Baptisms at the Athletics Complex

[TitanTiger 20,469]

1 minute ago, RunInRed said:

I actually think it’s quite appropriately placed - religious entanglement with the program has always been part of the seedy under belly that is Auburn Athletics.

"Seedy underbelly?"  WTH?

[Barnacle 9,064]

1 minute ago, RunInRed said:

I actually think it’s quite appropriately placed - religious entanglement with the program has always been part of the seedy under belly that is Auburn Athletics.

Well that took a turn

[RunInRed 16,360]

On 3/22/2018 at 3:24 PM, TitanTiger said:

Is there any evidence whatsoever of these students being coerced into conversions or baptisms?  Any rumor or suggestion that any engagement with Chette Williams on topics religious is imposed on the players?  In all the years of Auburn athletics with things like this going on, have you even heard rumor of such a thing that would suggest a player who got baptized in the athletic department pool would have decided not to be baptized at a church in the area or a lake or river nearby instead if they'd scheduled it there?  

It was likely done for convenience and because the player wished to be baptized as soon as possible rather than wait.  There's no reason to think otherwise.

Coerced is a pretty strong word.  But it’s pretty easy to argue a top-down culture has been established, at a public university, which has created an environment that emphasizes a particular religion.

Hypothetically, if all else was equal, except the religion was Islam, running publicly rampant (and seemingly endorsed/supported at the higher levels) inside the program, instead of Christianity, would you be OK with that?

[AU-24 3,063]

56 minutes ago, Proud Tiger said:

I'm glad Red started this thread. It has made my day to see so many of my Auburn brothers openly express and defend their faith.

I agree; the Lord does work in mysterious ways!

[TitanTiger 20,469]

1 minute ago, RunInRed said:

Coerced is a pretty strong word.  But it’s pretty easy to argue a top-down culture has been even established established, at a public university which has created an environment that emphasizes a particular religion.

Hypothetically, if all else was equal, except the religion was Islam running rampant inside the program, instead of Christianity, would you be OK with that?

Again, in all the years of Chette's involvement, have you even heard a hint of any player who has complained after he left Auburn and had nothing to fear regarding his standing with coaches and playing time that he felt pressured on religion and getting involved with Chette in any way?

[RunInRed 16,360]

2 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

Again, in all the years of Chette's involvement, have you even heard a hint of any player who has complained after he left Auburn and had nothing to fear regarding his standing with coaches and playing time that he felt pressured on religion and getting involved with Chette in any way?

See, now you’re getting back to the seedy underbelly.

[abw0004 10,104]

15 minutes ago, DAG said:

That’s fair but I think it’s less to do with Bible Belt thinking and more to do with the idea of ppl being forced and feeling force to do this. To me Bible Belt thinking is calling someone a pagan for even speaking out against Christianity. I have seen very little, if any of that on this thread. No, I am not a Bible Belt guy.

My thinking with the Bible Belt comment is since the vast majority of the people are Christian, the comments are naturally skewed one way.  Just like if this were a political thread, the comments would be more skewed to red thinking than if this were a Cal football forum, where California is a blue state.  That the comments would be different in a much more diverse state, like New York, for example.  The commenters reactions would be different up there.

Either way, the mods need to keep a close eye on this thread as it is a hair-trigger, meaning this can get nasty really quick.

[RunInRed 16,360]

And btw you and others won’t say it but the answer to the above is no, no you wouldn’t be OK with Islam as a dominant religion within the program bc it isn’t *your* religion.

[TitanTiger 20,469]

Just now, RunInRed said:

See, now you’re getting back to the seedy underbelly.

First, no I'm not.  You're insinuating something you have yet to offer a scintilla of proof about.

Second, what is up with this "seedy underbelly" talk.  Do you understand what "seedy" means?

sordid and disreputable.
"his seedy affair with a soft-porn starlet"

synonyms:  sordid, disreputable, seamy, sleazy, squalid, unwholesome, unsavory
"the seedy world of prostitution"

Please demonstrate in what manner Chette Williams or his involvement with Auburn would be considered "seedy."

[TitanTiger 20,469]

Just now, RunInRed said:

And btw you and others won’t say it but the answer to the above is no, no you wouldn’t be OK with Islam as a dominant religion within the program bc it isn’t *your* religion.

I've already said that I wouldn't mind if Jewish or Muslim players wanted to use athletics facilities in the same manner as the baptisms are being used above, so slow your roll on what we'd be ok with.

In addition, if Islam were the dominant religion in the program I wouldn't like it, but it would be because they got to use athletics facilities.  And I wouldn't be demanding that they no longer be allowed to so long as there was similarly no evidence of coercion.  I'd assume if it was that dominant, it was because that's what the players themselves have chosen.

[Mikey 16,545]

1 hour ago, ClaytonAU said:

Hey there, (ministry school student here) just had a conversation with one of my professors about this exact instance. She thinks that the only issue is if athletes who don’t practice Christianity might feel excluded. While Christianity was built on spreading the gospel to everyone, I don’t think we should force it down anyone’s throat. 

Ok, let me say right off the top that I am not a religious person. Personally, I wouldn't care about this specific case one way or the other. However, there have been times over the past several years when I have wondered what I would do if I were a highly recruited high school athlete.  Would I fit in on the Auburn football team? As much as I love Auburn University, I'd have to take several second looks and evaluate the situation up-close and personal before I signed with Auburn. Not sure I'd be comfortable in an environment where religion is such a big part of everyday happenings.

[AU-24 3,063]

9 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

Again, in all the years of Chette's involvement, have you even heard a hint of any player who has complained after he left Auburn and had nothing to fear regarding his standing with coaches and playing time that he felt pressured on religion and getting involved with Chette in any way?

Nope!

[AU-24 3,063]

7 minutes ago, RunInRed said:

And btw you and others won’t say it but the answer to the above is no, no you wouldn’t be OK with Islam as a dominant religion within the program bc it isn’t *your* religion.

How tolerant, of views you disagree with, do you feel you sound on this thread?

[TitanTiger 20,469]

2 hours ago, ClaytonAU said:

Hey there, (ministry school student here) just had a conversation with one of my professors about this exact instance. She thinks that the only issue is if athletes who don’t practice Christianity might feel excluded. While Christianity was built on spreading the gospel to everyone, I don’t think we should force it down anyone’s throat. 

Of course, players might feel excluded over all sorts of things that have nothing to do with religion.  And there's zero evidence that anything is being forced down anyone's throat.  Some players openly speak of the parties they go to and all the women they've slept with.  Some players speak openly of music and other interests they are passionate about.  Some speak openly of political or social beliefs.  Any of these things might attract some and repel others or make them feel left out.  Some players speak openly about their faith and what it means to them.  There's no reason to treat religion as if it's some third rail that no one can be open about or show expressions of it in the presence of others.

[DAG 33,955]

9 minutes ago, Mikey said:

Ok, let me say right off the top that I am not a religious person. Personally, I wouldn't care about this specific case one way or the other. However, there have been times over the past several years when I have wondered what I would do if I were a highly recruited high school athlete.  Would I fit in on the Auburn football team? As much as I love Auburn University, I'd have to take several second looks and evaluate the situation up-close and personal before I signed with Auburn. Not sure I'd be comfortable in an environment where religion is such a big part of everyday happenings.

It depends on your end goal. I am sure their are quite a bit of star athletes who go to ND with very little of a Catholic background. To each their own I guess. With that being said, I don’t think Auburn university is as Christian centric as you are making it. I do think prominent people have spoke about their faith openly in the student body, but the student body as a whole? I can’t say that. Of course being in the south has a very strong religious base so there is that. Same thing with living in the north. I currently live in Wisconsin. The religion affair is nowhere near as centric up here. In fact it is the opposite, but as a Christian guy, I don’t feel any discomfort being a part of the Madison culture. Very open minded people who still disagree, which is okay . Like I said , to each their own.

[RunInRed 16,360]

8 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

First, no I'm not.  You're insinuating something you have yet to offer a scintilla of proof about.

Second, what is up with this "seedy underbelly" talk.  Do you understand what "seedy" means?

sordid and disreputable.
"his seedy affair with a soft-porn starlet"

synonyms:  sordid, disreputable, seamy, sleazy, squalid, unwholesome, unsavory
"the seedy world of prostitution"

Please demonstrate in what manner Chette Williams or his involvement with Auburn would be considered "seedy."

Surprised at the blank stare, the sketchiness of Chette has been long documented

https://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/03/sports/ncaafootball/auburn-trustee-boosts-everyone-including-the-chaplain.html

[TitanTiger 20,469]

3 minutes ago, RunInRed said:

Surprised at the blank stare, the sketchiness of Chette has been long documented

https://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/03/sports/ncaafootball/auburn-trustee-boosts-everyone-including-the-chaplain.html

The blank stare is because your insinuations aren’t any better than those of the NYT in that ridiculous story, which I deservedly scoffed at 13 years ago. If he actually did something wrong or unseemly, name it. 

[ClaytonAU 4,606]

I’m very much appreciating this discussion. It’s important as religious or non-religious people to be open to diffeent points of view. Glad no one is biting each other’s heads off about it. 

[abw0004 10,104]

17 minutes ago, RunInRed said:

And btw you and others won’t say it but the answer to the above is no, no you wouldn’t be OK with Islam as a dominant religion within the program bc it isn’t *your* religion.

I am not trying to get into a argument, but true Christians would not have an issue with this.  The main premise of Christianity is to love everyone and be accepting.  Like I said in one of my posts, it is hypocritical for Christians to judge others and criticize them for their actions, and then go to God and ask not to be judged themselves.  So I would have no issue.  But, with any religion not everyone interprets things how they should, like ISIS distorting the Islamic faith.  Again, not trying to argue.  Just wanted to clarify how Christians should react if what you said were the case.

[triangletiger 1,599]

33 minutes ago, RunInRed said:

I actually think it’s quite appropriately placed - religious entanglement with the program has always been part of the seedy under belly that is Auburn Athletics.

Seedy underbelly?

[aujeff11 6,243]

3 minutes ago, RunInRed said:

Coerced is a pretty strong word.  But it’s pretty easy to argue a top-down culture has been even established established, at a public university which has created an environment that emphasizes a particular religion.

 

This is true. When I was in college, not one professor ever professed to be a creationist and many actually mocked Christianity from their official capacities. I understand the level of coerced influence that you’re talking about. 

5 minutes ago, RunInRed said:

I actually think it’s quite appropriately placed - religious entanglement with the program has always been part of the seedy under belly that is Auburn Athletics.

“Faith and football” goes hand in hand in the south don’t you think?

Here is a nice Philadelphia Eagles shot of a player getting baptized before their game against Carolina just a couple hours later. 

[RunInRed 16,360]

Look, I'm not suggesting "pray for play," I'm just saying despite the charade of "voluntary," it's pretty clear to see what's happening.  And if If I'm a non-Christian athlete, it's extremely unlikely I'm going to Auburn. 

Further, Athletics, as often the most visible face of Auburn, is doing a really poor job of representing the diverse, inclusive environment the University claims to want to profess.

Bottom line, Auburn is tone deaf to the world beyond their own noses.  AU wears Christianity on it's sleeve.  Which is fine, I get it.  But don't try to sweep under the rug what's happening - just call it what it is.  That's all.

[Mikey 16,545]

11 minutes ago, DAG said:

It depends on your end goal. I am sure their are quite a bit of star athletes who go to ND with very little of a Catholic background. To each their own I guess. With that being said, I don’t think Auburn university is as Christian centric as you are making it. I do think prominent people have spoke about their faith openly in the student body, but the student body as a whole? I can’t say that. Of course being in the south has a very strong religious base so there is that. Same thing with living in the north. I currently live in Wisconsin. The religion affair is nowhere near as centric up here. In fact it is the opposite, but as a Christian guy, I don’t feel any discomfort being a part of the Madison culture. Very open minded people who still disagree, which is okay . Like I said , to each their own.

I'm not saying I'd rule Auburn out. However, the religious orientation of the athletic teams is a factor which I would have to seriously evaluate. While not a deal breaker, it wouldn't be a plus in AU's favor.

[TitanTiger 20,469]

You assume much, yet prove so very little.

[RunInRed 16,360]

Just now, TitanTiger said:

You assume much, yet prove so very little.

The burden of proof is not on the side who is passively watching what is happening.