Pettway is a mess

[MaitlandTiger 325]

I don't know why Montavious Atkinson doesn't call a team meeting and say "Listen up, boys, drugs are bad for you.  I have seen a lot of players lose it all, in my 42 years on this Earth....."   

[I_M4_AU 7,792]

5 hours ago, Gowebb11 said:

It is a very thoughtful question and definitely requires a thoughtful answer. I can only offer what I believe and why I believe it. Whether it is a personal issue or medical one, we are not entitled to the specifics. But I don’t like the idea of ‘protecting’ the player. Who was protected here? The truth came out, and almost always does. If a player is injured, the coach simply needs to say they are injured. No details are required. But if they are out because of breaking rules, to say other wise is not holding them accountable, and every other player on the team is watching. So for me, specifics are not necessary, but the truth is. Long term, I believe it is best for the player and program. All that said, I wish nothing but the best for all our players. 

I totally agree with this, it’s not about the specifics, it’s about the issue.  We as fans don’t need to know the why, but we are entitled to know that our coach is speaking the truth, not the whole truth, but the truth.  By this I mean in recent years we had the “breaking of team rules” reason for not playing.  I hated that excuse, but I have grown to appreciate the reason behind the statement.

 @passthebiscuits Mentioned that he wished he had not made some of the mistakes he had made when he was younger, I think everybody does.  However, without those mistakes we are not the people that we are today and it seems PTB is a successful person.  The difference here is PTB learned from his mistake in a timely fashion, if people don’t feel there are consequences to their wrong decisions, learning has not taken place.

IMO, protecting the player only enables the wrong doings.  The player needs to understand the consequences, in a timely fashion, to be successful in his life.  Kicking the can down the road hoping he straightens out is risky for the both the institution and the individual.  Having said that, it takes the player to come to the realization he needs to make a change to in his life, the ole “leading a horse to water” thing.  The question the coaches have to make is how many chances do I give the player before I cut him loose?  A very hard decision. 

On another note; looking at problems from just a fan’s point of view and understanding the current Opioid epidemic, I can see someone seeing the injury issue related to substance abuse.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

13 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

IMO, protecting the player only enables the wrong doings.  The player needs to understand the consequences, in a timely fashion, to be successful in his life.  Kicking the can down the road hoping he straightens out is risky for the both the institution and the individual.  Having said that, it takes the player to come to the realization he needs to make a change to in his life, the ole “leading a horse to water” thing.  The question the coaches have to make is how many chances do I give the player before I cut him loose?  A very hard decision. 

I agree 100%. Enabling is a growing problem, especially in colleges, and not usually because the college is being negligent, but because frequently when they crack down, they get phone calls from parents throwing around the word "lawyer". My wife had to deal with that crap all of the time when she was in Student Life. They actually had a group of bullies file a discrimination suit against the school for kicking them out of on campus housing, and the bullies were represented by a lawyer who touts himself on his website as an anti-bullying advocate.

Before this topic turned into the crap storm that it was, I was going to point out that maybe one thing that could be considered is to be more hardcore with players in injury rehab, like implementing a 3-strike rule. After all, when they are constantly seeing a doctor/trainer, it's a lot harder to hide self-medicating, and when their day isn't slammed full of football, because they are sidelined, they have a lot more time on their hands to self-medicate (and possibly more motivation, because they are depressed about not playing). More often than not, the only way to help someone with a real problem is to help them find rock bottom, quickly, to help minimize the damage on the way down, and then be there for them when they decide to climb back up. 

[DAG 33,973]

The bigger issue is this. Is there any evidence that has shown duration of rehabilitation positively correlates to the struggles that SW and KP are going through ? Even if we just take statistics from auburn athletes ? We know the positive correlation between chronic pain and analgesic usage . However, this is a huge leap of assumption, which is why there was so much pushback .

[PoetTiger 1,896]

On 2/12/2018 at 4:39 PM, lionheartkc said:

Then I would argue that Dr. Goodlett needs to ask himself how players under his care can get so messed up on drugs that they are basically unable to return to the field after being very successful just a year prior... but that's just me.

Pettway was puffing the mary jane before he got to Auburn...it was a choice, not an injury coping mechanism.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

22 minutes ago, DAG said:

The bigger issue is this. Is there any evidence that has shown duration of rehabilitation positively correlates to the struggles that SW and KP are going through ? Even if we just take statistics from auburn athletes ? We know the positive correlation between chronic pain and analgesic usage . However, this is a huge leap of assumption, which is why there was so much pushback .

The thing I was most looking at was the fact that Pettway had a very successful season in 2016 with no talk of him being involved in off-the-field issues, at least none that I heard. Then, he got injured and had a lot of extra free time on his hands and went off the deep end. One thing to keep in mind is, part of what keeps some of these kids who have a propensity for trouble out of trouble is that they are too darn busy to be doing things they shouldn't (see the mission of after school programs and community centers), and they are expected to be certain places at certain times and perform at a certain level or face consequences. I imagine a good chunk of those expectations and consequences go away when they are hurt. 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

12 minutes ago, PoetTiger said:

Pettway was puffing the mary jane before he got to Auburn...it was a choice, not an injury coping mechanism.

You're right, smoking is not an injury coping mechanism. The only time I've heard of someone taking up pot because of medical reasons was when they were going through treatments that caused sever nausea or were in some form of hospice.

Smoking MORE because you are bored and/or depressed can be an injury coping mechanism. Also smoking more because you don't have to face the coach on the field every day can play a part.

[DAG 33,973]

1 minute ago, lionheartkc said:

The thing I was most looking at was the fact that Pettway had a very successful season in 2016 with no talk of him being involved in off-the-field issues, at least none that I heard. Then, he got injured and had a lot of extra free time on his hands and went off the deep end. One thing to keep in mind is, part of what keeps some of these kids who have a propensity for trouble out of trouble is that they are too darn busy to be doing things they shouldn't, and they are expected to be certain places at certain times and perform at a certain level or face consequences. I imagine a good chunk of those expectations and consequences go away when they are hurt. 

Okay and that’s fair . But that is an admission to KP not the rehab team. The rehab team job is not to monitor social behavior, although I will argue it is everyone job to monitor disruptive behaviors, especially if there is a trend . What I will say is I don’t think there is enough evidence for the rehab team to even take part into something like this , as there have been auburn athletes in the past, who have gone through a rehab regiment, with downtime and not have had these struggles. If a trend would’ve occurred that would be different . If anybody should be held to that standard it would have to be their teammates and/or positional coaches , head coach, parents, etc. I imagine they have much more of a feel of their behaviors than the rehab team. With that being said, I still hold my previous position. Just my opinion.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

6 minutes ago, DAG said:

Okay and that’s fair . But that is an admission to KP not the rehab team. The rehab team job is not to monitor social behavior, although I will argue it is everyone job to monitor disruptive behaviors, especially if there is a trend . What I will say is I don’t think there is enough evidence for the rehab team to even take part into something like this , as there have been auburn athletes in the past, who have gone through a rehab regiment, with downtime and not have had these struggles. If a trend would’ve occurred that would be different . If anybody should be held to that standard it would have to be their teammates and/or positional coaches , head coach, parents, etc. I imagine they have much more of a feel of their behaviors than the rehab team. With that being said, I still hold my previous position. Just my opinion.

Yea... and that's my question. Should it be the rehab's team to monitor social behavior? I know that, if they have him on pain meds, it's a concern for them because of possible interactions. So the question is, do we need to crack down on it so maybe we can prevent someone like Pettway from having something written about him like that?  From the little that passthebiscuits shared with me, I know that the trainers do feel like they are banging their head against the wall with some of these kids and I wonder if maybe they should be given the authority to say "get it together or get the heck out". I don't know, but I think it's worth a discussion. 

I totally respect your position, for the record.

[DAG 33,973]

16 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

Yea... and that's my question. Should it be the rehab's team to monitor social behavior? I know that, if they have him on pain meds, it's a concern for them because of possible interactions. So the question is, do we need to crack down on it so maybe we can prevent someone like Pettway from having something written about him like that?  From the little that passthebiscuits shared with me, I know that the trainers do feel like they are banging their head against the wall with some of these kids and I wonder if maybe they should be given the authority to say "get it together or get the heck out". I don't know, but I think it's worth a discussion. 

I totally respect your position, for the record.

Well the doctor will monitor medication and behavioral aspects of this . Now , in the instance of rehab. I think it’s unfair to ask them to monitor what someone might or might not be doing on their downtime. For one , they have such small time with the client. During that time, the client can be showing zero signs of trouble behavior. In fact, this can be a positive outlet for the player. Now if something is off, say the player has had an acute change of behavior during a session . Sure there should be something said and taken to the appropriate party. But anyone can do this. Ownership shouldn’t be primary charged to rehab 

[keesler 5,924]

32 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

Yea... and that's my question. Should it be the rehab's team to monitor social behavior? I know that, if they have him on pain meds, it's a concern for them because of possible interactions. So the question is, do we need to crack down on it so maybe we can prevent someone like Pettway from having something written about him like that?  From the little that passthebiscuits shared with me, I know that the trainers do feel like they are banging their head against the wall with some of these kids and I wonder if maybe they should be given the authority to say "get it together or get the heck out". I don't know, but I think it's worth a discussion. 

I totally respect your position, for the record.

NEVER!  The last thing any sports team needs is a trainer in a position of authority to make a decision that only the HC or AD should be making.   I don't want a rehab team monitoring a patients social behavior either, what would be the purpose?  So they can tattle to the coach?

The notion that an injured player has tons of time on their hands is ludicrous as well.  They're still required to do 100% of their class work.  They are still required to attend all team meetings, position meetings, and workout with the team even if they are limited.  They may not be able to have contact on the field, but they will still be in the film room watching film and carrying on the normal required day to day team obligations just as if they were 100% + they have to follow the rehab regime/schedule too. 

Hell, this is standard operating procedure in high school football in my neck of the woods.  My son had a football injury to his shoulder that required surgery last season, and his was expected to be in every meeting, in every film study and at every workout with his teammates unless he was working on the sideline with a trainer or at the rehab center getting therapy.  His down time/leisure time didn't change one bit because he walked around in an arm sling for 4-5 weeks.  If the team was practicing on the field, then he was riding a bike on the sidelines or keeping a stop watch for a coach, or holding a clipboard.

 

 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

1 minute ago, DAG said:

Well the doctor will monitor medication and behavioral aspects of this . Now , in the instance of rehab. I think it’s unfair to ask them to monitor what someone might or might not be doing on their downtime. For one , they have such small time with the client. During that time, the client can be showing zero signs of trouble behavior. In fact, this can be a positive outlet for the player. Now if something is off, say the player has had an acute change of behavior during a session . Sure there should be something said and taken to the appropriate party. But anyone can do this. Ownership shouldn’t be primary charged to rehab 

I think we are talking on two different sides of this. I'm not saying those providing the rehab should be required to monitor a players social activities, I'm saying that maybe they should be empowered to lay down the law if it is obvious that something is amiss there. 

[DAG 33,973]

17 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

I think we are talking on two different sides of this. I'm not saying those providing the rehab should be required to monitor a players social activities, I'm saying that maybe they should be empowered to lay down the law if it is obvious that something is amiss there. 

They absolutely should not . Proper people need to be consulted . That would still put the onus on them.

[keesler 5,924]

5 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

I think we are talking on two different sides of this. I'm not saying those providing the rehab should be required to monitor a players social activities, I'm saying that maybe they should be empowered to lay down the law if it is obvious that something is amiss there. 

NOPE!

A rehab associate has no business or right to lay down the law to any patient/client they service.  

[lionheartkc 6,150]

1 minute ago, keesler said:

NEVER!  The last thing any sports team needs is a trainer in a position of authority to make a decision that only the HC or AD should be making.   I don't want a rehab team monitoring a patients social behavior either, what would be the purpose?  So they can tattle to the coach?

The notion that an injured player has tons of time on their hands is ludicrous as well.  They're still required to do 100% of their class work.  They are still required to attend all team meetings, position meetings, and workout with the team even if they are limited.  They may not be able to have contact on the field, but they will still be in the film room watching film and carrying on the normal required day to day team obligations just as if they were 100% + they have to follow the rehab regime/schedule too. 

Hell, this is standard operating procedure in high school football in my neck of the woods.  My son had a football injury to his shoulder that required last season, and his was expected to be in every meeting, in every film study and at every workout with his teammates unless he was working on the sideline with a trainer or at the rehab center getting therapy.  His down time/leisure time didn't change one bit because he walked around in an arm sling for 4-5 weeks.  If the team was practicing on the field, then he was riding a bike on the sidelines or keeping a stop watch for a coach, or holding a clipboard.

First, I would never expect the trainer to be the one in the position of authority, just the front of line to see what's going on. And, yes, if they know something is off, so they can tattle to the coach, or their boss, or whoever is the authority in this situation. We're talking about kids screwing up their lives here, not some grade school rule breaking. 

I'm glad to hear that your experience is that they don't have more free time. That hasn't been my experience with the couple of athletes I knew who got injured. They spent a lot of time sitting around in TENS machines bitching about the fact that they weren't on the field. 

[DAG 33,973]

For example, a PT may be working with a patient. That patient may be a diabetic and the PT knows the patient is not following their diet regiment , so  their blood sugar is ask risk for being all out of wack. Is the PT just going to call off therapy services ? No! They have to go to the right sources and meet as a team to discuss the proper avenues , as glycemic control can affect all aspects of the patients health.

edit: and btw , everyone could do this. The CNA, The unit coordinator , the transporter,  the respiratory therapist , rehab tech , x ray tech.

[keesler 5,924]

5 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

First, I would never expect the trainer to be the one in the position of authority, just the front of line to see what's going on. And, yes, if they know something is off, so they can tattle to the coach, or their boss, or whoever is the authority in this situation. We're talking about kids screwing up their lives here, not some grade school rule breaking. 

I'm glad to hear that your experience is that they don't have more free time. That hasn't been my experience with the couple of athletes I knew who got injured. They spent a lot of time sitting around in TENS machines bitching about the fact that they weren't on the field. 

What?

In one post you say, "I wonder if they (trainers) should be given the authority to say "get it together or get the heck out."  Then you follow that up with "Should the rehab team monitor social behavior?", then you go on the say "I'm saying that maybe they should be empowered to lay down the law."

Trainers and rehab associates provide a service, they are not social workers or behavior specialists and should never under any circumstances be placed in a position of authority where they have the power to lay down the law or tell an athlete to get the heck out.  

 

 

 

 

[alexava 6,973]

I had to scroll through the last two pages. I just can't read anymore of this. 

[keesler 5,924]

4 minutes ago, alexava said:

I had to scroll through the last two pages. I just can't read anymore of this. 

I'm leaving altogether ~ this s#!t has ventured so far into the weeds that it's counterproductive on any level.

[McLoofus 35,182]

1 minute ago, keesler said:

I'm leaving altogether ~ this s#!t has ventured so far into the weeds that it's counterproductive on any level.

Pettway's a mess, this thread is a mess... life is a circle...

[lionheartkc 6,150]

1 minute ago, keesler said:

What?

In one post you say, "I wonder if they (trainers) should be given the authority to say "get it together or get the heck out."  Then you follow that up with "Should the rehab team monitor social behavior?", then you go on the say "I'm saying that maybe they should be empowered to lay down the law."

Trainers and rehab associates provide a service, they are not social workers or behavior specialists and should never under any circumstances be placed in a position of authority where they have the power to lay down the law or tell an athlete to get the heck out.  

See that word that YOU added. When I was speaking of "they" a was speaking of the medical staff/rehab team as a whole. You choose to read it as trainers. I would be the absolute last person to say we should let college kids, which a lot of trainers are, make those kinds of decisions on their own or tell a fellow college kid something like that. 

In your second example, the words used are "rehab team" as in team of people. You're twisting this just to create an argument.

[AUsince72 11,084]

6 minutes ago, keesler said:

I'm leaving altogether ~ this s#!t has ventured so far into the weeds that it's counterproductive on any level.

 

[AUsince72 11,084]

4 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Pettway's a mess, this thread is a mess... life is a circle...

The argument is certainly a circle.  

Much more interesting when the thread wasn't serious.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

Makes me sad to hear that so many of you would rather wash your hands of someone that you spent all of 2016 praising than discuss how we might have been able to help him more than we were able to. I hope everyone involved in the football program is looking to see if there is anything more we can do to help kids like him.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

2 minutes ago, AUsince72 said:

 

Thanks for the levity. You and @McLoofus's sense of humor is always appreciated.