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2019 5* LB Owen Pappoe commits to AUBURN!!! (5/1/2018)

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15 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

There's always a paper trail... but sometimes that paper trail takes some VERY specialized talent, equipment and connections to follow. Unfortunately, no one is going to dedicate those resources to making college football fair. 

It's mafia handbook 101. 

Great points.

I was glad to get the anecdote from a die hard bama fan, although I'm guessing it's not dissimilar from other programs who know how to the play the game (unlike Ole Miss). Or the mafia. 

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5 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Great points.

I was glad to get the anecdote from a die hard bama fan, although I'm guessing it's not dissimilar from other programs who know how to the play the game (unlike Ole Miss). Or the mafia. 

Buffers.....the Family has a lot of Buffers.

 

 

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Just now, keesler said:

Buffers.....the Family has a lot of Buffers.

And plausible deniability.

There was a deep dive article written on it several years ago. The price of admission doesn't even include a face-to-face with the head coach for the financiers in most cases. 

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9 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

And plausible deniability.

There was a deep dive article written on it several years ago. The price of admission doesn't even include a face-to-face with the head coach for the financiers in most cases. 

Hell, a sit down on momma's plastic covered sofa will cost you a pretty penny these days.   That's why building "relationships" early on is paramount - 'Cause Momma and Auntie ain't wastin' time on small potatoes when the big time spuds have been knockin' down the door for years.

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9 hours ago, WarDamnEagleWDE said:

Don't know about Kirby but uat don't leave any kind of paper trail. People have looked into this. Hard. 

Don’t see what’s so hard when they all seem to get the same Dodge Charger everytime

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17 minutes ago, brad5628AU said:

Don’t see what’s so hard when they all seem to get the same Dodge Charger everytime

Well if there all getting them, then no is out of the “Circle of Trust”!!!

3A5A22CD-58B6-4FC6-9475-68475DBF8858.png

You never want to be outside the circle!!!

Edited by AlaskanFAN
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On 3/13/2018 at 8:38 AM, ArgoEagle said:

It may take 2 or 3 years, but I think eventually bowl cut gets nailed! No way he is pulling in all these big time recruits legitimately.

To be shady, it takes a full effort and everyone on board.  It takes biased media, donors who own business' to stop donating to the school in any way and start donating through the players, and a 100% commitment from the top down on knowing the rules and how to straddle the gray area without crossing.   

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15 minutes ago, NorthGATiger said:

To be shady, it takes a full effort and everyone on board.  It takes biased media, donors who own business' to stop donating to the school in any way and start donating through the players, and a 100% commitment from the top down on knowing the rules and how to straddle the gray area without crossing.   

Our new recruiting coordinator needs no introduction, as he just introduced himself! 

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2 hours ago, McLoofus said:

Our new recruiting coordinator needs no introduction, as he just introduced himself! 

Laughs out loud. Now that's rich.

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5 hours ago, NorthGATiger said:

knowing the rules and how to straddle the gray area without crossing

Or leap over it with reckless abandon and still avoid getting punished, bama style.

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2 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

Or leap over it with reckless abandon and still avoid getting punished, bama style.

People don't like it but what Bama does is well within the rules that are in place and they work their system perfectly.  If I don't buy tickets or give any money at all to the school then I can buy and dole out as many Dodge Chargers as I see fit from every auction in Alabama.  Same goes for the houses that kids get like Trent Richardson.  Same goes for the company that sells nice wheels for cars.  Their "Donation" to the University is done outside of the University.  It just takes the proper people not connected with the school to make it happen.  Bama has people and a structure set up all over the place.  Jobs, money, cars, whatever it takes.  Nothing is connected with the school whatsoever and the people forking out the gifts are completely unaffiliated with the school in any way and don't even buy tickets.  That is how it is done.  That is how UGA will operate as well.  You just can't slip up.  One gift giver so much as buys a ticket to a football game and then you become a donor by NCAA standards.

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12 minutes ago, NorthGATiger said:

People don't like it but what Bama does is well within the rules that are in place and they work their system perfectly.  If I don't buy tickets or give any money at all to the school then I can buy and dole out as many Dodge Chargers as I see fit from every auction in Alabama.  Same goes for the houses that kids get like Trent Richardson.  Same goes for the company that sells nice wheels for cars.  Their "Donation" to the University is done outside of the University.  It just takes the proper people not connected with the school to make it happen.  Bama has people and a structure set up all over the place.  Jobs, money, cars, whatever it takes.  Nothing is connected with the school whatsoever and the people forking out the gifts are completely unaffiliated with the school in any way and don't even buy tickets.  That is how it is done.  That is how UGA will operate as well.  You just can't slip up.  One gift giver so much as buys a ticket to a football game and then you become a donor by NCAA standards.

Ah... but it's not within the rules it's using backdoor channels to subvert the rules. The rule states that you can't give a player incentives to play for your school. Making it look like the incentives were provided by someone who has no affiliation with the school (you know, other than standing on the sidelines ala T-Town Tom), does not mean you are within the rules, it just means you are committing fraud on top of breaking the rules.

The most interesting thing is that a lot of what happens could actually be prosecuted, because it often subverts tax laws, involves filing false paperwork, etc in order to control the flow of money and who's name is attached. Technically, the businesses that participate could be busted for racketeering if someone wanted to go there.

Also, don't forget that there have been documented cases of bama players directly asking coaches for money and coaches providing it... and nothing happened.

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From the comments over the last couple of pages, it seems like we need to go ahead and move this topic to the Rivals Recruiting forum.

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1 hour ago, AUDevil said:

From the comments over the last couple of pages, it seems like we need to go ahead and move this topic to the Rivals Recruiting forum.

I'm still holding out hope. These other guys are just talking about UGA's corruptness. If Wanya commits to us then that could build traction going along with the other factors. 

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20 hours ago, lionheartkc said:

Ah... but it's not within the rules it's using backdoor channels to subvert the rules. The rule states that you can't give a player incentives to play for your school. Making it look like the incentives were provided by someone who has no affiliation with the school (you know, other than standing on the sidelines ala T-Town Tom), does not mean you are within the rules, it just means you are committing fraud on top of breaking the rules.

The most interesting thing is that a lot of what happens could actually be prosecuted, because it often subverts tax laws, involves filing false paperwork, etc in order to control the flow of money and who's name is attached. Technically, the businesses that participate could be busted for racketeering if someone wanted to go there.

Also, don't forget that there have been documented cases of bama players directly asking coaches for money and coaches providing it... and nothing happened.

Think of it like this.  You have a house that you don't live in at Lake Martin.  It's just sitting there so you decide to let your property manager know that you want to rent it out.  You decide that the rent can be minimal as long as utilities are paid because anything you make is just extra money anyway.  During the 3 or 4 years you have it rented there is a lawn care company that charges you nothing that comes by every week to keep everything looking great.  You don't even know who they are.  After the family decides it is time to move, your property manager calls you one day to let you know that the family has moved and that there will be some minor work done in your home to make sure it is in the condition it was in before you rented it.  You never see an invoice for this work but you are pleased with the way the home looks when they are done.  

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46 minutes ago, NorthGATiger said:

Think of it like this.  You have a house that you don't live in at Lake Martin.  It's just sitting there so you decide to let your property manager know that you want to rent it out.  You decide that the rent can be minimal as long as utilities are paid because anything you make is just extra money anyway.  During the 3 or 4 years you have it rented there is a lawn care company that charges you nothing that comes by every week to keep everything looking great.  You don't even know who they are.  After the family decides it is time to move, your property manager calls you one day to let you know that the family has moved and that there will be some minor work done in your home to make sure it is in the condition it was in before you rented it.  You never see an invoice for this work but you are pleased with the way the home looks when they are done.  

Which would all be good and fine, except in this case, there are people inside of the program who are well aware of who is doing what, they are just pretending that they aren't. I refer you back to the a fore mentioned paper trail of a coach getting money to a player. I also refer you to coaches bringing "friends of the program" to meetings with recruits (said coach was sent packing for not covering his tracks well enough and has never coached again, even though he was considered good at his job). 

So, if we go with your scenario, the management company is arranging and paying for all of the perks, but you are paying the management company for everything they are doing above board, and for everything else, your wife is occasionally dropping off fresh baked cookies, you are doing some networking for them with influential people you know, etc. Oh... and lawn care and home maintenance have to be illegal, or at least in violation of your homeowner's agreement.

Edited by lionheartkc

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18 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

Which would all be good and fine, except in this case, there are people inside of the program who are well aware of who is doing what, they are just pretending that they aren't. I refer you back to the a fore mentioned paper trail of a coach getting money to a player. I also refer you to coaches bringing "friends of the program" to meetings with recruits (said coach was sent packing for not covering his tracks well enough and has never coached again, even though he was considered good at his job). 

So, if we go with your scenario, the management company is arranging and paying for all of the perks, but you are paying the management company for everything they are doing above board, and for everything else, your wife is occasionally dropping off fresh baked cookies, you are doing some networking for them with influential people you know, etc. Oh... and lawn care and home maintenance have to be illegal, or at least in violation of your homeowner's agreement.

Mostly correct but the people in the program don't know and are not aware of who is doing what.  They can't know.  Your wife is definitely not ever bringing cookies by the house and you never want to meet them or even know or care who is renting it.  You don't give a rats arse who is cutting the grass at your place and by all means it isn't illegal to cut grass somewhere and not charge for it if that is what you want to do.  The lawn care company just takes care of your house because ya'll are "friends".  If I show up today and cut your grass for free is that illegal?

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17 minutes ago, NorthGATiger said:

Mostly correct but the people in the program don't know and are not aware of who is doing what.  They can't know.  Your wife is definitely not ever bringing cookies by the house and you never want to meet them or even know or care who is renting it.  You don't give a rats arse who is cutting the grass at your place and by all means it isn't illegal to cut grass somewhere and not charge for it if that is what you want to do.  The lawn care company just takes care of your house because ya'll are "friends".  If I show up today and cut your grass for free is that illegal?

Your wife bringing cookies by the house = Saban letting T-Town Tom stand on the sidelines
The people who are arranging these things are getting "perks". I gaurantee you every one of them has been in the stands of a championship game. Their lackeys may have no connection at all but they are getting perks from the people getting perks. The one thing you can be certain of is that no one is getting nothing for their part in the effort. 

If you cut my grass for free, no, that's not illegal. If you walk up to a college football player, and promise him a car, or a wad of cash, or whatever to play for some school that you didn't go to (since having attended the school makes you an instant booster), it's still breaking a rule. It may not implicate the team because you aren't outwardly connected, but if it's found out, the player's college football career is still over.

 

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53 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

Your wife bringing cookies by the house = Saban letting T-Town Tom stand on the sidelines
The people who are arranging these things are getting "perks". I gaurantee you every one of them has been in the stands of a championship game. Their lackeys may have no connection at all but they are getting perks from the people getting perks. The one thing you can be certain of is that no one is getting nothing for their part in the effort. 

If you cut my grass for free, no, that's not illegal. If you walk up to a college football player, and promise him a car, or a wad of cash, or whatever to play for some school that you didn't go to (since having attended the school makes you an instant booster), it's still breaking a rule. It may not implicate the team because you aren't outwardly connected, but if it's found out, the player's college football career is still over.

 

I'm just telling you how it's done and how a system put in place makes it rather easy to get by the NCAA.  To the NCAA it's all about the definition of booster.  You will never see the NCAA kick a kid out of school because joe blow who has zero affiliation to the school gave him a Dodge Charger he bought at an auction.  Right or wrong that's just how it is.  If a grocery store owner that could not be tied to Auburn gave the Ramsey's some food and diapers because they needed it there would not have been an issue.  Instead it was traced directly to the coaches and the school.  We can argue all day about the law and tax evasion and such but we are talking about the NCAA.  

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1 hour ago, NorthGATiger said:

I'm just telling you how it's done and how a system put in place makes it rather easy to get by the NCAA.  To the NCAA it's all about the definition of booster.  You will never see the NCAA kick a kid out of school because joe blow who has zero affiliation to the school gave him a Dodge Charger he bought at an auction.  Right or wrong that's just how it is.  If a grocery store owner that could not be tied to Auburn gave the Ramsey's some food and diapers because they needed it there would not have been an issue.  Instead it was traced directly to the coaches and the school.  We can argue all day about the law and tax evasion and such but we are talking about the NCAA.  

I get what you are saying... I'm just trying to make the point that they are not staying within the rules, or even gray areas, they are just breaking other rules to make it appear as if they are. And, of course, Saban's relationship with Emmert makes it so when they accidentally slip up, nothing happens. 

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11 hours ago, NorthGATiger said:

Think of it like this.  You have a house that you don't live in at Lake Martin.  It's just sitting there so you decide to let your property manager know that you want to rent it out.  You decide that the rent can be minimal as long as utilities are paid because anything you make is just extra money anyway.  During the 3 or 4 years you have it rented there is a lawn care company that charges you nothing that comes by every week to keep everything looking great.  You don't even know who they are.  After the family decides it is time to move, your property manager calls you one day to let you know that the family has moved and that there will be some minor work done in your home to make sure it is in the condition it was in before you rented it.  You never see an invoice for this work but you are pleased with the way the home looks when they are done.  

It's not that easy to skirt the rules, particularly when rivals are watching your every move. Something as transparent as you just described wouldn't last a full season. It appears that bammer is bullet proof because Saban has something on Emmert but other than that unique situation, schools get caught and pay the price.

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3 minutes ago, Timeslider 6 said:

I wish i could be as confident about the ncaa (finding stuff) as you are Mikey.  Bama seems to be be coated in teflon.

I agree that UAT is a unique case. I've convinced myself that it's something in the Saban/Emmert relationship. I don't think any other school, Georgia included, can even start to get away with the crap bammer pulls.

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10 hours ago, Mikey said:

It's not that easy to skirt the rules, particularly when rivals are watching your every move. Something as transparent as you just described wouldn't last a full season. It appears that bammer is bullet proof because Saban has something on Emmert but other than that unique situation, schools get caught and pay the price.

Nobody is doing this without their rivals seeing it.  What are you going to report to the NCAA?  That this kids family moved into a really nice house that is owned by someone who is not a contributor to the school.  The NCAA at BEST checks to see if the owner of the home is a booster associated directly with the school.  If they are not then the NCAA does not and can not go after people for tax evasion and all the legal mumbo jumbo.  I have seen how this works.  You can argue with me all day long and it won't do any good.  There are kids that had not signed with Bama yet who brought their clunker cars into a certain dealership for "work to be done" and given a loaner to drive while the car is being "fixed".  Is it right, of course not.  Is it legal?  I would think not but somehow it happens and has happened.  Everyone has seen the laundry list of things. Dodge Chargers that are traced back to auctions, $1200 wheels, houses for families who can't afford them, a Cadillac Escalade for a kid with a single mother who worked a sub $10 per hour job, multiple suits to wear for gameday, memorabilia that kids are brought in to sign, coaches telling the NCAA who they will and will not drug test.  Either Bama is really the mafia or they have found a way to do things that the NCAA has no ability to enforce.  It sounds great to say Saban has Emmert bent over and can do whatever he wants but that is unlikely with what can be proven to be considered violations under the NCAA by laws.  

John Stump Thrower was a damn good Auburn man who sacrificed everything to fight the garbage Bama was pulling.  We were all more than angry how time and time again Auburn was slapped with sanctions while Bama skated.  What I will tell you is that in my lifetime when Bama has done wrong and the University is "Linked" to it then they get sanctions.  When the university is not linked then they skate by.  Unfortunately Auburn has been directly connected and "Linked" to every sanction that they have received in the modern era.  You can't have coaches giving kids money directly or buying them groceries.  When Auburn could not be linked, Cam Newton, nothing became of it.

Saban has a machine and operation.  He has a million people on staff or off staff that really are on staff.  He knows how to play the game and Kirby has all of the support in the state of Georgia to do the same thing.  Ga Tech does not even recruit the same kids under Paul Johnson anymore.  It is the perfect set up as there is no in state school to battle UGA for anyone.  If O'Leary, Bobby Ross, or Ralph Friedgen were there they at least would be recruiting the same kids.  It has become a game of prove it, and prove that the school is involved.  Bama has mastered it under Saban and Kirby will be doing the exact same thing.

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