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2019 5* OT Wanya Morris (1/18/20 Transfers to OU)


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49 minutes ago, WarDamnEagleWDE said:

The prospect pool of elite OT's just isn't there. The top ones are either committed or leaning to other schools now. We will see what AU does. There are a couple in Georgia and Florida. But we trail big for these guys. 

This is looking like LB recruiting from several years ago.  Since striking out with Martez Ivey, Ashley has been our only big time OT recruit...but he's looking softer than Leon Hart.  This is not good.

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30 minutes ago, AUDevil said:

This is looking like LB recruiting from several years ago.  Since striking out with Martez Ivey, Ashley has been our only big time OT recruit...but he's looking softer than Leon Hart.  This is not good.

He is softer than Leon Hart. 

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1 hour ago, WarDamnEagleWDE said:

The prospect pool of elite OT's just isn't there. The top ones are either committed or leaning to other schools now. We will see what AU does. There are a couple in Georgia and Florida. But we trail big for these guys. 

And 1 in Michigan Keith thinks AU can be a factor with.

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A great question at this point is, now that we are back to having a solid fundamentals coach working with the line, do we need elite linemen or can we create something solid with just good linemen?  There aren't that many elite linemen to go around, so other teams are obviously succeeding with what they can get.

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6 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

A great question at this point is, now that we are back to having a solid fundamentals coach working with the line, do we need elite linemen or can we create something solid with just good linemen?  There aren't that many elite linemen to go around, so other teams are obviously succeeding with what they can get.

You always need elite OL and DL.  That is the foundation that everything is built on.  5* QBs, WRs, and RBs won't matter if we have a good technician getting overworked in the trenches.  The same can be said about the defense.  I don't care how good your MLB is;  if your DL sux then he is getting killed at the 2nd level.  Grimes is a good teacher but he ain't a magician.

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1 minute ago, NorthGATiger said:

You always need elite OL and DL.  That is the foundation that everything is built on.  5* QBs, WRs, and RBs won't matter if we have a good technician getting overworked in the trenches.  The same can be said about the defense.  I don't care how good your MLB is;  if your DL sux then he is getting killed at the 2nd level.  Grimes is a good teacher but he ain't a magician.

Yes but to Lion's point Guys can be coached up to elite more so on the OL than almost any other position.

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3 minutes ago, ellitor said:

Yes but to Lion's point Guys can be coached up to elite more so on the OL than almost any other position.

You can be coached up.  Everyone can.  I am not of the belief you are going to make an average OL elite.  The Elite guys have balance, footwork, strength, agility, intelligence, and an attitude.  There is only so much you can do with technique if you lack these attributes.  I'm sure it helps but I definitely would not say Auburn can miss on Elite prospects because we have a good coach.

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7 minutes ago, NorthGATiger said:

You can be coached up.  Everyone can.  I am not of the belief you are going to make an average OL elite.  The Elite guys have balance, footwork, strength, agility, intelligence, and an attitude.  There is only so much you can do with technique if you lack these attributes.  I'm sure it helps but I definitely would not say Auburn can miss on Elite prospects because we have a good coach.

Somebody's got to miss on them. There aren't that many elite ones to go around. How many elite prospects would you say there are this round? And how many teams are vying for them? I think it's far more important to be able to take the good ones and make them great.

Also, don't forget that our last elite OL recruit apparently doesn't have the attitude part or we wouldn't be struggling to get him ready to play.

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1 minute ago, lionheartkc said:

Somebody's got to miss on them. There aren't that many elite ones to go around. How many elite prospects would you say there are this round? And how many teams are vying for them? I think it's far more important to be able to take the good ones and make them great.

I think what WDE is trying to say is that there are not very many good ones to try and get.  We are very late to the game on them.

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2 hours ago, WarDamnEagleWDE said:

Told the new OT is legit. And I do believe Stidham is very happy, he is the one who really closed the deal. He was signed to start. Our existing OT's are just very average at best. 

That makes me both happy and sad at the same time. LT?

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https://scout.com/college/auburn/Season/2019-Football/Targets?PositionGroup=O-LINE

 

This list will show most that we have offered but surely not all.  Most of these kids are cool on us.

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4 minutes ago, NorthGATiger said:

I think what WDE is trying to say is that there are not very many good ones to try and get.  We are very late to the game on them.

That's my point is that there aren't very many really great ones in high school, period, so you have to be able to identify the ones who can become great and coach'em up. I'm not saying don't take a shot at the elite ones who are out there, just that you need to be able to coach what you can get, because there aren't enough to go around.

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8 minutes ago, NorthGATiger said:

I am not of the belief you are going to make an average OL elite. 

Facts disagree with your opinion. Elite would be considered playing at a 5* level correct? Well there have been many many kids rated as 4, 3, & even 2 *s over the years that ended up playing at a 5* level & will continue to be.

11 minutes ago, NorthGATiger said:

The Elite guys have balance, footwork, strength, agility, intelligence, and an attitude. There is only so much you can do with technique if you lack these attributes.  I'm sure it helps but I definitely would not say Auburn can miss on Elite prospects because we have a good coach.

And nearly every one of those skills can be coached up so with coaching & the kid busting his butt you can turn some kids from average to elite. Having elite talent in terms of production means you have to have kids with talent (not necessarily elite) and coaching to make them better. It's always been that way in college football & always will be.

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2 minutes ago, NorthGATiger said:

https://scout.com/college/auburn/Season/2019-Football/Targets?PositionGroup=O-LINE

 

This list will show most that we have offered but surely not all.  Most of these kids are cool on us.

Unfortunately, that is going to be the case when you replace the position coach. He hasn't had time to build relationships with all of these kids like other schools have, and he was recruiting at a different level at his previous position, where these kids weren't even on the radar. None of the kids we are really working on has an offer from UConn, so Grimes is totally new to them.

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2 minutes ago, NorthGATiger said:

https://scout.com/college/auburn/Season/2019-Football/Targets?PositionGroup=O-LINE

 

This list will show most that we have offered but surely not all.  Most of these kids are cool on us.

And those cool, warm graphics are always right...In reality they aren't right even half the time so not worth looking at much less posting.

Another thing to remember is we are in the evaluation period now where our coaches are going out to see who they like through the end of May. The AU OL board will shift quite a bit in the coming weeks as will ratings for already rated recruits & those yet to be rated or rated to low. A long way to go.

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1 minute ago, ellitor said:

Facts disagree with your opinion. Elite would be considered playing at a 5* level correct? Well there have been many many kids rated as 4, 3, & even 2 *s over the years that ended up playing at a 5* level & will continue to be.

And nearly every one of those skills can be coached up so with coaching & the kid busting his butt you can turn some kids from average to elite. Having elite talent in terms of production means you have to have kids with talent (not necessarily elite) and coaching to make them better. It's always been that way in college football & always will be.

I am referring to Lion's original question and I stand firm that NO I do not think we can just go out and recruit average players hoping Grimes can coach them up while our rivals are getting elite talent and coaching them up.  There are not many good ones out there that we can get on right now.  You know this and have stated so many times.  

 A great question at this point is, now that we are back to having a solid fundamentals coach working with the line, do we need elite linemen or can we create something solid with just good linemen?  There aren't that many elite linemen to go around, so other teams are obviously succeeding with what they can get.

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2 minutes ago, NorthGATiger said:

There are not many good ones out there that we can get on right now.  You know this and have stated so many times.  

For the 2019 OL class no I have not. Not even remotely close. That was 2018 when I made those statements. There is a good bit of talent in the 2019 class.

4 minutes ago, NorthGATiger said:

do we need elite linemen or can we create something solid with just good linemen?

Basically asking the same thing in a different way. You refuse to listen to reason & facts so I'm done w/ this discussion.

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5 minutes ago, NorthGATiger said:

I am referring to Lion's original question and I stand firm that NO I do not think we can just go out and recruit average players hoping Grimes can coach them up while our rivals are getting elite talent and coaching them up.  There are not many good ones out there that we can get on right now.  You know this and have stated so many times.  

 A great question at this point is, now that we are back to having a solid fundamentals coach working with the line, do we need elite linemen or can we create something solid with just good linemen?  There aren't that many elite linemen to go around, so other teams are obviously succeeding with what they can get.

But, considering the number of elite linemen out there, it's not like our rivals are stocking up, either. Neither one of them got Morris. 

Even so, it is currently our lot in life to have our two biggest rivals also running the two biggest recruiting machines without any NCAA interference (at least at the moment for Georgia), so we are going to have to combat that however we can. If that means turning a 2-star into a 1st round draft pick, then that's what we've got to do.

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O-Line ratings are very difficult as there are so many factors. First you have to have size OT's to get great ratings in HS they are always 6'5" to 6'7" and yet GA had a great OT last year at 6'2". Most big HS linemen are so much bigger that their opponents that they win just because of their size and often technique is bad.  The ones with good technique in HS often rate higher but that does not mean they will end up better. Mobility good feet and balance. Again if their HS coaching was not up to par it can be difficult to rate these skills.  This year when the coaches start evaluating players and watch practices and games , the good coaches can find the players that may not be rated as highly but that they see things that make them think they can coach them up.  When you see a coach take a 2* or 3* and turn him into a 5* talent it is because they were underrated to begin with and the coach recognized this and saw the potential.

I think both E and NorthGATiger are correct. E is correct you can take a lower rated player and turn him into an Elite player and NorthGATiger is correct if they have a physical limit on their ability to develop certain skills you can't make them great. The kid who is 6'6" 240 who can move and has a large frame can be built into an Elite player.  The big kid who gets pushed around because he is not very strong and people say is soft can be put on a strength and conditioning program if he has the work ethic and attitude. Many small schools don't have the facilities to develop their players in HS but a recruiter with a good eye can see the potential.

Most O-Linemen Red shirt their 1st year to get stronger, faster and work on technique many don't start in their second year as O-line is also about reading defenses and making adjustments. O-linemen need to have a high football IQ and it takes time to develop that.

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3 hours ago, lionheartkc said:

But, considering the number of elite linemen out there, it's not like our rivals are stocking up, either. Neither one of them got Morris. 

Even so, it is currently our lot in life to have our two biggest rivals also running the two biggest recruiting machines without any NCAA interference (at least at the moment for Georgia), so we are going to have to combat that however we can. If that means turning a 2-star into a 1st round draft pick, then that's what we've got to do.

Dang that puts us behind the eight ball in a bad way.  Building a 2* in to a 1st round draft pick is almost impossible considering we've only had five 1st round picks in the last decade. 

IMHO, trying to make them elite and 1st rounders sets the bar way too high.  Just take what we can get and make them serviceable, prepare and develop them to do their job and this team can still have great success.  5*'s are desirable,  they are not necessary to put a stout line on the field.   Some of that crap we've seen early in the year from the oline leads me to believe those players didn't know what the hell they were supposed to do, couple with piss poor communication (bad coaching.)

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8 minutes ago, keesler said:

Dang that puts us behind the eight ball in a bad way.  Building a 2* in to a 1st round draft pick is almost impossible considering we've only had five 1st round picks in the last decade. 

IMHO, trying to make them elite and 1st rounders sets the bar way too high.  Just take what we can get and make them serviceable, prepare and develop them to do their job and this team can still have great success.  5*'s are desirable,  they are not necessary to put a stout line on the field.   Some of that crap we've seen early in the year from the oline leads me to believe those players didn't know what the hell they were supposed to do, couple with piss poor communication (bad coaching.)

Yea... I was exaggerating. I can't remember the last time we recruited a 2-star at any position. I'm just making the point that our current situation make it so that we have to be prepared to start with less and still achieve.  I 100% agree that there has been some bad coaching on the O-Line that was made up for by talent (Braden) and heart (Golson). I have a feeling that if Braden had been coached by Grimes... or a number of other coaches, he could have been All-World.

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The idea that you need "elite" individual players in order to make an "elite" OL is just wrong in my view. You need good players that play well together. The OLs in 2010 and 2013 weren't loaded with NFL prospects (Greg Robinson, Brandon Mosley, and Shon Coleman are the only guy on either OL that went in the first four rounds of the draft . . . Coleman wasn't a starter in 2013). They were stocked with solid players. Some were highly rated in high school (Ziemba, Robinson, Coleman); some were just decent prospects.

The OL, more than any position, can thrive with very good players working together. Elite talent helps, but it's not a substitute for cohesive group play.

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13 minutes ago, mcgufcm said:

The idea that you need "elite" individual players in order to make an "elite" OL is just wrong in my view. You need good players that play well together. The OLs in 2010 and 2013 weren't loaded with NFL prospects (Greg Robinson, Brandon Mosley, and Shon Coleman are the only guy on either OL that went in the first four rounds of the draft . . . Coleman wasn't a starter in 2013). They were stocked with solid players. Some were highly rated in high school (Ziemba, Robinson, Coleman); some were just decent prospects.

The OL, more than any position, can thrive with very good players working together. Elite talent helps, but it's not a substitute for cohesive group play.

The goal of sports is to get the best players possible. OL we have struggled more than any position group the last few years in crutin. You cannot live banking on lowly rated guys to pan out. It will eventually catch up to you. Especially in the sec. Death in the sec is a weak OL and DL. Good thing we have the best DL in the sec.

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4 minutes ago, GwillMac6 said:

The goal of sports is to get the best players possible. OL we have struggled more than any position group the last few years in crutin. You cannot live banking on lowly rated guys to pan out. It will eventually catch up to you. Especially in the sec. Death in the sec is a weak OL and DL. Good thing we have the best DL in the sec

This. OL and DL are the two positions that can kill the dreams of any SEC football team. Even mediocre QBs can do enough behind great OLs. 

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16 minutes ago, aujeff11 said:

This. OL and DL are the two positions that can kill the dreams of any SEC football team. Even mediocre QBs can do enough behind great OLs. 

We are going to pay for the sins of weak OL recruiting classes for a couple of years starting this upcoming year. Maybe even longer if we do not rectify the problem.

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