2019 4* RB Noah Cain (Penn St.)

[Zeek 16,616]

Anyways, I’m hoping we really pull in Cain. We could use a huge get like him considering we missed on Booth as well.

[Mikey 16,550]

2 hours ago, NorthGATiger said:

I would say Dyer and Roc.  Jovon was close.  We were top 2 for Lattimore until the end.  We are not even making the top 3 for these backs anymore.

Roc was a 5* right enough, but more of a scatback prospect, if I'm recalling correctly. That leaves Dyer, who I forgot. I don't think KJ and Asa Martin were top five in the nation. Maybe top five on our want list but that's a different thing. Point is, this year isn't much, if any different from prior years as far as AU recruiting RB's. There's no way KJ's number of carries kept us from getting, say Chubb who we tried to sign, or Emmitt Smith, who we missed on before these current guys were born or the many in between who we "finished second" for. KJ's carries are apparently the whine du jour but us missing on top level RB's is far, far from something new and has been going on long before people started counting carries and claiming that's the reason we aren't signing top RB's.

[NorthGATiger 1,801]

9 hours ago, Mikey said:

Roc was a 5* right enough, but more of a scatback prospect, if I'm recalling correctly. That leaves Dyer, who I forgot. I don't think KJ and Asa Martin were top five in the nation. Maybe top five on our want list but that's a different thing. Point is, this year isn't much, if any different from prior years as far as AU recruiting RB's. There's no way KJ's number of carries kept us from getting, say Chubb who we tried to sign, or Emmitt Smith, who we missed on before these current guys were born or the many in between who we "finished second" for. KJ's carries are apparently the whine du jour but us missing on top level RB's is far, far from something new and has been going on long before people started counting carries and claiming that's the reason we aren't signing top RB's.

I think we are in agreement on some of this.  KJ while dynamic and a good player had the lowest ypc of any starting back since Ben Tate in 2008.  It was the amount of carries and the amount of carries only that had him anywhere near the yardage to beat out other backs in the SEC.  Bubba averaged a yard more in 2016 while KJ had the exact same 4.9 per attempt.  Jovon, Cap, Roc, Grant, and Mason all had more yards per carry.  

I'm not saying we can get an elite RB every year but if you look at the numbers we definitely need better production from a YPC standpoint.  That is where an elite back can help.  We don't have to put up rushing numbers like UGA did last year but they made ours look very pedestrian.

[NoALtiger 3,849]

KN just said on the radio that it’s nowhere near over but LSU is the favorite FYI. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

10 hours ago, Mikey said:

Roc was a 5* right enough, but more of a scatback prospect, if I'm recalling correctly. That leaves Dyer, who I forgot. I don't think KJ and Asa Martin were top five in the nation. Maybe top five on our want list but that's a different thing. Point is, this year isn't much, if any different from prior years as far as AU recruiting RB's. There's no way KJ's number of carries kept us from getting, say Chubb who we tried to sign, or Emmitt Smith, who we missed on before these current guys were born or the many in between who we "finished second" for. KJ's carries are apparently the whine du jour but us missing on top level RB's is far, far from something new and has been going on long before people started counting carries and claiming that's the reason we aren't signing top RB's.

Roc wasn't a scatback prospect. He was RB2 going into 2015, behind Robinson and ahead of Barber. He refused to stop dancing and was asked to change his role. He didn't want to and transferred. 

KJ and AMart were both top 5 at their position according to Rivals. All of this information is at our fingertips.

Why are you talking about Emmitt Smith? He has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the current state of Auburn football. 

Always with the "whine" dig. Not sure if more ironic or hypocritical.

The number of carries isn't the only problem, but it's a problem. Just look at the 5* guy who said he wants to go share a backfield with other 5* guys at uga, who just sent 2 guys with fewer yards and fewer carries ahead of KJ in the draft. Just look at KJ's own comments that he shouldn't have been used that way. Is this where I ask you if you think you know more than the players?

[McLoofus 35,182]

13 hours ago, oracle79 said:

I appreciate your research on that.  If you still have it around, could you do the same but only use the 4 losses and show the percentages?  I'd guess it would be a LOT more skewed, but that's just a guess.

These are actual carries and not percentages.

Clemson: KP 22, Stove 1, Cox 1, Stid 18*

LSU: KJ 31, Stove 3, Stid 6* KP 4

SECCG: KJ 13, Stid 9*, KMart 4, Stove 3, Miller 2  

Bowl game: KJ 22, KMart 6, Stove 3, Barrett 1, Stid 12*

*That includes a lot of sacks.

Notice that our current RB1 had 10 total carries in our final 2 games- a conference championship game and a bowl game- which we lost and for which he was completely healthy. 

 

 

 

[aujeff11 6,243]

 

10 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

who just sent 2 guys with fewer yards and fewer carries ahead of KJ in the draft. Just look at KJ's own comments that he shouldn't have been used that way.

Those two were drafted ahead of KJ because they were more talented. Sony has a larger body that ran an official 4.54 (I still believe he’s faster than this.). Chubbs ran a 4.52. Let’s not act like their fewer yards or carries is a reason why they were drafted ahead of Kerryon.

Kerryon didn’t like being used as much as he did, but again, nobody wants to tell me which capable back was going to lead us against Georgia x2, UCF, and Alabama.

[lutzcammed 469]

This is an off-the-wall remark but if any of us call ourselves running back U we are kidding ourselves. If we were in fact running back U it would be an easy sell to the incoming prospects.

[Mikey 16,550]

2 hours ago, McLoofus said:

Why are you talking about Emmitt Smith? He has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the current state of Auburn football. 

To illustrate that we were missing, or (finishing second) on top of the line RB's long before KJ carried the ball 285 times, a number that isn't at all unusual for the SEC's leading rusher. Somebody recently posted a list of leading rushers over the last 18 years. 12 of the 18 had over 280 carries. 285 is on the low end of normal. If we're letting rival teams use 285 carries against us, our recruiters aren't on the right track.

[McLoofus 35,182]

4 minutes ago, Mikey said:

To illustrate that we were missing, or (finishing second) on top of the line RB's long before KJ carried the ball 285 times, a number that isn't at all unusual for the SEC's leading rusher. Somebody recently posted a list of leading rushers over the last 18 years. 12 of the 18 had over 280 carries. 285 is on the low end of normal. If we're letting rival teams use 285 carries against us, our recruiters aren't on the right track.

Well, yeah, if you get over 280 carries you're going to lead the league in rushing. Even if you're only 14th in yards per carry. 

 

[toddc 13,194]

13 minutes ago, Mikey said:

To illustrate that we were missing, or (finishing second) on top of the line RB's long before KJ carried the ball 285 times, a number that isn't at all unusual for the SEC's leading rusher. Somebody recently posted a list of leading rushers over the last 18 years. 12 of the 18 had over 280 carries. 285 is on the low end of normal. If we're letting rival teams use 285 carries against us, our recruiters aren't on the right track.

This whole idea of running backs not wanting too many carries seems like a new phenomenon to me! It used to be a positive recruiting tool to tell backs they would be the bell cow of your team. I know players are bigger... faster... today, but I still think most big time backs wanting reduced carries is not as prevalent as has been suggested.

[steeleagle 2,945]

2 hours ago, McLoofus said:

These are actual carries and not percentages.

Clemson: KP 22, Stove 1, Cox 1, Stid 18*

LSU: KJ 31, Stove 3, Stid 6* KP 4

SECCG: KJ 13, Stid 9*, KMart 4, Stove 3, Miller 2  

Bowl game: KJ 22, KMart 6, Stove 3, Barrett 1, Stid 12*

*That includes a lot of sacks.

Notice that our current RB1 had 10 total carries in our final 2 games- a conference championship game and a bowl game- which we lost and for which he was completely healthy. 

 

 

 

The only game I have a serious problem with is the SECCG. 

KJ was definitely injured, and it should have been GM's responsibility to give KMart teh start, and a bulk of the carries to see if he could give us some ground offense. Then use KJ sparingly, maybe for passes and a few carries. He should have never had 13 carries and KMart 9. That put JS in a tough bind to get him in comfortable downs to pass the ball. 

And in regards to Cain, the reason I don't see him coming to Auburn is based on his comments regarding the kind of OL and offense he wants to run behind. It was more of the pro style and certainly not the offense we run.

[aujeff11 6,243]

13 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Well, yeah, if you get over 280 carries you're going to lead the league in rushing. Even if you're only 14th in yards per carry. 

 

Great. Now you’re to the point of minimizing the performance of the SEC Offensive POTY.

“Auburn's star running back has 263 carries for 1,320 yards and 17 touchdowns, 23 receptions for 188 yards and two scores and a touchdown pass in helping lead the Tigers to an SEC West division title. Johnson leads the SEC in rushing yards and rushing yards per game (120), where he ranks 14th nationally, and is second in the conference in rushing touchdowns.”

[McLoofus 35,182]

4 minutes ago, toddc said:

This whole idea of running backs not wanting too many carries seems like a new phenomenon to me! It used to be a positive recruiting tool to tell backs they would be the bell cow of your team. I know players are bigger... faster... today, but I still think most big time backs wanting reduced carries is not as prevalent as has been suggested.

It is indeed a new phenomenon. Caddy and Ronnie, Reggie and Lendale... that seemed pretty revolutionary 15 years ago. But it's very common now for playoff-caliber teams. 

I ran the numbers on the top 3 rushers in terms of number of carries on each of the 16 playoff teams so far. 2 things will jump out: 280+ carry RBs are very rare on championship-caliber teams- 2 out of 16, with Zeke Elliott being the only other player to even approach that number- and dual-threat QBs are definitely a thing.

2014

Oregon 252/135 (QB)/113
FSU 170/150/57 (QB)
OSU 273/171 (QB)/72 (QB)
bama 194/172/ 83 (QB)

2015

Clemson 282/207 (QB)/42
Oklahoma 226/141 (QB)/113
bama 395/77/74 (QB)
Mich St 146/119/110

2016

Clemson 232/165 (QB)/47
OSU 205 (QB)/182/97
bama 191 (QB)/146/125
Wash 237/114/65 (QB)

2017

uga 223/156/81
Oklahoma 188/121/97 (QB)
bama 154 (QB)/135/124
Clemson 192 (QB)/107/107

 

 

[McLoofus 35,182]

18 minutes ago, steeleagle said:

The only game I have a serious problem with is the SECCG. 

KJ was definitely injured, and it should have been GM's responsibility to give KMart teh start, and a bulk of the carries to see if he could give us some ground offense. Then use KJ sparingly, maybe for passes and a few carries. He should have never had 13 carries and KMart 9. That put JS in a tough bind to get him in comfortable downs to pass the ball. 

...and repping KMart more throughout the season would have had him better prepared for the SECCG. Probably. 

Quote

And in regards to Cain, the reason I don't see him coming to Auburn is based on his comments regarding the kind of OL and offense he wants to run behind. It was more of the pro style and certainly not the offense we run.

Yeah, I must admit that I spun off of Cain awhile ago. I'm more hung up on Emery saying he wants to go share the ball with other 5* guys at uga. Thank you for reeling it back to the kid this thread is for. 

[NorthGATiger 1,801]

2 hours ago, aujeff11 said:

 

Those two were drafted ahead of KJ because they were more talented. Sony has a larger body that ran an official 4.54 (I still believe he’s faster than this.). Chubbs ran a 4.52. Let’s not act like their fewer yards or carries is a reason why they were drafted ahead of Kerryon.

Kerryon didn’t like being used as much as he did, but again, nobody wants to tell me which capable back was going to lead us against Georgia x2, UCF, and Alabama.

Who is at fault here for not having another RB on the roster capable of playing against those 3.  Most will say Pettway was injured but Pettway was miraculously found after the Jovon dismissal.  He was never recruited to play RB at Auburn.  He was penciled in to be the H Back.  The answer can be found in the 2016 and 2017 classes.

2013- Great class and effort put into the position- Jovon 5-11 220,  Rudy Ford 5-11 194,  Peyton Barber 5-11 215,  Cap 5-11 212
           They recruited backs that were able to play in the system Gus wants to run with good weight. Ford was the only guy under 212 in that group.
           Jovon had a clearinghouse issue, Rudy moved to defense, and Cap and Barber were productive. CAP had a 6 ypc average at AU.  Barber had a 4.3 Average in his lone year starting.

2014-  Roc Thomas was the only back and that was fine as a 5 star stud at 5-11 196.  Great HS career and he was to be the future.  Averaged 5.6 ypc at AU

2015-  KJ and Jovon again.  No complaints here.  Solid.  Jovon averaged 5.5 ypc at AU  KJ averaged 4.9

2016-  Kam Martin 5-10 178 and Miller 5-11 229.  Underwhelming for what we want to do.  Miller was a 3 star back and has not contributed. Kam to this point has been used as a  situational back at best weighing 178.  We will see what the expanded role and weight gain produces

2017-  Devan Barrett and Alaric.  Alaric was a known qualifying risk early on.  Devan moved to WR.

2018-  Asa, Shivers, and Harold Joiner.  Hoping for big things from these guys though Joiner looks like he will play TE.

We recruited backs in 2016 and 2017 that are not what our prototypical backs have been under Gus and it proved to be so as they could not be counted on to help with the workload.  Hard to blame Devan as he was just a Freshman.  The two year misfire for what is needed in this offense really hurt us last year and might this year.

Gus killed it in the 2013, 2014, and 2015 classes.  215+ pound kids that were game changers along with Roc who was a very electric back.
Gus then went with a 178 lb situational back in Martin and a 3 star back in Miller who was never going to be RB1 here.  Devan Barrett looked good on paper and on the recruiting sites but could not keep from being moved to WR where there is a plethora of talent already.

Gus has had horrible luck with some guys like Jovon and Pettway.  I don't blame him for this.  What he should have learned after Jovon is that you better recruit studs that can plug and play every year.  You can't have a year and certainly not 2 in a row where you recruit situational backs and not plug and play workload backs.  He has gone to leaner backs as of late and then tells us of their pass pro woes.  Well no duh.  

This is all just my opinion of course but to me we must have multiple workload backs on the roster and situational backs mixed in.  You can't just have situational sized backs in a run first play action pass offense. 

I don't want to leave out Tre Mason because I know there will be those that think he was a situational back.  Tre was 5-8 210 at the draft combine.  He also ran a 10.9 100 in HS.  5-8 210 is very comparable in thickness to 5-11 212-220.  

 

[aujeff11 6,243]

20 minutes ago, NorthGATiger said:

Who is at fault here for not having another RB on the roster capable of playing against those 3.  

Gus can be at fault for not having better quality/ prepared RBs on his team. If he’s a “put your eggs in one basket” kind of risk taker, then his criticism should continue. He’s not above reproach. If Kam couldn’t handle the Clemson pass rush though, I don’t care to blame Gus for not having him ready to handle the pash rush against Georgia and Bama. No amount of mid season reps would help Martin all of sudden learn how to pass block against big and bad LB brutes that are now in the NFL. 

 

20 minutes ago, NorthGATiger said:

Gus then went with a 178 lb situational back in Martin

He was gifted Martin from the Baylor situation at that. Gus doesn’t always play his cards right but generally, when it come down to the bottom of it, most of his moves make sense in some way. 

 

20 minutes ago, NorthGATiger said:

Gus has had horrible luck with some guys like Jovon and Pettway.  I don't blame him for this.  What he should have learned after Jovon is that you better recruit studs that can plug and play every year.  You can't have a year and certainly not 2 in a row where you recruit situational backs and not plug and play workload backs.  He has gone to leaner backs as of late and then tells us of their pass pro woes.  Well no duh.  

This is all just my opinion of course but to me we must have multiple workload backs on the roster and situational backs mixed in.  You can't just have situational sized backs in a run first play action pass offense. 

 

I agree with this. More workhorses are needed. Attrition, suspensions, and injuries are inevitable. Time to recruit that way. I would not mind if herecruited the juco ranks more to gain more plug N play guys like Cameron Artis Payne.

[tinman 305]

2 hours ago, toddc said:

This whole idea of running backs not wanting too many carries seems like a new phenomenon to me! It used to be a positive recruiting tool to tell backs they would be the bell cow of your team. I know players are bigger... faster... today, but I still think most big time backs wanting reduced carries is not as prevalent as has been suggested.

It is relatively new, but it escalated after Marcus Latimore's injury.  A sure fire top 10 draft pick, his stock plummeted  after his injury.  And Marcus shared carries that season with another back (can't recall his name).  It seems now it's about getting just enough carries to impress the NFL but not too many to risk injury.  And no one sales it better than Saban & Kirby.  And now we can add Pruitt to the list.

[keesler 5,924]

5 hours ago, toddc said:

This whole idea of running backs not wanting too many carries seems like a new phenomenon to me! It used to be a positive recruiting tool to tell backs they would be the bell cow of your team. I know players are bigger... faster... today, but I still think most big time backs wanting reduced carries is not as prevalent as has been suggested.

It's not new, it's been around a few years at least.  The lifespan of a RB is shorter than it used to be......RB's don't want to get over used in college (KJ's complaints), risk injury and have to carry the lions share to the point where it hurts their draft stock. 

Most big time backs want the carries to showcase their talents along with the talent surrounding them.  They want to show out enough on TV to prove to the scouts that they're ready for the pro's, they're willing to share the workload if the program has consistently proven that they can distribute the ball enough and still can get their RBs a decent draft spot.

Bottom line, CGM needs to spread the wealth more, get the depth quality experience and get his dang backs drafted on the regular in the top rounds.

[fredst 9,064]

23 hours ago, Mikey said:

Roc was a 5* right enough, but more of a scatback prospect, if I'm recalling correctly. That leaves Dyer, who I forgot. I don't think KJ and Asa Martin were top five in the nation. Maybe top five on our want list but that's a different thing. Point is, this year isn't much, if any different from prior years as far as AU recruiting RB's. There's no way KJ's number of carries kept us from getting, say Chubb who we tried to sign, or Emmitt Smith, who we missed on before these current guys were born or the many in between who we "finished second" for. KJ's carries are apparently the whine du jour but us missing on top level RB's is far, far from something new and has been going on long before people started counting carries and claiming that's the reason we aren't signing top RB's.

Man, I thought we were going to get Emmitt- I knew about him and was hoping like heck to get him long before recruiting was a “thing”. It sure was sweet to beat him and then chant “Emmitt, Emmitt...” for those old enough to remember this one:

 

[gctiger 924]

8 hours ago, fredst said:

Man, I thought we were going to get Emmitt- I knew about him and was hoping like heck to get him long before recruiting was a “thing”. It sure was sweet to beat him and then chant “Emmitt, Emmitt...” for those old enough to remember this one:

 

I was at the game and remember it well.   I think it was the 50th anniversary of JHS.  The Wasdens were our neighbors in Pensacola and I used to play pickup ball with Shane Wasden and his younger brother, Tommy.  Their Dad was a head coach at a local high school and one game he played over 100 players, ran the wishbone and beat my old high school 95-0!

[DAG 33,955]

It’s not about carries. It’s about having people ready when there time is called upon. When you are blowing out people, there is no reason to not substitute, to allow for your other backs to get in game experience . Also, if you primary freaking running back is tired or seems to have a nagging injury, do not run them to the ground. Substitute. This came out of KJ own mouth last year. He specifically said at times he should’ve just told the coaches to get a sub in. That way if something unfortunate does happen, you don’t have your pants down with the what do I do now face.

[aujeff11 6,243]

21 minutes ago, DAG said:

When you are blowing out people, there is no reason to not substitute, to allow for your other backs to get in game experience .

We already do this. 

24 minutes ago, DAG said:

That way if something unfortunate does happen, you don’t have your pants down with the what do I do now face.

We all agree with this assuming there are horses capable of being the next man up in waiting against elite competition. I’m not making that assumption. Gus and the staff sees our RBs way more than we do. 

 

[aujeff11 6,243]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/articles.mlive.com/lions/index.ssf/2018/07/first_day_in_pads_will_give_ke.amp

 

Did anybody ever see this negative slant with CAP? Tre? Derrick Henry? It’s funny it was a freak landing on tbe wrong shoulder that caused Kerryon’s injury and that caused his ypc to dip from 5.1 to 4.9, but crickets on that fact in the article. If Kerryon played well from start to finish there would be no forced perception shaping. One injury and all of a sudden the perception changes 

[Tiger1992 999]

52 minutes ago, gctiger said:

I was at the game and remember it well.   I think it was the 50th anniversary of JHS.  The Wasdens were our neighbors in Pensacola and I used to play pickup ball with Shane Wasden and his younger brother, Tommy.  Their Dad was a head coach at a local high school and one game he played over 100 players, ran the wishbone and beat my old high school 95-0!

I remember that game, I was a sophomore and in the student section. Auburn derailed Emmitt's Heisman hopes that day.