Baptisms at the Athletics Complex

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

1 hour ago, AlaskanFAN said:

We live in a society where people find fault with anything and everything. 

Post of the century!!

[triangletiger 1,599]

1 hour ago, Brad_ATX said:

Debatable depending on clean up procedures, but let's assume no.  While the hypothetical was obviously out there, it was intended to test the boundaries of some on here.  If you're OK with it, because religious freedom goes all ways when laws aren't being broken, then we're done here because that's a consistent, reasoned response.  If it's not OK, that's where I have issues.  And my gut tells me AU officials would not let a chicken sacrifice happen in the athletic department, even if all sanitation guidelines could be guaranteed.

I'm all for fairness (and certainly have no problems with baptisms being held in the athletic complex), but I can see this opening a real can of worms.  What if, hypothetically speaking, we had an athlete (or athletes) who are members of the Native American Church who ingest peyote as part of their religious and cultural tradition?  Would that be allowed?

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

1 hour ago, RunInRed said:

Hypothetically, what would you say if I told you I had evidence of a coach who attended?

The same I would say knowing it's a  FACT that Coach Tubs had the players gather for prayer after every practice. Sometimes Chette lead it but often a player did. Players weren't forced to participate and a few didn't.

[DAG 33,955]

11 minutes ago, triangletiger said:

I'm all for fairness (and certainly have no problems with baptisms being held in the athletic complex), but I can see this opening a real can of worms.  What if, hypothetically speaking, we had an athlete (or athletes) who are members of the Native American Church who ingest peyote as part of their religious and cultural tradition?  Would that be allowed?

The Supreme Court ruled that it is legal to use under religious grounds, so why wouldn’t it be? Now if the NCAA finds it illegal for some fashion, that is a whole different can of worms. E.G. the NFL and pot.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

1 minute ago, triangletiger said:

I'm all for fairness (and certainly have no problems with baptisms being held in the athletic complex), but I can see this opening a real can of worms.  What if, hypothetically speaking, we had an athlete (or athletes) who are members of the Native American Church who ingest peyote as part of their religious and cultural tradition?  Would that be allowed?

No, because it would come up on a drug test and interfere with their eligibility based on the rules that were placed upon them when they chose to be a football player. Possibly also no, because I believe peyote is illegal in Alabama, and I am unaware of any judgement that was passed down that it is okay if it is part of your religion (granted, I haven't and don't have time to research).

Of course, if you want to go down that long and winding road, you get into things like sharia law, which is very much a part of the Muslim religion, but a lot of which clashes directly with our laws (hopefully you won't  see us cutting the hands off of thieves any time in the near future). The laws of our country superseded religious freedom when the practices of the religion are in direct conflict (now we're back to peyote), but should have no effect on religious freedom when there is no clear cut conflict.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

Just now, DAG said:

The Supreme Court ruled that it is legal to use under religious grounds, so why wouldn’t it be? Now if the NCAA or someone considers it illegal that is a different story. The same way it is legal in some states to smoke pot , but doesn’t mean you won’t be penalized by your employer. 

Thank you for correcting my answer before I answered.

I change my answer to "What he said."

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

I'm glad Red started this thread. It has made my day to see so many of my Auburn brothers openly express and defend their faith.

[theduke 5]

Praise!

[Auhud08 596]

SIAP but how many of these players igned knowing Gus’ stance on faith. How many signed knowing hes an evangelical christian? Id say all of em. And id say they likely all knew where other coaches stood at least as to whether the other coaches believe in God or not. So I wouldnt think it would surprise any pf these players to see a coach/coaches support this event. Secondarily, faith has been shown as a good way to cope with stress. So no matter what faith these guys have its beneficial for them to have a faith. Last, I would argue that is this were an Islamic event there would be some level of opposite feelings from everyone. I think that shows how we’re all biased. 

[TitanTiger 20,471]

I would say that simply allowing them to use a pool at the athletic facility to do something the student chose of their own free will to do (and would have done anyway somewhere else) doesn't violate any church/state issues.  If a group of athletes were Muslim or Jewish and wanted to use a room at the athletic facility for a voluntary prayer time or something, I wouldn't have a problem with that either.

[AU-24 3,063]

2 hours ago, RunInRed said:

Do you see any irony here?

No irony at all. No one is forcing their views on these young men. This was done willingly, and from the heart! Were they supposed to be baptized at home, alone in their bath tub?

We should be glad and rejoice they will spend eternity in heaven with the Lord, versus the other place.

 

[abw0004 10,108]

This will most likely be a hot topic issue that will make this a very long thread.  I think the main issue is where this took place that is causing the discussion.

I will first disclose that I am a devout Christian but I will try my best to impartial here.  The first issue was who issued the baptism, our chaplain who is a paid employee of Auburn, a state school.  This however, should not matter if the player asked the chaplain to be baptized and was not pressured by the chaplain.  Ideally this would be best to have been done outside work hours, but the chaplain had every right to do this. Second, this happened on campus.  Organizations are allowed to meet on campus, not matter who they are for.  Atheists have sign up tables all of the time in the student center, just like FCA can meet on campus.  The recovery pool was used, which is owned by the state technically, which is where all of the grey area/debate should be.  But, if the school gives the okay for another religion to use it if asked, then it should not be an issue.

I think a lot of people are incorrectly getting on Red for his comments, and this is mostly because Auburn is located in the Bible Belt.  If this were a Northern school almost everyone would be on Red's side.  But in the end this was okay to do.  Christians, by nature, should love everyone and not pressure or judge others as many try to do.  It is hypocritical for people to judge others for their decisions or life choices and then those same people that judged go to God and ask Him not to judge them for their own decisions.  So let's not judge other's comments please or criticize how they feel.  This is not the place for it.  By law however, what happened with the players was legal as long as they are open to other religions using the pool for their own purposes.

*End Scene*

[RunInRed 16,360]

Pretty sure Kodi reacting in an official capacity ...

 

[im4aual 486]

Happy for those young men and grateful for our coaches and Brother Chette.

[RunInRed 16,360]

12 minutes ago, AU-24 said:

No irony at all. No one is forcing their views on these young men. This was done willingly, and from the heart! Were they supposed to be baptized at home, alone in their bath tub?

We should be glad and rejoice they will spend eternity in heaven with the Lord, versus the other place.

 

I’m curious how you *know* this?

[RunInRed 16,360]

14 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

I would say that simply allowing them to use a pool at the athletic facility to do something the student chose of their own free will to do (and would have done anyway somewhere else) doesn't violate any church/state issues.  If a group of athletes were Muslim or Jewish and wanted to use a room at the athletic facility for a voluntary prayer time or something, I wouldn't have a problem with that either.

And you know this too?

[TitanTiger 20,471]

4 minutes ago, RunInRed said:

And you know this too?

Is there any evidence whatsoever of these students being coerced into conversions or baptisms?  Any rumor or suggestion that any engagement with Chette Williams on topics religious is imposed on the players?  In all the years of Auburn athletics with things like this going on, have you even heard rumor of such a thing that would suggest a player who got baptized in the athletic department pool would have decided not to be baptized at a church in the area or a lake or river nearby instead if they'd scheduled it there?  

It was likely done for convenience and because the player wished to be baptized as soon as possible rather than wait.  There's no reason to think otherwise.

[AU-24 3,063]

8 minutes ago, RunInRed said:

I’m curious how you *know* this?

How do u think I know it? I’m curious too. 

[DAG 33,955]

14 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

This will most likely be a hot topic issue that will make this a very long thread.  I think the main issue is where this took place that is causing the discussion.

I will first disclose that I am a devout Christian but I will try my best to impartial here.  The first issue was who issued the baptism, our chaplain who is a paid employee of Auburn, a state school.  This however, should not matter if the player asked the chaplain to be baptized and was not pressured by the chaplain.  Ideally this would be best to have been done outside work hours, but the chaplain had every right to do this. Second, this happened on campus.  Organizations are allowed to meet on campus, not matter who they are for.  Atheists have sign up tables all of the time in the student center, just like FCA can meet on campus.  The recovery pool was used, which is owned by the state technically, which is where all of the grey area/debate should be.  But, if the school gives the okay for another religion to use it if asked, then it should not be an issue.

I think a lot of people are incorrectly getting on Red for his comments, and this is mostly because Auburn is located in the Bible Belt.  If this were a Northern school almost everyone would be on Red's side.  But in the end this was okay to do.  Christians, by nature, should love everyone and not pressure or judge others as many try to do.  It is hypocritical for people to judge others for their decisions or life choices and then those same people that judged go to God and ask Him not to judge them for their own decisions.  So let's not judge other's comments please or criticize how they feel.  This is not the place for it.  By law however, what happened with the players was legal as long as they are open to other religions using the pool for their own purposes.

*End Scene*

How is anyone getting on him? He asked for thoughts and he got thoughts.  People are disagreeing with his position in a respectable manner. That is the beauty of this forum.

[AU-24 3,063]

Jesus tells Nicodemus: “God did not send his Son into the world for him to judge the world.” This means that he was not sent to judge it adversely, condemning all humans to destruction. Rather, as Jesus says, he was sent “for the world to be saved through him.”—John 3:17.

“Rabbi,” Nicodemus says, “we know that you have come from God as a teacher, for no one can perform these signs that you perform unless God is with him.” In reply, Jesus tells Nicodemus that in order to enter the Kingdom of God, a person must be “born again.”—John 3:2, 3.

https://www.jw.org/en/publications/books/jesus/beginning-ministry/nicodemus-born-again/

[TitanTiger 20,471]

16 minutes ago, RunInRed said:

Pretty sure Kodi reacting in an official capacity ...

 

Does Auburn own Kodi Burns' Twitter account?  Are coaches, teachers, state employees and the like not permitted to express religious views or agreement with views on their own social media?  How is this "in an official capacity?"

[abw0004 10,108]

4 minutes ago, DAG said:

How is anyone getting on him? He asked for thoughts and he got thoughts.  People are disagreeing with his position in a respectable manner. That is the beauty of this forum.

Some people are being a little too critical, so I was doing what I could to prevent it from getting to the next level.  More precautionary steps than anything, especially considering this is a very sensitive subject.

[GwillMac6 20,607]

SO ummmmmmmm why is this in the football forum? Isn't there a better place on the board for this to be discussed? This really has nothing to do with football in any shape or form other than some football players were involved. 

[DAG 33,955]

2 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

Some people are being a little too critical, so I was doing what I could to prevent it from getting to the next level.  More precautionary steps than anything, especially considering this is a very sensitive subject.

That’s fair but I think it’s less to do with Bible Belt thinking and more to do with the idea of ppl being forced and feeling force to do this. To me Bible Belt thinking is calling someone a pagan for even speaking out against Christianity. I have seen very little, if any of that on this thread. No, I am not a Bible Belt guy.

[RunInRed 16,360]

6 minutes ago, GwillMac6 said:

SO ummmmmmmm why is this in the football forum? Isn't there a better place on the board for this to be discussed? This really has nothing to do with football in any shape or form other than some football players were involved. 

I actually think it’s quite appropriately placed - religious entanglement with the program has always been part of the seedy under belly that is Auburn Athletics.