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jtauburntiger

Offense in 2018

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Just up for discussion... not supporting or opposing.  But.... 

but looking at our offensive coordinator and his history

looking at our QB and his background / strengths

looking at losing 95% of RB productivity over the past 2 years

looking at rebuilding or re-shuffling the O-line 

looking at keeping 100% of our WR crew (that is very solid and improving) 

 

I know Gus is a Run first - at all cost philosophy  ... but Do you think Lindsey will make a push to let him use the KNOWN tools that we have an open up this offense like Lindsey has in the past and hurry up and pass?  Because I think with a RB that can block and catch - Lindsey might be licking his chops if he could build the O he wanted (of course a lot more stress on the D - because possessions can be short and run no clock) 

 

Just a thought... the tools are there (potentially)  but I know it is not what Gus wants to do exactly.

 

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"You know what a team can do against that coverage? Run the dang ball.

The real effect of the wide hash marks in college isn't for offenses to have endless room to attack defenses unless they have exceptionally gifted quarterbacks who won't be around for long before they go off to the NFL. Instead the hash marks allow the defense to box in the offense and force them to work in confined space.  Running games are also damaged by the wide hash marks as a defense can use a hard force player to contain the running back within a narrower space where the linebackers can then more easily reach him. However, the rise of RPOs and spread option tactics are helping offenses mitigate that concern by punishing those force players with quick passes that are left open when combined with the run game.  What the Patriots did was impressive, and it'll likely help change the way the game is played as teams put greater emphasis on quick reads and throws at every level, but there are challenges in the college game that are always going to make the run game a more attractive option for building prolonged success."

I will forever believe the key to opening (back) up the SEC version of Malzahn's offense is utilizing a TE or HB in the pass game to the middle of the field.  He has not shown much interest in even throwing to that guy since Lutz.

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Sorry but I'm a full fledged member of the tin-foil-hat wearing "Gus is the REAL Offensive Coordinator" Brigade.

He may not tromp the sidelines with a notebook and rolling his hands and screaming as much, in game, as he wants to do but the game plans, play-calling, conservative nature of the O when they get on the opponent's side of the 50, the unwillingness to use more than 1 RB, the lack of passing game sophistication, the inability to adjust and the lack of preparedness for adversity.......  These are the same traits that have mired the AU offense his entire time on the plains.  Auburn's tremendous successes on 2010 & 2013 were as much testiments to the durability of Cam and Tre than anything considering, just like every other year, he ran them into the dirt.  All this more than suggests he's still the puppet master.

So.... No.

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We will have to wait and see.  I have watched Chip Lindsey coach at the high school level at Spain Park and at the D1 leval at ASU.  In my observation, Chip is very good at knowing where his best weapons are and building the offense around them.  If the running game is taking a step back due to early NFL departures and the passing game is taking a noticeable step toward elite status, then yes, we will see much more in the passing game.  

IMO, I think with KJ and KP being gone, it will lead to a much greater balance in the offense.  I would not be shocked to see two 1,000 yard receivers in 2018.  We will have a stable of talented running backs in K-Mart, A-Mart, DB, and MM, but none of them are built for 20+ carries each game and none of them are very game experienced.  The passing game will have to loosen up the D to give the running game a chance to be successful.  It's a shift from the past 4 years when we have had a proven RB or two that the O relied on to loosen up the D to make the passing game successful.  

I see much more balance, if not a slight lean toward the passing game in 2018...that is, if CCL is given full decision making control over his offense.

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36 minutes ago, alexava said:

If line can protect. Yes

my initial concern as well, but these pass heavy/ hurry up OCs like to emphasize the screens, quick slants, crossing patterns, quick out routes  - timing routes ... to keep pressure on the defenses and keep the chains moving - rather than the slow developing patterns that we have relied upon so much - that require 3-5 seconds of pocket protection to develop and put so much pressure on the OL.  getting the ball out of the QBs hands quickly on these routes ( that Lindsey used effectively at previous locations) can partially cover up O line deficiencies and inexperience - but a pass catching TE would be a HUGE addition to our O. 

 

just curious others thoughts - since I have way too long before I see another AU snap of the football 

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As long as Gus is HC at Auburn, we will never have a sophisticated downfield passing attack. We will continue to abuse one back all season, get a ton of rushing yards, then get shut down by teams who actually coach and adjust. 

 

We have no offensive development(especially at qb), refuse to bring along backups, ignore HB and TE in passing, keep the same obvious tendencies, and ever few years get lucky with a juco kid. Thus is life with this idiot of a coach. 

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4 minutes ago, AUGunsmith said:

As long as Gus is HC at Auburn, we will never have a sophisticated downfield passing attack. We will continue to abuse one back all season, get a ton of rushing yards, then get shut down by teams who actually coach and adjust. 

 

We have no offensive development(especially at qb), refuse to bring along backups, ignore HB and TE in passing, keep the same obvious tendencies, and ever few years get lucky with a juco kid. Thus is life with this idiot of a coach. 

Quite a pessimistic view of things but I agree on a couple of points.  I just hope he continues to progress as a coach and sees that adjustments need to be made.  Especially in regards to developing more of a passing game when our screens get shut down.  It's like we have no back up plan.

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5 minutes ago, fishepa said:

Quite a pessimistic view of things but I agree on a couple of points.  I just hope he continues to progress as a coach and sees that adjustments need to be made.  Especially in regards to developing more of a passing game when our screens get shut down.  It's like we have no back up plan.

I don't see it as pessimism as much as realism. If he hasn't learned that college requires actual passing in 6 years as an HC, he shouldn't be employed at a place like auburn. 

New OC, same ol dog and pony show. 

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48 minutes ago, jtauburntiger said:

my initial concern as well, but these pass heavy/ hurry up OCs like to emphasize the screens, quick slants, crossing patterns, quick out routes  - timing routes ... to keep pressure on the defenses and keep the chains moving - rather than the slow developing patterns that we have relied upon so much - that require 3-5 seconds of pocket protection to develop and put so much pressure on the OL.  getting the ball out of the QBs hands quickly on these routes ( that Lindsey used effectively at previous locations) can partially cover up O line deficiencies and inexperience - but a pass catching TE would be a HUGE addition to our O. 

 

just curious others thoughts - since I have way too long before I see another AU snap of the football 

I like the discussion but it will turn into another thread of ripping Gus. It’s going to be a long offseason. 

I am concerned about the RB position. We have not really killed it in RB recruiting. I guess I gave more fuel to rip Gus. 

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1 hour ago, jtauburntiger said:

my initial concern as well, but these pass heavy/ hurry up OCs like to emphasize the screens, quick slants, crossing patterns, quick out routes  - timing routes ... to keep pressure on the defenses and keep the chains moving - rather than the slow developing patterns that we have relied upon so much - that require 3-5 seconds of pocket protection to develop and put so much pressure on the OL.  getting the ball out of the QBs hands quickly on these routes ( that Lindsey used effectively at previous locations) can partially cover up O line deficiencies and inexperience - but a pass catching TE would be a HUGE addition to our O. 

 

just curious others thoughts - since I have way too long before I see another AU snap of the football 

I really hope that a SIGNIFICANT increase in these concepts is evident in our 2018 offense.  That would definitely play to our apparent strengths.  

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3 hours ago, jtauburntiger said:

Just up for discussion... not supporting or opposing.  But.... 

but looking at our offensive coordinator and his history

looking at our QB and his background / strengths

looking at losing 95% of RB productivity over the past 2 years

looking at rebuilding or re-shuffling the O-line 

looking at keeping 100% of our WR crew (that is very solid and improving) 

 

I know Gus is a Run first - at all cost philosophy  ... but Do you think Lindsey will make a push to let him use the KNOWN tools that we have an open up this offense like Lindsey has in the past and hurry up and pass?  Because I think with a RB that can block and catch - Lindsey might be licking his chops if he could build the O he wanted (of course a lot more stress on the D - because possessions can be short and run no clock) 

 

Just a thought... the tools are there (potentially)  but I know it is not what Gus wants to do exactly.

 

If Chip had full control over the offense, absolutely. But Chip doesn't have full control. This isn't about bashing Gus, but Gus doesn't let his coordinators control the assistant coaches. Gus chooses the assistants. That's just how he handles it. 

Also, as long as Gus is the coach, we will run more than we pass. We may balance the yards or come close to balancing the snap count, but with Gus, the run total will always be higher than the pass. He runs to set up the pass, not the other way around. Gus could go on to become the best coach we have ever had and stay 40 years, but being a run first team is unlikely to ever change, unless Gus himself changes. 

2 hours ago, Turd Ferguson said:

We will have to wait and see.  I have watched Chip Lindsey coach at the high school level at Spain Park and at the D1 leval at ASU.  In my observation, Chip is very good at knowing where his best weapons are and building the offense around them.  If the running game is taking a step back due to early NFL departures and the passing game is taking a noticeable step toward elite status, then yes, we will see much more in the passing game.  

IMO, I think with KJ and KP being gone, it will lead to a much greater balance in the offense.  I would not be shocked to see two 1,000 yard receivers in 2018.  We will have a stable of talented running backs in K-Mart, A-Mart, DB, and MM, but none of them are built for 20+ carries each game and none of them are very game experienced.  The passing game will have to loosen up the D to give the running game a chance to be successful.  It's a shift from the past 4 years when we have had a proven RB or two that the O relied on to loosen up the D to make the passing game successful.  

I see much more balance, if not a slight lean toward the passing game in 2018...that is, if CCL is given full decision making control over his offense.

Love your imagination, but since Auburn started playing football in 1892, we have fielded a total of 2 different 1,000 yard receivers (Beasley 1970 and Ronnie Daniels 1999.) The odds of having a single one next season are against us... having 2 would be unthinkable. 

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3 hours ago, jtauburntiger said:

Just up for discussion... not supporting or opposing.  But.... 

but looking at our offensive coordinator and his history

looking at our QB and his background / strengths

looking at losing 95% of RB productivity over the past 2 years

looking at rebuilding or re-shuffling the O-line 

looking at keeping 100% of our WR crew (that is very solid and improving) 

 

I know Gus is a Run first - at all cost philosophy  ... but Do you think Lindsey will make a push to let him use the KNOWN tools that we have an open up this offense like Lindsey has in the past and hurry up and pass?  Because I think with a RB that can block and catch - Lindsey might be licking his chops if he could build the O he wanted (of course a lot more stress on the D - because possessions can be short and run no clock) 

 

Just a thought... the tools are there (potentially)  but I know it is not what Gus wants to do exactly.

 

The first thing we will hear when Gus is asked a version of this same question is, "We're a downhill, run-first offense. That's who we are."  That's not ripping Gus, that's stating fact based on past history.

Edited by Swamp Eagle

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53 minutes ago, alexava said:

I like the discussion but it will turn into another thread of ripping Gus. It’s going to be a long offseason. 

I am concerned about the RB position. We have not really killed it in RB recruiting. I guess I gave more fuel to rip Gus. 

You're right, and that's unfortunate.  I'm as guilty as anybody...maybe more than most...of being a Gus ripper.

But that's because I've been a huge Gus supporter every time he's shown evidence of growth (for 3 years now) only for everything to revert back to the same exact script each year.

It's hard to be overly optimistic and want to talk x's & o's or players or game planning or style of offense or who will step up, etc, when no matter what, it's still Gus running the show the way he wants to run the show....which is the same way he's run it for 4 years now.

I'm convinced that until/unless he let's go and trusts his O-coaches or if he insists on pulling the strings, at least installs another (very) athletic QB who's run-first but a serviceable passer then AU can have a team of 5*'s or a team of 3*'s and they'll perform pretty much the same.

PLEASE, I'd LOVE for him to prove me wrong!  I'm BEGGING for him to!  But so far its been Fool me once....Fool me twice....Fool me 3 times....

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1 hour ago, AUGunsmith said:

New OC, same ol dog and pony show. 

Not true in the slightest.  Since Chip has come in, we are 1 of 4 teams in the entire country that averaged over 215 yards on the ground and in the air.  Could not say that before Chip.  The route trees have also gotten more complex than with Lashlee.

2 hours ago, AUGunsmith said:

As long as Gus is HC at Auburn, we will never have a sophisticated downfield passing attack. We will continue to abuse one back all season, get a ton of rushing yards, then get shut down by teams who actually coach and adjust. 

 

We have no offensive development(especially at qb), refuse to bring along backups, ignore HB and TE in passing, keep the same obvious tendencies, and ever few years get lucky with a juco kid. Thus is life with this idiot of a coach. 

Same as above, statistics do not lie.  And we sure did not get shut down by Saban this year, or Smart when we were fully healthy.

Edited by abw0004

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Before everyone trashes the coach for not changing his offense, here are some statistics (taken after the bowl game):

RUSHING OFFENSE
2013: 328.3 (1st, 1st)
2014: 255.5 (2nd, 13th)
2015: 196.4 (5th, 35th)
2016: 271.3 (1st, 6th)
2017: 218.3 (4th, 26th)

PASSING OFFENSE
2013: 173.0 (11th, 106th)
2014: 229.5 (7th, 66th)
2015: 173.6 (12th, 110th)
2016: 169.5 (14th, 112th
2017: 233.4 (5th, 65th)

TOTAL OFFENSE
2013: 501.3 (2nd, 11th)
2014: 485.0 (2nd, 16th)
2015: 370.0 (10th, 94th)
2016: 440.8 (6th, 43rd)
2017: 451.6 (3rd, 26th)

As you can see from the numbers, our rushing went down this year to even out with the passing, which jumped up.  I might add, the passing rankings were better than 2013 and 2014.  As a result, our scoring offense also went up.  This is all under a coordinator who has only been here a year.  Imagine what a second year would do.  Statistically, our defense is at our 2008 levels.  Trash Gus all you want, but he is fixing problem areas from years past.

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2 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

Before everyone trashes the coach for not changing his offense, here are some statistics (taken after the bowl game):

RUSHING OFFENSE
2013: 328.3 (1st, 1st)
2014: 255.5 (2nd, 13th)
2015: 196.4 (5th, 35th)
2016: 271.3 (1st, 6th)
2017: 218.3 (4th, 26th)

PASSING OFFENSE
2013: 173.0 (11th, 106th)
2014: 229.5 (7th, 66th)
2015: 173.6 (12th, 110th)
2016: 169.5 (14th, 112th
2017: 233.4 (5th, 65th)

TOTAL OFFENSE
2013: 501.3 (2nd, 11th)
2014: 485.0 (2nd, 16th)
2015: 370.0 (10th, 94th)
2016: 440.8 (6th, 43rd)
2017: 451.6 (3rd, 26th)

As you can see from the numbers, our rushing went down this year to even out with the passing, which jumped up.  I might add, the passing rankings were better than 2013 and 2014.  As a result, our scoring offense also went up.  This is all under a coordinator who has only been here a year.  Imagine what a second year would do.  Statistically, our defense is at our 2008 levels.  Trash Gus all you want, but he is fixing problem areas from years past.

agreed.   there are clearly differences in our 2017 offense than previous years.  Thus the initiative of starting this thread.   I think that if you look at Lindsey, some early changes he has made, and the clear strengths of this roster moving into 2018 -  that we could see something different this year unless we have a RB that really turns the coaches heads 

 

or maybe I am just trying to milk an dying thread.... 

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I can accept a run-first offense, but I can't accept our propensity to ram our heads into a brick wall. A good defense can counter our tendencies which are pretty obvious, and our passing game still consists primarily of screens and hail mary's. This season we threw the ball more, but still failed to attack half the field which killed us when teams could get consistent pressure. (Not hard with our swiss cheese pass protection)

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2 minutes ago, jtauburntiger said:

or maybe I am just trying to milk an dying thread.... 

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I'd be all for judging Gus (and AU's) success solely based on stats.  ....as long as we can skip the stats from the Clemson, LSU & UCF games.  Yet, you can't ignore those performances, which he's good for at least 2, 3, 4 times per year.  Unfortunately, those stats are as meaningful as the happy stats.

...and that's giving him the benefit of the doubt and letting the excuses fly against thUga in the seccg.... even though perhaps using 3 other healthy RB's and an original gameplan might have helped them, instead of the same ol, same ol game plan and running it with a broken down back... But I'll overlook that for conversation sake.

Edited by AUsince72
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We will see more of what we saw this past season.  Not that that is a bad thing.  But I would like to see more adjustments when it isn't operating consistently. 

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53 minutes ago, Auburn2Eugene said:

 

Love your imagination, but since Auburn started playing football in 1892, we have fielded a total of 2 different 1,000 yard receivers (Beasley 1970 and Ronnie Daniels 1999.) The odds of having a single one next season are against us... having 2 would be unthinkable. 

Is it unthinkable, Au2Eugene, if I just thought it?!  HA!  You can't stop me no matter who you are!!!  

 

Btu seriously...we definitely have 1,000 yard receivers on our roster if they can get enough touches in a CCL scheme.  We have had a bunch of guys nearly clip 1,000 receiving yards over the years:

 

Coates had 902 in  2014 and Duke Williams wasn't far behind and who knows if he had played the whole season.

Adams had 963 in 2010 with T Zach in the 700s, I believe.

Adams had 997 in 2009

Goodson had 906 and Bailey had 840 in 1997 almost our tandem 1,000 yard receivers here

Sanders had 910 in 1994

Sanders had 842 in 1993

 

so we've been close, but this year, with this stable, we have a chance to break through.  No so unthinkable to me.

 

With Gus's new deal, he is going to have to rely on CCL more.   I think we are now entering the "New Gus" era.  

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6 minutes ago, Turd Ferguson said:

Is it unthinkable, Au2Eugene, if I just thought it?!  HA!  You can't stop me no matter who you are!!!  

 

Btu seriously...we definitely have 1,000 yard receivers on our roster if they can get enough touches in a CCL scheme.  We have had a bunch of guys nearly clip 1,000 receiving yards over the years:

 

Coates had 902 in  2014 and Duke Williams wasn't far behind and who knows if he had played the whole season.

Adams had 963 in 2010 with T Zach in the 700s, I believe.

Adams had 997 in 2009

Goodson had 906 and Bailey had 840 in 1997 almost our tandem 1,000 yard receivers here

Sanders had 910 in 1994

Sanders had 842 in 1993

 

so we've been close, but this year, with this stable, we have a chance to break through.  No so unthinkable to me.

 

With Gus's new deal, he is going to have to rely on CCL more.   I think we are now entering the "New Gus" era.  

Let's hope. 

I hope it happens, there is nothing I would love to see more, but I'll believe it when I see it. And wasn't trying to stop ya, not at all.

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