2019 O Line Recruiting

[bigbird 60,368]

9 minutes ago, Mikey said:

I counted 17 scholarship OL players listed on a recent depth chart published by ITAT. That's three deep plus two for five positions. How many is enough to create an incentive to push?

How many were OT?  It also depends on the quality of the numbers.  How many do you think pushed Tega, Horton, or   Harrell this year?  At the beginning of the year when Horton was routinely lost or playing from his back, why do you think he stayed in the starting line up?

 

We have much more depth for 2 on field positions at LB than we do for 5 positions for the OL but you continually say the same about the LB. Why is it that way for LBs but not OL?

[Mikey 16,550]

1 minute ago, bigbird said:

How many were OT?  It also depends on the quality of the numbers.  How many do you think pushed Tega, Horton, or   Harrell this year?  At the beginning of the year when Horton was routinely lost or playing from his back, why do you think he stayed in the starting line up?

 

We have much more depth for 2 on field positions at LB than we do for 5 positions for the OL but you continually say the same about the LB. Why is it that way for LBs but not OL?

We have three LB positions. At times in every game three are out there. Sometimes it is only two but there are three positions. So, to be equal to the 3.4 OL players per position we'd need 10.2 LB's. Nine LB' are listed and that includes the injured McBryde.   Now, quality on the OL is a different matter. That's a problem. I don't agree that depth itself is a problem because with 17 for 5 positions there's plenty of depth.

[kd4au 1,145]

26 minutes ago, Mikey said:

Most times when we have a guy as a backup plan our slow-playing fails and he signs elsewhere. Example is Goss last year. Maybe some of those guy's commitments should be accepted and a slot or two saved for the super prospects? In other words, sign good, solid prospects that we can get and use the super guys as backup lans? That's just spitballing on my part but holding out for the super prospects hasn't been working for us.

You may be on to something here, but it's still not just luck. If they are slow playing kids, then that is not luck when you don't sign any one on signing day. Like I said they need to work harder or smarter, but something needs to change in our o-line recruiting.

[lala 327]

1 hour ago, bigbird said:

That is one of the biggest things we need on OL. There is no incentive to to push or threat to be passed if they don't.  Numbers are so low that they are almost guaranteed a position no matter if earned or able.

I don’t believe you have to get all 5/4 star and we cannot anyway.... but get a lot of 3 star w/ potential and make them push each other. The ones that don’t  make it will eventually leave and you can keep the pressure on everyone to excel.   The lineman in NFL are not all 5 star

Plus we get the occasional top end and that works out just fine.   

Edited December 22, 2018 by lala

[bigbird 60,368]

12 minutes ago, Mikey said:

We have three LB positions. At times in every game three are out there. Sometimes it is only two but there are three positions. So, to be equal to the 3.4 OL players per position we'd need 10.2 LB's. Nine LB' are listed and that includes the injured McBryde.   

~ 85-90% of the time we are in a 4-2-5.

Also, you love to talk about the attrition rate at LB. Well, it seems to be a much higher rate for the OL, Especially at AU. 

[kd4au 1,145]

10 minutes ago, Mikey said:

with 17 for 5 positions there's plenty of depth

That maybe enough, but part of the problem is distribution. We only signed two last year I think and five the year before but two of those were grad transfers, it's hard to build good depth that way. I think we should be signing 4-5 every year and not be constantly having to go the juco and grad transfer route.

[Mikey 16,550]

21 hours ago, bigbird said:

~ 85-90% of the time we are in a 4-2-5.

Also, you love to talk about the attrition rate at LB. Well, it seems to be a much higher rate for the OL, Especially at AU. 

Why you want to turn this into a LB discussion I don't know but since you do:

First off, about that "two linebacker" situation you keep mentioning: All three starting LB's  (Davis, Atkinson and D. Williams) have a different skill set. Even when only two are on the field, they are subbed in depending on down and distance. That's not something that is done on the OL. There are three 1st team LB's, five 1st team OL.

Of our nine LB's, four will have played their last game after the Music City Bowl. That leaves us with five returners and ONE signee. Two per position, which is much, much fewer players than on OL. Are the LB's higher quality players than the current OL? Let's hope so but number-wise, the OL is very well stocked compared to LB.

Quality on the OL may be a problem. With 17 players for five positions, depth is not.

[fredst 9,064]

@bigbird, why the hell would you start talking about LBs in a random thread? What is wrong with you? Who does that?

[bigbird 60,368]

7 minutes ago, fredst said:

@bigbird, why the hell would you start talking about LBs in a random thread? What is wrong with you? Who does that?

He doesn't seem to pay attention to anything else. I was trying to reach some level of comprehension. Remember when he said safety depth wasn't an issue when we had two on the roster?

[bigbird 60,368]

41 minutes ago, Mikey said:

Why you want to turn this into a LB discussion I don't know but since you do:

First off, about that "two linebacker" situation you keep mentioning: All three starting LB's  (Davis, Atkinson and D. Williams) have a different skill set. Even when only two are on the field, they are subbed in depending on down and distance. That's not something that is done on the OL. There are three 1st team LB's, five 1st team OL.

Of our nine LB's, four will have played their last game after the Music City Bowl. That leaves us with five returners and ONE signee. Two per position, which is much, much fewer players than on OL. Are the LB's higher quality players than the current OL? Let's hope so but number-wise, the OL is very well stocked compared to LB.

Quality on the OL may be a problem. With 17 players for five positions, depth is not.

Well, no s***...

Guess what a center doesn't have the same skill set as an OT, A guard doesn't have the same skill set as an OT, and an OT doesn't have the same skill set as a C.

I'll put it terms that you seems to grasp. If we have 12 MLB and 2 OLB do we have good depth at LB?

 

How many OT have we signed in the last 5 classes? How many OT do we have remaining? How many have actually contributed?

[fredst 9,064]

14 minutes ago, bigbird said:

He doesn't seem to pay attention to anything else. I was trying to reach some level of comprehension. Remember when he said safety depth wasn't an issue when we had two on the roster?

Now you’ve gone and done it. Here it comes....

[bigbird 60,368]

Last 5 years of OL recruiting. 

 

2014:

Braden Smith- G

Xavier Dampier- C

 

2015:

Harrell - G

Carr - G

Kim - C

Sharp - OT

Horton - G

Tega - SDE

 

2016:

Hamm - OT

Sammons - DT

Manning - DT

 

2017:

Ashley - OT

Brahms - C

Troxell - OT

 

2018:

Irvin - C

Stutts - OG

 

2019:

Jones - OG

Osborne - OG

?

 

 

C - 3 (X, Kim, Brahms)

G - 9 (Braden, Harrell, Carr, Horton, Sammons, Irvin, Stutts, Jones, Osborne)

T - 6 (Sharp, Tega, Hamm, Sammons, Ashley, Troxell)

Signed Total - 18

 

Left team - As of now 4 (Braden, X, Carr, Ashley(may make it back ))

 

Remaining Total -14

 

OT contributors so far through their careers-

Tega (DL, zero HS experience) - 1 1/2 years

Sharp (Some mop up snaps, zero starts)

Hamm (Returning from cancer, zero starts

Sammons (Some mop up snaps, zero starts)

Troxell (Back up, Some PT)

 

Transfers:

Golson

James

Dunn

Driscoll

Bell

4 of the 5 transfers were all significant starters for us. Which indicates that our OL recruiting and development has been beyond poor.

For 2019, if Tega leaves, that leaves 5 OT (Driscoll, Sharp, Troxell, Sammons, and Hamm)...6 if Ashley returns.  Combined they would have 12-15 starts between them. Yep our OL depth is awesome! Nothing to see, move along...

[AuMarine 1,372]

Are we having trouble with player development or we are not recruiting the right player or both? Without a strong offensive line, the offense will continue to struggle. Changes need to be made. 

[bigbird 60,368]

I believe it is more on the development side, but the recruiting side has been unbalanced and had really big misses

[kd4au 1,145]

1 hour ago, bigbird said:

2015:



Harrell - G

Carr - G

Kim - C

Sharp - OT

Horton - G

Tega - SDE

Didn't JB recruit this group? If so 4 out of the 6 started this year. And people say JB can't recruit. He just needs to get the Hand out of them.

[Mikey 16,550]

12 hours ago, bigbird said:

Well, no s***...

Guess what a center doesn't have the same skill set as an OT, A guard doesn't have the same skill set as an OT, and an OT doesn't have the same skill set as a C. No, but we have plenty at each position. They aren't normally moved around.

I'll put it terms that you seems to grasp. If we have 12 MLB and 2 OLB do we have good depth at LB? If we have three to four deep at each position like we have on the OL, then yes

How many OT have we signed in the last 5 classes? How many OT do we have remaining? 8 How many have actually contributed? enough to field a team

We have two centers who don't have to have different skill sets. Could probably use an extra there. 

We have four left guards that don't have to have different skill sets so depth there is fine.

We have four right guards that don't have to have different skill sets so depth there is fine.

We have four left tackles that don't require different skill sets, so depth there is fine.

We have three right tackles that don't need different skill sets. Maybe a little thinner, but if a guy isn't pushed by competition from a three deep he's not going to be pushed by a four deep.

Of the above 17 players, there is only one senior and he doesn't start.

Your thought that we don't have enough depth to provide competition and make guys push themselves doesn't hold up to the raw numbers. You can say the quality isn't there, you can say the development hasn't been adequate, but there are plenty of warm bodies.

[bigbird 60,368]

9 hours ago, Mikey said:

Your thought that we don't have enough depth to provide competition and make guys push themselves doesn't hold up to the raw numbers. You can say the quality isn't there, you can say the development hasn't been adequate, but there are plenty of warm bodies.

If the quality of the ones behind  isn't there, then there is no way that the starters will be pushed. Marshmallows don't sharpen iron very well.

[Gowebb11 9,309]

21 hours ago, bigbird said:

Last 5 years of OL recruiting. 

 

The year by year rundown you provided is frightening in terms of our staff’s ability to think strategically. Recruiting numbers should be planned out at least 2 years in advance but it’s like our staff plans only for the here and now. Thus, over reliance on grad transfers. If I were ADAG, I would hold a meeting with our current coaching staff and point stuff like this out. It is part of the ‘CEO’stuff that Gus dislikes so much, but it’s basic management 101. 

Edited December 24, 2018 by Gowebb11

[steeleagle 2,945]

1 hour ago, Gowebb11 said:

The year by year rundown you provided is frightening in terms of our staff’s ability to think strategically. Recruiting numbers should be planned out at least 2 years in advance but it’s like our staff plans only for the here and now. Thus, over reliance on grad transfers. If I were ADAG, I would hold a meeting with our current coaching staff and point stuff like this out. It is part of the ‘CEO’stuff that Gus dislikes so much, but it’s basic management 101. 

I agree. Teams go the transfer route for 2 reasons.

1. They don't have the numbers for depth

2. They don't have quality starters, so they want an immediate opportunity for a veteran quality OL.

Auburn under Malzahn has done this in 2 areas, QB and OL, and their reasoning is similar. Their recruiting in those 2 areas is lacking quality SEC starters.

That shows their recruiting and/or Development hasn't worked in those 2 position areas.

[alexava 6,973]

On 12/23/2018 at 9:50 AM, bigbird said:

Last 5 years of OL recruiting. 

 

2014:

Braden Smith- G

Xavier Dampier- C

 

2015:

Harrell - G

Carr - G

Kim - C

Sharp - OT

Horton - G

Tega - SDE

 

2016:

Hamm - OT

Sammons - DT

Manning - DT

 

2017:

Ashley - OT

Brahms - C

Troxell - OT

 

2018:

Irvin - C

Stutts - OG

 

2019:

Jones - OG

Osborne - OG

?

 

 

C - 3 (X, Kim, Brahms)

G - 9 (Braden, Harrell, Carr, Horton, Sammons, Irvin, Stutts, Jones, Osborne)

T - 6 (Sharp, Tega, Hamm, Sammons, Ashley, Troxell)

Signed Total - 18

 

Left team - As of now 4 (Braden, X, Carr, Ashley(may make it back ))

 

Remaining Total -14

 

OT contributors so far through their careers-

Tega (DL, zero HS experience) - 1 1/2 years

Sharp (Some mop up snaps, zero starts)

Hamm (Returning from cancer, zero starts

Sammons (Some mop up snaps, zero starts)

Troxell (Back up, Some PT)

 

Transfers:

Golson

James

Dunn

Driscoll

Bell

4 of the 5 transfers were all significant starters for us. Which indicates that our OL recruiting and development has been beyond poor.

For 2019, if Tega leaves, that leaves 5 OT (Driscoll, Sharp, Troxell, Sammons, and Hamm)...6 if Ashley returns.  Combined they would have 12-15 starts between them. Yep our OL depth is awesome! Nothing to see, move along...

This IS THE PROBLEM!  This must improve. 

[bigbird 60,368]

16 minutes ago, alexava said:

This IS THE PROBLEM!  This must improve. 

Some see it...some don't.  To me, this is the issue that created or at least magnified most of our other offensive issues.

[mcgufcm 4,096]

It was a while back in the thread, but Hand doesn’t get absolved from our recruiting issues. Cast a wider net I suppose. Sure. But land your targets at a higher rate. And/or fight for dudes you think are underrated by your HC/recruiting coordinator. No possible way Hand has zero say in who we recruited or who we took. If that’s true, you gotta fight back. Grow some balls. 

As for our issues, we’ve had a bigger issue with development than anything. Recruiting has been poor; development worse. Carr and Kim and Ashley were big time recruits. None of them improved all that much. For every Tega or Harrell, there are too many Hortons (little improvement over years) or Sammons/Sharp (never seeing the field). It’s a mess. Gonna take two or three big recruiting seasons to really correct it. Can’t be done overnight. 

[L I G E R 120]

Grimes’ non-recruiting/mediocre coaching ass simply cannot be allowed to persist on Auburn’s coaching staff any longer.

[brad5628AU 35]

51 minutes ago, L I G E R said:

Grimes’ non-recruiting/mediocre coaching ass simply cannot be allowed to persist on Auburn’s coaching staff any longer.

When do these position coaches generally get canned? After the bowl game?

[hooverwareagle1 32]

Grimes ain't going anywhere.  Who do you think Gus could hire as an OL coach?  His circle of trust is so small.  We are stuck with Grimes for another year. His OL will be a large factor in next year being Gus' last one.