Trump Lawyer Arranged $130K Hush Money to Keep Porn Star Quiet

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

1 hour ago, homersapien said:

We're suppose to be happy with Trump establishing the new "normal"??  

Conservatives were (rightly) outraged at Bill's behavior, but Trump has redefined the bar to non-existent.   That should be of concern to everyone, regardless of their political inclination.

I’m sure you were very outraged with Bill’s behavior too, weren’t you? 

Good grief. You act like Trump hooked up with a 19 year old in the Oval Office... and then lied under oath when questioned about it. Step off the gas brother Homer. His behavior could be much worse. 

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

11 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

Yes, President Trump, any past president, or any man for that matter. You get it Brad?  

Oh I get it.  I just find it baffling that people like yourself who seem to hold high moral character as something we should cherish still support this guy.  But whatever.  You're the one who has look in the mirror every night.

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

6 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

Oh I get it.  I just find it baffling that people like yourself who seem to hold high moral character as something we should cherish still support this guy.  But whatever.  You're the one who has look in the mirror every night.

So, because Salty supports Trump's presidency, he necessarily supports Trump's personal failures as well? 

When I support a bill, do I also support the personal actions (good and bad) of every legislature who voted in favor of the bill? 

 

[AUDub 11,132]

Man, the hypocrisy on display in this thread. Welcome to the desert...of the real. 

[SaltyTiger 7,766]

Just now, Brad_ATX said:

Oh I get it.  I just find it baffling that people like yourself who seem to hold high moral character as something we should cherish still support this guy.  But whatever.  You're the one who has look in the mirror every night.

Original Brad. Perhaps it is not that I support him as much as I detest the reaction a bunch of whiners and hypocrites have had to his election.  

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

19 minutes ago, NolaAuTiger said:

I don’t get your obsession with this perceived Christian crusade of rationalizing Trump’s sin - as if that’s the only plausible explanation for Christian votes casted for Trump. Maybe you watch too much Daystar television, or maybe you should surround yourself with different Christians?

I know your go-to is “they voted for Trump,” but come on. You’ve beat that horse to death.

 

So here's my perspective as a non-religious guy.  For years, conservative Christians hace preached the importance of family values and morality in government.  Then, in 2015 (because it started then), many of those people supported and subsequently voted in a direct opposite manner from what they have vociferously said for a long time.  So that leads me to one of two conclusions:

1)  they're hypocrites, or

2) family values were really never a big deal in politics to them at all

Look, maybe they did see voting for Trump as a better option than Hillary.  I can buy that from a judicial and policy level.  But I can't buy it completely because there was ample opportunity for those Christians to vote for another Republican in the primary.  Yet the numbers of evangelicals that I personally know and big names who came out and backed this man from the beginning lead me to believe that morality was never important to their cause.

I just wish these folks were more honest with themselves about it.

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

2 minutes ago, NolaAuTiger said:

So, because Salty supports Trump's presidency, he necessarily supports Trump's personal failures as well? 

When I support a bill, do I also support the personal actions (good and bad) of every legislature who voted in favor of the bill? 

 

Read what I just posted.

[SaltyTiger 7,766]

Just now, Brad_ATX said:

So here's my perspective as a non-religious guy.  For years, conservative Christians hace preached the importance of family values and morality in government.  Then, in 2015 (because it started then), many of those people voted in a direct opposite manner from what they have vociferously said for a long time.  So that leads me to one of two conclusions:

1)  they're hypocrites, or

2) family values were really never a big deal in politics to them at all

Look, maybe they did see voting for Trump as a better option than Hillary.  I can buy that from a judicial and policy level.  But I can't buy it completely because there was ample opportunity for those Christians to vote for another Republican in the primary.  Yet the numbers of evangelicals that I personally know and big names who biblically came out and backed this man from the beginning lead me to believe that morality was never important to their cause.

I just wish these folks were more honest with themselves about it.

What is a non-religious guy?

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

4 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

What is a non-religious guy?

I'm agnostic.  There may be a higher power and there may not be.  I have no idea and thus I choose not to worship.  And I hold no ill will for those that do worship.

Scholarship has taught me that many religions have come and gone throughout the millennia and that our big religions today are often rooted in older ones from many years before (Christianity, Judaism, and Islam especially).  I find religion and their teachings interesting, but that's all.  

[alexava 6,973]

I just wish Clinton supporters had known the trash on Reagan. The last 20 years would have been easier to defend. 

[SaltyTiger 7,766]

1 minute ago, Brad_ATX said:

I'm agnostic.  There may be a higher power and there may not be.  I have no idea and thus, I choose not to worship.  And I hold no ill will for those that do worship.

Scholarship has taught me that many religions have come and gone throughout the millennia and that our big religions today are often rooted in older ones from many years before (Christianity, Judaism, and Islam especially).  I find religion and their teachings interesting, but that's all.  

Then you do understand the difference in religion and Christianity I suppose?  

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

1 minute ago, SaltyTiger said:

Then you do understand the difference in religion and Christianity I suppose?  

I do in the sense you're trying to,use it.  But Christianity itself is considered a religion.  That's really not up for debate.  How one worships or identifies himself/herself within said religion is a different conversation.

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

11 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

So here's my perspective as a non-religious guy.  For years, conservative Christians hace preached the importance of family values and morality in government.  Then, in 2015 (because it started then), many of those people supported and subsequently voted in a direct opposite manner from what they have vociferously said for a long time.  So that leads me to one of two conclusions:

1)  they're hypocrites, or

2) family values were really never a big deal in politics to them at all

Look, maybe they did see voting for Trump as a better option than Hillary.  I can buy that from a judicial and policy level.  But I can't buy it completely because there was ample opportunity for those Christians to vote for another Republican in the primary.  Yet the numbers of evangelicals that I personally know and big names who came out and backed this man from the beginning lead me to believe that morality was never important to their cause.

I just wish these folks were more honest with themselves about it.

Interesting. Because I would assert that the importance of family values and morality in government is not a uniquely Christian notion. In fact, I would think that Republicans and Democrats alike would at least try to hold that their respective sides have traditionally held such views.

https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/no-the-majority-of-american-evangelicals-did-not-vote-for-trump/

Also, and more importantly, IMO, the majority of American Evangelicals did not vote for Trump. If you care to read, the article above is fantastic. 

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

18 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

Original Brad. Perhaps it is not that I support him as much as I detest the reaction a bunch of whiners and hypocrites have had to his election.  

You support his Presidency and I do as well. That doesn't equate to a celebration of his bad acts. Why people can't see past that is truly baffling. 

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

10 minutes ago, NolaAuTiger said:

Interesting. Because I would assert that the importance of family values and morality in government is not a uniquely Christian notion. In fact, I would think that Republicans and Democrats alike would at least try to hold that their respective sides have traditionally held such views.

https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/no-the-majority-of-american-evangelicals-did-not-vote-for-trump/

Also, and more importantly, IMO, the majority of American Evangelicals did not vote for Trump. If you care to read, the article above is fantastic. 

It's an interesting read, and the point regarding white evangelicals versus all is taken, but also consider the source.  Also, from an outside perspective, I think you hear Christians and white evangelicals lumped together often as interchangeable because that group tends to be the loudest when it comes to political or cultural stances.

And I agree that morality isnt a uniquely Christian concept.  But you don't see other groups holding up that argument with such vigor at all times, only to completely abandon it when push comes to shove.  In fact, liberal groups are actually putting pressure on men and women with the current #metoo movement with equal disdain (see: California), even within their own party.  Yet you aren't seeing that from conservatives.

I'm cool if we as a country decide its all about policy, but conservatives don't get to move those goal posts now that it suits them.

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

3 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

It's an interesting read, and the point regarding white evangelicals versus all is taken, but also consider the source.  Also, from an outside perspective, I think you hear Christians and white evangelicals lumped together often as interchangeable because that group tends to be the loudest when it comes to political or cultural stances.

I hear you. I just don't think "majority of evangelical Christians voted for Trump" is objectively true. Partly because polls determine "evangelical Christian" based on a checkmark. 

I'll also add that the vast majority of TV preachers are "phony." My pastor certainly doesn't rationalize sin, and for that matter I would say that no Christian church rationalizes sin. If they do, then it's not a Christian church. The dogmatics of the Christian faith haven't changed. 

Christianity isn't about moral perfection. It's about sinners in need of a Savior. I know this might sound foolish or get an eye roll, but that's the central message of the Bible. It's not about moral perfection at all. Sorry, not meaning to get too theological.   

I support Trump's presidency and I abhor sin. If that leads one to deem me a hypocrite, then so be it.

I didn't vote for Trump in the primaries. My faith does inform my vote, but more towards the policies of the candidates rather than the specific candidate himself (or "herself" for political correctness purposes). 

[Grumps 3,693]

8 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

Well, it would be nice if more people would just admit that's what he is and they really don't give a s*** about personal character or behavior befitting a leader.  But we still have Christians running around the talking head shows on TV trying to minimize or rationalize what he says or does.  It would actually be refreshing if they'd just say, "I honestly don't give a crap if he's gangbanging hookers every weekend as long as he gives me conservative SCOTUS justices."

I admit he's got very little character, but that doesn't mean that I don't care about personal character or want the POTUS to have behavior befitting a leader. I DON'T know of recent behavior as bad as his behavior from several years ago. Also, I still think he was a better choice than was Mrs. Clinton.

[ShocksMyBrain 9,362]

2 minutes ago, Grumps said:

I admit he's got very little character, but that doesn't mean that I don't care about personal character or want the POTUS to have behavior befitting a leader. I DON'T know of recent behavior as bad as his behavior from several years ago. Also, I still think he was a better choice than was Mrs. Clinton.

I’ve always appreciated your level-headedness. Presuming you voted for Trump, would you have voted for him if you had prior knowledge of his dealings with this particular porn star? Obviously we had “grab her by the *****” on video prior to the election, and that didn’t stop some. 

Not singling you out here, but I find this wild hypocrisy by some here(and elsewhere)in making excuses for his disgusting behavior pretty disturbing. 

I just want to know where the line in the sand is.

 

[ShocksMyBrain 9,362]

1 hour ago, NolaAuTiger said:

I’m sure you were very outraged with Bill’s behavior too, weren’t you? 

Good grief. You act like Trump hooked up with a 19 year old in the Oval Office... and then lied under oath when questioned about it. Step off the gas brother Homer. His behavior could be much worse.

That’s most of the problem with today’s politics. He did [this], but at least he didn’t do [THIS]. 

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

6 minutes ago, ShocksMyBrain said:

That’s most of the problem with today’s politics. He did [this], but at least he didn’t do [THIS]. 

Homer says Trump “redefined the bar.” As if the man has done something unprecedentedly egregious. History is relevant to his comment. 

Cheating on wife = not good

Cheating on wife in Oval Office = not good

[homersapien 11,354]

10 hours ago, NolaAuTiger said:

Homer says Trump “redefined the bar.” As if the man has done something unprecedentedly egregious. History is relevant to his comment. 

Cheating on wife = not good

Cheating on wife in Oval Office = not good

Nice try, but this goes way past cheating on your wife - which pretty much every president has done except for maybe Carter.

I'm talking basic human decency and self-awareness.

For all his faults, Clinton would never have mocked a physically disable person (for example).  It wouldn't have even occurred to him. Trump has the emotional maturity of a child.

Yet apparently, that has become the new benchmark for the president.

[DKW 86 7,413]

1) I Think that most FUNDIES supported Trump IN COMPLETE DENIAL of who he was. During the Election, I got plenty from Church Members and Staff from churches I had attended years before. They had either magically just Denied Who and What he was for 30 years OR (Worse in my opinion) just Accepted that he had had some epiphanal change during the campaign. Trump's essence is being a Run-of-the-Mill Millionaire/Billionaire playboy that has the morals of an alleycat and the Business Ethics of the Mafia.

2) I really do not think it mattered to most of his voters. They had grown so weary of being lectured by Elitists in this country that they were going to stage a revolt for anyone that pissed the Elitists off. That's how you get very good people like Rubio and Kasich not even moving the dial for reaction in some states.

3) This is on the other side too. Some, as in not many, of Trumps Supporters, are full blown racists etc, like we all saw in Charlottesville. That does not mean that every single one of his supporters is that same way. This is just blind dogma to the totally brain dead in the Democrat Party. They have totally accepted that because they hate Trump, that everything they hate is....to be found in his supporters, whether that is provable or not. Truth: Some of his supporters are everything advertised. Also Truth, many many of his supporters are just tired of being treated like trash by the PTB in DC. They want someone that at least listens to them in DC. 

4) We are so polarized in this country that both parties blindly loyal Sierra Foxtrots CAN, WILL, AND OFTEN DO SUPPORT the exact opposite of what they profess to believe. A) Some Liberals in their blind loyalty to the party have Blindly Supported Misogynistic Bastards such as Ted Kennedy, Harvey Weinstein, Bill Clinton, etc. Read about Lolita Island and you will find that BOTH Parties are filled with these Creeps. B ) The Family Values Voters really do not care about Family Values. They have supported many candidates that have horrible track records as Family Values Voters. Trump is just the latest and by far Greatest Example. I had Trump Voters tell me during the Election that he was against Abortion. Trump has loudly and openly supported Abortion for 30 years. To a Family Values Voter, you have to know that Abortion is supposed to be a "Litmus Test" for them. It isnt. Look at Jones vs Moore. Most Moore supporters would never support Jones because he was Mildly Pro-Abortion. The Problem for the Thinking Folks is that 30 Years of the Republican Party Talking about being Pro-Life and Pro-Balanced Budget has gotten us what exactly? NOTHING! There hasnt been one major effort to forward either idea in 30 years. It is just all talk.

Abortion, Balanced Budget, and Gun Rights: for all the caterwauling for the last 30-40 years, we have actually done just about nothing on these three issues. It is just Recycled Hot Button Money Raising Issues that they ply us with over and over so they can stay in power. We havent had any REAL, WELL FUNDED, ACTUAL LEGISLATED PROPOSALS by either party to change the National Position on either of these three issues again in 30-40 years. Gun Control, may be about to Modestly Change for the Better.

[Strychnine 1,802]

9 hours ago, AUDub said:

Man, the hypocrisy on display in this thread. Welcome to the desert...of the real. 

 

But do you know Kung fu?

[TitanTiger 20,471]

10 hours ago, NolaAuTiger said:

I don’t get your obsession with this perceived Christian crusade of rationalizing Trump’s sin- as if that’s the only plausible explanation for Christian votes casted for Trump. 

I don't assume that's the only reason every Christian cast a vote for Trump.  That's part of the reason you don't understand my "obsession."

I'm focusing on a segment of Christian Trump voters who didn't just walk into a voting booth holding their nose and voted for what they believed was the "least terrible option."  I might disagree with them, but I can at least understand that.  I'm talking about a prominent, vocal set of Christian Trump voters who not only voted for him, they vehemently defend him at practically every turn.  Oh, they'll couch it carefully to be sure their verbiage doesn't "condone sin," but they make every effort to redirect focus away from it, minimize how bad it is, or outright deny that it even happened.  In doing so, most of these same people show their hypocrisy compared to how they have spoken in the past on political leaders and the personal lives.  They also have greatly damaged the witness of Christianity in this country and beyond.  If you think this isn't the case, you're delusional and you should heed your own advice above in a different direction and spend some more time with people outside the Christian sphere and find out just how much this enthusiastic support of a man like Trump has repelled people from the church and the Gospel. 

I'm over a subset of Christians in this country who have so entangled their faith and their political beliefs that they have consciously or unconsciously come to believe (and unfortunately give off the same impression to others) that they are one and the same.  I suppose in some way it's not even mostly about the Christian Trump cheerleaders anymore (though I'd love for them to wake up to the hypocrisy) as it is about all those who aren't Christians at all who watch this spectacle and get a grossly distorted view of Christianity.  I don't want them to think that all evangelical Christians think like that.  I want them to be able to see that you can be an orthodox believer and not march lockstep with the Trumpists, the Tea Party or the Republican Establishment.  That as much as our faith unavoidably impacts our politics, some of us at least have our limits as to who we'll get in bed with just to further our political aims.  I'm just one guy and I don't purport to be anything close to perfect or believe my sphere of influence is that large in the grand scheme of things, but that's my motivation.  I want to call some to step back from the borderline idolatry they've allowed their politics to become and I want to demonstrate to others that not everyone who is a conservative Christian is like that.

Agree or disagree; it matters not to me.  But those are my major reasons for harping on it.  And I will continue to harp on it as long as I perceive it to be a continuing problem.

 

[TitanTiger 20,471]

10 hours ago, Brad_ATX said:

So here's my perspective as a non-religious guy.  For years, conservative Christians hace preached the importance of family values and morality in government.  Then, in 2015 (because it started then), many of those people supported and subsequently voted in a direct opposite manner from what they have vociferously said for a long time.  So that leads me to one of two conclusions:

1)  they're hypocrites, or

2) family values were really never a big deal in politics to them at all

Look, maybe they did see voting for Trump as a better option than Hillary.  I can buy that from a judicial and policy level.  But I can't buy it completely because there was ample opportunity for those Christians to vote for another Republican in the primary.  Yet the numbers of evangelicals that I personally know and big names who came out and backed this man from the beginning lead me to believe that morality was never important to their cause.

I just wish these folks were more honest with themselves about it.

Thank you.  You encapsulated that perfectly.