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Softball vs. uat game 3


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59 minutes ago, ArgoEagle said:

I compare this to the incidence in football where the coach of the opposing team waits til right before the snap of the other team trying to kick a field goal and calls time out to try to fluster the kicker. It seems sneaky and maybe even underhanded, but it's within the rules of the game so why not use it to your advantage?

Also, I am in favor of anything that might discourage the slap hitting. Don't personally care for that particular part of the game.

I hate to see a rule change aimed at just a few players unless they start at lower levels and gradually impose it.  Some girls are taught to play that way and to put special rules to reduce their performance when they get to college bothers me.     Plus I don't trust the umps when after an inning or two, the batters box is about obscured.  Need to put something more permanent if they are going to enforce the idea that the "entire foot" has to be in the box when nobody can see the line and the only time anyone worries about it is when a batter gets a hit. 

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12 hours ago, AU64 said:

That seemed to be the case.....nobody publishing articles tonight about "sneaky sneaky" bama however are they ? ....

I heard MD blame it on the ump....or implied it was the ump who did not list the change....which makes it interesting that bama was able to know about it.   Oh well.......got away with that one. 

Could it be that the umpire thought MP was just pinch hitting and was not a substitute for KK?  Miscommunication between MD and umpire? 

The rule about substituting creates a lot of coaching strategy but is hard for me to keep up with and the announcers aren’t much help as they seem to be in the dark as much as me most of the time. 

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24 minutes ago, gulftiger66 said:

Could it be that the umpire thought MP was just pinch hitting and was not a substitute for KK?  Miscommunication between MD and umpire? 

The rule about substituting creates a lot of coaching strategy but is hard for me to keep up with and the announcers aren’t much help as they seem to be in the dark as much as me most of the time. 

True.....have not watched MD enough to know what he likes to do but Clint shuffled people in and out throughout a game and it was sometimes hard to follow.  And of course they rarely make a public address announcement for a change so generally the coaches and umps are the only ones who know what is happening. 

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56 minutes ago, AU64 said:

I hate to see a rule change aimed at just a few players unless they start at lower levels and gradually impose it.  Some girls are taught to play that way and to put special rules to reduce their performance when they get to college bothers me.     Plus I don't trust the umps when after an inning or two, the batters box is about obscured.  Need to put something more permanent if they are going to enforce the idea that the "entire foot" has to be in the box when nobody can see the line and the only time anyone worries about it is when a batter gets a hit. 

All of your slappers are aware and taught from an early age about being in the box.  The rule change is minimal to their approach.  By the time they are in college, they have been called out numerous times for being out of the box.  You will see some have tried to change their starting point further to the 1B side to help compensate some.  If you watch on TV or at games, easily 70% (and being generous) of time they are out of the box.  It's a tough call for the home plate umpire.  Always has been, because his primary responsibility is the pitch.  

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27 minutes ago, AU64 said:

True.....have not watched MD enough to know what he likes to do but Clint shuffled people in and out throughout a game and it was sometimes hard to follow.  And of course they rarely make a public address announcement for a change so generally the coaches and umps are the only ones who know what is happening. 

If you remember, Myers always kept someone with him to help manage/record substitutions and roster management.   Most of the announcers/PA/TV/radio are clueless on a lot of things (substitutions/rules/strategy).  In fairness to them, pay is not that great, so allows little time for preparation and homework.  While softball has grown for the good, the officiating and commentating has not caught up yet.  Dean is definitely learning a lot on the fly about SEC softball.  If you are at games, watch the home plate ump.  He signals to the press box for all official changes.  Now, it is hard to know some of the exact nature of the substitutions from the gestures, but coaches are given details during the changes.

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12 hours ago, Mikey said:

As long as I was involved in baseball, some 30 years at various levels, if the opposing manager didn't call the illegal substitution after the first pitch but before the second pitch, the player then became legal. There was no such thing as "holding it in your pocket" for an opportune moment.  It's the same result as batting out of turn. Softball may be different but I have my doubts.

i agree ... and since the baseball team had this happen this weekend, another example is if a runner misses a base.  If the team doesn't call it before the next pitch, then the play stands after that.  They need to change the rule if it was, in fact, implemented correctly.

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52 minutes ago, 4WDE said:

If you remember, Myers always kept someone with him to help manage/record substitutions and roster management.   Most of the announcers/PA/TV/radio are clueless on a lot of things (substitutions/rules/strategy).  In fairness to them, pay is not that great, so allows little time for preparation and homework.  While softball has grown for the good, the officiating and commentating has not caught up yet.  Dean is definitely learning a lot on the fly about SEC softball.  If you are at games, watch the home plate ump.  He signals to the press box for all official changes.  Now, it is hard to know some of the exact nature of the substitutions from the gestures, but coaches are given details during the changes.

Dean also has a young lady (I believe it is Macy Jones) who is always next to him in the dugout, writing stuff down.

In fairness to the commentators, they don't see the team often, so don't immediately recognize players.  They got all balled up about the uat catcher position.  They were calling Hemphill Caroline Hardy, then acted like Reagan Dykes was a new substitution, when in fact she started the game there.  They did identify Kasey Cooper in the stands, but did not know Morgan Estell, whom she was talking to.

As for slapping, I rather enjoy it as a part of the game that baseball doesn't have.  It can be a challenge for the defense to deal with,as we found out when Arizona basically beat us with slapping in the first game of the 2016 super regional.   

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1 hour ago, 4WDE said:

All of your slappers are aware and taught from an early age about being in the box.  The rule change is minimal to their approach.  By the time they are in college, they have been called out numerous times for being out of the box.  You will see some have tried to change their starting point further to the 1B side to help compensate some.  If you watch on TV or at games, easily 70% (and being generous) of time they are out of the box.  It's a tough call for the home plate umpire.  Always has been, because his primary responsibility is the pitch.  

I have to disagree with you slightly on this one, 4WDE.  Yes, slappers are taught from an early age about being in the box.  However, in the box in high school is defined as any part of the foot on the line (not touching the plate) and out of the box is a foot completely outside the line in contact with the ground.  The new college rule is any part of the foot outside the line is now out of the box.  So for years, Draper and KK (and Elisha Brown for bama, I called some of her high school games) have always played they could get part of the foot out of the box and be legal.  But that is not so this year.  The outs on those three during this series were legal hits last year.  So the rule change is not minimal, although I would agree they should be well aware of it,

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3 hours ago, AU64 said:

I hate to see a rule change aimed at just a few players unless they start at lower levels and gradually impose it.  Some girls are taught to play that way and to put special rules to reduce their performance when they get to college bothers me.     Plus I don't trust the umps when after an inning or two, the batters box is about obscured.  Need to put something more permanent if they are going to enforce the idea that the "entire foot" has to be in the box when nobody can see the line and the only time anyone worries about it is when a batter gets a hit. 

Just for clarification -- the batters box lines (and any others) "exist" even if they are messed up or obliterated after a couple of innings.  The distance from the edge of the plate to the edge of the batters box is specified in the rules:  6-inches.  As an umpire, I've had to train myself to track the pitch until it's hit, and then to quickly glance at the batter's feet to ensure they're in the box.  It's doable but it takes some practice. 

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Thanks for the discussion....I'm out of likes and would have acknowledged responses or explanations.....nice work folks...:)

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2 hours ago, 4WDE said:

All of your slappers are aware and taught from an early age about being in the box.  The rule change is minimal to their approach.  By the time they are in college, they have been called out numerous times for being out of the box.  You will see some have tried to change their starting point further to the 1B side to help compensate some.  If you watch on TV or at games, easily 70% (and being generous) of time they are out of the box.  It's a tough call for the home plate umpire.  Always has been, because his primary responsibility is the pitch.  

With the level of pitching the girls see in college I wouldn’t mind seeing the rule loostened to where the whole foot would have to be outside the box for an out to be called.  I always hate to see a clutch slap hit taken away when the game is on the line.  Hitters need some love every now and then.

 

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1 hour ago, GBAU83 said:

I have to disagree with you slightly on this one, 4WDE.  Yes, slappers are taught from an early age about being in the box.  However, in the box in high school is defined as any part of the foot on the line (not touching the plate) and out of the box is a foot completely outside the line in contact with the ground.  The new college rule is any part of the foot outside the line is now out of the box.  So for years, Draper and KK (and Elisha Brown for bama, I called some of her high school games) have always played they could get part of the foot out of the box and be legal.  But that is not so this year.  The outs on those three during this series were legal hits last year.  So the rule change is not minimal, although I would agree they should be well aware of it,

I didn't say the rule change is minimal.  I said the change to their approach is minimal.  All of AU slappers have not changed.  Brown did change her starting point.  Across the NCAA, most slappers have not changed their approach in terms of what/how it is being taught.  Several coaches have just said "they have to learn to stay in the box".  Sure, there is a mention, but nothing new in their drills or teachings per se.  NCAA is the only sanction using "part of the foot", rest is still "complete foot".

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23 minutes ago, gulftiger66 said:

With the level of pitching the girls see in college I wouldn’t mind seeing the rule loostened to where the whole foot would have to be outside the box for an out to be called.  I always hate to see a clutch slap hit taken away when the game is on the line.  Hitters need some love every now and then.

 

NCAA is only sanction currently using "part of the foot".

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2 hours ago, OlderWhiskey said:

Dean also has a young lady (I believe it is Macy Jones) who is always next to him in the dugout, writing stuff down.

In fairness to the commentators, they don't see the team often, so don't immediately recognize players.  They got all balled up about the uat catcher position.  They were calling Hemphill Caroline Hardy, then acted like Reagan Dykes was a new substitution, when in fact she started the game there.  They did identify Kasey Cooper in the stands, but did not know Morgan Estell, whom she was talking to.

As for slapping, I rather enjoy it as a part of the game that baseball doesn't have.  It can be a challenge for the defense to deal with,as we found out when Arizona basically beat us with slapping in the first game of the 2016 super regional.   

Yes, but she doesn't assist with substitutions.

They don't see the teams, but also don't do much homework.  They piled on with Dean about the double header following the LSU series being so bad for the students/players.  They ignored the fact that the AU players were out for spring break, so they did not miss any school.  Also, the games were literally on their way back, since they were not flying.  They also forget that the team has to be given a day off each week and a travel day does not count as one.  They (previous regime) was forced to schedule it then to not waste days, yet give the players their required day off and some rest time following. 

Slapping puts a tremendous amount of pressure on the defense.  Most coaches do not like having to defend against it.  It definitely creates an added element and excitement to the game.

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1 hour ago, AUloggerhead said:

Just for clarification -- the batters box lines (and any others) "exist" even if they are messed up or obliterated after a couple of innings.  The distance from the edge of the plate to the edge of the batters box is specified in the rules:  6-inches.  As an umpire, I've had to train myself to track the pitch until it's hit, and then to quickly glance at the batter's feet to ensure they're in the box.  It's doable but it takes some practice. 

It is doable, but not done well (because of the difficulty level, especially in college) or consistent.  Yes, and the ump is supposed to give the batter the benefit of the doubt when the chalk lines are gone.  Until replay is used (which could be a while), it will still be missed and/or inconsistent.  

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I'm wondering if the umps call it every time they see it.  I think they called it on a foul ball on Elissa Brown yesterday, but most of the time it seems to be a big play, like Draper's triple against Long Beach.  Do some of them just ignore it unless it is significant in the game?

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18 minutes ago, OlderWhiskey said:

I'm wondering if the umps call it every time they see it.  I think they called it on a foul ball on Elissa Brown yesterday, but most of the time it seems to be a big play, like Draper's triple against Long Beach.  Do some of them just ignore it unless it is significant in the game?

wondering the same......and can't recall anyone being called out on a foul ball for that reason.   I understand the line "exists" whether it is visible or not but with so much dependent on ump being able to see the batter's feet it might be worthwhile to come up with a more permanent batter's box marking.

As for slappers...they are definitely a nuisance but if you want to reduce the impact of them, just wet the ground in front of the plate instead of letting back like a brick walkway.   I can't see making a selective rule that is aimed at them.  

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14 hours ago, 4WDE said:

It is doable, but not done well (because of the difficulty level, especially in college) or consistent.  Yes, and the ump is supposed to give the batter the benefit of the doubt when the chalk lines are gone.  Until replay is used (which could be a while), it will still be missed and/or inconsistent.  

Hmm. Never, seen that in any rule book.  What's the rule reference for that?  I'd love to read it. 

14 hours ago, OlderWhiskey said:

I'm wondering if the umps call it every time they see it.  I think they called it on a foul ball on Elissa Brown yesterday, but most of the time it seems to be a big play, like Draper's triple against Long Beach.  Do some of them just ignore it unless it is significant in the game?

Actually, if you watch the umpires (It's difficult when watching on tv I know) but the home plate umpire throws his hands up immediately and calls time.  He doesn't wait for the results of the play to make the call.   If it's called on a big play its only an unfortuante coincidence.  Nothing more.

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19 hours ago, OlderWhiskey said:

I'm wondering if the umps call it every time they see it.  I think they called it on a foul ball on Elissa Brown yesterday, but most of the time it seems to be a big play, like Draper's triple against Long Beach.  Do some of them just ignore it unless it is significant in the game?

If they see it then yes, they call it(!)  The batter is required to be in the box to hit a pitch.  If they step out to hit the ball it doesn't matter if the ball goes fair or foul -- the result is an immediate dead ball and the batter is out.  Sometimes, I hear fans screaming "she's stepping out of the box, she's stepping out of the box!" when the batter doesn't attempt to swing at a pitch.  Doesn't matter.  It's only a violation if they step out and make contact with the pitch (fair or foul.)  

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21 hours ago, OlderWhiskey said:

I'm wondering if the umps call it every time they see it.  I think they called it on a foul ball on Elissa Brown yesterday, but most of the time it seems to be a big play, like Draper's triple against Long Beach.  Do some of them just ignore it unless it is significant in the game?

If they see it, yeah, they will call it. It is hard to watch the pitcher's foot to make sure it stays in the pitching lane, the pitch (of course) and the batter's feet on every pitch.  

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9 hours ago, WarTiger said:

Actually, if you watch the umpires (It's difficult when watching on tv I know) but the home plate umpire throws his hands up immediately and calls time.  He doesn't wait for the results of the play to make the call.   If it's called on a big play its only an unfortuante coincidence.  Nothing more.

I noticed the ump at the time as well, but also noticed that the batters box was practially gone on the inside so how he knew she was out, and how Draper was supposed to know where the line was is beyond me. If they are going to emphasize this, they need to put new chalk down every other inning to insure everyone knows where the line is.

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15 minutes ago, jared52 said:

I noticed the ump at the time as well, but also noticed that the batters box was practially gone on the inside so how he knew she was out, and how Draper was supposed to know where the line was is beyond me. If they are going to emphasize this, they need to put new chalk down every other inning to insure everyone knows where the line is.

It's pretty clear that she's out from the screen shot, but I like your idea of remarking the inside of the box at some frequency.  They could remark both lines in under a minute, I think,  with a ready setup.

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3 minutes ago, OlderWhiskey said:

It's pretty clear that she's out from the screen shot, but I like your idea of remarking the inside of the box at some frequency.  They could remark both lines in under a minute, I think,  with a ready setup.

Yep, I agree she was out looking at the replay, even in real time. But the line needs to be painted fresh more often.

Went back to watch the Osorio injury and yikes. I hate to see that. I also hate Draper was called out the play before or she would have been on third or at least on base and Au could have scratched that run across. I liked that Coach Dean actually held up one finger to stop Snow at first. Maybe might have been OK to go to second there, but coach wanted to get her help ASAP.

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It also occurs to me that remarking the line might be a subliminal aid to the batters.

The following was posted on the Alabama Softball Twitter feed about an hour ago:

Senior pitcher Alexis Osorio was evaluated by team physicians Monday after exiting Sunday’s game at Auburn and it was determined that she suffered a concussion. She is not cleared to play and there is no immediate timetable for her return.
Hoping she doesn't lose a big chunk of her senior year over this.

 

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