Bama vs Georgia

[AU64 10,122]

5 minutes ago, keesler said:

Well, Kirby bold faced lied in his post game presser.  He said he and his coaches knew Bama had no choice but to play Tua, he said they expected Tua to play. 

He just had no idea they would also throw in a half a dozen other TFr to run that offense and bench their tried & true veteran RBs.  

Yeah....I think that was bold faced lie.....just trying to sound like he was not caught off guard...JMO however.  Gotta keep up the mystique of the second best HC in the league...

[Tigerbelle 5,299]

2 minutes ago, keesler said:

Well, Kirby bold faced lied in his post game presser.  He said he and his coaches knew Bama had no choice but to play Tua, he said they expected Tua to play. 

He just had no idea they would also throw in a half a dozen other TFr to run that offense and bench their tried & true veteran RBs.  

That's pretty interesting right there. I bet Kirby never makes that mistake again.

[Barnacle 9,064]

Just now, keesler said:

Absolutely!  Tua has "his" men go to battle with him - that was their second string offense out there and they were comfortable working with each other.  He had "his" Center & LT, he has "his" WRs & RB, those are players he's worked with for 9 months or more.

Regardless of whether "he had to" or not (he did), this is an example of a great COACHING decision. He handed them the keys to the car, with no strings attached. Most coaches would be too scared to do something like that. And, he didn't flinch when Tua threw the pick.

[Barnacle 9,064]

1 minute ago, AU64 said:

Yeah....I think that was bold faced lie.....just trying to sound like he was not caught off guard...JMO however.  Gotta keep up the mystique of the second best HC in the league...

Why not believe him? This was talked about all week. Would Tua come in the game if the offense under Hurts was struggling to move the ball. Most people agreed that he would. I was certain Tua would come in during the second half, and I'm just a fan. He may have been caught off guard by how aggressive the play calling was, but I don't think he was caught off guard by the decision to change QBs.

[AU64 10,122]

1 minute ago, Barnacle said:

Why not believe him? This was talked about all week. Would Tua come in the game if the offense under Hurts was struggling to move the ball. Most people agreed that he would. I was certain Tua would come in during the second half, and I'm just a fan. He may have been caught off guard by how aggressive the play calling was, but I don't think he was caught off guard by the decision to change QBs.

OK....I did not follow the pre-game hype that close but Tua did not play in any of the really close games during the season...including AU, .Miss State and LSU so in my view it was a stretch to actually believe the guy would play....JMO .   

[keesler 5,924]

4 minutes ago, Barnacle said:

Why not believe him? This was talked about all week. Would Tua come in the game if the offense under Hurts was struggling to move the ball. Most people agreed that he would. I was certain Tua would come in during the second half, and I'm just a fan. He may have been caught off guard by how aggressive the play calling was, but I don't think he was caught off guard by the decision to change QBs.

He was caught off guard by the improved defensive play by Bama - they shut down that UGA run game and put pressure on Fromm.  He wasn't caught off guard by Tua's emergence, he was caught off guard by that entire 2nd string offense and the adjustment in the play calling and execution.  Smart/Channey went conservative on offense and Bama's defense ratcheted up their game plan.  Tua proved unshakable, that LT & C did their job and those WRs stepped up when they were called into action.  

[Tigerbelle 5,299]

3 minutes ago, Barnacle said:

Regardless of whether "he had to" or not (he did), this is an example of a great COACHING decision. He handed them the keys to the car, with no strings attached. Most coaches would be too scared to do something like that. And, he didn't flinch when Tua threw the pick.

Not really much of a risk. bammer wasn't going to win anyway if he didn't do something else.

[Barnacle 9,064]

Just now, AU64 said:

OK....I did not follow the pre-game hype that close but Tua did not play in any of the really close games during the season...including AU, .Miss State and LSU so in my view it was a stretch to actually believe the guy would play....JMO .   

Fair enough. It would surprise me if Kirby was surprised, but of course that's just my opinion as well. I have no doubt that he was surprised by the aggressive play calling and level of execution.

[Barnacle 9,064]

Just now, Tigerbelle said:

Not really much of a risk. bammer wasn't going to win anyway if he didn't do something else.

I agree that Bama was not going to win with Hurts. Still think it was a risk, and something that many coaches (ours included) would not do. Regardless, it was Tua making the plays.

[AU64 10,122]

1 minute ago, Barnacle said:

Fair enough. It would surprise me if Kirby was surprised, but of course that's just my opinion as well. I have no doubt that he was surprised by the aggressive play calling and level of execution.

That I can see.....did not watch all of bama's games but that 2nd half was unlike anything that I saw during the season.....kind of like they went away from Saban's grind it out offense and let Daboll have the reins to run his own offense maybe.?  . No question that Saban meddles with his offense....just check with Kiffen ....or Daboll for that matter if they run a play he does not like. 

[keesler 5,924]

I don't know, I consider it a huge risk to choose to put a wet behind the ears QB in the game along with half a dozen more TFr players to accompany him and let them take over the game on the national championship stage.  High risk, high reward and it obviously paid off - I can't think of another college HC in the profession that would have put a NC game on the shoulders of over dozen freshmen, some with zero starting experience.   

Hell, some coaches refuse to make a single adjustment or change to their line up after they sat back and watch poor execution & piss poor motivation from their veteran players.

[Barnacle 9,064]

2 minutes ago, AU64 said:

That I can see.....did not watch all of bama's games but that 2nd half was unlike anything that I saw during the season.....kind of like they went away from Saban's grind it out offense and let Daboll have the reins to run his own offense maybe.?  . No question that Saban meddles with his offense....just check with Kiffen ....or Daboll for that matter if they run a play he does not like. 

Well, and that's what I was most impressed with from a coaching standpoint. They gave a true freshman playing his first meaningful snaps in college, with a 13 point deficit in the NC game the full reins to the offense. Its just an incredible amount of trust. Says a lot about Tua. 

[Barnacle 9,064]

1 minute ago, keesler said:

I don't know, I consider it a huge risk to choose to put a wet behind the ears QB in the game along with half a dozen more TFr players to accompany him and let them take over the game on the national championship stage.  High risk, high reward and it obviously paid off - I can't think of another college HC in the profession that would have put a NC game on the shoulders of over dozen freshmen, some with zero starting experience.   

Hell, some coaches refuse to make a single adjustment or change to their line up after they sat back and watch poor execution & piss poor motivation from their veteran players.

Agreed. And, I'm not trying to go out of my way to give Saban credit. Just credit due. What those players actually did on the field was nothing short of amazing. 

[AU64 10,122]

1 minute ago, Barnacle said:

Well, and that's what I was most impressed with from a coaching standpoint. They gave a true freshman playing his first meaningful snaps in college, with a 13 point deficit in the NC game the full reins to the offense. Its just an incredible amount of trust. Says a lot about Tua. 

Indeed...and makes me wonder about Hurts's future .....

And as Keesler notes, tell me the last time you saw an NFL coach or even at top college coach pull his QB who was having difficulty moving the ball..no matter how bad things are going?      One thing most coaches are reluctant to mess with is the QB..  Most have fragile psyches and getting benched will about destroy them.    

[Barnacle 9,064]

4 minutes ago, AU64 said:

Indeed...and makes me wonder about Hurts's future .....

And as Keesler notes, tell me the last time you saw an NFL coach or even at top college coach pull his QB who was having difficulty moving the ball..no matter how bad things are going?      One thing most coaches are reluctant to mess with is the QB..  Most have fragile psyches and getting benched will about destroy them.    

We would have beaten Miss. State in 2014 if Gus wouldn't have hand-cuffed Sean White. That's the example I keep thinking of.

[corchjay 5,311]

4 hours ago, cole256 said:

You can't argue with a "coach"

No one was arguing.  It’s called discussion.  People can have differing opinions.  I tried private messaging you to solve whatever differences we have but you can’t get messages... 

so this fake coach stuff and old account stuff you are talking about obviously you have me confused with someone in your past because you know zero about me.  

[aujeff11 6,243]

1 hour ago, AU64 said:

Indeed...and makes me wonder about Hurts's future .....

And as Keesler notes, tell me the last time you saw an NFL coach or even at top college coach pull his QB who was having difficulty moving the ball..no matter how bad things are going?      One thing most coaches are reluctant to mess with is the QB..  Most have fragile psyches and getting benched will about destroy them.    

Steve Spurrier would bench Garcia two or three times a game. 

[AU64 10,122]

59 minutes ago, Barnacle said:

We would have beaten Miss. State in 2014 if Gus wouldn't have hand-cuffed Sean White. That's the example I keep thinking of.

I guess that could be true but football is like physics....every action has an equal and opposite reaction.....well maybe not equal every time.....but certainly some kind of reaction /response.   Just saying that anything we might have changed? , the other side would probably have responded to it in some way to offset it.   So we don't "handcuff" SW and who knows what he might have done (good or bad) or what the MSu response would have been.   The woulda- shoulda stuff is interesting but if you do that, you have to carry it to the full extent and determine what the other side would have done too...which is impossible to do..

Like last night...pretty quick after he was in the game, Tua threw a dumb INT which looked like a freshman disaster and seemed dawgs would take back  control of the game.....but wait.....Fromm makes a funky pass or something that bounces off a lineman and next thing you know bama has the ball and the dawgs are in serious trouble.   In fact, that bad play for Georgia might have rescued Tus's night..   otherwise, someone might have decided to put Hurts back in the game. 

[Barnacle 9,064]

2 minutes ago, aujeff11 said:

Steve Spurrier would bench Garcia two or three times a game. 

Reminds me how much I miss the Ol' Ball Coach. Garcia could throw a touchdown pass through double coverage and get benched simply because there was a more open receiver. 

[AU64 10,122]

6 minutes ago, aujeff11 said:

Steve Spurrier would bench Garcia two or three times a game. 

Considering Garcia's general track record as a student-athlete most people around here figured he had something on Steve to get as many "do overs" as he got while at USCe. 

[Barnacle 9,064]

5 minutes ago, AU64 said:

I guess that could be true but football is like physics....every action has an equal and opposite reaction.....well maybe not equal every time.....but certainly some kind of reaction /response.   Just saying that anything we might have changed? , the other side would probably have responded to it in some way to offset it.   So we don't "handcuff" SW and who knows what he might have done (good or bad) or what the MSu response would have been.   The woulda- shoulda stuff is interesting but if you do that, you have to carry it to the full extent and determine what the other side would have done too...which is impossible to do..

Like last night...pretty quick after he was in the game, Tua threw a dumb INT which looked like a freshman disaster and seemed dawgs would take back  control of the game.....but wait.....Fromm makes a funky pass or something that bounces off a lineman and next thing you know bama has the ball and the dawgs are in serious trouble.   In fact, that bad play for Georgia might have rescued Tus's night..   otherwise, someone might have decided to put Hurts back in the game. 

Yes, you can follow the "woulda-shoulda" stuff to all sorts of possible outcomes and that applies to literally every play in every game. We can make that argument to rebut virtually every iota of analysis performed in retrospect of a football play. And, I get your point. That being said, we lost that game. So, whatever would have or should have happened could have resulted in only two outcomes: another loss, or a victory. And, based upon the offense's performance late in the 2nd half, when Gus finally did open the offense back up, I wager that we would have won that football game but for the conservative play calling in most of the 1st, 2nd and 3rd quarters.

My point is, sometimes you have to continue to stick with the plan, even when your freshman quarterback throws a bad interception, especially when they've already demonstrated an ability to execute that plan. Regardless of the outcome, or whether Fromm throws his INT, Tua showed that he could bounce back and continue to run the offense being called. And, he led them back to victory. If Saban handcuffs Tua after the INT, I think its unlikely that Alabama still wins the game - even considering the infinite consequences to that decision.

[AU64 10,122]

Well this interesting.....gotta keep the source in mind but sounds like there was more to playing Tua than just trying to light a fire under the team

https://sports.yahoo.com/lane-kiffin-no-doubt-tua-tagovailoa-transferred-didnt-play-monday-165038619.html

[keesler 5,924]

Why is Lane Kiffin still so intamately involved in the Bama inner workings and Saban’s thought processes?  And why do people constantly ask him about that program?

[AUsince72 11,084]

2 hours ago, aujeff11 said:

Steve Spurrier would bench Garcia two or three times a game. 

Garcia had no problems with that.  He was mentally tough....or didn't care...

He'd run to the tunnel, take a puff and a shot, and go right back out again. 

....I have no links nor evidence to back me up.  

[AU64 10,122]

1 hour ago, keesler said:

Why is Lane Kiffin still so intamately involved in the Bama inner workings and Saban’s thought processes?  And why do people constantly ask him about that program?

1.   I suspect that NS is not Kiffen's favorite person

2.  'cause they never get anything from inside the evil empire...and even bama folks are interested.