2019 4* RB Noah Cain (Penn St.)

[ellitor 33,062]

3 minutes ago, TigerFanAU said:

thank you. He was worked, yes, but that workload helped him get drafted and become a millionaire. That'd be my rebuttal to any negative talk in that regard.

As I stated yesterday I think it was explosive plays & not his workload that got him drafted.

[Beaker 2,457]

I am not going to be a "negative Nancy" here, but these competing recruiters are good at their jobs and I am sure they say things are also flat out lies also.  They could say things about Tre Mason having a short career and blaming it on his carries at Auburn, when we all know Tre has had A LOT of non football issues.  And so on....these recruiters are or can be pretty slimy.  

I had a Def Coord tell me honestly he hated recruiting b/c it was so slimy.  He said this right there in front of my son!  Unfort he was fired the next season...hard to stay on top and be clean.

[ellitor 33,062]

11 minutes ago, Beaker said:

I had a Def Coord tell me honestly he hated recruiting b/c it was so slimy.  He said this right there in front of my son!  Unfort he was fired the next season...hard to stay on top and be clean.

Could be why T-Rock hates it so much.

[keesler 5,923]

1 hour ago, TigerFanAU said:

That's fine. I've looked and don't see a thread title so I guess its buried in some random thread. Also, I've looked online and all I could find was KJ saying he was banged up. Nothing slanderous about Auburn or Gus, nor severe enough to miss on all Top 10 backs this cycle.

You may be right in your line of thinking, the misses may have absolutely nothing to do with what KJ said - he's making bank and that should entice every top 10 RB recruit.

Which leads to the question >>> Why is the staff missing on all Top 10 backs in this cycle, why have they missed in a few other recruiting cycles in the recent past?  Does the conference just have more cut throat recruiters gouging out AU's guts on the trail now?  Is the situation not severe at all, i.e. no big deal?  

[keesler 5,923]

59 minutes ago, Beaker said:

I am not going to be a "negative Nancy" here, but these competing recruiters are good at their jobs and I am sure they say things are also flat out lies also.  They could say things about Tre Mason having a short career and blaming it on his carries at Auburn, when we all know Tre has had A LOT of non football issues.  And so on....these recruiters are or can be pretty slimy.  

I had a Def Coord tell me honestly he hated recruiting b/c it was so slimy.  He said this right there in front of my son!  Unfort he was fired the next season...hard to stay on top and be clean.

Below is a portion of something I posted in another thread on here, and I think it applies to your logic as well.

------------------

When I view the current landscape of not only this conference, but the addition of Clemson to the immediate vicinity, I see rough waters for AU which gives me no comfort at all.

Auburn can NOT allow these heavy recruiters to diminish their standing in the recruiting wars.  These new HC's are brutal savages on the trail - and the days of fat Bert/brick builder Butch Jones/nice guy Richt/shark lover McElwain/lush Sumlin/old man Spurrier are officially OVER!

They've been replaced by a much higher caliber recruiting breed of HC's, guys that put a priority on pulling in talent.  

The challenge for Auburn right now is that they will have to go head to head everyday against several HC's from Saban's coaching tree, guys who cut their teeth under his recruiting process - those guys will be relentless. 

I want Auburn to match them and challenge everyone of them, strap on the gloves and maintain their position any way they have to....I just hope AU can hold up in a true street fight mentality and not walk away because we're the nice guy, the guys Gus faces today are Dirty.

[AUwent 3,747]

51 minutes ago, keesler said:

Below is a portion of something I posted in another thread on here, and I think it applies to your logic as well.

------------------

When I view the current landscape of not only this conference, but the addition of Clemson to the immediate vicinity, I see rough waters for AU which gives me no comfort at all.

Auburn can NOT allow these heavy recruiters to diminish their standing in the recruiting wars.  These new HC's are brutal savages on the trail - and the days of fat Bert/brick builder Butch Jones/nice guy Richt/shark lover McElwain/lush Sumlin/old man Spurrier are officially OVER!

They've been replaced by a much higher caliber recruiting breed of HC's, guys that put a priority on pulling in talent.  

The challenge for Auburn right now is that they will have to go head to head everyday against several HC's from Saban's coaching tree, guys who cut their teeth under his recruiting process - those guys will be relentless. 

I want Auburn to match them and challenge everyone of them, strap on the gloves and maintain their position any way they have to....I just hope AU can hold up in a true street fight mentality and not walk away because we're the nice guy, the guys Gus faces today are Dirty.

And honestly, I just don’t feel Gus is cut out to compete with those guys. Don’t forget that LSU is very likely making a coaching change soon, and I have a strong feeling they’ll tab Kiffin or Norvell. I’m thinking we also make a change in the next few years.

I could very easily be wrong of course. As bad as things seem for us now we’re ranked 15th, much higher than we were this time last year. And we finished many spots higher than we were at that time.

And I will give Gus credit. His first two years, defense was a MAJOR complaint. What do you know, he fixed it. Then in 2015-16, we had no serviceable QB. Now, we have three QBs I think we all would’ve killed to have two years ago. So he actually can make adjustments.

[Beaker 2,457]

35 minutes ago, keesler said:

Below is a portion of something I posted in another thread on here, and I think it applies to your logic as well.

------------------

When I view the current landscape of not only this conference, but the addition of Clemson to the immediate vicinity, I see rough waters for AU which gives me no comfort at all.

Auburn can NOT allow these heavy recruiters to diminish their standing in the recruiting wars.  These new HC's are brutal savages on the trail - and the days of fat Bert/brick builder Butch Jones/nice guy Richt/shark lover McElwain/lush Sumlin/old man Spurrier are officially OVER!

They've been replaced by a much higher caliber recruiting breed of HC's, guys that put a priority on pulling in talent.  

The challenge for Auburn right now is that they will have to go head to head everyday against several HC's from Saban's coaching tree, guys who cut their teeth under his recruiting process - those guys will be relentless. 

I want Auburn to match them and challenge everyone of them, strap on the gloves and maintain their position any way they have to....I just hope AU can hold up in a true street fight mentality and not walk away because we're the nice guy, the guys Gus faces today are Dirty.

Probably the best post of the week.

 The game is changing and if we don't adapt, we will farther behind.   FSU is a sleeping giant right now also. We have a year or two with Fisher gone, but probably not long.  Taggert can recruit also.   Tenn worries me a lot and I suspect people from Saban's tree talk and help each other.   Just human nature.   

We must expand our recruiting geographically and not do dumb things as coaches to give the enemy ammo during the recruiting battles (we certainly do this on the offensive side). 

[WDEKC 187]

I guess I'm confused about all the doom & gloom around recruiting. This is about where Auburn has always been. 2018 finished borderline top 10 in the country and 3rd in the SEC in recruiting. 2019 so far we have the 7/8th best national and 3rd best SEC avg recruit ranking.

[McLoofus 35,182]

19 minutes ago, WDEKC said:

I guess I'm confused about all the doom & gloom around recruiting. This is about where Auburn has always been. 2018 finished borderline top 10 in the country and 3rd in the SEC in recruiting. 2019 so far we have the 7/8th best national and 3rd best SEC avg recruit ranking.

There has been tons and tons of talk about how "special" this class will be. And not just from sunshine pumping Auburn fans. And we thought we had a great shot at a 5* CB who would have really put the class over the top and it didn't happen. And we didn't get great reports about some other guys. And we have absolutely nothing working at RB and the OL isn't looking awesome, particularly since our stud center who we thought is rock solid is possibly shopping himself to UT. 

Now... just looking at the committed guys and who else we think we have a good shot with, yeah, it's going to be a very good class. But suddenly it's looking like it might not be as good as we were led to believe and it will fall far behind the classes of our two main rivals. Again. 

So you're right. But that's the context. 

[keesler 5,923]

1 hour ago, WDEKC said:

I guess I'm confused about all the doom & gloom around recruiting. This is about where Auburn has always been. 2018 finished borderline top 10 in the country and 3rd in the SEC in recruiting. 2019 so far we have the 7/8th best national and 3rd best SEC avg recruit ranking.

Not that you responded to anyone in particular with this post, but I've spread no doom & gloom around AU's recruiting.  I've simply recognized that what Auburn has always done and has always been, will not longer be sufficient in the current recruiting environment in our own conference, let alone the region we recruit in now. 

What has always worked and the competition with which AU competes head to head for talent has just been ratcheted up about 6 notches with the addition of some heavy hitter, strong recruiting based Head Coaches.  For AU to stay in the rankings they've always been in will take some serious adjustment in our recruiting processes from this point forward.  Because there are no longer the same group of HC's we must compete head to head for talent.  

HC's that were old/lazy (Spurrier), nice (Richt), underachiever (Bielmia), cheesy/idiotic (Jones), obtuse (Sumlin), and overall unsuccessful as an SEC caliber HC have been replaced by some blood thirsty/head hunter HC's that will go to any limits to secure top shelf talent for their programs.  

Auburn has to be able to toe to toe with the new HC's and not lose any ground.....the job is now harder and will require a much stronger effort to secure the position Auburn has always been able to maintain.

[aujeff11 6,243]

4 hours ago, keesler said:

Below is a portion of something I posted in another thread on here, and I think it applies to your logic as well.

------------------

When I view the current landscape of not only this conference, but the addition of Clemson to the immediate vicinity, I see rough waters for AU which gives me no comfort at all.

Auburn can NOT allow these heavy recruiters to diminish their standing in the recruiting wars.  These new HC's are brutal savages on the trail - and the days of fat Bert/brick builder Butch Jones/nice guy Richt/shark lover McElwain/lush Sumlin/old man Spurrier are officially OVER!

They've been replaced by a much higher caliber recruiting breed of HC's, guys that put a priority on pulling in talent.  

The challenge for Auburn right now is that they will have to go head to head everyday against several HC's from Saban's coaching tree, guys who cut their teeth under his recruiting process - those guys will be relentless. 

I want Auburn to match them and challenge everyone of them, strap on the gloves and maintain their position any way they have to....I just hope AU can hold up in a true street fight mentality and not walk away because we're the nice guy, the guys Gus faces today are Dirty.

Gus is too nice. We don’t negative recruit other opponents (so I’ve heard) and apparently we don’t dispute the exaggerated points of negative recruiting that are carried out against us as well.

Having a coach that’s too nice isn’t the worst scenario, but it makes you wonder if the grass is greener.

[AlaskanFAN 1,665]

Maybe we just need to hire an assistant from the Saban coaching tree to see what all the hubaloo is all about, then Gus knows how to counter attack. You have to know your enemy. 

Heck even during the off-season, bring in a Saban disciple from another conference and pick his brain. Coaches do that all the time. 

Just a thought

[DAG 33,955]

7 hours ago, AUwent said:

And honestly, I just don’t feel Gus is cut out to compete with those guys. Don’t forget that LSU is very likely making a coaching change soon, and I have a strong feeling they’ll tab Kiffin or Norvell. I’m thinking we also make a change in the next few years.

I could very easily be wrong of course. As bad as things seem for us now we’re ranked 15th, much higher than we were this time last year. And we finished many spots higher than we were at that time.

And I will give Gus credit. His first two years, defense was a MAJOR complaint. What do you know, he fixed it. Then in 2015-16, we had no serviceable QB. Now, we have three QBs I think we all would’ve killed to have two years ago. So he actually can make adjustments.

Funny how when things hit the fan , change magically happens huh? Now let’s be proactive and not reactive. That should be the new motto.

[Mikey 16,545]

22 hours ago, WarDamnEagleWDE said:

The KJ comments are hurting us with these type backs we get every year. That is the difference now.  Can't tell you one back we lead for in our 10 ten right now. 

My point is, if one random injury to one RB can kill our recruiting at the position, we've got the wrong recruiters. There will always be some negative angle for opponents to emphasize. We should be able to counter effectively.

[McLoofus 35,182]

23 minutes ago, Mikey said:

My point is, if one random injury to one RB can kill our recruiting at the position, we've got the wrong recruiters. There will always be some negative angle for opponents to emphasize. We should be able to counter effectively.

And nobody is taking your point seriously because it is wildly inaccurate. 

[WaynesAUworld 179]

14 hours ago, AlaskanFAN said:

Maybe we just need to hire an assistant from the Saban coaching tree to see what all the hubaloo is all about, then Gus knows how to counter attack. You have to know your enemy. 

Heck even during the off-season, bring in a Saban disciple from another conference and pick his brain. Coaches do that all the time. 

Just a thought

Isn't Steele from that tree?

[aujeff11 6,243]

“Johnson said he injured the shoulder by reaching out for the end zone “with the wrong arm” on a third-down dive near the end zone in the third quarter Saturday.”

Without this non-contact and self-inflicted injury late into game, and lets assume he’s 90 percent healthy in tbe next UGA game, there is no “ran into the ground” perception. Hadn’t been one since Gus became HC

 Diving into the end zone is actually very dangerous but yet Gus is getting this blame. Why?

[Barnacle 9,064]

3 minutes ago, aujeff11 said:

“Johnson said he injured the shoulder by reaching out for the end zone “with the wrong arm” on a third-down dive near the end zone in the third quarter Saturday.”

Without this non-contact and self-inflicted injury late into game, and lets assume he’s 90 percent healthy in tbe next UGA game, there is no “ran into the ground” perception. Hadn’t been one since Gus became HC

 Diving into the end zone is actually very dangerous but yet Gus is getting this blame. Why?

I think the perception would persist, but not to the extent that it does now. I would still be critical of Gus' use of Kerryon - at least I was before the injury happened. Injury likely makes a difference on the recruiting trail, I would think.

[triangletiger 1,599]

30 minutes ago, WaynesAUworld said:

Isn't Steele from that tree?

Not exactly.  Steele has been an assistant with a lot of good coaches.  Tom Osborne is one who comes to mind.  Unlike Kirby Smart and others, he didn't 'cut his teeth' as an assistant for Saban.  However, he probably has insight into how Saban handles recruiting.

[triangletiger 1,599]

24 minutes ago, Barnacle said:

I think the perception would persist, but not to the extent that it does now. I would still be critical of Gus' use of Kerryon - at least I was before the injury happened. Injury likely makes a difference on the recruiting trail, I would think.

I feel the same way.  Kerryon getting injured is not the concern.  The concern is Gus' seeming inability to make contingency plans.  He doesn't seem to take advantage of game situations that would allow backups to get game experience and better prepare them for if and when they are needed in the future.  It seems that there were opportunities earlier in the season when we were winning and could have allowed the backups to get more reps and allow the starters to rest.  It's the same complaint that we had in the previous season at the QB position.  Sean White gets hurt at the end of the season and Gus doesn't seem to have considered that that was a possibility and taken steps to prepare for that. If JF III had gotten more reps earlier in the season, would things have been different when White got hurt?    

[McLoofus 35,182]

Exactly. Not sure who's saying that it's Gus's fault that KJ got injured against bama or that that's the primary focus of the negative recruiting. That sounds like an intentional misinterpretation by Mikey to deflect criticism of Gus's coaching. 

(Of course, it's not crazy to suggest that a tired player is more susceptible to careless or lazy decisions, but that's not going to hold up in a courtroom so no need to fixate on it here.)

[aujeff11 6,243]

11 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Exactly. Not sure who's saying that it's Gus's fault that KJ got injured against bama or that that's the primary focus of the negative recruiting

What does “Gus drove KJ into the ground” mean? Does words not have meaning? 

 

59 minutes ago, Barnacle said:

think the perception would persist, but not to the extent that it does now. I would still be critical of Gus' use of Kerryon - at least I was before the injury happened. Injury likely makes a difference on the recruiting trail, I would think.

Fair enough, I just don’t remember this perception with our other workhorses like Tre, and CAP.

[toddc 13,194]

One thing that kept bugging me about the seccg and everyone saying kmart should have started,or played more because he was completely healthy, was maybe CGM had his reasons. So I started looking for articles about kmarts status and found this article.

Auburn sophomore RB Kam Martin was forced out of Saturday's game against Alabama in the fourth quarter due to an apparent ankle injury.

Martin came up limping midway through the fourth quarter just one play after Kerryon Johnson left with an arm/shoulder injury. He should be considered questionable to return. If there's a slight upside to these injury concerns, Auburn is likely only going to have one or two more offensive possessions before contest's end barring overtime. We'll pass along updates as to Martin's availability moving forward as updates become available.

 

This changes the debate a little for me! Maybe, just maybe, he wasn’t healthy enough to play in that game!????

[McLoofus 35,182]

Now, there *is* a conversation about running them into the ground, but I don't perceive that as being about a single injury. It's about taking years off careers. 

It wasn't really about a single injury when people questioned how Tampa Bay (don't remember the coach) ran Cadillac Williams into the ground, or when Spurrier ran Lattimore into the ground. 

Yes, there are other teams that do it. The most notable among them have been sending guys like Saquon Barkley and Derrick Henry to the NFL in the first round. But if that strategy bites them, then their fanbases will question them, too. (bammers STILL blame Mike Shula for ending Tyrone Prothro's career.) This isn't an "Auburn fans r dumb" situation, any more than it has been when we've questioned Gus's other failures. 

Also, the coaches using this line of thinking in their recruiting against us are probably able to say that they spread the carries around. smart is the obvious example. Mullen can probably say it. saban probably doesn't use that strategy. Pruitt will be able to because there's no evidence how he'll use his RBs. 

And Auburn fans didn't invent the notion that NFL teams factor in how many carries a guy has coming out of college. They will take a chance on elite guys like Henry or Barkley or Gurley, but on just-very-very-good guys like we tend to produce? Yeah, it's going to be part of the discussion in draft rooms. 

Gus had very good luck with injuries before 2016. He should have learned his lesson then, but he didn't. Maybe now he has. 

[DAG 33,955]

19 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Exactly. Not sure who's saying that it's Gus's fault that KJ got injured against bama or that that's the primary focus of the negative recruiting. That sounds like an intentional misinterpretation by Mikey to deflect criticism of Gus's coaching. 

(Of course, it's not crazy to suggest that a tired player is more susceptible to careless or lazy decisions, but that's not going to hold up in a courtroom so no need to fixate on it here.)

That’s my biggest beef. If a player is dog tired sub him out. There were some plays KJ was so tired he wasn’t even trying to cut anymore leaving him vulnerable to get tattooed.