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2019 4* RB Derrian Brown


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4 hours ago, The Plainsman said:

One last piece.  

Barkley averaged 20 touches a game over his career at PSU.  #2 pick overall   

K Johnson averaged 15.94 touches a game over his career at Auburn.  2nd round pick.  

With due respect, you are still missing the picture. It's not about total carries or total carries per game. It's about the inordinate amount of carries & workload our RB1s are getting in our biggest games. Those are the most taxing.

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6 hours ago, ellitor said:

With due respect, you are still missing the picture. It's not about total carries or total carries per game. It's about the inordinate amount of carries & workload our RB1s are getting in our biggest games. Those are the most taxing.

Barkley’s carries increased quite a bit in the biggest games as well.  Against Iowa in that game they loss,  he had over 30 touches.   

Not missing the point,  just stating that digging deeper may prove your point to be less valid.  

Now if we talk Fournette..  I think his numbers would look interesting..as he simply chose to sit himself.   ?.  

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18 minutes ago, The Plainsman said:

Barkley’s carries increased quite a bit in the biggest games as well.  Against Iowa in that game they loss,  he had over 30 touches.   

Not missing the point,  just stating that digging deeper may prove your point to be less valid.  

Now if we talk Fournette..  I think his numbers would look interesting..as he simply chose to sit himself.   ?.  

That's fair. There are definitely examples that contradict what we are saying. Question is, are there enough examples to render our point invalid, or are they just exceptions to the rule? The same can be asked of the examples we, or at least I, have used to support our/my argument, such as uga's backfield this past season. Certainly, most schools couldn't dream of having a Michel and a Chubb at the same time. All matters of opinion. Good debate. 

At the end of the day, though, we played the SECCG with healthy RBs watching an unhealthy RB fail, and we don't have a commitment from a top back yet in this cycle. So I'm going to keep wringing my hands until those things change. Fortunately on the former, Horton has acknowledged it and expressed the need to change. And if we get a good one in this class, then I've got nothing to gripe about until Labor Day. 

 

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On Derrian: I’m not super impressed with his tape as it feels like the staff is settling and we just want a body at this spot. 

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KJ,  being a good back, was drafted lower than Chubb/Michel not because he was over used. When we have 2 backs with sec  caliber skillsets you'll see more than one back get the carries. 

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7 minutes ago, creed said:

KJ,  being a good back, was drafted lower than Chubb/Michel not because he was over used. When we have 2 backs with sec  caliber skillsets you'll see more than one back get the carries. 

Agree with the draft part, but what we agree on and what our sales pitch is vs that of our competitors are different things unfortunately. 

As for the 2nd part, Kam Martin got 10 carries between our 2 games in December and he was at the top of the depth chart by April, where he remains.

We did not use or coach the position properly last season. Tim Horton acknowledged it in the spring and hopefully this will be a moot conversation this time next year.

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8 minutes ago, creed said:

KJ,  being a good back, was drafted lower than Chubb/Michel not because he was over used. When we have 2 backs with sec  caliber skillsets you'll see more than one back get the carries. 

That happened very recently. Just 2 years ago, Pettway rushed for over 1300 yards and KJ had over 900. Previous to that, in 2013 Mason had over 1800 yards, Nick Marshall over 900, and CAP over 600. The year we had Cam, both he and Dyer rushed for over 1000 yards, as did McFadden and Jones in Gus’s first year as OC at Arky. That’s spreading the carries around pretty good. So Gus’s load sharing history is solid when he’s got 2 healthy RBs and/or a running QB. This past season, I think you would have seen the same thing had KJ and KP been healthy at the same times. I do fault Gus for not giving KM more carries down the stretch, and still feel like we would’ve beaten UGA in the SECCG had he rode him instead of an injured KJ. Hopefully, we see a better rotation this season. 

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3 minutes ago, Gowebb11 said:

That happened very recently. Just 2 years ago, Pettway rushed for over 1300 yards and KJ had over 900. Previous to that, in 2013 Mason had over 1800 yards, Nick Marshall over 900, and CAP over 600. The year we had Cam, both he and Dyer rushed for over 1000 yards, as did McFadden and Jones in Gus’s first year as OC at Arky. That’s spreading the carries around pretty good. So Gus’s load sharing history is solid when he’s got 2 healthy RBs and/or a running QB. This past season, I think you would have seen the same thing had KJ and KP been healthy at the same times. I do fault Gus for not giving KM more carries down the stretch, and still feel like we would’ve beaten UGA in the SECCG had he rode him instead of an injured KJ. Hopefully, we see a better rotation this season. 

And if we get back to that kind of rotating, then don't be surprised if the recruiting picks up. Of course, we might see a staff change, also, which might make the cause and effect a little more, uh, fun to discuss....

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16 minutes ago, Gowebb11 said:

I do fault Gus for not giving KM more carries down the stretch, and still feel like we would’ve beaten UGA in the SECCG had he rode him instead of an injured KJ.

100% agree.

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40 minutes ago, bigbird said:

100% agree.

Part of my reasoning is for fresh legs in general, but I’m also a big KM fan.  I love his burst. I feel the same about Barrett. 

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17 hours ago, ellitor said:

Again. I don't know how many times I have to say this,. There are not enough 5* & high 4* guys to go around for every team that has a rich RB history to get more than 1 in every 3 years or so, especiaslly when RB1 is getting run into the ground & the rest sitting on the bench causing your competition to negatively recruit the hell out of you for it. Bama, UGA, & Ohio St are annomylies.

Even with all that said recruiting isn't as much of a problem as some think it is, player development & Gus not trusting in more than 1 RB a year is as big or bigger factor IMO.

Recruiting wise this is what we have done at RB the past 4 years...

2018: #5 RB in Joiner although he will be a swiss army knife. #9 Asa. #10 All purpose Back in Worm
2017: #11 RB in Devan Barrett 
2016: #7 APB in Kam Martin 
2015: #5 RB in Kerryon & #1 Juco RB.

When you are consistently landing top 10 RBs like this developing depth from it should not be the problem Gus has allowed it to be.
 

The problem is that those ratings are misleading.  Joiner is not the 5th best RB in last years class.  Auburn has no plans to even play him there according to some. 

Here is how 247 rated these guys.  I am not separating them by type of back.  Just where they rank as backs.  This isn't composite just 247

2018: (Joiner #19)  (Asa #13) ( Shivers #24 ) 

2017: (Devin Barrett  #14)

2016: ( Kam Martin #19)

2015: ( KJ #2 Athlete #4 RB)  ( Jovon #5)

2015 was a good year for us getting the #4 and #5 backs but after that is where we have struggled to me.  We have averaged the 17.8th best RB's since then.  DB isn't even playing RB now.

Where we disagree is that these were all top ten backs.  That is misleading.  One may be a #10 All purpose back but he is the 24th ranked RB.  My opinion is that you can't take 2 total backs in 2 years with one of them as a small APB and the other one now playing WR.

 

 

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2 hours ago, The Plainsman said:

Barkley’s carries increased quite a bit in the biggest games as well.  Against Iowa in that game they loss,  he had over 30 touches.   

Not missing the point,  just stating that digging deeper may prove your point to be less valid.  

Now if we talk Fournette..  I think his numbers would look interesting..as he simply chose to sit himself.   ?.  

Tell me how big Barkley is......  He is 5'-11" and 233 lbs.  That body type can easily take the extra carries compared to KJ.  KJ had to work hard just to get to 210

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2 hours ago, ClaytonAU said:

On Derrian: I’m not super impressed with his tape as it feels like the staff is settling and we just want a body at this spot. 

We seem to have done this in 2016 and 2017 as well.

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2 hours ago, McLoofus said:

Fortunately on the former, Horton has acknowledged it and expressed the need to change.

Yeah but getting Gus to actually change on that is an entirely different story.

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2 hours ago, ClaytonAU said:

On Derrian: I’m not super impressed with his tape as it feels like the staff is settling and we just want a body at this spot. 

Reminds me of Tre Mason in high school. Shorter kid who hasn't filled out yet & whose runs aren't flashy but gets the job done.

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18 minutes ago, NorthGATiger said:

The problem is that those ratings are misleading.  Joiner is not the 5th best RB in last years class.  Auburn has no plans to even play him there according to some. 

Here is how 247 rated these guys.  I am not separating them by type of back.  Just where they rank as backs.  This isn't composite just 247

2018: (Joiner #19)  (Asa #13) ( Shivers #24 ) 

2017: (Devin Barrett  #14)

2016: ( Kam Martin #19)

2015: ( KJ #2 Athlete #4 RB)  ( Jovon #5)

2015 was a good year for us getting the #4 and #5 backs but after that is where we have struggled to me.  We have averaged the 17.8th best RB's since then.  DB isn't even playing RB now.

Where we disagree is that these were all top ten backs.  That is misleading.  One may be a #10 All purpose back but he is the 24th ranked RB.  My opinion is that you can't take 2 total backs in 2 years with one of them as a small APB and the other one now playing WR.

Asa was 13th? Whoa.

I think Shivers just suffers from people fixating on his measurements. 

But your point stands. We're due for a top 5 type guy and we don't have a top anything type guy yet. 

Definitely doesn't help that Jovon, Roc and Alaric Williams all flamed out but that makes this class even more crucial. Well, Williams, anyway.

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2 hours ago, creed said:

KJ,  being a good back, was drafted lower than Chubb/Michel not because he was over used. When we have 2 backs with sec  caliber skillsets you'll see more than one back get the carries. 

Nice statement but that was never said nor implied. Just said you don't have to get a kahillion carries to get noticed by NFL & their scouts & to be drafted high. This has been echoed by nearly every NFL player, coach, reporter, & show & is pretty much accepted as fact. If you have ability the NFL will find & value you no matter your college workload.

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3 minutes ago, ellitor said:

Reminds me of Tre Mason in high school. Shorter kid who hasn't filled out yet & whose runs aren't flashy but gets the job done.

That would be nice.  Buford is to me one of the hardest schools to gauge talent at.  They have talent no doubt.  Sometimes it is hard to tell if it is due to the surrounding talent on the team.  But you are not playing there if you can't play football.

At RB some kids just jump off the screen as studs when you watch them.  It isn't the 80 yard TD's where they just had a huge hole and out ran everyone.  It is when they leave kids grabbing for air or getting ran over when they run that 80 yard TD.

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1 hour ago, NorthGATiger said:

It is when they leave kids grabbing for air or getting ran over when they run that 80 yard TD.

Yeah but the opportunity for that to happen in the SEC, for any RB no matter how talented they are, is rare. In the SEC you need guys that can hit the whole, have good vision, be explosive enough to have impact plays (10 yards or more) & have the body that can take the hits.

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17 minutes ago, NorthGATiger said:

At RB some kids just jump off the screen as studs when you watch them.  It isn't the 80 yard TD's where they just had a huge hole and out ran everyone.  It is when they leave kids grabbing for air or getting ran over when they run that 80 yard TD.

I was 100% certain that Roc Thomas was going to be the next Cadillac Williams. Best highlight film I've ever seen. I gushed and gushed about him on here.

None of the this is relevant. I guess I'm just pointing out an example of a guy who jumped off the screen like you're saying. Jovon Robinson was another. At least he was as good as advertised when his head was situated properly above his shoulders (and waist). 

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5 hours ago, McLoofus said:

That's fair. There are definitely examples that contradict what we are saying. Question is, are there enough examples to render our point invalid, or are they just exceptions to the rule? The same can be asked of the examples we, or at least I, have used to support our/my argument, such as uga's backfield this past season. Certainly, most schools couldn't dream of having a Michel and a Chubb at the same time. All matters of opinion. Good debate. 

At the end of the day, though, we played the SECCG with healthy RBs watching an unhealthy RB fail, and we don't have a commitment from a top back yet in this cycle. So I'm going to keep wringing my hands until those things change. Fortunately on the former, Horton has acknowledged it and expressed the need to change. And if we get a good one in this class, then I've got nothing to gripe about until Labor Day. 

 

 

4 hours ago, McLoofus said:

And if we get back to that kind of rotating, then don't be surprised if the recruiting picks up. Of course, we might see a staff change, also, which might make the cause and effect a little more, uh, fun to discuss....

 

3 hours ago, ellitor said:

Nice statement but that was never said nor implied. Just said you don't have to get a kahillion carries to get noticed by NFL & their scouts & to be drafted high. This has been echoed by nearly every NFL player, coach, reporter, & show & is pretty much accepted as fact. If you have ability the NFL will find & value you no matter your college workload.

To all,. Thanks for the discussion.  Pretty awesome one to say the least.     

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This cat Brown, just watched his highlights again or 5 minutes at least, he has very good vision and I like how he uses his hands at times to stiff arm or create distance from the would be tackler.   Runs north-south and doesn't shy away from contact (paging H Joiner).  SEC caliber?  He will be with the conditioning and development the SEC programs have.

 Is he a 'can't miss' RB?  No.   Probably would not see the field for 2-3 yrs would be my guess.   

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it appears we are still in the mix for a few top 15 backs.  We pull one of those guys then we probably say it was a success.  

Love the side bar convo btw.  It is relevant and is obviously a concern to many of us.

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I just watched his film also. There is a lot to like about him. He has great vision runs North\South but adjust to the blocking quickly to find a seam and then hits it fast. Pass catching is with his hands away from his body and on every pass he looked the ball in. He is listed at 5'11 and 185 I believe he is fairly strong and with a frame to easily get to 200 to 205 which is close to an ideal size for a RB. I don't know how fast he is but he is very quick and when he popped nobody caught him from behind. While there were a lot of highlights with long runs some of his harder short runs really impressed me. He was always going forward trying to get the 1st down. 

He is a legitimate 4* and if he can put on the meat without losing his speed and quickness he will be much better than I originally thought. He could easily be a 15-20 back a game guy who can run outside or between the tackles. Only saw onetime pass blocking good form on that but would need to see a lot more to rate that part of his game. Also keeps the ball tucked in tight and protects it when being tackled at least on the highlight film.

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