005 Auburn offenses combined. Because the data showed a lack of scoring during the second-half, most would assume it was Malzahn's offense. In reality, it was the results of some of the better offenses in Auburn history.

From 1981-2008, 45.2% of Auburn's scoring (3903/8639) came during the second-half.

Under Gus Malzahn's offense, 45.2% of Auburn's scoring (1475/3257) came during the second-half.

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4 minutes ago, AURealist said:

:-\

If stubbornness is cause for dismissal, it's a miracle John Heisman, Tom Landry and Mike Ditka had coaching careers at all.  

The part of my last post you chose not to include in your replay, the "TnTXIII" part of the post that clearly showed how Gus viewed that game.  He wishes they had been able to holdout 13 seconds longer.  Can't make it any clearer than that.  You say he "chokes" So how does he choke?  Is it that he goes full turtle?  That's my argument.

For now, I think my assertions have merit and yours... not so much.  If I really stretch and squint, I can almost see your point - that Gus' personal nature harms his decision-making, but you can't fire someone for having AS.  I mean, I'd  hire Rainman if he fielded a competitive team.  

I'm not sure what metrics Auburn has been using in recent years to hire coaches, but folks generally fire based on performance.  Gus cannot coach his players up, he can't evaluate or develop QBs at all, he doesn't get his second team prepared to play, he seems to be interfering with play selection (or can't hire a good OC) and he plays not-to-lose against tough opponents.  

And hopefully he'll soon be fired for failing in these areas.

I see you're coming around to my point of view.  A few more posts and you'll no doubt be saying my thoughts were what you originally meant.  But wait!  You're already doing that...  So I guess we're done here?

If stubbornness isnt what cause Malzahn to make the decisions he has made, then are we saying that he is simply not a smart guy?

You can be stubborn and successful. I am not saying that successful coaches aren't stubborn, you made that connection or assumed that is what I meant. Between the 2015 and 2016 offseasons, Malzahn replaced the OL coach, WR coach, and the OC/QB coach. In those 3 positions he had the opportunity to reach out and get the best available. Instead he decided to get Herb Hand, Kodi Burns and Chip Lindsey. All 3 of these coaches have Malzahn connections. Herb Hands connection comes from Tulsa, and his tenures at Vandy and Penn State featured pretty poor OL performances. What did Auburn get in 2016 and 2017 to start the year? 4 games of being one of the worst lines at allowing TFLs. Kodi Burns replaced DC who was an ace recruiter. Its too early to tell how he is doing in recruiting and so far the WRs have been the same if not better than when DC was here. No complaints, but I do think there were more qualified coaches for that role. Then comes the OC hire. Out of all the people we couldve brought in to make serious overhauls to the offense, we hired a guy who was a grad assistant 4 years ago. Do we think that if Gus had brought in a real OC, that we wouldve had the issues with "Gus is still calling the plays"? 

 

So tell me how that isnt stubbornness and how those hires dont show signs of distrust? You keep saying your points have merit but mine dont, even though all I was doing was providing reason for your points. The stubborness and lack of Trust has caused the choking in the games. The stubborness of not wanting to give the backup QBs real reps in mop up duty have come back to bite us in 2015 and 2016 when our starting QB was hurt and we had no viable options to turn to. 

 

Youre being obtuse. Your original comment was snarky from the get go and simply said that choking and not having the players ready for big games is what will get him fired. My response was that the cause of his firing is deeper then that. Simply saying he chokes in big games and his teams are unprepared are blanket statements. Why does he choke? Is it him being conservative? Is it a lack of knowledge? Is an unwillingness to change? Why do his teams seem unprepared in big games? Is it because of the inexperienced staff he hired? Is it because he surrounded himself with yes men? 

 

Again, let me reiterate that I am not advocating that Malzahn shouldn't be fired or that I think when he is fired that the press conference should say "Gus is stubborn, we need a coach who isnt stubborn". Nick Saban is very stubborn, but you know who made the decision to hire a spread guy and implemented an up tempo style offense despite hating it? Nick Saban... You can be stubborn and make changes against your own preference or tendencies. Or, you can run the ball continuously into 10 man fronts. 

To your point about not being able to coach players up or develop/evaluate QBs, what metric do you use to evaluate this? As far as evaluation, Cam Newton and Nick Marshall were great. Stidham so far has shown promise and looks to be as advertised. I think we did a fine job at evaluating those guys. Notable misses were JF3 and JJ. JF3 was a bigger evaluation miss IMO. 2 schools had him and he didnt start at either school. JJ had all the measurable's and even played at a high level in the meaningful snaps he was given. However in 2015 the turnover machine made its debut. I think what Malzahn did with Sean White was good as well. Before being injured, he was leading the SEC in passing efficiency in 2016. He was a much better passer in 2016 than 2015. Chris Todd is another example and those are just QBs. Can you name another coach that has had as many consecutive 1000yd rushers as Malzahn has had? Malzahn has had atleast 1 1000yd rusher every year he has been at the college level. Many of those backs played in the NFL as well. 

 

Again, next time I will be sure to spell everything out since you require all gaps to be filled. If anything else needs to be explained, let me know. If you wish to continue being obtuse and condescending, Ill do the same. 

 

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