Proud Tiger 4,261 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 IMO if CA broke into two states it would be great. It would take away the enormous influence they have in the electoral college, etc., and leave the liberal left coast to themselves. http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/03/19/are-some-states-headed-for-splitsville-movement-grows-to-allow-sections-states-to-break-away.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AU64 10,122 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 I thought the issue was more along the lines of secession which is hard to imagine. Boy if that happened there would be a monster migration from lower California to adjacent US states and would be a huge economic upheaval. People pushing for California independence must be brain dead not see all the adverse consequences of such a move. Splitting? it's happened in our history for various reasons so guess it is possible but hard to imagine. This campaign is a good way for some to make money by fleecing those who will donate toward the cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NolaAuTiger 3,295 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 18 minutes ago, AU64 said: I thought the issue was more along the lines of secession which is hard to imagine. Boy if that happened there would be a monster migration from lower California to adjacent US states and would be a huge economic upheaval. People pushing for California independence must be brain dead not see all the adverse consequences of such a move. Splitting? it's happened in our history for various reasons so guess it is possible but hard to imagine. This campaign is a good way for some to make money by fleecing those who will donate toward the cause. I honestly don't think it's realistic. Unilateral secession is unconstitutional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AU64 10,122 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 21 minutes ago, NolaAuTiger said: I honestly don't think it's realistic. Unilateral secession is unconstitutional. The U S Constitution is not bothering some judges in California these days.....I can conceive of them finding a Federal judge who would allow a referendum on the issue for example. The backers are wanting a vote this year. https://yescalifornia.org/ Check this site if you have doubts about their seriousness. And they claim the 10th Amendment allows secession. Funny thing is, I'm thinking that if the rest of the US were to have a vote on the matter there is a chance they could get a majority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NolaAuTiger 3,295 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 Just now, AU64 said: The U S Constitution is not bothering some judges in California these days.....I can conceive of them finding a Federal judge who would allow a referendum on the issue for example. The backers are wanting a vote this year. https://yescalifornia.org/ Check this site if you have doubts about their seriousness. Funny thing is, I'm thinking that if the rest of the US were to have a vote on the matter there is a chance they could get a majority. Unfortunately those activist judges can't prevent SCOTUS from intervening. Because essentially, they would be disregarding binding precedent, which is a big no no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUDub 11,136 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, NolaAuTiger said: Unfortunately those activist judges can't prevent SCOTUS from intervening. Because essentially, they would be disregarding binding precedent, which is a big no no. Pretty much this. The question of secession was answered in the Texas v. White case. That precedent will be binding until the end of our nation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AU64 10,122 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 4 minutes ago, NolaAuTiger said: Unfortunately those activist judges can't prevent SCOTUS from intervening. Because essentially, they would be disregarding binding precedent, which is a big no no. Fortunately ....or unfortunately ? And wonder who is financing the movement..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUDub 11,136 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 1 minute ago, AU64 said: Fortunately ....or unfortunately ? And wonder who is financing the movement..... Interdasting question. https://www.snopes.com/news/2017/01/30/calexit-campaign-supported-russia/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad_ATX 13,654 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 Nothing is changing in California as far as statehood goes anytime soon. /thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AU64 10,122 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 5 minutes ago, AUDub said: Interdasting question. https://www.snopes.com/news/2017/01/30/calexit-campaign-supported-russia/ Russia....sounds about right....and I've heard in the past that money from Mexico is helping too. Mexico I could see....would be nice for them to have a satellite state to boost their economy. Even the movie star left must know how ludicrous this is so I'm guessing that most money is coming from outside the US...JMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NolaAuTiger 3,295 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 34 minutes ago, AUDub said: Pretty much this. The question of secession was answered in the Texas v. White case. That precedent will be binding until the end of our nation. Yep. Part of that case was overturned, but not the issue of unilateral secession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strychnine 1,802 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 1 hour ago, AUDub said: Pretty much this. The question of secession was answered in the Texas v. White case. That precedent will be binding until the end of our nation. The reality is that legality quickly becomes irrelevant if California sincerely wished to secede, just as it was irrelevant during the Revolution and Civil War. If California, or any other state, ever reaches the point of moving to secede, the question becomes: Do they feel strongly enough about seceding that they wish to risk United States military intervention? Does the United States feel strongly enough about maintaining or restoring the union to intervene? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AU64 10,122 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 12 minutes ago, Strychnine said: The reality is that legality quickly becomes irrelevant if California sincerely wished to secede, just as it was irrelevant during the Revolution and Civil War. If California, or any other state, ever reaches the point of moving to secede, the question becomes: Do they feel strongly enough about seceding that they wish to risk United States military intervention? Does the United States feel strongly enough about maintaining or restoring the union to intervene? Good post.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PUB78 1,356 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 When the next big earthquake comes, most of California will slide off into the Pacific. Will become a mute issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NolaAuTiger 3,295 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 6 hours ago, Strychnine said: The reality is that legality quickly becomes irrelevant if California sincerely wished to secede, just as it was irrelevant during the Revolution and Civil War. If California, or any other state, ever reaches the point of moving to secede, the question becomes: Do they feel strongly enough about seceding that they wish to risk United States military intervention? Does the United States feel strongly enough about maintaining or restoring the union to intervene? Who is the "they"? The elected officials? The people? I think this hypothetical is entirely too tenuous, which you might agree with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NolaAuTiger 3,295 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 6 hours ago, AU64 said: Good post.... Not in the pragmatic sense, for various reasons. It assumes too much. I couldn't even begin to exhaust the hurdles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AU64 10,122 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 41 minutes ago, NolaAuTiger said: Does the United States feel strongly enough about maintaining or restoring the union to intervene? ..JMO.... its all talk and they would never get anywhere near a majority to vote to leave. But for argument's sake, I think this is the key..... the US government would only act in legal resistance....would never be any kind of economic or military force to impose the Federal Government's will on Calif. if it just ignores SCOTUS which I could see happening. But what could Calif. do if a referendum passed? expel government workers, take over military bases (with what) ?....the whole concept is nuts....and of course the Federal Government could not abandon the US citizens that live in Calif and who opposed whatever happens. ...but just conversation.....and rabble rousing. .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasTiger 12,826 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 Split it into 5 states. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,357 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 I still don't get this California obsession. Some of these posts are just sick (in the classical way). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proud Tiger 4,261 Posted March 21, 2018 Author Share Posted March 21, 2018 3 hours ago, TexasTiger said: Spilt it into 5 states. That would be good. It would diminish their power in the electoral college since some of those wouldn't be liberal Dems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasTiger 12,826 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Proud Tiger said: That would be good. It would diminish their power in the electoral college since some of those wouldn't be liberal Dems Or 10 Dem Senators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NolaAuTiger 3,295 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 12 hours ago, TexasTiger said: Split it into 5 states. Split into 10 states Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AU64 10,122 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 7 minutes ago, NolaAuTiger said: Split into 10 states So...2 or 5 or 10....who draws the boundaries ? Can you imagine the chaos ? ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NolaAuTiger 3,295 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 4 minutes ago, AU64 said: So...2 or 5 or 10....who draws the boundaries ? Can you imagine the chaos ? ? Skip it!!! Let’s go all the way to 20!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strychnine 1,802 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 16 hours ago, AU64 said: ..JMO.... its all talk and they would never get anywhere near a majority to vote to leave. But for argument's sake, I think this is the key..... the US government would only act in legal resistance....would never be any kind of economic or military force to impose the Federal Government's will on Calif. if it just ignores SCOTUS which I could see happening. But what could Calif. do if a referendum passed? expel government workers, take over military bases (with what) ?....the whole concept is nuts....and of course the Federal Government could not abandon the US citizens that live in Calif and who opposed whatever happens. ...but just conversation.....and rabble rousing. .. I certainly agree that it is all talk. It would be stupid for California to leave the United States, and it would be stupid for the United States to allow them to. Even if a secession movement gained enough popular support to force the elected state officials to deal with it, I seriously doubt they would move forward with it. I have a difficult time envisioning California officials signing its own Declaration of Independence. Assuming California decided to secede, it would be a nightmare. The United States has substantial resources located within California, resources that they certainly are not going to just let them have. Naval Base San Diego alone would provide an immense hurdle. The United States has nuclear weapons in California. The Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory is in California. If this ever stopped being a ridiculously hypothetical discussion and started to move toward becoming a reality, I honestly believe the United States would occupy California to prevent it if necessary, quite quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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