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Gus would be wise to look around


aubiefifty

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We don't need to hire Chip Kelly or Nick Saban. We just need to hire somebody that has the same type of skill sets. The same way Georgia evaluated an assistant named Smart and then hired him.There are 100 coaches out there that could have taken Auburn's talent level and beat LSU this year. The coach at Troy took Troy's talent and beat LSU. Don't you think he could have beaten LSU with Auburn's talent?  The world is not going to end if we don't hire Chip Kelly. But you shouldn't keep someone that is 0 and 8 versus top two rivals the past 4 seasons if that's what happens. Having no chance is not as good as moving on and having hope again.  

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1 hour ago, doc4aday said:

I agree in part with your assessment, but if we lose badly the 2 most important games, can we afford another year of waiting?  My hopes and prayers are that Gus will coach the best 2 games of his career and win those games or at least go 1 out of 2 and take the other down to the wire. This would be great.  Does Gus have what it takes to turn the corner and be a 9-11 win per season coach? I am not sure, but I do think he will try his best to do so. He could wind up at UA (Ark.) with an 8-4 record.  If this happens, then yes we will have a new coach.

This question will be proven very, very soon Doc.  ALL will be revealed very soon and we will have the final verdict/answer.

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15 minutes ago, AUBourne said:

We don't need to hire Chip Kelly or Nick Saban. We just need to hire somebody that has the same type of skill sets. The same way Georgia evaluated an assistant named Smart and then hired him.There are 100 coaches out there that could have taken Auburn's talent level and beat LSU this year. The coach at Troy took Troy's talent and beat LSU. Don't you think he could have beaten LSU with Auburn's talent?  The world is not going to end if we don't hire Chip Kelly. But you shouldn't keep someone that is 0 and 8 versus top two rivals the past 4 seasons if that's what happens. Having no chance is not as good as moving on and having hope again.  

I'm just amazed that so many people are touting the Troy win and not anyone raking Orgeron over the coals for putting his team on the field and letting an FCS team kick them around.   JMO but when you want to blame a coach for a truly bad performance, that would be exhibit A...though I guess you have to give Ed O some credit for bouncing back with some respectable showings after that. 

As for those 100 coaches, how about dropping some names to help our president or next AD with the selection.  I know folks engage in hyperbole on this site quite a bit but give it a try. . 

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36 minutes ago, AUBourne said:

We don't need to hire Chip Kelly or Nick Saban. We just need to hire somebody that has the same type of skill sets. T

Just curious, which coaches have Saban and Kelly skill sets in your opinion?

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6 minutes ago, Gowebb11 said:

Just curious, which coaches have Saban and Kelly skill sets in your opinion?

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27 minutes ago, Gowebb11 said:

Just curious, which coaches have Saban and Kelly skill sets in your opinion?

I'm not sure I want a coach with a skill set that will require him to go before the NCAA for interview and clearance to coach college again.  Kelly tucked tail and ran to the pro's.  He absolutely hates to recruit as evidenced by his propensity to hire recruiting services/agents to attract talent to the Ducks and landed him with a show cause from the NCAA.  

Is there anything wrong with the VaTech coach (Fuentes)?  He built up Memphis and seems to be keeping the Hokies in the mix with a 10-4 record last year and sitting at 7-2 right now.

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13 minutes ago, keesler said:

I'm not sure I want a coach with a skill set that will require him to go before the NCAA for interview and clearance to coach college again.  Kelly tucked tail and ran to the pro's.  He absolutely hates to recruit as evidenced by his propensity to hire recruiting services/agents to attract talent to the Ducks and landed him with a show cause from the NCAA.  

Is there anything wrong with the VaTech coach (Fuentes)?  He built up Memphis and seems to be keeping the Hokies in the mix with a 10-4 record last year and sitting at 7-2 right now.

Fuentes is 2-4 against ranked teams the last two years. Wins were against North Carolina in 2016, and West Virginia this year. 

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Fuentes is good, but I'm not sure he is ready for the SEC just yet. Leave him in a Power 5 conference to earn his chops, and he's might be a hot commodity in a couple years.

What about Tee Martin, if we could get Steele and the rest of the defensive coaches to remain on staff? The USC offense has looked unstoppable most of the year. I guess Sam Darnold would make any OC look good, but Martin has recruited some serious talent. He's from Mobile too. And, you know Tennessee must already be interested.

 

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40 minutes ago, FullBloodedTiger91 said:

Fuentes is 2-4 against ranked teams the last two years. Wins were against North Carolina in 2016, and West Virginia this year. 

Wins against ranked teams is a tough scale.

Saw elsewhere that only 11 active head coaches with 5 full seasons are over 50% against ranked teams.....Urban Myer highest at about 70%      http://www.fbschedules.com/2017/07/which-college-football-head-coaches-best-worst-vs-top-25/

I'm thinking that most of the new coaches coming into the SEC next season will have only played a couple games against ranked Power 5 teams....much less have a winning record.   

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1 hour ago, FullBloodedTiger91 said:

Fuentes is 2-4 against ranked teams the last two years. Wins were against North Carolina in 2016, and West Virginia this year. 

He beat ole miss the year they won the sugar bowl. Extend it out to more than just the past 2 years because he does have more wins vs ranked teams.

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4 hours ago, Gowebb11 said:

As my original posts indicates, I too am ready to make a change, for the right person. I have full confidence in our ability to fire Gus. I don't have the same confidence in our ability to improve our situation. 

3 of our last 4 hires:

A 30 something Samford coach 

A 5-19 Iowa State coach coming off a 2 win season

Gus with 1 year HC experience at a Sunbelt school

All I'm saying is if we fire Gus, we better get the next hire very, very right. It can get worse.  

 

I am hesitant to point this out but I think it has merit:

The same AD did not hire all those people.

Bowden had an undefeated season, actually he was 20-0-1 after 21 games I think.  Regardless who recruited the players, he coached them and made all the decisions.

Chiz won a NC and hired the coordinators that helped him win.

Gus for all his faults, got us to the NC.  He has changed a lot in 4 yrs, but he got us there.

Every coach since Barfield has either won championships or had an undefeated season or both.  You can win at Auburn unless we accept mediocrity for several years and soil our ability to recruit.  That is the real threat and my concern.

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Someone will be looking at that NC State coach.  He nearly beat Clemson in consecutive years and if you look at the scores the last two years, the team never has no "bad losses" like UGA/LSU for us or similar.   Also when he loses to a ranked team, it's by  2-7 points.  

You know he doesn't have the talent compete with Miami, but he does.

You know he doesn't have the talent compete with FSU, but he does.

You know he doesn't have the talent compete with Clemson, but he does.

You know he doesn't have the talent compete with Lousville, but he does.

I wonder what kind of recruiting classes he is working with.

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34 minutes ago, Beaker said:

I am hesitant to point this out but I think it has merit:

The same AD did not hire all those people.

Bowden had an undefeated season, actually he was 20-0-1 after 21 games I think.  Regardless who recruited the players, he coached them and made all the decisions.

Chiz won a NC and hired the coordinators that helped him win.

Gus for all his faults, got us to the NC.  He has changed a lot in 4 yrs, but he got us there.

Every coach since Barfield has either won championships or had an undefeated season or both.  You can win at Auburn unless we accept mediocrity for several years and soil our ability to recruit.  That is the real threat and my concern.

I share your concern Beaker. Mediocrity is not something any true Auburn fan wants, certainly not me. As my posts in this thread have indicated, I believe a change is due and imminent. You're correct that the coaches I pointed out had some excellent success at AU, but proved incapable capable of sustaining it. As I've stated, get me Stoops or Kelly and fire Gus. But I'm not confident in our ability to hire a coach of that caliber. History backs me up on that. If we repeat that history, we will be on here in 2022 having the same discussion again. We need to really think this one through. That's all I'm saying. 

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13 hours ago, AU64 said:

I'm just amazed that so many people are touting the Troy win and not anyone raking Orgeron over the coals for putting his team on the field and letting an FCS team kick them around.   JMO but when you want to blame a coach for a truly bad performance, that would be exhibit A...though I guess you have to give Ed O some credit for bouncing back with some respectable showings after that. 

As for those 100 coaches, how about dropping some names to help our president or next AD with the selection.  I know folks engage in hyperbole on this site quite a bit but give it a try. . 

12 hours ago, Gowebb11 said:

Just curious, which coaches have Saban and Kelly skill sets in your opinion?

So many coaches out there that have a better resumes than what Chizik, Bowden or Gus had when they were hired. The final verdict is not out on Gus but I would definitely say most of our recent hires had success because of AU and not the other way around. What could AU do with an actual elite coach? 

 I don't have the resources to hunt for skeletons in the closet or vet personalities but that would have to be done to of course.  But off the top of my head I would start by looking at head coaches that had much greater success than their current employer normally has. 

I would also consider head coaches and assistants that learned and trained in the systems of great coaches that have established great coaching trees already such as Saban, Belichick, Bill Synder, Hal Mumme, Les Miles, and Bob Davie.

Head coaches to consider are currently at places like Wyoming, SMU, Toldeo, Tulsa, Memphis, Central Florida, South Florida, Texas-San Antonio, and North Dakota State. If you want to break down by state there are 3 head coaches just in Alabama that deserve an interview not to mention the two coordinators at Alabama.

I have given up on watching the NFL to know who is the trending, respected assistant coaches but I imagine there are a good 10 to 20 names. In the college ranks there is the usual list of suspects, Venables, T-Martin, Mario Cristobal, both coordinators at Texas are hot names (Todd Orlando and Tim Beck), Lake at UW, Jim Leavitt was great at USF now assistant at UO. Dave Arranda will be a head coach one day despite working with Coach O.

Could also touch base with guys at other power 5 schools (they do change jobs sometimes). Northwestern, NC State, Wisconsin, etc.   Oh and would anyone not be amused seeing Les Miles at AU?

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20 hours ago, AUTigerTime said:

Pump the brakes people.

I think we need to let our new AD settle in and get a lay of the land before we start looking for head coaches. Let him see what he has to work with, and what personality types will work with our leadership and boosters. Because honestly, if the coach can't communicate well with the BOT and boosters, then it'll be a failed hire long term regardless of how good he is. The first bump in the road we cross, all hell will break lose.

I also think it's a bit premature to be going ahead and looking at firing a coach that will easily win 8 games this year, and still has the theoretical possibility of winning 10 (and that's before the post-season begins). The only reason people are giving up on the Bama and UGA games (and thus our coach) is because they are ranked #1 and #2. If they were each ranked 10-25 or so, I don't think anyone would be considering firing him yet. It's dumb to base the firing of our coach on the ranking of our rivals. This is how you get a program spiraling out of control (see UT).

I mean, if we fire Malzahn and our prospective new coach asks the questions "Why did you fire Malzahn?", do you think "He failed to beat the #1 and #2 teams in the nation this year." will go over well? We're going to look unreasonable and unstable especially having let go of our AD. Three of our loses will have been against Top 5 teams, and he deserves to get fired?

And regardless, we STILL have a chance against Bama+UGA. They're home games against our rivals. I'm not quitting on this team yet.

That is not and will not be the case.  Coaches are tight nit  group.  SEC coaches, whether HC, Coordinators, or position coaches are all well aware of each other, their personalities an tendencies. Will Muschamps staff at  Carolina are  very well aware of Gus's strengths and weaknesses since both Ellis Johnson and Muschamp are there.  Because of Muschamp and his relationship with Saban and Smart, he Bama and Georgia staff are well aware of Gus  and his mindset and tendencies.  Dameyan Craig going to LSU, I guarantee you, Les Miles and staff  picked his brain about Gus.   What do you  think they all know about  Gus at this point?  He doesn't make  adjustments.  They know how he recruits.  He has to be involved  and micro  mange the offense.  How he game plans.  How he coaches games. 

So when Gus gets fired, they all know that it wasn't because Auburn is unreasonable.  It is because the same guy that hired Chizik hired  Gus.  Auburn is  looking to  clean up  the mess Jacobs made  with bad hires.  Gus didn't want to evolve as  a coach.  He didn't want others input.  Gus is really just a high school coach that made the most of his opportunities.  Because of Will Muschamp, many coaches did not have a favorable view of Auburn because of Jacobs.  He told other coaches that  Jacobs is an A-hole.

Also, when Maryland fired Ralph Friedgen after a 9-4 season, did other coaches stay away because Maryland was being unreasonable? No!  It is well known in both college and the  NFL that although Friedgen is an amazing OC and HC, he is just a miserable human being to be around.  People cannot stand him and ddespite the winning  the Maryland athletic department had enough.

Malzahn was not  more qualified than Kirby Smart, but we hired  him over Smart anyways.  Why?  Because throughout the SEC, Auburns athletic department while under the supervision of  Jay Jacobs was notorious for nepotism.  Coaches know that.  It is not a secret.  But now Jacobs is gone.  Coaches view of Auburn is going to change.

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5 hours ago, AUBourne said:
45 minutes ago, ToomersStreet said:

Malzahn was not  more qualified than Kirby Smart, but we hired  him over Smart anyways. 

 

That's your view but other people disagreed.   As for a future coach, there are a lot of prospects out there but sounds to me like folks here are looking for a coach who can come in an immediately beat bama and ga......or do so the second year.  Yet all those prospects have virtually no experience at the SEC level as a head coach.  And of course, any new coach would have to bring in an entire staff....though he would have the option perhaps of keeping some of the current staff but more likely he would have to replace Steele, Garner. Lindsey and the other dozen or so assistants ....and find equal or better coaches.   Not an easy task. 

As for the nepotism thing...what is more nepotism than UGa hiring a guy who used to play there....because he used to play there.    Not sure what your definition of nepotism is but in fact, AU has mostly hired not-AU people.  Some have had a year or two here previously but coaches move all over the place and come and go regularly but in the case of Gus or Chiz....they had done well at AU and knew the recruiting landscape......so hard for me to see why that all of a sudden is a negative....and that might want a person with similar or lesser accomplishments who would need a GPS to find Auburn University. 

Gus is gonna get fired....this year ....or next  or the year after....that's life for major college coaches these days. Just saying that I'm very doubtful that the program will be improved by any coaching prospect who would actually take the job even with JJ gone. 

PS....and funny that someone used Maryland as an example...fired their 9 win coach because he was a horses patooty....and now are on their third coach in 6 years and have yet to win more than 7 games. 

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16 hours ago, GwillMac6 said:

He beat ole miss the year they won the sugar bowl. Extend it out to more than just the past 2 years because he does have more wins vs ranked teams.

If you consider the context of my response you will see why I used those 2 years. The person I was responding to was talking about Virginia Tech. Besides, I don’t think it’s fair to include his time at Memphis because most of the time your ranked teams are going to be P5 type opponents. I think that puts Memphis at a disadvantage while getting a p5 win is special though considering that disadvantage. 

So to expand it out for you. Since 2012, Fuentes is 3-8 against Ranked competition at the time of the matchup. 

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17 hours ago, AU64 said:

Wins against ranked teams is a tough scale.

Saw elsewhere that only 11 active head coaches with 5 full seasons are over 50% against ranked teams.....Urban Myer highest at about 70%      http://www.fbschedules.com/2017/07/which-college-football-head-coaches-best-worst-vs-top-25/

I'm thinking that most of the new coaches coming into the SEC next season will have only played a couple games against ranked Power 5 teams....much less have a winning record.   

Which is why I chose to limit Fuentes to only his years as the HC of a P5 team in the ACC. Hell the only reason why I used w/l against ranked opponents was that the chief complaint about Malzahn is that he beats up on crap teams but loses to the crap teams, so if Malzahns results are unacceptable, why get someone who isn’t performing near him (if that data is available).

 

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6 minutes ago, FullBloodedTiger91 said:

Which is why I chose to limit Fuentes to only his years as the HC of a P5 team in the ACC. Hell the only reason why I used w/l against ranked opponents was that the chief complaint about Malzahn is that he beats up on crap teams but loses to the crap teams, so if Malzahns results are unacceptable, why get someone who isn’t performing near him (if that data is available).

 

That's a good point but to be honest, some coaches end up playing ranked teams when they don't have near the resources to be competitive....or are just in a tough league.   Especially coaches from the lower rated conferences who play ranked teams as their homecoming turkey. 

Some folks here like Mullen for example.... but he has one of the worst records against ranked teams among Power 5 coaches.  On the other hand, who wants to play bama, Lsu and Auburn who are ranked just about every year....and then pick up games with Ole Miss or TAMU and at least one SEC East powerhouse?  . So how does one rank DM?   hard to say ?  

Fuentes has probably made the best of a difficult situation though he inherited a pretty strong program and did not suffer much rebuilding.

What / who bothers me are guys like Frost, Brohm  (sp?)  and others who have almost no big time experience or success. 

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7 minutes ago, AU64 said:

That's a good point but to be honest, some coaches end up playing ranked teams when they don't have near the resources to be competitive....or are just in a tough league.   Especially coaches from the lower rated conferences who play ranked teams as their homecoming turkey. 

Some folks here like Mullen for example.... but he has one of the worst records against ranked teams among Power 5 coaches.  On the other hand, who wants to play bama, Lsu and Auburn who are ranked just about every year....and then pick up games with Ole Miss or TAMU and at least one SEC East powerhouse?  . So how does one rank DM?   hard to say ?  

Fuentes has probably made the best of a difficult situation though he inherited a pretty strong program and did not suffer much rebuilding.

What / who bothers me are guys like Frost, Brohm  (sp?)  and others who have almost no big time experience or success. 

Good post AU64.

The comparison to Mullen is a good one as well.  Mullen has done better than any other coach at MSU - he has limited resources but seems to be able to do more with less.  

I honest to God don't know what Auburn needs at the moment.  Gus has a gigantic opportunity to ease the anxiety of his fan base and buy himself another year or two with a decent showing in the next 3 weeks.  Saturday is where the rubber meets the road - get that Bus on track and rolling towards a championship!

 

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18 minutes ago, AU64 said:

That's a good point but to be honest, some coaches end up playing ranked teams when they don't have near the resources to be competitive....or are just in a tough league.   Especially coaches from the lower rated conferences who play ranked teams as their homecoming turkey. 

Some folks here like Mullen for example.... but he has one of the worst records against ranked teams among Power 5 coaches.  On the other hand, who wants to play bama, Lsu and Auburn who are ranked just about every year....and then pick up games with Ole Miss or TAMU and at least one SEC East powerhouse?  . So how does one rank DM?   hard to say ?  

Fuentes has probably made the best of a difficult situation though he inherited a pretty strong program and did not suffer much rebuilding.

What / who bothers me are guys like Frost, Brohm  (sp?)  and others who have almost no big time experience or success. 

A voice of reason. Refreshing.

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1 hour ago, AU64 said:

As for the nepotism thing...what is more nepotism than UGa hiring a guy who used to play there....because he used to play there.    Not sure what your definition of nepotism is but in fact, AU has mostly hired not-AU people.  Some have had a year or two here previously but coaches move all over the place and come and go regularly but in the case of Gus or Chiz....they had done well at AU and knew the recruiting landscape......so hard for me to see why that all of a sudden is a negative....and that might want a person with similar or lesser accomplishments who would need a GPS to find Auburn University. 

PS....and funny that someone used Maryland as an example...fired their 9 win coach because he was a horses patooty....and now are on their third coach in 6 years and have yet to win more than 7 games. 

Smart was the top coordinator in the nation at the tie of his hire.   Thats why Jacobs made it public that he interviewed Smart.  So that it would look like Gus was more qualified.  Same thing when Muschamp was hired by Florida.  He was the top coordinator in college football at the time.  Let me stress that Jacobs nepotisim was with th football program.  I don't have knowledge with Auburns other sports.  Also  Chizik was 5-19 on a 10 game losing streak but you find it hard to see the negative? The  guy does not know how to run a program. 

As far as Maryland as my example.  I know someone close to Freidgen, and that is their assessment, and their assessment of Auburn.  You are stating your opinion.  I am flat out telling you what an SEC assistant knows of the current landscape. 

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