Emmert aware of sexual assault charges at MSU

[Auburnfan91 1,407]

5 minutes ago, auburnphan said:

Yawn, political nothing.    More about big money, but you will never be able to look past that if you are that blind already.

So you're okay with innocent men being expelled from colleges and in some case having a mark on their record that will carry with them when they try to get a job or move on in life?

The approach that innocent men are just collateral damage in the fight against sexual assault is a callous approach and shows how disingenuous some are about 'justice'. 

I want everyone's rights to be protected not just the women making sexual assault accusations, whether they're true or not.

[auburnphan 6,050]

3 minutes ago, Auburnfan91 said:

So you're okay with innocent men being expelled from colleges and in some case having a mark on their record that will carry with them when they try to get a job or move on in life?

Hyperbole, the reasoning behind it has more to do with everything going on now, if you are not smart enough to figure it all out, that is on you.  

[Auburnfan91 1,407]

4 minutes ago, auburnphan said:

Hyperbole, the reasoning behind it has more to do with everything going on now, if you are not smart enough to figure it all out, that is on you.  

No you're engaging in hyperbole, those Title IX guidelines that were in place before September 2017 didn't stop Larry Nassar from preying on his victims as recently as 2014.

[auburnphan 6,050]

7 minutes ago, Auburnfan91 said:

No you're engaging in hyperbole, those Title IX guidelines that were in place before September 2017 didn't stop Larry Nassar from preying on his victims as recently as 2014.

lol, yeah the guidelines were there for prevention, about the dumbest crap I have heard.   Quit derailing the thread with your infantile thought process.  Have a good night, I am gonna watch the replay of the basketball game I missed

[Auburnfan91 1,407]

12 hours ago, auburnphan said:

lol, yeah the guidelines were there for prevention, about the dumbest crap I have heard.   Quit derailing the thread with your infantile thought process.  Have a good night, I am gonna watch the replay of the basketball game I missed

So what was your point about bringing up Betsy DeVos when no one had mentioned her before you in this thread?

I think it's pretty hypocritical of you to throw Betsy DeVos name out in a thread about Mark Emmert but then accuse me of derailing the thread......

Edit: misspelled Betsy in the 2nd sentence.

[AlaskanFAN 1,665]

Emmertt is already responding to criticism.  Or is it damage control?

http://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/22235821/ncaa-president-mark-emmert-sends-email-michigan-state-spartans-board

Mark Emmert addresses NCAA board of governors on '10 advocacy letter

NCAA president Mark Emmert says 37 reported sexual assault cases involving Michigan State athletes referenced in a letter sent by an advocacy group in 2010 were "widely reported" and already being investigated by law enforcement and the school.

Emmert made the comments in an email sent Saturday to the NCAA board of governors and other university presidents. Spokeswoman Stacey Osborn provided Emmert's email to The Associated Press in response to a request for comment about a report by The Athletic, citing a letter sent by the National Coalition Against Violent Athletes to NCAA leaders in 2010.

ESPN's Outside the Lines published a report Friday that outlined a history of mishandled sexual assault allegations within Michigan State's athletic department, including abuse committed by former university sports doctor Larry Nassar. The report discovered a "pattern of widespread denial, inaction and information suppression" of sexual assault allegations.

Both MSU president Lou Anna Simon and athletic director Mark Hollis have stepped down in the past week.

The coalition letter, also provided to ESPN and the Associated Press, detailed what the group described as a "growing epidemic" of sexual assaults by male athletes against women and used "recent reports" of sexual violence involving two Michigan State basketball players as an example.

The letter also referenced an "earlier report of similar violence" involving Michigan State basketball players and "37 reports of sexual assault by MSU athletes" that had been reported in the past two years. It did not say where that figure came from.

According to The Athletic, Emmert met with Kathy Redmond, the founder of the National Coalition Against Violent Athletes, and received a letter from her dated Nov. 17, 2010, that detailed the allegations about MSU athletes sexually assaulting women. Also in attendance alongside Emmert and Redmond was legal expert Wendy Murphy, according to the website.

In a follow-up letter to Redmond and Murphy after the November 2010 meeting, Emmert said he was sincere in making "proper NCAA student-athlete conduct a priority" and detailed several examples of NCAA efforts to address sexual assaults on campuses.

"The MSU cases were widely reported in the press and already being investigated by law enforcement and university officials," Emmert said in the email to the NCAA board on Saturday. "Kathy did not imply that these were unreported cases or that she was acting as a whistleblower to report unknown information to the letter's recipients."

Emmert's email to the board also laid out numerous steps the NCAA has taken to address sexual violence in recent years, including the 2014 publication of the Handbook on Addressing Sexual Assault and Interpersonal Violence.

"Our work to prevent sexual assault on campuses has much further to go," Emmert wrote to the board. "There can be no room for this scourge anywhere in higher education. The assertion that I and the NCAA are not reporting crimes, however, is blatantly false. We cannot let stories of this kind deter us from our important work."

The NCAA said on Tuesday that it would be opening an investigation of MSU's handling of the Nassar case. Nassar, the former Michigan State University and USA Gymnastics doctor, received a 40- to 175-year sentence in state prison for sexually assaulting female athletes.

[PowerOfDixieland 3,225]

4 hours ago, AlaskanFAN said:

"Our work to prevent sexual assault on campuses has much further to go," Emmert wrote to the board. "There can be no room for this scourge anywhere in higher education. The assertion that I and the NCAA are not reporting crimes, however, is blatantly false. We cannot let stories of this kind deter us from our important work."

Has anybody ever implied or stated that it's the NCAA's job to "report crimes".  He can't be that stupid as to have the entirety of this quote directly attributable to him,  can he??  Just how in the hell do "stories of this kind deter us (him) from our (his) important work"?  Wow is that bad.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

12 hours ago, AlaskanFAN said:

Emmertt is already responding to criticism.  Or is it damage control?

I'd love to see the justice department open an investigation into how the NCAA responds to schools with ties to Emmet vs schools where he doesn't have friends... if for no other reason than to see him squirm.

[AlaskanFAN 1,665]

10 hours ago, lionheartkc said:

I'd love to see the justice department open an investigation into how the NCAA responds to schools with ties to Emmet vs schools where he doesn't have friends... if for no other reason than to see him squirm.

There has to be some sort of ramifications knowing about 37 assaults and nobody doing anything. That goes for all parties knowing of the original 37, including Emmertt, who obviously passed the buck back to the school and local law enforcement (which I can understand), but from the information put out right now and based upon his statement to the board/colleagues there was no follow up on his part/NCAA, which to ME is gross negligence, and allowed for the facilitation of more assaults.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

1 hour ago, AlaskanFAN said:

There has to be some sort of ramifications knowing about 37 assaults and nobody doing anything. That goes for all parties knowing of the original 37, including Emmertt, who obviously passed the buck back to the school and local law enforcement (which I can understand), but from the information put out right now and based upon his statement to the board/colleagues there was no follow up on his part/NCAA, which to ME is gross negligence, and allowed for the facilitation of more assaults.

Not only that, but the favoritism he plays funnels money away from some institutions and towards others. He has a magic wand that allows him to boost up some schools and decimate others.

As for the 37 assaults, the line of people who are culpable in that situation doesn't start or end with Emmert and EVERY SINGLE ONE of them should face some level of penalty for looking the other way, whatever their motivation was to do so, unless they can show a paper trail of investigation that they facilitated that ended in some level of brilliant subterfuge that prevented them from finding the truth. I totally agree that no follow-up is equivalent to guilt by association.

[auburn4ever 1,266]

Emmert was at LSU and pulled a lot of strings to get Saban to leave Michigan State and take the LSU job. In other words, Emmert made it real easy for Nick to move to Baton Rouge. I guess Nick's wife wasn't wearing the pants and being the boss back then. She sure is now though.

[keesler 5,922]

On 1/29/2018 at 7:38 AM, AlaskanFAN said:

There has to be some sort of ramifications knowing about 37 assaults and nobody doing anything. That goes for all parties knowing of the original 37, including Emmertt, who obviously passed the buck back to the school and local law enforcement (which I can understand), but from the information put out right now and based upon his statement to the board/colleagues there was no follow up on his part/NCAA, which to ME is gross negligence, and allowed for the facilitation of more assaults.

What kind of follow up should have been done on behalf of the NCAA when the cases were reported to the police, subsequently investigated and no charges were filed?  If the incidents are turned over to police and no criminal charges were made then how can the NCAA do anything?  

I just don't understand what the NCAA was supposed to do?  The police investigated and declined to make an arrest.  The school has the responsibility to investigate under Title IX if necessary.  It's not the NCAA's responsibility, nor do they have the authority to enforce laws or be a last resort when the proper authorities decline to arrest, prosecute, suspend, or expel a student athlete.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

13 minutes ago, keesler said:

What kind of follow up should have been done on behalf of the NCAA when the cases were reported to the police, subsequently investigated and no charges were filed?  If the incidents are turned over to police and no criminal charges were made then how can the NCAA do anything?  

I just don't understand what the NCAA was supposed to do?  The police investigated and declined to make an arrest.  The school has the responsibility to investigate under Title IX if necessary.  It's not the NCAA's responsibility, nor do they have the authority to enforce laws or be a last resort when the proper authorities decline to arrest, prosecute, suspend, or expel a student athlete.

The NCAA is the governing body of the athletics for it's member schools. If a school is doing anything that is detrimental to it's student athletes in order to maintain a competitive advantage,  then it should be the NCAA's business. Outside of that, as a human being, no one, when presented with a laundry list of accusations should just walk away and let it be someone else's problem.

[keesler 5,922]

27 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

The NCAA is the governing body of the athletics for it's member schools. If a school is doing anything that is detrimental to it's student athletes in order to maintain a competitive advantage,  then it should be the NCAA's business. Outside of that, as a human being, no one, when presented with a laundry list of accusations should just walk away and let it be someone else's problem.

So Emmert should have pressed the police/law enforcement to act differently on a criminal investigation because it is the humane thing to do?  Can the president of the NCAA act outside of what the NCAA's jurisdiction allows?

This is a legal matter first and foremost.  I fail to see how the NCAA can pass judgement on alleged criminal activity where law enforcement was deeply involved and their investigation lead to no charges being filed.  

And why the hell has this mess not fallen on Jim Delaney's desk?  Two HUGE scandals in Penn State and now MSU that happened under his watch.  Yet not a peep from him in all of this?   Folks want to crucify the NCAA and not even point shed a light on the freaking conference commissioner?  WTH?

[oldaufeller 367]

So I headed off to a presentation about bullying this past weekend and the current state of research.  Here are a couple takeaways:

1) I did not know: Bullying (and yes I asked explicitly if this applies to abuse like Nasser/MSU) -- extreme punitive measures are not as effective compared to interruption  interventions.  Research shows other predictors are not likely to be deterred if Nasser gets a 175 year jail sentence.  If a predator is caught early and held accountable, even though being early caught early means less punishment, works as stronger and far longer lasting deterrent and corrective behavior. It does mean intervening quickly in every instance.

2) Those in authority are rarely held accountable.

3) There are known indicators that can be used to identify and quantify abuse and bullying.  Most people lack the skills or training to see them, or the size to the group they are looking masks the problem.

4) Oddly enough - those you would think have authority (the principal, US Gymnastics Committee, MSU staff) have far less LEGAL authority than you would believe.  Basically they are required to report felonies but are not judicial delegates of the law.  They are loosely required by law to notify police abuse or suspicion of abuse of a minor - but oft times even in the most blatant situations - an authority figure will say they didn't see it or it didn't recognize the issue. After the fact it's difficult to tell who is lying and who is just trying to wiggle out of trouble.

5) In regards to bullying, there is no central focus of accountability for children protection.  Child services within the legal framework is usually a mop-up. 

6) Schools, athletic organizations etc. are usually ill-equipped, under trained, and understaffed to identify and deal with child protection issues.  Even for organizations that try, there are legal boundaries and restrictions 

His recommendations: 

There is really no central "bill of rights" that defines the civil rights for minors. Individual groups, schools and organizations hare trying - but it is not consistent nor has legal teeth.    The current protections that are actions of law are usually violence related (think Nasser.)

An independent legal authority is needed that focuses on strictly on child crimes. Youth organizations should be required by law to meet certain compliance standards - the most important is the legal authority is notified within a certain time period (say three days) for a violation or suspected violation.  Basically make it illegal not to turn it over.   Investigations must be removed from the source to avoid conflict of interest.  An legal entity that oversees child protection compliance that should be required for schools, athletic organizations, etc.  Currently, the only guidance is "don't be negligent"  - hard to define, execute and uphold.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

37 minutes ago, keesler said:

So Emmert should have pressed the police/law enforcement to act differently on a criminal investigation because it is the humane thing to do?  Can the president of the NCAA act outside of what the NCAA's jurisdiction allows?

This is a legal matter first and foremost.  I fail to see how the NCAA can pass judgement on alleged criminal activity where law enforcement was deeply involved and their investigation lead to no charges being filed.  

And why the hell has this mess not fallen on Jim Delaney's desk?  Two HUGE scandals in Penn State and now MSU that happened under his watch.  Yet not a peep from him in all of this?   Folks want to crucify the NCAA and not even point shed a light on the freaking conference commissioner?  WTH?

No, Emmert should have pressed the university. He should have gone in and investigated when student athletes are claiming they are being abused and their reports are being ignored. You can't just wash your hands of something like this over "jurisdiction". The reality is, and Emmert knows this better than most, that local law enforcement is often in the pocket of the university and protects the program. No one is saying the NCAA should have put some program on probation or something like that, they are saying that he knew about this for 7 years, and like many other people did nothing about it while it kept happening, likely because his buddy would take the fall if it came to light, and he should be taken to task over it. 

As for Delaney, the question is, did he know anything?  We know Emmert knew, so Emmert is the one under attack. If it becomes clear that Delaney knew as well, then he can join the party. 

Ask yourself this, Keesler. If you had a daughter who was abused, and you found out that someone knew about the abuser for 7 years prior and did nothing, how would you feel about that person?

[AlaskanFAN 1,665]

18 minutes ago, keesler said:

What kind of follow up should have been done on behalf of the NCAA when the cases were reported to the police, subsequently investigated and no charges were filed?  If the incidents are turned over to police and no criminal charges were made then how can the NCAA do anything?  

I just don't understand what the NCAA was supposed to do?  The police investigated and declined to make an arrest.  The school has the responsibility to investigate under Title IX if necessary.  It's not the NCAA's responsibility, nor do they have the authority to enforce laws or be a last resort when the proper authorities decline to arrest, prosecute, suspend, or expel a student athlete.

What kind of follow up? Are you serious? As the new NCAA President, Emmertt sits in a meeting with the President of school that stand accused of 37 sexual assaults in a two year period and you think he can’t even follow up with a phone call with questions like,

1) I was just call to see how the victims that reported sexual assaults are doing.

2) Just checking in to see how things are going with the 37 cases you have?

3) Hey, in your investigations into those 37 cases and working with Title IX, do you see areas of concern that as the NCAA President I could look into improving to help student athletes who report incidents of sexual assault to coaches, trainers and Dr.’s.

4) Are there more things you see that the NCAA could do to help victims once investigations have been completed?

It only took him till 2014 to get an NCAA publication on Sexual Assault and Interpersonal Violence. 

MSU has a contractual obligations with the NCAA and under the NCAA Constitution article 2.1 dictates that, “it is the responsibility of each member institution to control its intercollegiate athletics program in compliance with the rules and regulations of the Association. The institution’s president or chancellor is responsible for the administration of all aspects of the athletics program”

Article 2.2 bylaw 20.9.1.6. Both of those rules concern an athletic department’s duty to protect student-athletes.

Since those 37 sexual assaults were students athletes MSU, was not living up to the above mentioned Articles and bylaws, which give  Emmertt every right to have the NCAA look into those cases.  

Up until the point when he took over it was common practice to let local law enforcement and University handle the situation.  He could have ended that practice right there. 37 sexual assaults in 2 years on student atheletes at one institution should have been a big red flag. He had the rules, he had the ability and he had the power to make a difference and chose not to.

In the Email sent to his colleagues and board members Emmertt is now downplaying his 2010 meeting and information learned. His problem is, there are copies of the letters he sent out after that 2010 meeting and his promise to make sexual assault a NCAA priority. 

So yeah, he could have done something as President of the NCAA and as a human being!!

 

[keesler 5,922]

I'll just say that I believe we know very little about how the NCAA chose to handle this, and we know even less about how the freaking conference commissioner chose to handle this case.

Jim Delaney presided over a conference where two of the biggest sexual abuse cases in the nation have occurred.  There's no way he didn't know that one of his major programs was embroiled in a massive sex abuse case when the freaking law enforcement conducted their investigation and while MSU conducted their's as well.  Some of these were Title IX issues, the NCAA does not preside over Title IX cases.  Yet, we haven't heard a single word out of the man.  Penn State and now Michigan State fall under Jim Delaney's jurisdiction and supervision as the conference commissioner.  Delaney's hands weren't tied due to limited authority like the NCAA faced, what did HE do to investigate the accusations, and what did HE do to prevent it?

[keesler 5,922]

15 hours ago, AlaskanFAN said:

What kind of follow up? Are you serious? As the new NCAA President, Emmertt sits in a meeting with the President of school that stand accused of 37 sexual assaults in a two year period and you think he can’t even follow up with a phone call with questions like,

1) I was just call to see how the victims that reported sexual assaults are doing.

2) Just checking in to see how things are going with the 37 cases you have?

3) Hey, in your investigations into those 37 cases and working with Title IX, do you see areas of concern that as the NCAA President I could look into improving to help student athletes who report incidents of sexual assault to coaches, trainers and Dr.’s.

4) Are there more things you see that the NCAA could do to help victims once investigations have been completed?

It only took him till 2014 to get an NCAA publication on Sexual Assault and Interpersonal Violence. 

MSU has a contractual obligations with the NCAA and under the NCAA Constitution article 2.1 dictates that, “it is the responsibility of each member institution to control its intercollegiate athletics program in compliance with the rules and regulations of the Association. The institution’s president or chancellor is responsible for the administration of all aspects of the athletics program”

Article 2.2 bylaw 20.9.1.6. Both of those rules concern an athletic department’s duty to protect student-athletes.

Since those 37 sexual assaults were students athletes MSU, was not living up to the above mentioned Articles and bylaws, which give  Emmertt every right to have the NCAA look into those cases.  

Up until the point when he took over it was common practice to let local law enforcement and University handle the situation.  He could have ended that practice right there. 37 sexual assaults in 2 years on student atheletes at one institution should have been a big red flag. He had the rules, he had the ability and he had the power to make a difference and chose not to.

In the Email sent to his colleagues and board members Emmertt is now downplaying his 2010 meeting and information learned. His problem is, there are copies of the letters he sent out after that 2010 meeting and his promise to make sexual assault a NCAA priority. 

So yeah, he could have done something as President of the NCAA and as a human being!!

 

Ok, I agree Emmert showed lack of compassion in this case from a "human" standpoint.  The NCAA didn't make sexual abuse a top priority like they said they would.  Could that possibly have been put on the back burner because of the way Penn State and the State of Pennsylvania fought back after the NCAA's harsh penalties in their case?  The State of Penn sued them and the NCAA basically had to retract all of the sanctions they levied against PSU. 

I don't know why the NCAA took a back seat in this MSU case, possibly because they got burned in the PSU mess?  But if any other member institution had an issue with the way the NCAA has handled sex abuse cases, they THEY should have pushed for a change that allowed the NCAA to preside over criminal cases like this.  

Now, we know the conferences have the power and authority to step in and take control of a program in situations where a program is damaging the conference or the student-athletes.  Where was the conference commissioner in all of this?

[AlaskanFAN 1,665]

7 hours ago, keesler said:

Ok, I agree Emmert showed lack of compassion in this case from a "human" standpoint.  The NCAA didn't make sexual abuse a top priority like they said they would.  Could that possibly have been put on the back burner because of the way Penn State and the State of Pennsylvania fought back after the NCAA's harsh penalties in their case?  The State of Penn sued them and the NCAA basically had to retract all of the sanctions they levied against PSU. 

I don't know why the NCAA took a back seat in this MSU case, possibly because they got burned in the PSU mess?  But if any other member institution had an issue with the way the NCAA has handled sex abuse cases, they THEY should have pushed for a change that allowed the NCAA to preside over criminal cases like this.  

Now, we know the conferences have the power and authority to step in and take control of a program in situations where a program is damaging the conference or the student-athletes.  Where was the conference commissioner in all of this?

Honestly I have no idea who the Conference Commissioner is for the Big10 or what there rules are governing their member institutions. I have not looked into him or them. But if he had knowledge of the situation and the ability to facilitate any action, then he gets fried to in my book like Emmertt.

I personally have no love lose for anyone in a position of authority to do something about or has the opportunity to better the cause for any type of sexual assault. That’s my high horse. My personal opinion only. If others have an argument ok, I get fairly agitated on this topic. I have seen this issue and ramifications it has on individuals first hand.

Sometimes I forget to step back and think for a bit.