WDE_OxPx_2010

Looking ahead to 2018 RBs

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4 minutes ago, AU64 said:

I can accept how you feel....I'm not looking for a bet...I'm  looking for someone who actually knows what goes on and if that's how he does things, why haven't his offensive coaches moved on? .  

Oh you looking for that on this board? Because somebody you can't check any background on will say it? You can pretty much look and see it's the same pattern...the same fake handoff on a sweep then throw deep?? Same play, same pattern. But ok

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1 minute ago, leglessdan said:

It's funny you say that. Has Gus retained an Offensive staff since being on the plains? Seems there's always a shuffle. DC left for similar reasons to what NorthGa was referring to. Then Rhett made a lateral move. There may be some merit to that statement.

DC ......not a loss IMO.....but otherwise,  Gus was pretty much forced into pushing Rhett out....which has worked pretty well for him I think....did a pretty good job with a team of 2* players at UConn.    AU staff turnover has not been compared to most schools where coaches seem to a very nomadic lot. 

 

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3 minutes ago, AU64 said:

DC ......not a loss IMO.....but otherwise,  Gus was pretty much forced into pushing Rhett out....which has worked pretty well for him I think....did a pretty good job with a team of 2* players at UConn.    AU staff turnover has not been compared to most schools where coaches seem to a very nomadic lot. 

 

But do you actually know the goings on? You know Gus was pretty much forced out? You know Rhett ran that offense at uconn by himself?

 

Nevermind this, it's been a while I actually forgot what this is about. You weren't talking to me anyway. My bad

Edited by cole256

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21 minutes ago, AU64 said:

Sorry NorthGa but I don't understand how control freak or not, Gus is making all of these individual personnel decisions?   Makes no sense and there is not enough time in the day for him to do that.    

Are we back the argument that Chip makes the good calls and Gus makes the bad calls?    

And if he truly is a paranoid control freak, why do his coaches even hang around....it's not for the money 'cause they could likely make similar money elsewhere.    Can't help but believe that someone other than Gus is watching the players work out and deciding who makes the team the best.  

Maybe I missed the news, but while people here were ragging Gus about KJ's health, I watched Stanford's top RB limping around the field all night on a bad ankle and yet he got the ball twice near the goal line at a crucial moment in the game.....and got stoned and nobody questioned that coach...even for a decision that eventually cost them the conference championship. 

Coaches make decisions...some work out and some don't .  . JMO

It is a well known fact that Muschamp, T-Rob, and Lance Thompson could not get away from him fast enough.  It wasn't just the chance to coach at USCe.  Why is Kodi Burns our WR coach instead of a proven commodity at that position?  Chip Lindsey I promise you can't get out of here fast enough.  All he has been able to do is call Gus' plays.  He is as much Auburn's OC as I am their DC.  Which brings me to Kevin Steele.  Why is Kevin Steele here?  Quite simply for the retirement being vested in the state.  Garner is here because Jay told Gus he was coming and Garner was man enough to hate seeing what was happening to his school he has so much pride for.  How many secondary coaches has Gus lost?

 

Horton has been trying to get out for at least two years.  Nobody wants to work under Gus.  Hell, Del McGee would probably come back home to coach RBs one day but not under Gus.  That was a great hire by Kirby.   

Edited by NorthGATiger

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8 minutes ago, cole256 said:

Yeah it's nothing but it's just so happens that professionals monitor carries and minutes played in football

We are not the professional league. We don’t have million dollar investments to protect. We watched Mason get stronger in the fourth and continued feeding him the rock. 

10 minutes ago, cole256 said:

if kj hadn't had all those carries he would've been in the same health regardless

In other words, he would still be injury prone even without the carries. Like I said, bitching about his pitch count is much to do about nothing.

13 minutes ago, cole256 said:

Like I said many people agree with me

Cookie? I’m not here to argue with you, but don’t say I said something and not show me. 

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1 hour ago, Barnacle said:

I give you guys a lot of credit for seeing things in him that I (and many others) didn't see in 2016. In addition to his body, I had concerns over his running style. I lauded him as a change of pace/3rd down back only. I was dead wrong. Dead wrong. However, in addition to the talent that I didn't see, Kerryon did some somethings in the off-season that I could see. He worked his tail off in the gym, and it was clear as early as the spring game that he had added several pounds of solid muscle to his frame. He's been a stronger, more solid back this season. The rosters that I can find have him listed at 204 pounds in 2016 and 212 in 2017. I think this is a point that is sometimes conveniently skimmed over. I'm not trying to say I was right about his size, but I don't think I was patently wrong, either.

Whether he was the better back in 2016 is still entirely debatable. Your points were definitely proven this year - he is so much better than I gave him credit for, but "he was the best back last year" isn't something I think you can hang your hats on. Kamryn Pettway was a monster last season. I'm not trying to argue this point. I'm just acknowledging that it is very clearly debatable. 

That being said, other backs definitely deserved more carries this season. Cole you make a good point. Its hard to say who is quality and who is not when they aren't getting enough carries to show what they have. 

That last part is the only important part.

As for which back is better, certainly not interested in that debate, either. That was in response to someone who misinterpreted our comments as devaluing KJ. He was absolutely critical and needed to be our Bell cow. It's just that we needed to and could have done more to prepare the other guys. For the second season in a row.

Oh, also, someone mentioned LSU. We lost that game specifically because we kept feeding KJ directly into the meat grinder of LSU's front 7. In hindsight, that was stupid on a lot of levels.

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2 minutes ago, div3 said:

hmmmm,,, did we just locate Au-some-11 from that other board? seems like a match! 

Who?

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3 minutes ago, aujeff11 said:

We are not the professional league. We don’t have million dollar investments to protect. We watched Mason get stronger in the fourth and continued feeding him the rock. 

In other words, he would still be injury prone even without the carries. Like I said, bitching about his pitch count is much to do about nothing.

Cookie? I’m not here to argue with you, but don’t say I said something and not show me. 

So I see your genius can't really understand so once again just don't talk to me because I don't agree with you and you have nothing to stand on besides the stupidity of kj is more injury prone than you and the fact that you don't play football has nothing to do with it. 

And I can't help if you can't keep up with the bull you day and you don't remember. I do. But you're no boss, like I said you can look it up yourself. But since you're acting so stupid about this now I can see why you said what you said.

And having money invested means nothing if a team knows that's this is the year the window is open to win a title they don't kill their players before the important games, it doesn't matter what year a guy is in on his contract.

We watched mason get the rock with Marshall and in the beginning of the year we watched more Marshall and more cap so at the end of the year yeah he was in good shape to take a big load the last couple of games....That's why we all knew cap was going to be good...and that's why he was able to pick up right where Tre left...because he got game reps

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3 minutes ago, cole256 said:

So I see your genius can't really understand so once again just don't talk to me

That’s fine with me man. Have a good day.

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27 minutes ago, cole256 said:

Well it seems to me you're just going off weight as to deciding if a guy is a every down back. I don't do that. I know that every guy is going to get stronger each year in college. I watched kj play in high school. I watched some film on KP. You can tell by the way they run and their vision kj was the better back, that's how I came to my decision. Not to mention the hands it's easy to see he's the most complete back. It wasn't hard to tell imo

If that's what I've communicated, then I've done a poor job of explaining myself. Of course you can't judge a back solely upon his weight. 

My past skepticism was never based upon weight/size alone. I thought he was a long-strider that would hit the hole too fast. I didn't think he had quick enough feet in-between the tackles. I considered other factors besides weight, I was just wrong about those factors. I didn't see the kind of vision and patience that you and others may have. I've admitted as much many times over. And, I love being wrong about those things. Kerryon is a spectacular back to behold, and I wish I had recognized it sooner. 

However, my concerns over his body and strength - which I admit may have been overstated, or at least exacerbated by my other conceptions - weren't necessarily wrong. Kerryon brought some attributes into the season that he didn't have last year. These are attributes that neither you, nor McLoofus or anyone else could have seen because they just plain didn't exist. That's the added muscle, weight and strength. Now, you may have foreseen them - you said that you know players are going to get stronger each year in college. I'm sure you did expect KJ to get bigger and stronger.

My point is that I never presupposed that he couldn't or wouldn't get bigger or stronger. I said things like "I'd like him to add some muscle/weight." He did. I complimented him on it during the spring game to McLoofus, but it took me until the season began to recognize his other attributes that I was blind to.

I just think its interesting to hear you and McLoofus - two posters who I really like - scoff at posters who had concerns over his size last season, without acknowledging the fact that KJ is a bigger, stronger, heavier back in 2017 than he was in 2016. 

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46 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

That last part is the only important part.

As for which back is better, certainly not interested in that debate, either. That was in response to someone who misinterpreted our comments as devaluing KJ. He was absolutely critical and needed to be our Bell cow. It's just that we needed to and could have done more to prepare the other guys. For the second season in a row.

Oh, also, someone mentioned LSU. We lost that game specifically because we kept feeding KJ directly into the meat grinder of LSU's front 7. In hindsight, that was stupid on a lot of levels.

That last part is the only important part moving forward. I agree.

However, as I explained a little more thoroughly to Cole above, it does bother me that you've continued to criticize posters like me who expressed concerns (even overstated ones) about his size, without acknowledging that Kerryon Johnson in 2017 is 8 pounds of pure muscle heavier, and evidently stronger than previous years. 

I'm not asking you to tell me I was right about his size. I don't think I was right. But, I think we can both recognize that what he did gain in strength and size certainly contributed to his incredible success this season. That's all. 

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5 hours ago, cole256 said:

Also I think it's worth mentioning that if we're using a more traditional style qb then that means even more focus on the hb's and they don't have the luxury of the qb taking the load of carries and also the type of hits the hb is going to take are different. Instead of the confusing the big 270 d line and make him hesitate that guy is now keyed in on the hb. So it's not the ankle tackling corner as much. So that tells me our bench should be used even more than they were during read option days. 

This 100x over. Gus riding his backs all game was made possible by the fact that Nick and Cam ran the ball so frequently.

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26 minutes ago, Barnacle said:

If that's what I've communicated, then I've done a poor job of explaining myself. Of course you can't judge a back solely upon his weight. 

My past skepticism was never based upon weight/size alone. I thought he was a long-strider that would hit the hole too fast. I didn't think he had quick enough feet in-between the tackles. I considered other factors besides weight, I was just wrong about those factors. I didn't see the kind of vision and patience that you and others may have. I've admitted as much many times over. And, I love being wrong about those things. Kerryon is a spectacular back to behold, and I wish I had recognized it sooner. 

However, my concerns over his body and strength - which I admit may have been overstated, or at least exacerbated by my other conceptions - weren't necessarily wrong. Kerryon brought some attributes into the season that he didn't have last year. These are attributes that neither you, nor McLoofus or anyone else could have seen because they just plain didn't exist. That's the added muscle, weight and strength. Now, you may have foreseen them - you said that you know players are going to get stronger each year in college. I'm sure you did expect KJ to get bigger and stronger.

My point is that I never presupposed that he couldn't or wouldn't get bigger or stronger. I said things like "I'd like him to add some muscle/weight." He did. I complimented him on it during the spring game to McLoofus, but it took me until the season began to recognize his other attributes that I was blind to.

I just think its interesting to hear you and McLoofus - two posters who I really like - scoff at posters who had concerns over his size last season, without acknowledging the fact that KJ is a bigger, stronger, heavier back in 2017 than he was in 2016. 

I understand a little better through this post, but I must say I didn't scoff at anyone. I just said kj was our best back even while he was hurt and kp was tearing it up....if anybody was scoffed at it was me. Like I said to me it was easy to see the only thing kp did better was run through people. 

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1 minute ago, cole256 said:

I understand a little better through this post, but I must say I didn't scoff at anyone. I just said kj was our best back even while he was hurt and kp was tearing it up....if anybody was scoffed at it was me. Like I said to me it was easy to see the only thing kp did better was run through people. 

No, you didn't scoff. You're right. Maybe that was Loof. Probably not the right word anyway. I know none of it was directed at me personally. 

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1 hour ago, Barnacle said:

That last part is the only important part moving forward. I agree.

However, as I explained a little more thoroughly to Cole above, it does bother me that you've continued to criticize posters like me who expressed concerns (even overstated ones) about his size, without acknowledging that Kerryon Johnson in 2017 is 8 pounds of pure muscle heavier, and evidently stronger than previous years. 

I'm not asking you to tell me I was right about his size. I don't think I was right. But, I think we can both recognize that what he did gain in strength and size certainly contributed to his incredible success this season. That's all. 

My comments in this thread weren't intended that way at all, but I don't get the benefit of the doubt based on previous posts in other threads, I know. So I apologize. 

A stronger, more explosive Kerryon is absolutely better. And the additional mass very well could have helped sustain him a little longer. Very possible. Also, emulating Leveon Bell- part of which, Kerryon explained, was taking it upon himself to increase strength and explosiveness in his lower body- made him much better. My point was never that he couldn't be more effective at a higher weight. In fact, I have to talk people down all the time because it's a very popular opinion that more weight means less speed.

The issue with everyone assuming that KP was so clearly superior to KJ was that they failed to take into account just how many things about the offense changed right before KJ went down. That's a different conversation. Again, I was just responding to a notion that was expressed that maybe those of us who would've liked to have seen more carries for the other guys were saying so because we underestimated KJ's importance. You are obviously not the person who suggested that and you obviously need no reminder about my man love for 21.

Again... for petty comments in other threads... apologies. I've been arguing with *actual* size queens on this forum since the summer of 2013 and I've let it get the best of me this season. 

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21 hours ago, WDE_OxPx_2010 said:

I know there is still a bowl game left, but the bowl game is window dressing and extra practice. The meaningful games are over.

Asa Martin comes in and adds prototypical running back depth to a group that needs it. The SEC championship game looks quite different if KP and KJ are healthy. Our offense was much better when it had the ability to produce a reliable 5-6 yards per carry. Adding Ass Martin and Worm to a group that includes KJ, KP, Martin, Barrett, and Miller gets us back to having the type of SEC depth that we'll need to compete. Arguably, we haven't had this kind of RB depth since 2013. 

 

To go along with the RBs, we have young, quality returning WRs and (with Gatewood) 3 capable QBs on the roster for the first time in a while. If the O Line gets figured out and stabilizes, the offense will look good again.

War Eagle.

Do you think as Gus continues to morph into a real head coach he'll begin to use more of his backs?  I'm not sure we need that many.  Gus seems to ride one of them into the ground every season.  I would think spreading the wealth would help more with depth than having them sit on the shelf unused.

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Tre Mason’s last 11 games:

26 LSU, when Tre seperated from the pack

21

6 Western Carolina, early blowout 

27 

10- Florida Atlantic, early blowout.

32

20

27

29

46

34

Tre averaged 22 per game, Kerryon 23 per game played- the only difference in stats being that it took Tre bout three games to separate from the pack, and he got breathers against Western Carolina and Florida Atlantic. 

Again, nobody wants Kerryon running so much against Louisiana Monroe, but the game wasn’t in hand and our offense was trying to find a rhythm. 

Edited by aujeff11

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We seem to have a lot of running back injuries every year. Is it Gus riding a horse til it can’t go any more or is there a problem with our strength and conditioning program?

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If KJ is good to go and being productive, by all means run him. At some point though,  especially in the blowouts we played in, the other guys have to get reps to build QUALITY depth. Have to. In the process, spelling KJ some to save on wear and tear. It's more about depth for me than it is durability,  but it kills 2 birds with one stone IMO.  If KJ declares, where will we be? Nobody knows, none of us know who the next man up is because we don't have one. 

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22 hours ago, Farmer Brown said:

How many of them would actually play? We should have developed the backs we had. Miller wasn't in till the last few plays. Gus rides a horse to death. JMO

Can't argue with that. That is something he needs to work on.

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