Offense Needs to Change

[McLoofus 35,182]

26 minutes ago, Mikey said:

I agree we don't HAVE to have another such discussion, but that's what the usual suspects are trying to turn this into.

Everyone has their own agenda but you make a good point.

[Mikey 16,578]

On 2/22/2018 at 8:24 AM, McLoofus said:

As for the difference in perception between the two that somebody mentioned, I would argue that the defense was much more consistent than the offense. The point differential between their worst game and their best game was 27 points (we gave up 7 to Ga So. and 34 to UCF). The point differential between the offense's worst and best games was 46 (6 vs Clemson, 52 vs Arky). And those aren't outliers. *We scored less than 10 twice and more than 50 twice. Meanwhile, the defense only gave up more than 30 once, and that was in the bowl game. 

 

"We scored less than ten twice". Both times against an opponent that was in college football's "final four". Gee, do you think that the opponent might have had something to do with it?

[McLoofus 35,182]

22 minutes ago, AU64 said:

Look deeper....Of the top total offense teams in the NCAA stats, about all are coached by offensive coaches and most of those coaches call their own plays....and tell me that Kingsbury or Petrino or the "pirate" don't lay some eggs. too.  The list of HCs calling plays for top offenses is too long to list here. 

https://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/current/team/21

As Mikey noted, the real purpose of this thread is pretty clear because the arguments being made hold no water whatsoever. 

How many head coaches in the playoffs call plays? Last 2 years? Last 3?

[McLoofus 35,182]

Just now, Mikey said:

"We scored less than ten twice". Both times against an opponent that was in college football's "final four". Gee, do you think that the opponent might have had something to do with it?

Of course they do. But they don't excuse 117 yards of total offense. 

Gus is susceptible to mind numbingly poor days in the office. 

[AU64 10,122]

2 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

How many head coaches in the playoffs call plays? Last 2 years? Last 3?

What's that got to do with anything ?   We started off talking about changing the offense...with no good reason for doing so except that someone thought we needed a better offense....and nothing to back up that comment except he apparently does not like Gus.

Offensive HCs usually call their own plays....period.......that's almost not debatable.  

As someone suggested earlier,  hire a defensive HC and then you can give the OC full reign like they do at bama.....oh....wait a minute.....do I remember seeing Nick dabble in the play calling and reaming out his OC because he did not like a play call...?     I do believe I did....on a number of occasions. 

[keesler 5,924]

I've just never had an issue with Gus running his own show.  In fact, I've gotten irritated as hell the last 3 yrs when people pick & choose games to bash Gus for "meddling" when the offense doesn't execute at a high level and turn right around and claim he stepped away from the play calling when the offense looks great.  A good HC is intimately involved with every piece of his team,  he should meddle - it's his job.

Gus had to prove whether he could sink or swim in the SEC his first 5 yrs.  Now the man is swimming in the Benjamin's, the Auburn Administration is perfectly fine with the job he is doing.  

 

 

[AUfan_UAgrad 230]

11 hours ago, corchjay said:

You serious Clark?  

Gus is the head coach.  He is the face of the program.  It’s his team and he can do what he wants as it should be.  

If he shouldn’t be running the show then we should let him go.  

Never said he shouldn't be running the show.  That doesn't mean you have to call the plays.  I think he is a great offensive minded coach and can game plan very well.  I think his in game coaching is where he is starting to lose it.  His ability to adapt in game when things are not working seems to be greatly lacking.  It's like its the game plan or bust.  That's really more what I meant by taking the play sheet from his hands.  He has gone back and forth with allowing the OC to call plays.  There has be numerous debates about who is actually calling the plays.

[corchjay 5,311]

Not questioning anyone’s fandom but it’s time to back this coaching staff.  Thick or thin until it’s time to let them go.  Now is not that time.  I’m not saying you can’t criticize the coach but if you want to take that next step which the next step would be conf and national championships then our recruiting needs a slight uptick.  Just mildly higher.  Get a couple top 5 classes to go with the usual top ten we regularly get.  That puts you in the category with OSU, bama, Clemson, and now UGA.  So as I have mentioned before players and recruits read these boards, I know for a fact, and if they see the fan bases bombing the coaches that they care about what do you think that says to the recruit? Higher talented means more explosive offense, better defense, and a more solid special teams.  

And everyone has already heard my dads theory on talent... “you can’t make chicken salad out of chicken s**t”

[McLoofus 35,182]

21 minutes ago, AU64 said:

What's that got to do with anything ?   We started off talking about changing the offense...with no good reason for doing so except that someone thought we needed a better offense....and nothing to back up that comment except he apparently does not like Gus.

Semantic debates are so exhausting and dumb. Change, improve... this has already been covered.

Quote

Offensive HCs usually call their own plays....period.......that's almost not debatable.  

Dabo Swinney doesn't call his own plays. Mark Richt gave up playcalling duties at uga. Big damned difference between not and almost not, I reckon.

Quote

As someone suggested earlier,  hire a defensive HC and then you can give the OC full reign like they do at bama.....oh....wait a minute.....do I remember seeing Nick dabble in the play calling and reaming out his OC because he did not like a play call...?     I do believe I did....on a number of occasions. 

Man. You guys really are something. Nobody said that Gus shouldn't even dabble. Nobody said anything remotely like that. 

Like I said, exhausting. This board really doesn't have much capacity for nuance or the color gray. 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

31 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

How many head coaches in the playoffs call plays? Last 2 years? Last 3?

Do you mean in the way Gus called the plays last year, as in directing their offensive coordinator how he wants the plays called? I'm pretty sure both Saban and Dabo do that to an extent (Saban much more so now that he got rid of Kiffin). I'm pretty positive that Riley is all over the offensive play book, since he was the OC just last year. I don't think Kirby is overly involved in their offense. So... last year I'm thinking 3 out of 4 head coaches are highly involved in how their offense is run.

[McLoofus 35,182]

24 minutes ago, keesler said:

In fact, I've gotten irritated as hell the last 3 yrs when people pick & choose games to bash Gus for "meddling" when the offense doesn't execute at a high level and turn right around and claim he stepped away from the play calling when the offense looks great. 

Except...

Umm...

[McLoofus 35,182]

1 minute ago, lionheartkc said:

Do you mean in the way Gus called the plays last year, as in directing their offensive coordinator how he wants the plays called? I'm pretty sure both Saban and Dabo do that to an extent (Saban much more so now that he got rid of Kiffin). I'm pretty positive that Riley is all over the offensive play book, since he was the OC just last year. I don't think Kirby is overly involved in their offense. So... last year I'm thinking 3 out of 4 head coaches are highly involved in how their offense is run.

This is where we're back to either believing that his involvement in the playcalling changed or it didn't. 

Also, I said what I said, which is what 64 said. "Calling the plays". 

[AUsince72 11,084]

I just think we are all entitled to our own opinion and this is a forum specifically created for debate of the different opinions.

The problems in these threads and where they start to melt down is when the Opinion Police posters start in.

Almost all of us PAY to be Auburn people/fans (school, tickets, travel, gear, etc).  I think the guy who gets PAID (obscene amounts of cash) can take some honest criticism since a Paying Audience is why they make all this money.

If you don't like that reality "permeates" every thread then perhaps there should be a Sunshine Only section.  But just telling realistic posters that they're negative isn't an argument, it's just name calling.

Our good buddy @lionheartkc catches a bit of grief but at least he backs up his opinions with actual "facts & stuff".  Instead of just yelling "GET OFF MY LAWN" in every thread.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

7 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

This is where we're back to either believing that his involvement in the playcalling changed or it didn't. 

Also, I said what I said, which is what 64 said. "Calling the plays". 

Last year Gus got so sick of the rumors of him calling the plays that he kept the mouthpiece up on his headset most of the time, didn't even carry a play card a lot of the time, and was noticeably out of position on the field to call the plays the majority of the time.

I'm 100% with @keesler on this one. The whole Gus calls the plays when we flounder and doesn't when we don't thing is 100% speculation with no facts to back it up, which has been repeated so many times that people think it's the truth. There are plenty of horses in the field for every game we lost. There's no need to go looking for zebras.  

[McLoofus 35,182]

1 minute ago, lionheartkc said:

Last year Gus got so sick of the rumors of him calling the plays that he kept the mouthpiece up on his headset most of the time, didn't even carry a play card a lot of the time, and was noticeably out of position on the field to call the plays the majority of the time.

I'm 100% with @keesler on this one. The whole Gus calls the plays when we flounder and doesn't when we don't thing is 100% speculation with no facts to back it up, which has been repeated so many times that people think it's the truth. There are plenty of horses in the field for every game we lost. There's no need to go looking for zebras.  

 

10 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Except...

Umm...

 

[NorthGATiger 1,801]

1 minute ago, McLoofus said:

Except...

Umm...

Exactly.  The biggest problem is that when Gus really needs to change things to accommodate injuries and such he does not do it.  Even when his OC has excelled in the past where we need the changes made.  2017 SEC Championship game is the glaring prime example.  Unborn children know that KJ can't play and that any contributions he provides will absolutely not win the game for us.  So what does Gus do?  He changes the gameplan to more of a passing attack and utilizes his other running backs right.  Hell no.  He runs the exact same thing as he did in game 1 with KJ crippled.  Like UGA was going to play us the same way.  And to further infuriate the masses in his post game interview when asked about playing another RB during the game he says some stupid a$$ crap like kj is the one who got us here and we have full confidence in him.

How can any of you not agree that this is the most bull headed, unimaginative, narcissistic coach on the planet?  The gameplan for the SEC Championship game is the exact example why people can't get behind Gus even when you point out the good things he does.  The guy is infuriating. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

21 minutes ago, corchjay said:

Not questioning anyone’s fandom but it’s time to back this coaching staff.  Thick or thin until it’s time to let them go.  Now is not that time.  I’m not saying you can’t criticize the coach but if you want to take that next step which the next step would be conf and national championships then our recruiting needs a slight uptick.  Just mildly higher.  Get a couple top 5 classes to go with the usual top ten we regularly get.  That puts you in the category with OSU, bama, Clemson, and now UGA.  So as I have mentioned before players and recruits read these boards, I know for a fact, and if they see the fan bases bombing the coaches that they care about what do you think that says to the recruit? Higher talented means more explosive offense, better defense, and a more solid special teams.  

And everyone has already heard my dads theory on talent... “you can’t make chicken salad out of chicken s**t”

You're right about recruiting but you're wrong to think that a recruit is going to choose another school because their coach never gets critiqued on message boards. And I feel I'm being fairly diplomatic here.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

Just now, McLoofus said:

You're right about recruiting but you're wrong to think that a recruit is going to choose another school because their coach never gets critiqued on message boards. And I feel I'm being fairly diplomatic here.

Agreed... That being said, the constant hot seat talk over the past 2+ years didn't do us any favors on the recruiting trail. That's the silver lining around the latest in the line of Sexton's outrageous contracts.

[AUsince72 11,084]

1 minute ago, McLoofus said:

You're right about recruiting but you're wrong to think that a recruit is going to choose another school because their coach never gets critiqued on message boards. And I feel I'm being fairly diplomatic here.

I imagine this board is T.A.M.E. by so many other schools' standards...

[AUfan_UAgrad 230]

8 minutes ago, NorthGATiger said:

Exactly.  The biggest problem is that when Gus really needs to change things to accommodate injuries and such he does not do it.  Even when his OC has excelled in the past where we need the changes made.  2017 SEC Championship game is the glaring prime example.  Unborn children know that KJ can't play and that any contributions he provides will absolutely not win the game for us.  So what does Gus do?  He changes the gameplan to more of a passing attack and utilizes his other running backs right.  Hell no.  He runs the exact same thing as he did in game 1 with KJ crippled.  Like UGA was going to play us the same way.  And to further infuriate the masses in his post game interview when asked about playing another RB during the game he says some stupid a$$ crap like kj is the one who got us here and we have full confidence in him.

How can any of you not agree that this is the most bull headed, unimaginative, narcissistic coach on the planet?  The gameplan for the SEC Championship game is the exact example why people can't get behind Gus even when you point out the good things he does.  The guy is infuriating. 

Ok I agree with everything except for " most unimaginative, narcissistic coach on the planet?".  Bull headed and stubborn no doubt.  But everything else IMO is spot on and the main things I have issues with on Gus.

[I_M4_AU 7,801]

19 hours ago, lionheartkc said:

I don't think that's good enough, we need someone who can analyze the game as it is happening and develop plans B, C, and D on the fly, based on what they are seeing. Gus has never shown this ability, even as an OC, and he's even stated it's not his philosophy. He believes that failure of Plan A is just failure of execution (which might be true, but at some point you have to cut bait). Maybe Chip can be the guy and Gus will give it a shot.

I can’t agree with this more.  To go a step further, some coach will have to be in Gus’ ear when things appear to be going south with alternatives.  It will be Gus that will have to determine if plan A is not working and go to plan B.  When things go perfectly, there is no in game adjustments (coaching) needed, but when things aren’t “normal” is when a coach earns his reputation.  That is the essence of a good (successful) coach.  Gus has had the tendancy to ride the plan until it’s just too late to make a difference in games.

[McLoofus 35,182]

4 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

Agreed... That being said, the constant hot seat talk over the past 2+ years didn't do us any favors on the recruiting trail. That's the silver lining around the latest in the line of Sexton's outrageous contracts.

In all my anti-sunshine pumper talk, I don't think that I've made it clear enough that I agree that there *has* been a lot of bashing that I personally consider to be way over the top.

You make a good point here.

I'm eager to see what the vibe around the program is in a world where Gus's job is ironclad secure.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

3 minutes ago, NorthGATiger said:

How can any of you not agree that this is the most bull headed, unimaginative, narcissistic coach on the planet?

Because I've never met him personally or heard anyone who worked directly with him say anything like that about him. I only hear that from message board posters who also have never met him. All I hear from people who work with him is that he's a very generous human being who is absolutely great to work with (and yes, I've actually heard some of that, not just read it). Of course, people are usually going to be generous in vocalizing their opinion about someone who outranks them, but let's contrast this with Saban, who has been frequently referred to as a self-centered, control freak tyrant with very little compassion by people he has worked with (again, also heard from the source, not just read).

I think the bull headed part could be true.  Most coaches are. 

I've heard the exact opposite in regard to the unimaginative part. In fact, I've heard that he is very imaginative. What I've seen is that he's not imaginative on the fly. I get that as I'm a bit the same way. I need time and the right stimulation to get my creativity going.

The narcissistic thing is just people venting because they don't like his coaching style. Everything about him points to him being a very carrying and often times selfless person.

[corchjay 5,311]

1 minute ago, McLoofus said:

In all my anti-sunshine pumper talk, I don't think that I've made it clear enough that I agree that there *has* been a lot of bashing that I personally consider to be way over the top.

You make a good point here.

I'm eager to see what the vibe around the program is in a world where Gus's job is ironclad secure.

Already heard it was a Big Deal to Bo Nix.  Which I think he was AU bound anyway but the head of the next class saying that shows you how big it is to have stability 

[NorthGATiger 1,801]

2 minutes ago, AUfan_UAgrad said:

Ok I agree with everything except for " most unimaginative, narcissistic coach on the planet?".  Bull headed and stubborn no doubt.  But everything else IMO is spot on.

I'll take 2 out of 4 lol.  But the question is if you don't use the ability that you used in the past that made you imaginative then are you still imaginative 7 years later when you are not imaginative anymore?  Lol!  Our run up the middle when we try to go up tempo is a prime example.  Same exact play for 5 years.