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Wiley and Purifoy

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16 minutes ago, auburnphan said:

adding to that I believe that 2nd round contracts are not guaranteed either.

But they have more flexibility....at least according to this item:    http://nba.nbcsports.com/2016/06/21/why-second-round-nba-draft-picks-might-get-paid-more-than-first-rounders-this-year/

Wiley's issues are....possible injury, not having a very good season or finding himself in the mix with a good batch of players that draft year.   The fact that he is projected as a 2nd round pick does not mean he will automatically be a first rounder 2 years from now.

Hard to tell what sitting out a year will mean. ...maybe depends on whether BP spends any time with him the rest of the year now that it's certain he won't play.....but guess he could be a scout team guy or something if that's allowed?  but better to spend the time on guys who are playing this season.  

 

 

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37 minutes ago, AU64 said:

But they have more flexibility....at least according to this item:    http://nba.nbcsports.com/2016/06/21/why-second-round-nba-draft-picks-might-get-paid-more-than-first-rounders-this-year/

Wiley's issues are....possible injury, not having a very good season or finding himself in the mix with a good batch of players that draft year.   The fact that he is projected as a 2nd round pick does not mean he will automatically be a first rounder 2 years from now.

Hard to tell what sitting out a year will mean. ...maybe depends on whether BP spends any time with him the rest of the year now that it's certain he won't play.....but guess he could be a scout team guy or something if that's allowed?  but better to spend the time on guys who are playing this season.  

 

 

The difference in your NFL analogy here is that Wiley has next to zero film vs top competition. He is not a Kyrie Irving talent where he can play ~half a season and just declare and be a 1st round lock. Keep in mind if he did not expedite his HS graduation he would be a freshman this year. While some said he was a 1 and done player, some people with more knowledge like Charles Barkley has said he is not a 1 and done and needs at least 2 years. So if he comes back next year he's not deviating from a 2 year college stint -- his just happens to be 2.5 years in real time. And I don't think there is a stigma attached to 2nd year players, but I think when you start to venture into junior and senior players there is some, and not always accurate, stigma attached to them as if they're not good (which is what worries me about Heron).

Does anyone have a comparison to a current NBA player that they could see Mustapha being like at the next level? He's one of my favorite players on the team -- a rock steady, NBA-level body, basket waiting to happen. But I would love, love, love to get a 3rd year out of him at AU.

Edited by Tiger
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2 hours ago, AU64 said:

But they have more flexibility....at least according to this item:    http://nba.nbcsports.com/2016/06/21/why-second-round-nba-draft-picks-might-get-paid-more-than-first-rounders-this-year/

Wiley's issues are....possible injury, not having a very good season or finding himself in the mix with a good batch of players that draft year.   The fact that he is projected as a 2nd round pick does not mean he will automatically be a first rounder 2 years from now.

Hard to tell what sitting out a year will mean. ...maybe depends on whether BP spends any time with him the rest of the year now that it's certain he won't play.....but guess he could be a scout team guy or something if that's allowed?  but better to spend the time on guys who are playing this season.  

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Tiger said:

The difference in your NFL analogy here is that Wiley has next to zero film vs top competition. He is not a Kyrie Irving talent where he can play ~half a season and just declare and be a 1st round lock. Keep in mind if he did not expedite his HS graduation he would be a freshman this year. While some said he was a 1 and done player, some people with more knowledge like Charles Barkley has said he is not a 1 and done and needs at least 2 years. So if he comes back next year he's not deviating from a 2 year college stint -- his just happens to be 2.5 years in real time. And I don't think there is a stigma attached to 2nd year players, but I think when you start to venture into junior and senior players there is some, and not always accurate, stigma attached to them as if they're not good (which is what worries me about Heron).

Does anyone have a comparison to a current NBA player that they could see Mustapha being like at the next level? He's one of my favorite players on the team -- a rock steady, NBA-level body, basket waiting to happen. But I would love, love, love to get a 3rd year out of him at AU.

another difference is shelf life of NFL vs NBA.  Most players who make the NBA will be there longer than in the NFL.  JRs in football have already beaten up their bodies so bad that they need to get while they can.  At that point they are 20-21 years old.  These basketball kids are 18-19 when they join the league, so they are already a couple of years ahead of football players.

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http://www.nba.com/nuggets/features/junior_bridgeman_20100610.html

Average life of NBA player is not much longer than average of NFL.....playing lots of games and injuries, etc. etc.   Just that some guys seem to play forever and others disappear right away. 

JMO but for Wiley there is no easy answer......a new crop of young players every year and sometimes there is more talent and sometimes less....so his rating when he goes out might depend as much on who else is in the class as how well he does.   I just figure that his sitting out a full year (even if he's practicing) will set him back quite a bit....but either way he goes, he will do just fine. 

As for Heron....will be interesting to see what others have to say....I don't follow the NBA enough to know but what little I do see, I wonder where MH would fit into most teams... does not seem to have the ball  handling or speed for outside and does not look like a guy who could play wing.  Love him at AU....hope he stays.

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Getting back on Wiley, what's the timeline for an appeal? Is there any? If they're going to let him play college basketball again, I don't see what reasoning there is to suspend him for a season. If he is allowed to play at all again, that means he did not receive improper benefits, correct? 

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22 minutes ago, AU64 said:

http://www.nba.com/nuggets/features/junior_bridgeman_20100610.html

Average life of NBA player is not much longer than average of NFL.....playing lots of games and injuries, etc. etc.   Just that some guys seem to play forever and others disappear right away. 

JMO but for Wiley there is no easy answer......a new crop of young players every year and sometimes there is more talent and sometimes less....so his rating when he goes out might depend as much on who else is in the class as how well he does.   I just figure that his sitting out a full year (even if he's practicing) will set him back quite a bit....but either way he goes, he will do just fine. 

As for Heron....will be interesting to see what others have to say....I don't follow the NBA enough to know but what little I do see, I wonder where MH would fit into most teams... does not seem to have the ball  handling or speed for outside and does not look like a guy who could play wing.  Love him at AU....hope he stays.

No disrespect 64, but Heron is the prototypical wing IMO. 6'7 can shoot from outside, put the ball on the floor and get to the bucket all while having a strong body. He can create his own shot without any help and he hits contested jumpers, and takes contact going to the bucket without hindering his ability to finish. I don't know how his lateral quickness translates to the next level exactly( and I don't think anyone would consider him "explosive") but he is a SG who can play SF through and through IMO.

The way you describe him makes it seem like you're talking about Anfernee McLemore as they are both 6'7.

Edited by Tiger

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In no way do I see Austin playing for AU next year,- I’d be surprised if he doesn’t declare for the draft when the time comes and be done with the all the college crap. Hope I’m wrong. 

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4 hours ago, steeleagle said:

IF you read some of the articles that came out right after the NCAA handed down the ruling, then it would appear that Auburn was shocked by Wiley being ruled ineligible for the whole year. Auburn had felt through sources that at some time this year, that he would be allowed to play in 2018. This ruling to Auburn was a shock.

 

Do you have a link to any articles? I just haven't been able to find much comment from Auburn or Bruce about the situation since the ruling. I saw where Auburn released a statement and Bruce spoke on Tiger Talk, but that's about it.

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2 minutes ago, Tiger said:

No disrespect 64, but Heron is the prototypical wing IMO. 6'7 can shoot from outside, put the ball on the floor and get to the bucket all while having a strong body. He can create his own shot without any help and he hits contested jumpers, and takes contact going to the bucket without hindering his ability to finish. I don't know how his lateral quickness translates to the next level exactly( and I don't think anyone would consider him "explosive") but he is a SG who can play SF through and through IMO.

The way you describe him makes it seem like you're talking about Anfernee McLemore as they are both 6'7.

Mustapha is 6’5 for what it’s worth. 

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17 hours ago, abw0004 said:

It is what it is.  These are the consequences to breaking the rules.  

if only we could see and hear the tarholes' (NCAA's) bewilderment for this statement... 

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49 minutes ago, Tiger said:

No disrespect 64, but Heron is the prototypical wing IMO. 6'7 can shoot from outside, put the ball on the floor and get to the bucket all while having a strong body. He can create his own shot without any help and he hits contested jumpers, and takes contact going to the bucket without hindering his ability to finish. I don't know how his lateral quickness translates to the next level exactly( and I don't think anyone would consider him "explosive") but he is a SG who can play SF through and through IMO.

The way you describe him makes it seem like you're talking about Anfernee McLemore as they are both 6'7.

He is listed on the roster as 6'-5 and just watching the games and how he looks compared to other players I'm thinking that's a generous assessment. 

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I'm sorry, no idea why I said 6'7. I must have been thinking about Purifoy. I'll blame it on Friday ;)

Even more so, at 6'5 he's a SG, he doesn't have an inside player's game at all in my opinion he's a pure wing. If his listed height is correct, he is right on the nose in terms of SGs entering the NBA Draft as of 2 years ago (https://fansided.com/2016/06/23/average-position-measurements-2016/)

I understand I killed my argument by saying he was Purifoy's height instead of the accurate height but  IMO I still think he's a wing with appropriate size (if he's in fact 6'5), and has a wing's skill set. I don't know if he's going to be a stud at the NBA level but I personally don't see anything but SG when I look at him...which of course doesn't mean much lol

 

Am I misunderstanding you here, @AU64? You aren't saying he's got more of a big man's skillset than a wing's skillset, right? Because if he doesn't have a wing's skill set I'm just not sure what type of skill set he has.

Edited by Tiger

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Regarding Wiley moving on to the NBA this year... I live in Memphis & have become something of a Grizzlies fan (tough year this) where I've seen the truth of Charles Barkley's view on players going to the NBA early. The crucial issue (says Chuck) is whether or not a guy is ready to be in some NBA team's regular rotation. Very few (says Chuck) of those who leave early are. So, they either sit on the bench, which does nothing for their development into successful NBA players, or they're sent to the D league where they play in some sketchy gyms before 25 people & nobody cares which team wins. Far better (says Chuck) for them to stay in college, play & develop skills, face pressure & learn to win, & have the experience of the Big Dance. So, I've watched Andrew Harrison with the Grizzlies, who left Kentucky after 2 years, played an entire year in the D league (when he could have been playing at Rupp & going deep into the tournament), & who still hasn't shown that a long NBA career is there for him (though, granted, in 3 years he's certainly made more money than I'll ever make). His brother Aaron has done even less. Kobi Simmons left Arizona after 1 year & is playing D league this year (I think the Grizzlies may have brought him up for a couple of games recently as a sort of "tryout" with the big boys since this season has gone off the rails, but he wouldn't have been there otherwise). That's better than playing before Arizona fans & going to the Big Dance? And you can look at him & tell he's not physically ready for the NBA. Then there's Dillon Brooks who played 4 years at Oregon & is 1 of few bright spots in a dismal Grizzlies year. They're calling him "the future." I think we'd agree on the front end that Chuck knows NBA basketball, & my minimal observations do nothing to disconfirm that. So, with all that, I hope the question Wiley is pursuing is whether or not he's ready to be in a team's regular rotation. If not, I think he'd be better off coming back to Auburn. And, FWIW, last year Chuck said he thought Wiley needed at least 2 years of development in college & probably 3.

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56 minutes ago, TigerTennis80 said:

And, FWIW, last year Chuck said he thought Wiley needed at least 2 years of development in college & probably 3.

That's probably true for Wiley and could make the same observation for the majority of players who jump early because of the $$ though unlike a lot of the college players going early, Wiley definitely looks the part of an NBA player.....don't know if he has the mental toughness and discipline.....but he's got the body.  Just noted that the frosh center from Arky was listed in top 20...and would put Wiley against him pretty much any day. 

As for Heron....just not sure that he is enough of a shooter for the SG role, not a quick enough ball handler for the PG and not big enough for the wing.   He's a very good college player....no doubt about that...but just wondering about what role would suit him in the pros.....and I'm talking about possibility of leaving early or what his draft slot might be? 

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Can you imagine how awesome we would be if Pearl convinced Wiley, Purifoy, AND Heron to stay for one more year?  Heron has to be thinking about the draft after this year. And, there’s no doubt some hard feelings between Wiley, Purifoy, Auburn, & the NCAA. But wow, that would be awesome if they stayed.

If Babatunde reclassifies to 2018, then it would give us the deepest team in the country. And it would be Pearl’s best recruiting victory yet.

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If Wiley stays another year and with the roster we have now a serious Championship run is in the making.  A championship run would redeem his family's name and standing within Auburn lore.  Leaving for the NBA, well, the Christmas card list shrinks greatly, one could say.   

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If the NCAA ruled Wiley is ok for next season that makes me concerned that their hold up on Danjel is not about this season it’s beyond next year. 

I would like to be wrong. 

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10 hours ago, Tiger said:

No disrespect 64, but Heron is the prototypical wing IMO. 6'7 can shoot from outside, put the ball on the floor and get to the bucket all while having a strong body. He can create his own shot without any help and he hits contested jumpers, and takes contact going to the bucket without hindering his ability to finish. I don't know how his lateral quickness translates to the next level exactly( and I don't think anyone would consider him "explosive") but he is a SG who can play SF through and through IMO.

The way you describe him makes it seem like you're talking about Anfernee McLemore as they are both 6'7.

 

Based on what Heron has shown, he is Auburns version of Sindarious Thornwell. Potential to be SEC POY but likely a rotational /role guy at best in NBA playing limited minutes. People take for granted just how dang hard it is to make it in the NBA

 

Heron isn't near quick enough to defend the 2 and not long/quick enough to defend the 3 based on AU llay

Heron can create some shots on his own at the college level but not at an elite level that is NBA worthy

The reason he hits contested jumpers is because he isn't able to create his own shot at will at college level like a NBA talent guard. The fact that Heron is even taking contested jumpers is a negative in terms of decision making

Hard to say he is a great outside shooter when he is sitting at 30% on 3FG right now. Ya he shot better FR year, but inconsistency is a huge negative for a shooter. Plus those Melo "Shake n Shoot" long 2 bricks areNt doing him favors. 

On the drive, Mustapha hasn't shown the explosion necessary to be an offensive threat off the bounce. At the NBA level he won't be as physically imposing on drive and needs to show more finesse/athletcism 

 

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Nice commentary GC...and agree with how you see things.  NBA is a different game and at least as big a step as when guys move from HS to college.  He's right where belongs in my view and from just a little research on ratings of players for future drafts  there will not be much pressure on him to jump early.

If he sticks around, whether he makes it in the NBA or not, he has a chance to be remembered at Auburn as a leader who helped restore some credibility to the AU basketball program....maybe even get his jersey hung or something.  Bruce does not play the 'star" system so MH's career stats might not be too gaudy but still pretty good.... it would be nice for the school to recognize players for what they accomplished at AU..... and not what they do after they leave. 

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Honest assessment of Wiley and Heron.

Wiley 6'10" big body. Last year was not dominant on the boards but when he played for US team that showed huge improvement. At this time good hands but not great hands. Uses his body well to score inside but has not shown intermediate jump shot, less than average FT shooter. Post move has shown quick feet and can beat man and dunk but has not shown other skills like hook shot or turn around jumper.  Hurt during stint with US team and again before season. 2nd round pick at best at this time.

Heron listed at 6'5" left handed which is a plus, solid body may not really be 6'5" good 3 point shooter but not elite yet. Can drive to basket and score but does not have explosive jump. Does not do many pull up jumpers.  Adequate defender who has improved a lot this year. Decent ball handling skills but not elite. 3rd round pick at best.

Assuming they both stay another year draft stock could go up but only if they get better by staying.  Wiley needs to develop a more all around inside game, improve his post defense. Heron needs to add to his scoring resume more pull up jumpers, improved man to man defense and improves ball handling skills. Wiley has potential to be 1st rounder 2nd round is most Heron can hope for.

Edited by AuburnNTexas
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Just my thought but I think it is probably unlikely for us to win the appeal on Wiley. That said I have a gut feeling that if they allow him to play next year he will return to AU. I think he feels bad about how things went down and feels he has some unfinished business at AU. This has to do with his mom and dad’s history with the school. I believe he will feel it is important to restore his family to reputation they both earned here during their time as student athletes. Like I said just a gut feeling.

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On January 11, 2018 at 5:39 PM, jared52 said:

 

Well, clears that up!

Moving on.....

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On January 12, 2018 at 9:24 AM, AU64 said:

But they have more flexibility....at least according to this item:    http://nba.nbcsports.com/2016/06/21/why-second-round-nba-draft-picks-might-get-paid-more-than-first-rounders-this-year/

Wiley's issues are....possible injury, not having a very good season or finding himself in the mix with a good batch of players that draft year.   The fact that he is projected as a 2nd round pick does not mean he will automatically be a first rounder 2 years from now.

Hard to tell what sitting out a year will mean. ...maybe depends on whether BP spends any time with him the rest of the year now that it's certain he won't play.....but guess he could be a scout team guy or something if that's allowed?  but better to spend the time on guys who are playing this season.  

 

 

I would think the scout team guy part would explain Spencer coming on like he has

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On 1/12/2018 at 11:59 PM, GenesChin said:

 

Based on what Heron has shown, he is Auburns version of Sindarious Thornwell. Potential to be SEC POY but likely a rotational /role guy at best in NBA playing limited minutes. People take for granted just how dang hard it is to make it in the NBA

 

Heron isn't near quick enough to defend the 2 and not long/quick enough to defend the 3 based on AU llay

Heron can create some shots on his own at the college level but not at an elite level that is NBA worthy

The reason he hits contested jumpers is because he isn't able to create his own shot at will at college level like a NBA talent guard. The fact that Heron is even taking contested jumpers is a negative in terms of decision making

Hard to say he is a great outside shooter when he is sitting at 30% on 3FG right now. Ya he shot better FR year, but inconsistency is a huge negative for a shooter. Plus those Melo "Shake n Shoot" long 2 bricks areNt doing him favors. 

On the drive, Mustapha hasn't shown the explosion necessary to be an offensive threat off the bounce. At the NBA level he won't be as physically imposing on drive and needs to show more finesse/athletcism 

 

This is a good insightful post please post more on our players. While my intent wasn't to say one way or another whether he was going to be an NBA star or not I was more meaning  "I only see SG when I look at him" and maybe I misunderstood @AU64but I felt like 64 said he had more of a big man's skillset which I was disagreeing with. Also, always good to see another NC resident on the board

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