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Baptisms at the Athletics Complex


RunInRed

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explain that again and use muslims..............sorry there are folks who are christian that do bad things every single day. evil can penetrate any organization.......

 

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1 hour ago, selias said:

You seem to be taking everything as a personal affront. Might I suggest taking a step back? I'm an atheist and took no offense to kd4au's post. Even as an atheist, I can accept there are some good allegories for conducting oneself as a decent human being in various religious texts.

I'm not taking it personally. Not sure why you think that.  I'm just pointing out that being baptized or being of the Christian faith is not the only indicator of being a decent young man.

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1 hour ago, aubiefifty said:

i have seen people that were christian get a job they were less qualified for than someone that was not into church.  how is that for a start?

So you give one example even though you see it “all the time locally”? Is this where you are employed? Do you have ALL the facts that were involved in one person getting hired over another? How did the one hiring know that the other applicant “wasn’t into church”? How do you know there weren’t other Christians who applied for the same job that were passed over, too? If you see it “all the time locally” surely you can give a few more examples that could definitively point towards a bias??

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12 minutes ago, Proud Tiger said:

Of course I'm serious. Name me a Christian terrorist (unless you are maybe refering to the Crusades of long ago). The two words don't even go together.

Sadly, Fifty just did... Eric Rudolph was, in fact, a Christian terrorist. His heinous actions were perpetuated in an effort to force people into his beliefs which, while no doubt corrupted by his mental issues, were based on Christian beliefs (anti-abortion, anti-homosexual). 

I think what you are trying to get across is that the Christian church, as an entity, does not condone these kinds of things, nor does any sanctioned segment of the church. Any violence committed in the name of the church is done so by an individual or fringe group that would not be accepted by the whole. The KKK is a prime example of this. They claim Christianity, but the church as a whole wants nothing to do with them. 

The same anti-violence stance can be said for most religions. Even the ones that have militant arms wish they didn't, but once a group organizes and takes up arms it's really hard to make them go away, especially when you have a foundation of peace.

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3 hours ago, Proud Tiger said:

He didn't say that at all. You just choose to interpret it that way because it suits your narrative.....which appears to be the biggest myth in the thread so far.

Of course he did. He specifically said " more like him" which means less of "the other".

 

2 hours ago, wde21 said:

I agree with kd4au that more Christians on the team is a good thing. As a believer I rejoice each time someone makes a decision for Christ. My personal decision at an early age shaped my life. Even if you are not a Christian or are an atheist I can’t understand anyone thinking it is a bad thing. These young men have a roadmap to follow in living their life. This includes loving one another(all people), helping the less fortunate and the list goes on and on. I, for one, am very pleased with the influence Brother Chette and the coaches have had on these players’ lives!

No one is saying it's a bad thing to get baptized or choose the Christian religion. Good Grief. What we are saying is that it is inappropriate to have a religious ceremony in a state university facility and to promote any particular religion. If it had been a group of Muslim students you all would be raising hell. Let's not cloud the issue and make it all about your personal faith. That is immaterial. If you have the ability to be objective you'd see that it's not appropriate. It should've taken place in a church and no one would care.

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i am not hear to write a book. it happens all the time. if you think it does not you live in a dream world. hell i know a cop that will give christians better treatment than regular folks. but you can think i am lying all ya wnat. i will sleep good. this is in responce to pigskin pat. sorry i thought i quoted but got in too big of a hurry.

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16 minutes ago, Tigerbelle said:

I'm not taking it personally. Not sure why you think that.  I'm just pointing out that being baptized or being of the Christian faith is not the only indicator of being a decent young man.

Well stated. That's the thing that more people need to get a grip on. So many times both sides are correct and incorrect in arguments, because they refuse to see that while the essence of the stance they are taking is correct, it's not the only answer. Yes, young men who truly follow the teachings of the Christian faith should be decent young men, but so should young men who are raised in loving households, young men who follow the examples of good role models, etc.

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One thing I wish I would stop seeing in this thread is the declaration that anyone who doesn't take issue with the baptisms would take issue with a similar Muslim ceremony taking place. While that may be the case with some people, a blanket generalization like that just hurts your credibility because its fundamentally untrue and comes across as striking out at the individual instead of making a case for your belief. Just because someone thinks the church and state PC stuff is out of control doesn't mean they assign that out of control assessment to a single religion. I, for one, wouldn't bat an eye to be walking through a student center and see prayer rugs setup in one of the rooms with students praying. I would venture to guess that a good number of others on this board feel the same way, and have no issue with kids being baptized on campus either.

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27 minutes ago, PigskinPat said:

So you give one example even though you see it “all the time locally”? Is this where you are employed? Do you have ALL the facts that were involved in one person getting hired over another? How did the one hiring know that the other applicant “wasn’t into church”? How do you know there weren’t other Christians who applied for the same job that were passed over, too? If you see it “all the time locally” surely you can give a few more examples that could definitively point towards a bias??

There aren’t many facts in these discussions this one included. That is why we keep going in circles. The only fact that I can see is that this young man wanted to get baptized, which was within his rights to do so at this pool. Everything else is completely opinion based and assumed including some of my comments pertaining to my faith. Whether it is appropriate at Auburn or not is a personal issue.

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2 hours ago, AU64 said:

I feel bad for belle....must have had some unpleasant experience in her past and seems to have a narrow and negative view of "organized religion" as opposed to unorganized religion which would probably describe my local church.

The old Methodist view of "think and let think" fits our small congregation and yet somehow we seem to get along and do some good things for the community too. 

As for the three young men who were Baptized, since they come from different cities, I expect they attend different churches....and I hope they will feel the desire to help serve their communities.    Like 'em or not, churches are a major positive force in helping deal with problems in our society. 

 No reason to feel bad. Nothing happened that traumatized me against religion.  I'm just able to view things objectively as opposed to most of the posters here. And I'm not going to be bullied on a sports forum.

You all have managed to twist this into believing that it's a full on assault against the Christian religion and your own personal religious beliefs.

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1 minute ago, Tigerbelle said:

 No reason to feel bad. Nothing happened that traumatized me against religion.  I'm just able to view things objectively as opposed to most of the posters here. And I'm not going to be bullied on a sports forum.

You all have managed to twist this into believing that it's a full on assault against the Christian religion and your own personal religious beliefs.

you just nailed it.

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29 minutes ago, Tigerbelle said:

I'm not taking it personally. Not sure why you think that.  I'm just pointing out that being baptized or being of the Christian faith is not the only indicator of being a decent young man.

I don't think that was the intent of the original post. I could be wildly off-base though.

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14 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

Well stated. That's the thing that more people need to get a grip on. So many times both sides are correct and incorrect in arguments, because they refuse to see that while the essence of the stance they are taking is correct, it's not the only answer. Yes, young men who truly follow the teachings of the Christian faith should be decent young men, but so should young men who are raised in loving households, young men who follow the examples of good role models, etc.

One of the big social issues these days relates to young people who do not grow up in loving households, have no or few positive role models and have no one helping to instill the kind of values that will help them succeed in life.  Churches of all stripe see this issue and do what they can to help get them. Some of our players come from that kind of background too and I'm happy to see their team mates take a personal interest in them beyond the football field. 

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34 minutes ago, Proud Tiger said:

How can you say these people were Christians? They obviously weren't practicing Christians although they may have claimed to be. A person saying he/she  is a Christian doesn't make them one.

Yes brother PT. The bible tells us that if we do not love our brother, then we don't have the love of God in us. These people he mentioned that shot up people, or blew up people b/c of their skin color or ethnicity, or nationality may have claimed to be Christians, but they could not have had the love of God in them. Many false religions do preach hate in some form, but true Christian churches do not!!!!  Unfortunately b/c of the actions of the aforementioned (so called Christians who committed these heinous crimes), true Christians get pigeon holed and  grouped in with these phony non-Christians, and are given a bad name unwarranted.

Obviously something has soured aubiefifty on churches and I hate that and would suggest that he visit several churches near him and have an open mind and pray that the Holy Spirit leads him to the right one.

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1 minute ago, AU64 said:

One of the big social issues these days relates to young people who do not grow up in loving households, have no or few positive role models and have no one helping to instill the kind of values that will help them succeed in life.  Churches of all stripe see this issue and do what they can to help get them. Some of our players come from that kind of background too and I'm happy to see their team mates take a personal interest in them beyond the football field. 

I think everyone can agree that bad parents (both those who are just neglectful and those who leave, causing a single parent to be overwhelmed) are one of the biggest problems our society has and anyone who is willing to, lovingly and without condition, fill in the needs that are neglected at a child's home should be celebrated. 

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4 minutes ago, Tigerbelle said:

 No reason to feel bad. Nothing happened that traumatized me against religion.  I'm just able to view things objectively as opposed to most of the posters here. And I'm not going to be bullied on a sports forum.

You all have managed to twist this into believing that it's a full on assault against the Christian religion and your own personal religious beliefs.

Sorry belle...you and I usually get along but you are the one doing the bullying in this situation...  If you are happy with your life and beliefs....then that is all that needs to be said.....but please don't be making pushing snarky comments like.... "own personal religious beliefs"   which has negativism all over it.    

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48 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

timothy mcV was one. eric rudolph was one. the kid blowing up folks of color in tejas was one. and over the last year or three many christians shot up folks and places. i am not being anti christian but i refuse to give someone a pass because they claim to be christian and love god. i do not do church anymore because too much hate comes out of too many churches anymore. i hate the way gays are treated even though i do not care for their lifestyle. the constitution claims all men are created equal right? they are not in this country and it is sad. love is and should always be the higher law. and what about known christians going out and defacing or bombing mosques etc? the only parts of the bible relevant to me anymore are the words of jesus, period.

Nope, nope, and nope. You can claim to be anything you want, but if your actions prove contrary, then you are not what you claim to be. McVeigh was agnostic, didn't believe there was a heaven or hell, so I have no idea where you came up with that. Eric Rudolph attended a Christian Identity church. They espouse a racist and white supremacist view of Christianity, but those views are denounced by true followers of Christ. Conditt was a part of a "Christian" survivalist group who's views don't align with a true follower of Christ. Also, mental illness I would bet played a HUGE role in all three's actions. You can call yourself a vegetarian, but if you go around eating meat, a vegetarian you are not. 

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8 hours ago, DAG said:

 

 

Haha, I am mad? I never once said your response wasn't fit. You are projecting once again. You disagree with my position okay. That is fine with me. That is why it is an open thread. You feel I was disrespectful? Fair enough. I felt you were too. Alright, we can just disengage. At the end of the day, it does NOT make my point any more important than yours. You keep saying that when there is zero validity to it. We are just two people anonymously typing over the internet. You can say what you want to say and you can disagree all you like, I am not losing any sleep over it. I actually like discussing differences with people, if it is going to be a meaningful discussion. Ehh.

You just referenced social pressure? Who pressured you to come in this thread and engage in discussion? NOBODY. You came in this thread by your own admission because you wanted to. You have a lot of I,I,I statement with zero evidence to point to why you are right, yet when people disagree with it you want to say "HA, you made my point." You haven’t made any points. You said something earlier equivelant to “look how this thread is still open” thinking you made some astute observation. The ironic thing is the guy who open this thread and supposedly runs this site has openly said he isn’t religious and does not think this should occur within  the confines of AU. He feels uncomfortable on the other hand. There is nothing wrong with that position, as long as you don’t ban or shut people down for having a difference of opinion.Just because it makes YOU uncomfortable doesn't mean you have the right to censor it. A lot of people were uncomfortable with Kaep kneeling during the national anthem. It was his right to do so. There two things you can do. You can CHOOSE to accept it and move on or you can say I am not going to engage in it and not support it by refusing to support the NFL. What is inappropriate is trying to censor Kaep right to do such because it might make people feel uncomfortable. Now the owners have chosen not to sign him. Okay, it is their team, they are within their rights. He might try to sue, but that is also within his rights.  

There are a few things that make me uncomfortable, partly because of my faith. It doesn't make me one bit more or less important than the next guy. I choose to not be involved in it if I am that uncomfortable with it. I am in an interracial relationship. People are uncomfortable with it. That is fine, have your opinion, as long as you are not violating our rights. Or how about breastfeeding in public? Very controversial. Quite a few people think that is a private matter. If someone told you that breastfeeding in public makes them uncomfortable and you should do it at a more appropriate setting like a private area, what would you say? Those are more social examples as I see you don’t like scriptural based.

You are uncomfortable with where someone is getting baptized. That is fine and dandy, but the statement in bold that I highlighted is very intolerant. In fact, it goes against any point you are trying to make because as far as I know, they are well within their rights to do so at that pool. My opinion and your opinion DOESN'T MATTER at that point. Now, if something like that affects you to the point of feeling less adequate, that is a personal problem that you have to work on. If people praying before or after a football game in the locker room or on the field (religious activities) makes you feel less important then that is a personal problem. If any of the above is infringing on someone’s rights as you say, point me in that direction and I am all ears. Give some evidence to actually support what you say, not just your feelings.

You have clearly no comprehension of my position. I personally do not care if someone is Baptized or not. I DO NOT CARE. Plain enough for you? I do not object and have no right to object if it's done in a church. I believe it's not appropriate to do a baptism in a PUBLIC, STATE university building and to make a certain religion such a big part of ANY football program. Believe or not believe, Christian or not...I DO NOT CARE. I did not read your entire post and don't plan to but I will not have you claiming that I am against something I'm not.....especially when I plainly stated my position. So I am repeating it. I hope you get it this time. Being Baptized in an athletic facility that should remain neutral is inappropriate.

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1 minute ago, PigskinPat said:

Nope, nope, and nope. You can claim to be anything you want, but if your actions prove contrary, then you are not what you claim to be. McVeigh was agnostic, didn't believe there was a heaven or hell, so I have no idea where you came up with that. Eric Rudolph attended a Christian Identity church. They espouse a racist and white supremacist view of Christianity, but those views are denounced by true followers of Christ. Conditt was a part of a "Christian" survivalist group who's views don't align with a true follower of Christ. Also, mental illness I would bet played a HUGE role in all three's actions. You can call yourself a vegetarian, but if you go around eating meat, a vegetarian you are not. 

There seems to be the assumption by the media in situations like this that all Caucasians are Christians ....and no need to actually verify that fact....and certainly no effort to determine if they actually represent some aspect of Christianity that is sanctioning those heinous actions. 

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28 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

i am not hear to write a book. it happens all the time. if you think it does not you live in a dream world. hell i know a cop that will give christians better treatment than regular folks. but you can think i am lying all ya wnat. i will sleep good. this is in responce to pigskin pat. sorry i thought i quoted but got in too big of a hurry.

I'm sorry if I ruffled your feathers, it's just that you threw out a very serious accusation. Your words were that you see "all the time", I just thought you could perhaps give us at least 2 or 3 good examples of what you've claimed to have seen firsthand. :dunno:

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2 minutes ago, ArgoEagle said:

Yes brother PT. The bible tells us that if we do not love our brother, then we don't have the love of God in us. These people he mentioned that shot up people, or blew up people b/c of their skin color or ethnicity, or nationality may have claimed to be Christians, but they could not have had the love of God in them. Many false religions do preach hate in some form, but true Christian churches do not!!!!  Unfortunately b/c of the actions of the aforementioned (so called Christians who committed these heinous crimes), true Christians get pigeon holed and  grouped in with these phony non-Christians, and are given a bad name unwarranted.

Obviously something has soured aubiefifty on churches and I hate that and would suggest that he visit several churches near him and have an open mind and pray that the Holy Spirit leads him to the right one.

you would be right argo. i have issues with depression,suicide,ocd bipolar etc. some friends that never miss a day of church offered to lay hands on me and drive the demon out causing all my problems. i declined and they basically turned their back on me other than saying hello if we ran across each other.before that we were close and played  band together. and i was very respectful. the thing they did not realize is a close friend i grew up with is a preacher and he laid hands on me in the parking lot of the pizza hut in gadsden. it did absolutely nothing. ok? and this is a man/preacher i love and trust. i got tired of looking at the barrel of a gun too many nights trying to get my courage up to end the pain so no one can say i was not serious.

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7 minutes ago, PigskinPat said:

Nope, nope, and nope. You can claim to be anything you want, but if your actions prove contrary, then you are not what you claim to be. McVeigh was agnostic, didn't believe there was a heaven or hell, so I have no idea where you came up with that. Eric Rudolph attended a Christian Identity church. They espouse a racist and white supremacist view of Christianity, but those views are denounced by true followers of Christ. Conditt was a part of a "Christian" survivalist group who's views don't align with a true follower of Christ. Also, mental illness I would bet played a HUGE role in all three's actions. You can call yourself a vegetarian, but if you go around eating meat, a vegetarian you are not. 

all this does is give a free pass to bad christians. what about slavery? folks used it to justify it back in the day. were they all non christians? go look up the word zealot. i believe you find those in the christianity as well as any where else.

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4 minutes ago, AU64 said:

Sorry belle...you and I usually get along but you are the one doing the bullying in this situation...  If you are happy with your life and beliefs....then that is all that needs to be said.....but please don't be making pushing snarky comments like.... "own personal religious beliefs"   which has negativism all over it.    

I am definitely being called out for having an objection. And since when is being honest about what got people so heated being snarky?  It might make you uncomfortable  but that does not mean it's snarky. Go back and re-read.

It has nothing to do with what ANYONE'S personal religious beliefs are. It is about what is appropriate in the context of an athletic facility that serves students of a public university.

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11 minutes ago, PigskinPat said:

I'm sorry if I ruffled your feathers, it's just that you threw out a very serious accusation. Your words were that you see "all the time", I just thought you could perhaps give us at least 2 or 3 good examples of what you've claimed to have seen firsthand. :dunno:

i have not hate for you my brother nor anger. i type blunt and to the point because i am a bad typist and it often cmes out like i am mad. thanks for the apology because it show you to be a caring and probably quality person! but it was not needed but for the record i am a deeply troubled christian. i have been baptised and sang in church choir. i paid little heed to the tribal histories of the bible and try to concentrate on the words of jesus. that and a basic belief that love is the higher law.

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12 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

all this does is give a free pass to bad christians. what about slavery? folks used it to justify it back in the day. were they all non christians? go look up the word zealot. i believe you find those in the christianity as well as any where else.

But they aren't truly followers of Christ. You are right, throughout history, people have done some heinous things under the banner of "Christianity". What I am trying to say is that if you read the teaching of Christ and TRY everyday to live by the examples He lived out on earth, there wouldn't be the horrors in the world that we see today and those people would have never committed those horrible acts. But claiming to be something and then doing something that is completely contrary to the teachings of what you say you are, shows that those people are only wolves in sheep's clothing.

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