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Draft Eligible Players/Depth Chart 2018


tbone1430

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4 hours ago, aujeff11 said:

I think the outrage over KJ’s reps was well overblown. A lot of teams across the country still use feature backs. We fell in love with backs that had comparable numbers here at Auburn in the past. There are still backs in the pros that get 25 touches a game (Elliot, Gurley, etc ) and you don’t see the coaches trying to pull them within drives just to minimize the risk of injury. Seems to me that the injury prone will remain injury prone and the durable will remain durable and we should just leave it at that. I’ve noticed that most NFL teams that are RB by committee usually have slightly less talented or have backs with more narrow roles than your feature backs as well. The Patriots are RB by committee but Dion Lewis is their closest thing to an all purpose RB. 

If there is this more reps= more injury prone mindset, might as well not pay or play them at all. 

Good post.  A lot of people who just wanted to argue also conveniently chose to forget the fact that KJ only averaged 2 more carries per game than Auburn’s running backs dating to 2010.

Also, it isn’t Gus’ decision on which player is in the game for a certain play.  That is the offensive coordinator and specialty coach’s decision.  In this case, Lindsey and Horton.

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22 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

Good post.  A lot of people who just wanted to argue also conveniently chose to forget the fact that KJ only averaged 2 more carries per game than Auburn’s running backs dating to 2010.

Tsk, tsk. Two years in a row we lose a crucial late-season game due largely in part either to not having or not using capable backup RBs, and you're saying that people who question our management of the position "just wanted to argue"? As for your stat, there's only been one season going back to 2010 that Gus wasn't in charge of the offense and that was a season where it would be hard for a lot of folks to come up with the name of the #2 back. The "because that's just how Gus does it" thing isn't really a valid argument. He can and should do better.

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Also, it isn’t Gus’ decision on which player is in the game for a certain play.  That is the offensive coordinator and specialty coach’s decision.  In this case, Lindsey and Horton.

It is absolutely in Gus's job description to dictate our various philosophies, one of which you would think would be something along the lines of "Let's try to have healthy, viable players at every position for the entire season." If he can tell Chip to shut the offense down for over a half of football and give the game away, then he can tell Chip to give the backup running backs more live reps.

Gus criticizers don't "just want to argue" any more than Gus apologists. That's another sentiment that has gained popularity lately but really needs to go away. 

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21 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Tsk, tsk. Two years in a row we lose a crucial late-season game due largely in part either to not having or not using capable backup RBs, and you're saying that people who question our management of the position "just wanted to argue"? As for your stat, there's only been one season going back to 2010 that Gus wasn't in charge of the offense and that was a season where it would be hard for a lot of folks to come up with the name of the #2 back. The "because that's just how Gus does it" thing isn't really a valid argument. He can and should do better.

You are completely missing the point.  The point was that Auburn has always had a feature back.  This is nothing different.

24 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

It is absolutely in Gus's job description to dictate our various philosophies, one of which you would think would be something along the lines of "Let's try to have healthy, viable players at every position for the entire season." If he can tell Chip to shut the offense down for over a half of football and give the game away, then he can tell Chip to give the backup running backs more live reps.

Gus criticizers don't "just want to argue" any more than Gus apologists. That's another sentiment that has gained popularity lately but really needs to go away. 

It absolutely is not in Gus’ job description that he determines on every single play which player is out there on both sides of the ball.  You also can’t determine who remains healthy in the season.  Things happen.  Our top two backs were injured two years in a row.  There are so many reps you can run in a practice, and no team splits them with all 5 running backs.  That is not smart.  Lindsey/Horton did what they should have done in who they gave reps to.  Gus is not going to tell Chip to bring in a RB if there is a reason on why they are not in there.  Those are reasons I don’t know, and you don’t know.  We have good indications, like pass blocking skills.  But in reality we really don’t know.

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26 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

You are completely missing the point.  The point was that Auburn has always had a feature back.  This is nothing different.

Just going on the info you provided. And your point seemed to only extend back to 2010. 

As for always having a feature back, of course we have. So has just about everyone else. But some other teams seem not to have been left without a feature back late in the season two years running. And almost no other team in the SEC had a running back with as many carries as KJ- exactly 1 team did- and especially not after their lead guy had missed 2 entire games.

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It absolutely is not in Gus’ job description that he determines on every single play which player is out there on both sides of the ball.  

Well, if we're just going to ignore what the other one said, then I'll gladly make this my last post on the matter.

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Lindsey/Horton did what they should have done in who they gave reps to.  Gus is not going to tell Chip to bring in a RB if there is a reason on why they are not in there.  Those are reasons I don’t know, and you don’t know.  

A lot to unpack with this one. First of all, your last sentence heavily contradicts the first. The first sentence contradicts logic when Pettway went down in September and we were still incapable of running the ball without KJ in late November. The middle sentence is technically accurate- it does indeed stand to reason that Gus wouldn't make a coaching decision for absolutely no reason, no matter how highly and obviously flawed his reasoning has been multiple times over the last couple seasons*- but I really don't understand how our head coach gets a pass on dictating a run-first, run-second and sometimes run-third offensive philosophy without being prepared for injuries at the running back position. Like, seriously. How do you reconcile that? How do we not have a 3rd guy when running the football has been the primary function of Gus Malzahn's brain for almost 10 years now?? We call ourselves Running Back U, for chrissakes. 

It could be a recruiting problem, but there's nothing you can do about that once the season starts. Of course, it wouldn't be the first time that Gus made his bed and then tried not to lie in it. One need only look back as far as last year to see other examples of that. 

We failed to properly manage the running back position this season. 

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@McLoofus, to keep the posts shorter I will just quote you.  Getting super long.

The stat only went back to 2010, although I was incorrect, it was back to 2009 to illustrate the tenure of Gus at Auburn.  Many teams are exclusive with one running back.  Alabama has been notorious of it with the exception this year.   So if you criticize Gus, you also have to go after Saban.

My statement did not contradict itself at all.  We cannot know what is being done in practice behind closed doors, but still know the coaches are doing the right thing.  On tape, there have been consistencies that Kam Martin has work to do on pass blocking, some he may not overcome due to his size (don’t get me wrong I love the guy.  Reminds me of Peyton Barber in the grit he runs with).  All I am saying is I trust in Horton and Lindsey in their reasoning of not throwing this guys in more.  Horton has proven he puts the right guys in.  In 2016 he did a phenomenal job in getting an H-Back in Pettway ready for a RB position.  And he is recruiting every well.  Next year we will have three new editions we should all be very excited for.

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3 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

@McLoofus, to keep the posts shorter I will just quote you.  Getting super long.

The stat only went back to 2010, although I was incorrect, it was back to 2009 to illustrate the tenure of Gus at Auburn.  Many teams are exclusive with one running back.  Alabama has been notorious of it with the exception this year.   So if you criticize Gus, you also have to go after Saban.

My statement did not contradict itself at all.  We cannot know what is being done in practice behind closed doors, but still know the coaches are doing the right thing.  On tape, there have been consistencies that Kam Martin has work to do on pass blocking, some he may not overcome due to his size (don’t get me wrong I love the guy.  Reminds me of Peyton Barber in the grit he runs with).  All I am saying is I trust in Horton and Lindsey in their reasoning of not throwing this guys in more.  Horton has proven he puts the right guys in.  In 2016 he did a phenomenal job in getting an H-Back in Pettway ready for a RB position.  And he is recruiting every well.  Next year we will have three new editions we should all be very excited for.

I don't see it how you see it regarding Pettway. Why was Pettway at H-Back if he had a future SEC leader in rushing yards per game in him? Why have him at h-back to be stuck in a timeshare with Chandler Cox if they're "doing the right thing" behind closed doors and in practice? That is one hell of a screw up if you ask me. If there are no injuries, transfers, or dismissals Pettway probably has 15 carries for his entire career at this point. And our staff had no idea they had a beast at RB sitting right under their noses. Not to mention our OL was forced into putting our best OL lineup on the field because of injury. Not because our coaches can evaluate what the hell they have on the roster efficiently.

 

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3 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

Alabama has been notorious of it with the exception this year.   So if you criticize Gus, you also have to go after Saban.

Nope. Do you really think that bama would have had to stop running the ball in any given year if their #1 and #2 guys went down? Do you think they would have been unprepared for RB1 and RB2 going down two years in a row? We're not Kentucky. We're not Mississippi State. We should have gotten a 3rd guy ready. Pettway went down (again) on September 16th. It's not like we got caught with our pants down with a freak rash of injuries in late October. 

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We cannot know what is being done in practice behind closed doors, but still know the coaches are doing the right thing.

As I've stated elsewhere, I truly envy this quality that you share with a very few others.

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All I am saying is I trust in Horton and Lindsey in their reasoning of not throwing this guys in more.  

If that actually was all you were saying, then I wouldn't have a problem with it.

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 In 2016 he did a phenomenal job in getting an H-Back in Pettway ready for a RB position.  

Sure did. Gus and Rhett get credit for that, too.

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And he is recruiting every well. 

Well, if he made the 100% absolutely correct decision not to go to RB3 after RBs 1 and 2 went down for the 2nd consecutive season, then I'm having a lot of trouble with this one.

(Not to mention that it's questionable 1) how instrumental he's been to landing our RB commits the last couple years and 2) why a run-first offense that's guaranteed to get RB1 1,000 yards and an NFL contract is incapable of landing 5* RBs.)

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8 minutes ago, Tiger said:

I don't see it how you see it regarding Pettway. Why was Pettway at H-Back if he had a future SEC leader in rushing yards per game in him? Why have him at h-back to be stuck in a timeshare with Chandler Cox if they're "doing the right thing" behind closed doors and in practice? That is one hell of a screw up if you ask me. If there are no injuries, transfers, or dismissals Pettway probably has 15 carries for his entire career at this point. And our staff had no idea they had a beast at RB sitting right under their noses. Not to mention our OL was forced into putting our best OL lineup on the field because of injury. Not because our coaches can evaluate what the hell they have on the roster efficiently.

 

That happens all the time.  Players fly under the radar and you don’t know what you have until game time.  How many 2-3 star players have you seen us get that turn out to be studs?  Most of those players other programs would not touch.  Not just this sport but every sport.  In basketball a good example is Russell Westbrook.  In high school he could not even dunk until his senior year.  He almost did not get a scholarship offer from any school.  And look at him now.    

It works in reverse too.  You can have players practice really well, and fold during the game.  Unfortunately a good example is Jeremy Johnson.  

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3 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

That happens all the time.  Players fly under the radar and you don’t know what you have until game time.  How many 2-3 star players have you seen us get that turn out to be studs?  Most of those players other programs would not touch.  Not just this sport but every sport.  In basketball a good example is Russell Westbrook.  In high school he could not even dunk until his senior year.  He almost did not get a scholarship offer from any school.  And look at him now.    

It works in reverse too.  You can have players practice really well, and fold during the game.  Unfortunately a good example is Jeremy Johnson.  

That is not the same IMO. Guys develop at different rates, sure. You are correct on this point. If we took Malik Willis as a 3* and he becomes an All-SEC player your example works. However, the problem here is without off-schedule circumstances Kam Pettway would just be a limited to being a lead blocker for his career. Meaning he would not even have had a chance to develop into a stud RB because the coaches didn't even know how good he was at RB. This is more like a coach doesn't know what he has on his hands until they are in a game -- and even then it takes him ~4 weeks to understand.

This isn't Heath Evans or Tre Smith having to save our butts in a pinch. This was pure mismanagement by the coaching staff. If Jovon doesn't get kicked out, if Roc doesn't get hurt so often and doesn't look to transfer out there's a great chance Pettway is backing up Chandler Cox right now -- unless he himself would've transferred out.

 

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18 minutes ago, Tiger said:

This isn't Heath Evans or Tre Smith having to save our butts in a pinch. This was pure mismanagement by the coaching staff. If Jovon doesn't get kicked out, if Roc doesn't get hurt so often and doesn't look to transfer out there's a great chance Pettway is backing up Chandler Cox right now -- unless he himself would've transferred out.

 

I still would not call it mismanagement.  The guys ahead of him we a future NFL player for the Buccaneers and the other would have been if he had his head on straight.  And the two years before that were two guys that also went on to the NFL.  This just happens.  There are other cases that we will never know because they did not switch positions.

I mean if Gatewood is the next Cam Newton like some say, this could have happened to him.  A lot of teams want him as a tight end.  So it could have been a what if.

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1 hour ago, Tiger said:

That is not the same IMO. Guys develop at different rates, sure. You are correct on this point. If we took Malik Willis as a 3* and he becomes an All-SEC player your example works. However, the problem here is without off-schedule circumstances Kam Pettway would just be a limited to being a lead blocker for his career. Meaning he would not even have had a chance to develop into a stud RB because the coaches didn't even know how good he was at RB. This is more like a coach doesn't know what he has on his hands until they are in a game -- and even then it takes him ~4 weeks to understand.

This isn't Heath Evans or Tre Smith having to save our butts in a pinch. This was pure mismanagement by the coaching staff. If Jovon doesn't get kicked out, if Roc doesn't get hurt so often and doesn't look to transfer out there's a great chance Pettway is backing up Chandler Cox right now -- unless he himself would've transferred out.

 

If Jovon doesn’t get kicked out and if Roc didn’t get injured, you would have still loved our running game with those two and Kerryon. KP was a nice bruiser but I never saw enough to say he should replace the other 4.

As far as Gus mismanaging things, KJ left the SECCG with the most rushing yards in the SEC. So our RBs are still getting the job done. 

-Tiger, just a couple of questions:

-Do you believe our secondary backs got enough garbage time after our blowout wins?

-Are you comfortable with putting backs with known deficiencies into close games? Keep in mind, if we know about the deficiencies, DC’s would love to exploit them. 

-Is there a better way to handle the roster that Gus had last year after KP started off suspended? How would you handle that roster, if so?

 

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Roc wasn't ever going to line up behind the quarterback for Gus Malzahn again. That's why he left. 

Damned shame about the Robinson thing. His floor was 2009 Ben Tate. 

I mostly don't blame Gus for the RB situation in 2016, even though I think he could've used Truitt more against UGA. What I blame him for is evidently learning nothing from it. 

As for backs with known deficiencies, it sure seems that KJ had a rather well known deficiency dangling from his shoulder and UGA exploited the hell out of it. 

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2 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

As for backs with known deficiencies, it sure seems that KJ had a rather well known deficiency dangling from his shoulder and UGA exploited the hell out of it. 

Gus has played some of our skilled players with known deficiencies for awhile now.  Even though they “could do no further damage” to their particular injury, how effective where they to the team?

Watching KJ in the SECCG was hard to do, especially after their DC exploited his known deficiency by laying the wood to KJ when he ran the ball.  Too bad we didn’t develop a suitable back-up during the season.  Oh well, maybe next year. 

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14 minutes ago, aujeff11 said:

If Jovon doesn’t get kicked out and if Roc didn’t get injured, you would have still loved our running game with those two and Kerryon. KP was a nice bruiser but I never saw enough to say he should replace the other 4.

Fair enough. I did not mean to insinuate he should have been starting in front of the entire RB depth chart going into the season. However, I don't think there is any excuse for the coaches to have literally no idea what he could do as running back out of the gate last year. He didn't get a single carry vs Clemson last season and we can't blame pass protection on this one.

15 minutes ago, aujeff11 said:

As far as Gus mismanaging things, KJ left the SECCG with the most rushing yards in the SEC. So our RBs are still getting the job done. 

For sure. No qualms about the effectiveness of our run game. I just wish Kam Martin, Dev Barrett, or Malik Miller had been given more opportunities to spell KJ. All I'm asking for here is a Kenny Irons/Brad Lester type of split. Lester would come in while the game was in the balance (he also had his size/pass protection struggles) and would make the D defend a different skillset carrying the ball. It also gave KI a breather. I am a big KJ fan and I think he's better than KP. Bur my posts have been more pointed towards why our staff couldn't identify how good KP actually was. They were willing to let him be a blocker but he was good enough to lead the SEC in rushing ypg himself.

19 minutes ago, aujeff11 said:

-Do you believe our secondary backs got enough garbage time after our blowout wins?

I do not. I will also put an asterisk on this one. I don't think our 1 or 1A should've played at all vs Mercer. Forget the fact KP got a crazy amount of carries that game but IMO he shouldn't have played at all. I understand the game was in the balance, but IMO we should be good enough to roll out a 3rd or 4th string RB with the rest of our starters for a game like that.

23 minutes ago, aujeff11 said:

-Are you comfortable with putting backs with known deficiencies into close games? Keep in mind, if we know about the deficiencies, DC’s would love to exploit them.

You are right. But I would more than we did. I understand the deficiencies but most programs have a dropoff between starter and 2nd string and I see schools rotating backs all the time. As I said earlier, I'm just looking for a Kenny Irons/Brad Lester type of sharing the load. It doesn't need to be an even split, just like 80/20 or 75/25 split would've been fine by me while also giving our future backfield some good experience. We brought in Dev Barrett to run a swing pass every time, so I don't think Gus cares that much about telegraphing (or not telegraphing) plays because, keeping in line with what you said, if we know what's coming DC's will also.

25 minutes ago, aujeff11 said:

Is there a better way to handle the roster that Gus had last year after KP started off suspended? How would you handle that roster, if so?

Was KP suspended last season to start the year? I thought he was just down the depth chart. He played 1 snap vs Clemson but got no carries. If you are meaning this year, I would've liked to see more RBs used to get carries in his place while starting off injured and suspended. Kam Martin's stats for the year look good but they are unfortunately misleading. I'd say only about 15% of his rushing yards came while the game was in the balance, even though he ran with some pop and almost always went for a nice quick run when he first entered the game.

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One other quick thing about KJ having the most yards in the SEC: he was also 15th in ypc among rushers that had at least 100 attempts. 

You run a guy way more than everyone else, he'll probably get more yards than everyone else. 

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18 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

I mostly don't blame Gus for the RB situation in 2016, even though I think he could've used Truitt more against UGA. What I blame him for is evidently learning nothing from it. 

Truitt actually got injured during the first drive in the 2016 UGA game.  In that game literally every running back was injured.  I have never seen that before and hope to never see it again.  

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1 minute ago, McLoofus said:

One other quick thing about KJ having the most yards in the SEC: he was also 15th in ypc among rushers that had at least 100 attempts. 

He hasn’t ever been much of a home run threat. It happens. 

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6 minutes ago, aujeff11 said:

He hasn’t ever been much of a home run threat. It happens. 

Our offense doesn't produce homerun threats except for jet sweep guys. What it does produce is one guy a year who gets a bunch of yards because we run the ball a ton and only lean on one guy. It does not mean that we are making the most effective use of our running back corps.

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We need to get back on track on the thread here.  I am speaking to myself too as I aided in effort of getting everything off the rails.  

I am happy that Russell is returning, and I hope it motivates others to stay since they see he is staying.  

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9 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Our offense doesn't produce homerun threats except for jet sweep guys.

I disagree. KJ has had plenty of chances to take em to the house. He is more elusive than straight line fast. And that’s not a knock against him.

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3 hours ago, aujeff11 said:

I disagree. KJ has had plenty of chances to take em to the house. He is more elusive than straight line fast. And that’s not a knock against him.

We don't really have a home run threat in our backfield.....Stove might be close to it....but other backs, including KMart get loose in the open from time to time and get rundown from behind if the goal line is more than 30 or 40 yards away.  

No "kiss him goodbye" type running backs.   That's just the way it it.....and of course that cuts down on the YPC for our guys too.   None of those nice 75 yards runs to build up the yardage and averages.  Bryce Love of Stanford has more than a dozen TDs this year over 50 yards and six of them over 60 yards.  KJ on the other hand only 2 TDs over 50 yards this year.

Still hoping we get a real burner at RB sometime soon. 

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On 12/26/2017 at 8:32 PM, AU64 said:

We don't really have a home run threat in our backfield.....Stove might be close to it....but other backs, including KMart get loose in the open from time to time and get rundown from behind if the goal line is more than 30 or 40 yards away.  

No "kiss him goodbye" type running backs.   That's just the way it it.....and of course that cuts down on the YPC for our guys too.   None of those nice 75 yards runs to build up the yardage and averages.  Bryce Love of Stanford has more than a dozen TDs this year over 50 yards and six of them over 60 yards.  KJ on the other hand only 2 TDs over 50 yards this year.

Still hoping we get a real burner at RB sometime soon. 

I’m quite certain Devin Barrett is that guy. He certainly was in high school. I look forward to him getting more touches, because I believe he will take a few to the house. 

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