Are we headed in the right direction?

[OnthePlains 2,014]

I don’t think we are any direction, not headed up, not headed down, just stagnant. Pretty much where Auburn football has been most of my life. Auburn is a good program. Historically a top 15 or so program.  To me its not so much about whether Gus is or isn’t the guy, or whether we are trending up or down, its whether the powers that be ever want more for our program. Do they want a top 10 or top 5 program consistently or are they ok with average to good most years with the occasional great year?  Gus is right now better than baby bowden or chiz and arguably on par with what tubs did so far. He can continue to bring us these good seasons sprinkled with average seasons and go down as a decent coach in AU history.  But that will leave us where we mostly have always been, good but not great.  We’re talking about a program that hasn’t had back to back 10 win seasons in nearly 30 years and only ONCE in program history.  So sure, Gus is ok and he will continue to be ok and perhaps catch lightning one more time like 2013.  And it’s fairly obvious that a large group of Auburn people are perfectly fine with that. If more is wanted  out of our program than what we have mostly gotten in our history then major changes are needed and not just the coach. I don’t know how long it will last but Clemson has gone on a run that our program NEVER has.  Yeah they got lucky with Dabo being much better than anybody thought he would be but he has also changed the culture from being perennial underachievers to being bama’s biggest contender. Auburn either can’t seem to find the right coach or there is something systemic in our program that keeps us from achieving this.  Gus is ok. He’s not great. So, I guess he’s a perfect fit for a school that can’t seem to get out of its own way.

[corchjay 5,311]

The hardest thing to accept this year is that this year... on paper... should have been the year to hit the homerun.  We came close but in the end it was just a ground rule double.  We had an OL with talent and experience.  We had a fresh new OC and a new Qb that had enough time in spring and summer to get the playbook down.  Granted Game 2 he looked very rusty.  A very good defense playing better and getting more pressure on the QB then the year before.  Then LSU happened and we looked dead in the water but we came back to life and for 6 weeks looked like the best team in college football only to run out of gas after playing very emotional and physical games.   

Now the season is over.  Next year could be a good year but we have our 2 rivals on the road.  Will be tough.  The schedule lines up on the odd years...  So when do we have experience at OL, DL, and QB again with the better schedule?  2019?  probably not because Stidham will be leaving after next season unless Willis/Gatewood are ready for prime time.  Yet to be determined.  I know some have complained about UGA and bama being home/home and away/away but I actually like it.  

[McLoofus 35,182]

12 minutes ago, Barnacle said:

In general, I feel the same way. In general. I wish we were a little bit more consistent both in game planning and roster management. Last year's Clemson, Georgia, and this year's LSU and to a similar extent Clemson are the games that drive me nuts. Until we recruit at the level that Alabama does, we won't be able to do what they do.

That's what saban does that he doesn't get enough credit for and that has nothing to do with Mark Emmert. His teams never sh** the bed. If bama loses, it's because the other team played a great game. The talent gap is not so vast that he can win as much as he does by just sleepwalking through the schedule.

That might be where the fact that saban had a rather long and successful college coaching career before Gus had even taken his first college job comes into play. Would saban have done better with our roster in his 11th year coaching in college ball? Certainly interesting to ponder. You know, I just learned the other day that saban's famous "process" was birthed in 1998. His first head coaching job was at Toledo in 1989. He'd also been a DC in the NFL under Bill Belichick by then.

And hopefully that turns my post back towards the OP's question.

[Barnacle 9,064]

Is the biggest disappointment the O-line?

I think it might be...

[WarEagle1983 2,185]

We're stagnant and will remain that way until we get another coach. I'm preparing for the same old song for at least the next 2 years until we can trim down the money on Gus's contract to fire him. I don't try to be negative but the HIGHS and lows of Gus should be no surprise. As soon as many think Gus has turned a corner he reverts back to his old ways. It's been that way from the beginning and we're what 5 years into this and thinking he's going to miraculously change? It's not happening! 

We've wasted so much talent it's unreal. It pisses me off to no end when he's so non-chalant and comes with statements like: "the future is bright" "it's not the end of the world" No it doesn't take a coach who's an azz or unethical to win but i sure would like a coach that seems to give a darn. We've had enough in the area of recruiting to be a contending team. We just lost to a team that recruits 2 and 3 stars yet we need more 4 and 5 stars to lose a well-coached team like that again? Get all the 4 and 5 stars you want but you don't develop them it's worth nothing. Defense is doing that; the offense is not. THIS team WAS a championship team. I fully believe that. Give a coach like Scott Frost this team and we're in the playoffs. No doubt about it.

[corchjay 5,311]

1 minute ago, McLoofus said:

 The talent gap is not so vast that he can win as much as he does by just sleepwalking through the schedule.

The talent gap between bammer and the rest of the conference outside of AU, UGA, LSU is like the talent different between AU and Vandy.  And the talent difference between bammer and AU, UGA, and LSU is like the talent difference between AU and Arkansas.  

 

[Beaker 2,457]

Keeping this simple:

yes and the data does support that as pointed out.

"Do we maintain progress?"is a more pertinent question.

maybe.

These are the key questions I believe:  Super simple

Can Gus continue to evolve or will he think he is "there" with the new contract? 

Can Gus allow Chip to run the O from day one or will we start off dysfunctional as always in Aug-Sep?

Can we learn to use our RBs without driving them til the tires fall off like AUsince72 eloquently stated?

Can Coach Steele add some pressure here or there and tweak the D to keep our D in the top 10?

Can we eliminate the predictability of our O play calling?

[Tiger 8,817]

8 minutes ago, corchjay said:

The hardest thing to accept this year is that this year... on paper... should have been the year to hit the homerun.  We came close but in the end it was just a ground rule double.  We had an OL with talent and experience.  We had a fresh new OC and a new Qb that had enough time in spring and summer to get the playbook down.  Granted Game 2 he looked very rusty.  A very good defense playing better and getting more pressure on the QB then the year before.  Then LSU happened and we looked dead in the water but we came back to life and for 6 weeks looked like the best team in college football only to run out of gas after playing very emotional and physical games.   

Now the season is over.  Next year could be a good year but we have our 2 rivals on the road.  Will be tough.  The schedule lines up on the odd years...  So when do we have experience at OL, DL, and QB again with the better schedule?  2019?  probably not because Stidham will be leaving after next season unless Willis/Gatewood are ready for prime time.  Yet to be determined.  I know some have complained about UGA and bama being home/home and away/away but I actually like it.  

The bolded part is what makes this season feel like such a gut-punch at this very moment. This was a good season but being so close and ending the way we ended really leaves me sour right now.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

15 minutes ago, corchjay said:

Next year could be a good year but we have our 2 rivals on the road.  Will be tough.

The irony is, this year, we ended up with the hardest ranked schedule in the country with both of them at home. We can't win the schedule game.

[corchjay 5,311]

13 minutes ago, Barnacle said:

Is the biggest disappointment the O-line?

I think it might be...

I would say the OL was the cause of 3 of our 4 loses.  Clemson, LSU, UCF.   UGA #2 we took them for granted and they made some good adjustments from game one like running the stretch play more.  

[McLoofus 35,182]

2 minutes ago, corchjay said:

The talent gap between bammer and the rest of the conference outside of AU, UGA, LSU is like the talent different between AU and Vandy.  And the talent difference between bammer and AU, UGA, and LSU is like the talent difference between AU and Arkansas.  

I'd be curious to check that against 247's rankings the last 4 years. You might be right. I stand by my point, though. Part A being that saban does a better job of maximizing his talent than ours does of maximizing his, and than he gets credit for; Part B being that saban's first head coaching job came over 20 years before our guy's.

Shifting gears- this is not in response to anything you've said, Corch- I think that it's both possible and healthy to criticize Gus's shortcomings while keeping them in perspective in this way. For the most part, the guys we want him to be more like are far more experienced than he is. That is reason for optimism, because he's gotten a lot of things right that they would not have so early in their careers. Dabo is the only one to challenge this notion even a little bit, I think.  

[jAUSon 2,836]

6 minutes ago, Tiger said:

The bolded part is what makes this season feel like such a gut-punch at this very moment. This was a good season but being so close and ending the way we ended really leaves me sour right now.

Ditto. Hard to imagine going in the right direction from here. Seems like this was the year roster-wise, and our competition will be catching up next year. Hopefully I'm wrong.

[Tiger 8,817]

7 minutes ago, jAUSon said:

Ditto. Hard to imagine going in the right direction from here. Seems like this was the year roster-wise, and our competition will be catching up next year. Hopefully I'm wrong.

Right. Everything was lined up for us. LSU has freaking Orgeron as a coach. Ole Miss is dead. Arky fired their coach. Miss St was a 1 man team. We had both Bama and UGA at home. We had our QB. We had 4 seniors on the OL. We had our entire RB and WR units coming back. Defense was nasty and returned almost everyone.

 

And we lost 4 games.

[aubiefifty 16,695]

39 minutes ago, OnthePlains said:

I don’t think we are any direction, not headed up, not headed down, just stagnant. Pretty much where Auburn football has been most of my life. Auburn is a good program. Historically a top 15 or so program.  To me its not so much about whether Gus is or isn’t the guy, or whether we are trending up or down, its whether the powers that be ever want more for our program. Do they want a top 10 or top 5 program consistently or are they ok with average to good most years with the occasional great year?  Gus is right now better than baby bowden or chiz and arguably on par with what tubs did so far. He can continue to bring us these good seasons sprinkled with average seasons and go down as a decent coach in AU history.  But that will leave us where we mostly have always been, good but not great.  We’re talking about a program that hasn’t had back to back 10 win seasons in nearly 30 years and only ONCE in program history.  So sure, Gus is ok and he will continue to be ok and perhaps catch lightning one more time like 2013.  And it’s fairly obvious that a large group of Auburn people are perfectly fine with that. If more is wanted  out of our program than what we have mostly gotten in our history then major changes are needed and not just the coach. I don’t know how long it will last but Clemson has gone on a run that our program NEVER has.  Yeah they got lucky with Dabo being much better than anybody thought he would be but he has also changed the culture from being perennial underachievers to being bama’s biggest contender. Auburn either can’t seem to find the right coach or there is something systemic in our program that keeps us from achieving this.  Gus is ok. He’s not great. So, I guess he’s a perfect fit for a school that can’t seem to get out of its own way.

u a u2 fan? jusr curious after i read your last sentence..........

[McLoofus 35,182]

27 minutes ago, corchjay said:

The talent gap between bammer and the rest of the conference outside of AU, UGA, LSU is like the talent different between AU and Vandy.  And the talent difference between bammer and AU, UGA, and LSU is like the talent difference between AU and Arkansas.  

Whoa, Corch. I might not ever argue with you again. Spot on. Average star rankings going back 4 years:

Alabama 93.76, 92.54, 93.73, 93.65
Auburn 89.34, 90.65, 90.16, 88.78
Arkansas 86.02, 86.69, 86.56, 85.80

[keesler 5,923]

14 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

That's what saban does that he doesn't get enough credit for and that has nothing to do with Mark Emmert. His teams never sh** the bed. If bama loses, it's because the other team played a great game. The talent gap is not so vast that he can win as much as he does by just sleepwalking through the schedule.

That might be where the fact that saban had a rather long and successful college coaching career before Gus had even taken his first college job comes into play. Would saban have done better with our roster in his 11th year coaching in college ball? Certainly interesting to ponder. You know, I just learned the other day that saban's famous "process" was birthed in 1998. His first head coaching job was at Toledo in 1989. He'd also been a DC in the NFL under Bill Belichick by then.

And hopefully that turns my post back towards the OP's question.

I like your post McLoof.

But I honestly feel like any comparison with Saban/UAT and Malzhan/AU is unfair.  Saban's labeled "process" has gone through decades of trial 'n error.  The man has NFL experience, college experience and he some how believes it is absolutely paramount to employ coaches and analysts on his staff with the same experience he has obtained. 

That program is a step ahead of many programs from a strictly intellectual standpoint.  That staff has consistently been intellectually more advanced and experienced in the nuances of football than just about any program in the last decade.  That's why we watch them write history over there for damn near a decade.

Look at his staff for the last 5-7 yrs, now compare it with the staff of any other SEC program for the same time frame and tally up the years of college & pro experience he has collected.  Hell, at one point several of his asst coaches including freaking position coaches were previously college HEAD coaches and former NFL coaches.

It's just not a fair comparison when Auburn has had so many green horn coaches with little to no college/NFL backgrounds, or coaches that are less than 5 yrs removed from freaking high school ball.

The overall system, day to day operations and the research/development side of the inner workings of running a consistently elite program are a night and day difference because the knowledge and expertise are at a higher level.

 

 

[aubaseball 2,583]

39 minutes ago, OnthePlains said:

I don’t think we are any direction, not headed up, not headed down, just stagnant. Pretty much where Auburn football has been most of my life. Auburn is a good program. Historically a top 15 or so program.  To me its not so much about whether Gus is or isn’t the guy, or whether we are trending up or down, its whether the powers that be ever want more for our program. Do they want a top 10 or top 5 program consistently or are they ok with average to good most years with the occasional great year?  Gus is right now better than baby bowden or chiz and arguably on par with what tubs did so far. He can continue to bring us these good seasons sprinkled with average seasons and go down as a decent coach in AU history.  But that will leave us where we mostly have always been, good but not great.  We’re talking about a program that hasn’t had back to back 10 win seasons in nearly 30 years and only ONCE in program history.  So sure, Gus is ok and he will continue to be ok and perhaps catch lightning one more time like 2013.  And it’s fairly obvious that a large group of Auburn people are perfectly fine with that. If more is wanted  out of our program than what we have mostly gotten in our history then major changes are needed and not just the coach. I don’t know how long it will last but Clemson has gone on a run that our program NEVER has.  Yeah they got lucky with Dabo being much better than anybody thought he would be but he has also changed the culture from being perennial underachievers to being bama’s biggest contender. Auburn either can’t seem to find the right coach or there is something systemic in our program that keeps us from achieving this.  Gus is ok. He’s not great. So, I guess he’s a perfect fit for a school that can’t seem to get out of its own way.

Sums up Auburn to a “T” folks.   No more needs to be added.  

[AUwent 3,747]

36 minutes ago, WarEagle1983 said:

We're stagnant and will remain that way until we get another coach. I'm preparing for the same old song for at least the next 2 years until we can trim down the money on Gus's contract to fire him. I don't try to be negative but the HIGHS and lows of Gus should be no surprise. As soon as many think Gus has turned a corner he reverts back to his old ways. It's been that way from the beginning and we're what 5 years into this and thinking he's going to miraculously change? It's not happening! 

We've wasted so much talent it's unreal. It pisses me off to no end when he's so non-chalant and comes with statements like: "the future is bright" "it's not the end of the world" No it doesn't take a coach who's an azz or unethical to win but i sure would like a coach that seems to give a darn. We've had enough in the area of recruiting to be a contending team. We just lost to a team that recruits 2 and 3 stars yet we need more 4 and 5 stars to lose a well-coached team like that again? Get all the 4 and 5 stars you want but you don't develop them it's worth nothing. Defense is doing that; the offense is not. THIS team WAS a championship team. I fully believe that. Give a coach like Scott Frost this team and we're in the playoffs. No doubt about it.

Disagree with me if you want, but I think Kiffin just might be that guy a couple years down the road.

[OnthePlains 2,014]

9 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

u a u2 fan? jusr curious after i read your last sentence..........

I am but didn’t even think about that until you pointed it out. 

[keesler 5,923]

6 minutes ago, AUwent said:

Disagree with me if you want, but I think Kiffin just might be that guy a couple years down the road.

I don't see anyone in a position of authority at AU giving Kiffin even a sniff due to his immature character and previous track record.

When your program sells family, doing the right thing, integrity, and high moral character he just won't fit the mold.

[WarEagle1983 2,185]

7 minutes ago, AUwent said:

Disagree with me if you want, but I think Kiffin just might be that guy a couple years down the road.

I wouldn't be opposed. Do i think he's a jerk at times...yes. lol. But he's a jerk that can recruit and win. Plus the thought of knowing he'd want to stick it to Saban every opportunity he got would excite me. However, it would concern me in that i'd be hoping he wouldn't screw up at some point and put our program in a bad position. I'd take him over Petrino for sure. But i think he knows that if he does get another high profile job he'll be on a short leash. 

I just wonder if the majority of Auburn fan base would willing to get off their perfect moral high horses to be accepting of Kiffin? Because of that...it's hard to see him coming to AU.

Possibly with a couple more years at FAU and no bad occurrences, he'd be accepted. I'd be willing to take him b/c i do think is all he needs is a couple more years and repeating similar seasons to this year and he's going to be back at a major football program. Again..as long he doesn't frick it up. 

[AUwent 3,747]

3 minutes ago, keesler said:

I don't see anyone in a position of authority at AU giving Kiffin even a sniff due to his immature character and previous track record.

When your program sells family, doing the right thing, integrity, and high moral character he just won't fit the mold.

Unless you have a better idea. The guy won a conference championship at FLORIDA FREAKING ATLANTIC—a program that hasn’t had a winning season since 2008! Obviously he should be given a couple more years to show what he’s made of, but thanks to a certain coach getting a ridiculous contract extension, the timing lines up nicely. He strikes me as the next best thing to Scott Frost.

[aubaseball 2,583]

It doesn’t take a genius to figure out that to compare Frost’s path to becoming a head coach and Gus’ path is night and day.   If I said with no names attached, # (1) starting qb on National championship NCAA team, was a professional player, was a college LB coach, college offensive coordinator, college defensive coordinator and college head coach or #(2) back up wide receiver in college, high school coach, offensive coordinator and college head coach 

who would u take?

[OnthePlains 2,014]

2 minutes ago, aubaseball said:

It doesn’t take a genius to figure out that to compare Frost’s path to becoming a head coach and Gus’ path is night and day.   If I said with no names attached, # (1) starting qb on National championship NCAA team, was a professional player, was a college LB coach, college offensive coordinator, college defensive coordinator and college head coach or #(2) back up wide receiver in college, high school coach, offensive coordinator and college head coach 

who would u take?

Believe it or not there are apparently several on here who would take number two 

[WarEagle1983 2,185]

The up and coming coaches can be hard to evaluate sometimes and it seems that the timing has to really be on point to get the good ones like: Franklin(Penn State), former Houston coach, former Memphis coach and now Scott Frost. 

Look...i do think Gus has it in him to be one of the best coaches in the country but the man is his own fricking enemy. The unwillingness not to change, being forced to change or taking way too long to change has flat out killed him. He's a solid coach but if we want to be one of the top football programs he's just not the answer and shown it multiple years. At this point, Gus would've been a great fit for Arky or Miss St. If we as a program are willing to say we're ok with being good and not great but maybe every 4 or 5 years then Gus is our guy. I just don't agree with signing up to be Richt/UGA 2.0 when we've continuously recruited at a high level.