2019 4* RB Derrian Brown

[ellitor 33,083]

41 minutes ago, The Plainsman said:

Premier backs do not want to only have 700 yrd a year.   Atleast if I am a 5 star guy,. I want the dang rock.  

As long as the team is winning wanting to get all the carries isn't what it used to be. If the team is winning & they don't have to carry the ball all the time that means tthe less hits they take & increases their shelf life.

[McLoofus 35,182]

14 minutes ago, The Plainsman said:

Premier backs do not want to only have 700 yrd a year.   Atleast if I am a 5 star guy,. I want the dang rock,. Let me get my 1000+ yrd two years in a row and get drafted.   

Sony Michel was a 5* guy. He carried the ball 11 times a game last season and got drafted in the first round. 

[ellitor 33,083]

3 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Sony Michel was a 5* guy. He carried the ball 11 times a game last season and got drafted in the first round. 

Chubb was a 5* too & averaged just under 15 carries a game, and his average maintained right at 15 in their 6 biggest games.

Sony was at 11 overall as you said & was at 11.5 in the 6 biggest games.

For Comparison, KJ was at 24 per game total as you said but 30 per game in the 4 biggest games.before the injury versus Bama. KJ had 31 more carries in his 4 big games than Chubb had in his 6 & 50 Sony in his 6. That's a lot of extra hits versus tough SEC Ds.

Both Chubb & Sony were drafted higher than KJ. Kids are learning they don't have to get a kagillion carries in college to get their best draft value in the pro so they are open to sharing carries with other talented backs...And their bodies will be fresher for it.

[NorthGATiger 1,801]

3 minutes ago, ellitor said:

Chubb was a 5* too & averaged just under 15 carries a game, and his average maintained right at 15 in their 6 biggest games.

Sony was at 11 overall as you said & was at 11.5 in the 6 biggest games.

For Comparison, KJ was at 24 per game total as you said but 30 per game in the 4 biggest games.before the injury versus Bama. KJ had 31 more carries in his 4 big games than Chubb had in his 6 & 50 Sony in his 6. That's a lot of extra hits versus tough SEC Ds.

Both Chubb & Sony were drafted higher than KJ. Kids are learning they don't have to get a kagillion carries in college to get their best draft value in the pro so they are open to sharing carries with other talented backs...And their bodies will be fresher for it.

So who is going to forward this to Gus so he can see the light and realize the error in his ways lol.  We have opinions and great stats to back it up.  

[ellitor 33,083]

1 minute ago, NorthGATiger said:

So who is going to forward this to Gus so he can see the light and realize the error in his ways lol

There is no turning on the light with Gus on this. He's as stubborn as a mule on it.  There no forcing him too either with his comfy new contract.

[Grumps 3,704]

It is my guess that Chubb and Michel both griped for their UGA careers that they didn't get enough carries!

[toddc 13,194]

6 minutes ago, ellitor said:

Chubb was a 5* too & averaged just under 15 carries a game, and his average maintained right at 15 in their 6 biggest games.

Sony was at 11 overall as you said & was at 11.5 in the 6 biggest games.

For Comparison, KJ was at 24 per game total as you said but 30 per game in the 4 biggest games.before the injury versus Bama. KJ had 31 more carries in his 4 big games than Chubb had in his 6 & 50 Sony in his 6. That's a lot of extra hits versus tough SEC Ds.

Both Chubb & Sony were drafted higher than KJ. Kids are learning they don't have to get a kagillion carries in college to get their best draft value in the pro so they are open to sharing carries with other talented backs...And their bodies will be fresher for it.

Part of the difference in this comparison is they had 2 5* backs to share the load. We had one healthy back and one injured (KP)trying to get a win. Then Georgia had a third back who was more capable than our next man up. I do get the argument we should have better prepared a viable option for when kJ got hurt as well.

[NorthGATiger 1,801]

Just now, Grumps said:

It is my guess that Chubb and Michel both griped for their UGA careers that they didn't get enough carries!

Nope. Like Caddy and Ronnie they were great teammates working together 

 

[ellitor 33,083]

3 minutes ago, toddc said:

Part of the difference in this comparison is they had 2 5* backs to share the load. We had one healthy back and one injured (KP)trying to get a win. Then Georgia had a third back who was more capable than our next man up. I do get the argument we should have better prepared a viable option for when kJ got hurt as well.

KP wasn't injured most of the time & wasn't al all the last half of the season. He was too busy enjoying the hazzy life a lot to worry about being a good teammate enough to get hazzy only in moderation.

[NorthGATiger 1,801]

12 minutes ago, toddc said:

Part of the difference in this comparison is they had 2 5* backs to share the load. We had one healthy back and one injured (KP)trying to get a win. Then Georgia had a third back who was more capable than our next man up. I do get the argument we should have better prepared a viable option for when kJ got hurt as well.

Yes.  Like I have said 100 times, it is even more frustrating when you realize that Bubba was an afterthought to even have played at the RB position.  So depth and recruiting at the RB position is even worse than it looked.  What did UGA have behind Chubb and Sony?  Holyfield and Swift.  Who was behind Gurley?  Chubb.  Who will be behind Swift and Holyfield this year? Another 5* stud in Zamir White.  

All comparable plug and play players and all were high 4* to 5* guys.  You can't just recruit situational RB's.  You have to recruit guys that can step in and match the production of the guy in front of them.  I'm sorry but we have not done that.  We have those guys on top of our board every year and watch them pick other teams and then fall back to 2nd tier guys.  i don't care about having the leading rusher in the SEC.  I care about being the leading team in rushing and having players that are able to play in the biggest games of the year.  I would trade KJ's 20+ rushes against little sisters of the poor last year to get quality reps to RB2 and RB3 so that they would be ready when called upon.

[Barnacle 9,064]

Hopefully, added depth will quell some of what is being debated here. That's assuming that we have any - especially "depth" according to Gus.

I can tell you one thing, though. Kam Martin's performance this season is going to embolden one side of this argument either way.  

Bottom line: we need to recruit the position better. 

[augolf1716 21,103]

24 minutes ago, ellitor said:

There is no turning on the light with Gus on this. He's as stubborn as a mule on it.  There no forcing him too either with his comfy new contract.

yep just ask Kristi

[ellitor 33,083]

33 minutes ago, NorthGATiger said:

Yes.  Like I have said 100 times, it is even more frustrating when you realize that Bubba was an afterthought to even have played at the RB position.  So depth and recruiting at the RB position is even worse than it looked.  What did UGA have behind Chubb and Sony?  Holyfield and Swift.  Who was behind Gurley?  Chubb.  Who will be behind Swift and Holyfield this year? Another 5* stud in Zamir White.  

All comparable plug and play players and all were high 4* to 5* guys.  You can't just recruit situational RB's.  You have to recruit guys that can step in and match the production of the guy in front of them.  I'm sorry but we have not done that.  We have those guys on top of our board every year and watch them pick other teams and then fall back to 2nd tier guys.  i don't care about having the leading rusher in the SEC.  I care about being the leading team in rushing and having players that are able to play in the biggest games of the year.  I would trade KJ's 20+ rushes against little sisters of the poor last year to get quality reps to RB2 and RB3 so that they would be ready when called upon.

Again. I don't know how many times I have to say this,. There are not enough 5* & high 4* guys to go around for every team that has a rich RB history to get more than 1 in every 3 years or so, especiaslly when RB1 is getting run into the ground & the rest sitting on the bench causing your competition to negatively recruit the hell out of you for it. Bama, UGA, & Ohio St are annomylies.

Even with all that said recruiting isn't as much of a problem as some think it is, player development & Gus not trusting in more than 1 RB a year is as big or bigger factor IMO.

Recruiting wise this is what we have done at RB the past 4 years...

2018: #5 RB in Joiner although he will be a swiss army knife. #9 Asa. #10 All purpose Back in Worm
2017: #11 RB in Devan Barrett
2016: #7 APB in Kam Martin
2015: #5 RB in Kerryon & #1 Juco RB.

When you are consistently landing top 10 RBs like this developing depth from it should not be the problem Gus has allowed it to be.
 

[Barnacle 9,064]

7 minutes ago, ellitor said:

Again. I don't know how many times I have to say this,. There are not enough 5* & high 4* guys to go around for every team that has a rich RB history to get more than 1 in every 3 years or so, especiaslly when RB1 is getting run into the ground & the rest sitting on the bench causing your competition to negatively recruit the hell out of you for it. Bama, UGA, & Ohio St are annomylies.

Even with all that said recruiting isn't as much of a problem as some think it is, player development & Gus not trusting in more than 1 RB a year is as big or bigger factor IMO.

Recruiting wise this is what we have done at RB the past 4 years...

2018: #5 RB in Joiner although he will be a swiss army knife. #9 Asa. #10 All purpose Back in Worm
2017: #11 RB in Devan Barrett
2016: #7 APB in Kam Martin
2015: #5 RB in Kerryon & #1 Juco RB.

When you are consistently landing top 10 RBs like this developing depth from it should not be the problem Gus has allowed it to be.
 

I feel the best about this year's incoming class. Really excited about that group and a good example of the type of class I hope we continue to recruit. 

Asa is the prototype for what I would prefer.

[oracle79 3,569]

21 minutes ago, ellitor said:

Even with all that said recruiting isn't as much of a problem as some think it is, player development & Gus not trusting in more than 1 RB a year is as big or bigger factor IMO.

Exactly.  Hell, if we have a Herschel, Marcus Dupree, Henry, Jerome Bettis, James Bostic, Rudi Johnson, etc. then run them 40 frick'in times a game if you want.  We don't.  Not sure why Gus hasn't figured this out.  And, like E alluded, If you're not gonna play them, don't recruit and sign them.

[The Plainsman 948]

2 hours ago, McLoofus said:

Sony Michel was a 5* guy. He carried the ball 11 times a game last season and got drafted in the first round. 

As a Freshman?  And he thought Chubb would have been gone earlier.   No way the recruiting pitch was Hey Sony,. Come to GA where you will only get 11 touches a game...."      

Just out of curiosity,  how many carries a game did Asa get as a Sr in HS LY?   Does anyone know?

[The Plainsman 948]

2 hours ago, NorthGATiger said:

Nope. Like Caddy and Ronnie they were great teammates working together 

 

Caddy had plenty of 40 carry games.   Got stronger too as the game went on.  

[McLoofus 35,182]

3 hours ago, toddc said:

Part of the difference in this comparison is they had 2 5* backs to share the load. We had one healthy back and one injured (KP)trying to get a win. Then Georgia had a third back who was more capable than our next man up. I do get the argument we should have better prepared a viable option for when kJ got hurt as well.

Kam Martin and Malik Miller were healthy.

[McLoofus 35,182]

3 hours ago, Grumps said:

It is my guess that Chubb and Michel both griped for their UGA careers that they didn't get enough carries!

Why would you guess that? They both got drafted highly and they almost won a national championship together. They also both came back for their senior years.

[McLoofus 35,182]

1 hour ago, The Plainsman said:

Caddy had plenty of 40 carry games.   Got stronger too as the game went on.  

He had 2. One 41 carry game as a true frosh and one 40 carry game in 2003. 

As a senior, he only had 3 games over 20 carries and none over 25.

[The Plainsman 948]

37 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

He had 2. One 41 carry game as a true frosh and one 40 carry game in 2003. 

As a senior, he only had 3 games over 20 carries and none over 25.

#2 draft pick, S. Barkley  averaged right at 20 a game his JR year.   This does not include approx. 5 receiving touches a game   

His touches increased in the bigger games too.   To ya'lls point.  Over his career he averaged 17.65 rushing touches.     

 

RUSHING
SEASON	TEAM	G	ATT	YDS	TDS
2015-16	Penn State	11	182	1076	7
2016-17	Penn State	14	272	1496	18
2017-18	Penn State	13	217	1271	18
TOTAL		38	671	3843	43

RECEIVING
SEASON	TEAM	G	RECPT	YDS	TDS
2015-16	Penn State	11	20	161	1
2016-17	Penn State	14	28	402	4
2017-18	Penn State	13	54	632	3
TOTAL

 

Keryon Johnson stats over the entirety to include catches (total touches)  look pretty similar IMO.  

|

						Rushing				Receiving				Scrimmage
Year ▲	School	Conf	Class	Pos	G	Att	Yds	Avg	TD	Rec	Yds	Avg	TD	Plays	Yds	Avg	TD
*2015	Auburn	SEC	FR	RB	12	52	208	4.0	3	14	159	11.4	0	66	367	5.6	3
*2016	Auburn	SEC	SO	RB	12	182	895	4.9	11	17	125	7.4	0	199	1020	5.1	11
*2017	Auburn	SEC	JR	RB	12	285	1391	4.9	18	24	194	8.1	2	309	1585	5.1	20
Career	Auburn					519	2494	4.8	32	55	478	8.7	2	574	2972	5.2	34

[The Plainsman 948]

One last piece.  

Barkley averaged 20 touches a game over his career at PSU.  #2 pick overall   

K Johnson averaged 15.94 touches a game over his career at Auburn.  2nd round pick.  

[Gowebb11 9,314]

8 hours ago, bigbird said:

No offense taken.  I don't really know about other schools, but if a coach tells a RB prospect "AU hasn't had a back make it through the season healthy in 8 years", then it's going to resonate.

The past 2 seasons have been rough for sure, but I don’t recall Dyer, Mason, CAP, and Barber having significant injury issues. Maybe I am forgetting something.  That said, I am in the camp of spreading carries more, and keeping guys fresh. 

[Mikey 16,576]

6 hours ago, ellitor said:

KP wasn't injured most of the time & wasn't al all the last half of the season. He was too busy enjoying the hazzy life a lot to worry about being a good teammate enough to get hazzy only in moderation.

Stubborn or not, Gus didn't have Chubb, Michel and that #7 to choose from. He expected to have KJ and Pettway and then Pettway flubbed out, as noted above. It's easy to rotate backs when you have three 5* types and two of those are seniors, all ready to go. UGA had that and UAT usually has something like that. We haven't had that since Ronnie and Caddy.

You can wish we had recruited better, but comparing giving the ball to an unproven underclassman with giving it to a senior Sony Michel isn't valid. We won't know what the current staff would do until we get two top of the line backs ready, willing and able at the same time. When that might happen is anybody's guess. Maybe Shivers and Asa Martin can be a great setup. In the meantime, you can't run a spare 5* back into the game if you don't have one and if you don't have a spare, 280 carries in a season is not too many.

[Beaker 2,457]

Where is my magic wand?   If I could change one thing about our coach's style - it might be how he preps and locks in one RB. I sat and watched him run Pettway into the ground against Mercer for goodness sakes.  Crazy?  Lack of vision?   STubborn?  IDK, but I would change that attribute in his philosophy.  

Also, I wish he used or trusted analytics for trends.  

Sorry, we probably need to get this thread back on track.